Fm 10: Show Element Descriptive Tags

[Yves Barbion]

Fm 10 > Element Catalog Display Options: what is the option "Show Element
Descriptive Tags" supposed to do?

It's not explained in the Fm 10 Help (or I am unable to find it, but that
applies to almost anything I search for in this "Help").

Thanks



-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu
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Re: PowerPoint to Framemaker

[Alan Litchfield]

Or export from Powerpoint as rtf.

Alan

On 8/10/2011, at 1:33 PM, Rick Quatro wrote:

> Hi Gillian,
>  
> If you don’t need to edit the slides in FrameMaker, you could save them as 
> PDF and import the PDF into your FrameMaker document.
>  
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing Inc.
> 585-659-8267
> r...@frameexpert.com
>  
>  
>  
> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Flato, Gillian
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 8:02 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: PowerPoint to Framemaker
>  
> Anyone know a utility for converting PowerPoint slides with lots of graphics 
> to FrameMaker, or something that can be imported into Frame?
>  
> Thank you,
>  
>  
> Gillian Flato
> Senior Technical Writer (Software)
> nanometrics
> 1550 Buckeye Dr.
> Milpitas, CA. 95035
> (408.545.6316
> 7  408.232.5911
> * gfl...@nanometrics.com
>  
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as a...@alphabyte.co.nz.
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> 
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-- 
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AlphaByte
PO Box 1941, Auckland
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice



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PowerPoint to Framemaker

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Gillian,



If you don't need to edit the slides in FrameMaker, you could save them as
PDF and import the PDF into your FrameMaker document.



Rick Quatro

Carmen Publishing Inc.

585-659-8267

rick at frameexpert.com







From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Flato, Gillian
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 8:02 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: PowerPoint to Framemaker



Anyone know a utility for converting PowerPoint slides with lots of graphics
to FrameMaker, or something that can be imported into Frame?



Thank you,





Gillian Flato

Senior Technical Writer (Software)

nanometrics

1550 Buckeye Dr. 

Milpitas, CA. 95035

(408.545.6316

7  408.232.5911

*  <mailto:gflato at nanometrics.com> gflato at nanometrics.com



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Coaching engineers

[Ragnar Hanås]

Please, can you keep this discussion off the list? Many of us who appreciate 
this list are neither technical writers nor engineers.

Thanks,

Ragnar Hanas, MD, PhD

Uddevalla Hospital

Sweden





From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of a...@ant-davey.com
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 10:43 AM
To: Ron Tillotson; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Coaching engineers



Have to agree absolutely.  As a potential consultant recently pointed out, 
engineers (indeed scientists in general) haven't studied how to use language as 
a form of communication since the days of their 'O'-levels or GCSEs (Grade 9 to 
my American friends). 



Ant Davey  






On 06 October 2011 at 18:25 Ron Tillotson  wrote: 

> In the role of a technical writing consultant, contracted to coach or 
> facilitate a learning process to give 
> engineers the opportunity to improve specific writing skills, can be very 
> effective. 
> 
> Ron Tillotson 
> 
> Technical Writer 
> 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. 
> 
> 
> 

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RE: PowerPoint to Framemaker

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Gillian,

 

If you don't need to edit the slides in FrameMaker, you could save them as
PDF and import the PDF into your FrameMaker document.

 

Rick Quatro

Carmen Publishing Inc.

585-659-8267

r...@frameexpert.com

 

 

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Flato, Gillian
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 8:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: PowerPoint to Framemaker

 

Anyone know a utility for converting PowerPoint slides with lots of graphics
to FrameMaker, or something that can be imported into Frame?

 

Thank you,

 

 

Gillian Flato

Senior Technical Writer (Software)

nanometrics

1550 Buckeye Dr. 

Milpitas, CA. 95035

(408.545.6316

7  408.232.5911

*   gfl...@nanometrics.com

 

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PowerPoint to Framemaker

[Flato, Gillian]

Anyone know a utility for converting PowerPoint slides with lots of graphics to 
FrameMaker, or something that can be imported into Frame?

Thank you,


Gillian Flato
Senior Technical Writer (Software)
nanometrics
1550 Buckeye Dr.
Milpitas, CA. 95035
*408.545.6316
7  408.232.5911
* gfl...@nanometrics.com

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PowerPoint to Framemaker

[Flato, Gillian]

Anyone know a utility for converting PowerPoint slides with lots of graphics to 
FrameMaker, or something that can be imported into Frame?

Thank you,


Gillian Flato
Senior Technical Writer (Software)
nanometrics
1550 Buckeye Dr.
Milpitas, CA. 95035
*408.545.6316
7  408.232.5911
* gflato at nanometrics.com<mailto:gflato at nanometrics.com>

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OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Bill Swallow]

> That's why so many of us get the interview question, "How do you deal with a
> difficult engineer?"

I absolutely loathe that question. Not that it's difficult to answer,
but it just sets the wrong tone for the company asking it.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Lynn Gold]

That's why I always stick up for the so-called "difficult" engineer when I 
answer the question.  Some folks intentionally ask things in a 
confrontational way to see how you react.

Since I was a programmer and sysadmin back when dinosaurs roamed the 
earth, I know what it's like to be the person the writers go to for 
information.

--Lynn



From:   Bill Swallow 
To: Lynn Gold/Santa Clara/Contr/IBM at IBMUS
Cc: "framers at lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   10/07/2011 11:27 AM
Subject:Re: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad



> That's why so many of us get the interview question, "How do you deal 
with a
> difficult engineer?"

I absolutely loathe that question. Not that it's difficult to answer,
but it just sets the wrong tone for the company asking it.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

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Scary responsibility in job ad

[Milan Davidović]

Have you written on this one in more detail anywhere (e.g. blog,
newsletter)? Or do you know of a more extensive account on something
similar by someone else?

-- 
Milan Davidovi?
http://twitter.com/altmilan
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/milandavidovic


On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Mollye Barrett  wrote:
> OK, can we agree that if we didn't want the responsibility we would not
> apply for the job?
> If we did want the responsibility, how would we meet the challenge?
> I worked with a group of 50 engineers and 8 automotive technicians. I was
> tasked with improving the content provided by engineers. This required
> establishing relationships and and processes. To be sure, some engineers
> were more willing than others. I created standards, provided examples and
> worked with people one-on-one. The?automotive ?technicians all became
> technical writers with their own area of automotive speciality.Years later,
> they are all employed as technicians who write for auto manufacturers. Some
> engineers improved greatly, some not at all.?My performance reviews always
> included a recognition of the improvements or how I would handle the
> challenge. I was responsible for tracking individual improvements and shared
> the progress with my supervisor. He developed a role for me as the
> documentation approver. I could reject poor content if I made solid
> recommendations for improvement.
> This position was one of the best I've ever had and I learned a ton.
> Did every engineer become a stellar technical writer? No.
> Did most improve their writing? Yes.
> Did the overall technical documentation improve? Based on usability scores
> and user feedback, absolutely.
> Call me Silly, but it would have been my loss if I had dismissed the
> position because I thought it was hopeless. We make our won choices.
>
> Mollye Barrett
> ClearPath, LLC
> 414-331-1378? |?mollye at clearpath.cc? | ?www.clearpath.cc
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mollyebarrett?|?http://www.twitter.com/mollye
> Skype: mollyebarrett
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Writer  wrote:
>>
>> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
>> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
>> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who
>> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
>> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
>> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they are
>> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
>> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
>> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it
>> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
>> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
>> Nadine
>>
>> 
>> From: "Combs, Richard" 
>> To: Writer ; framers > lists.frameusers.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 6:52:17 PM
>> Subject: RE: Scary responsibility in job ad
>>
>> Writer wrote:
>>
>> > A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
>> > for a technical writer:
>> >
>> > "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
>> >
>> > It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>>
>> I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad.
>> Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without
>> seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this
>> specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my
>> future, or get defensive about my profession.
>>
>> I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions
>> fairly frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did the
>> occasional short presentation on some language/writing issue at the end of a
>> team meeting. These were well received, and I often got follow-up questions.
>>
>> The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of
>> communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in order to
>> communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and other
>> departments (sales, support, etc.), as well as with me.
>>
>> IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it
>> makes me more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing.
>>
>>
>> Richard G. Combs
>> Senior Technical Writer
>> Polycom, Inc.
>> richard.combs at polycom.com
>> 303-223-5111
>> --
>> rgcombs at gmail.com
>> 303-903-6372
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as mollye at clearpath.cc.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>
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>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/opti

Vector symbols for warning, caution, note, etc.

[Alan Litchfield]

Do you mean vector as in scalable eps/pdf?

FrameMaker 5* used to have a whole library of them.

Alan

On 7/10/2011, at 12:57 AM, Rick Quatro wrote:

> Forgive me if this has been answered previously, but I am looking for some
> vector symbols for warning, caution, note, etc. Any pointers would be
> appreciated. Thank you very much.
> 

-- 
Alan Litchfield MBus (Hons), MNZCS
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941, Auckland
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice

Scary responsibility in job ad

[Mollye Barrett]

gt;> Writer wrote:
> >>
> >> > A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
> >> > for a technical writer:
> >> >
> >> > "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
> >> >
> >> > It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
> >>
> >> I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad.
> >> Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without
> >> seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but
> this
> >> specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear
> for my
> >> future, or get defensive about my profession.
> >>
> >> I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions
> >> fairly frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did
> the
> >> occasional short presentation on some language/writing issue at the end
> of a
> >> team meeting. These were well received, and I often got follow-up
> questions.
> >>
> >> The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of
> >> communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in
> order to
> >> communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and other
> >> departments (sales, support, etc.), as well as with me.
> >>
> >> IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it
> >> makes me more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing.
> >>
> >>
> >> Richard G. Combs
> >> Senior Technical Writer
> >> Polycom, Inc.
> >> richard.combs at polycom.com
> >> 303-223-5111
> >> --
> >> rgcombs at gmail.com
> >> 303-903-6372
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >>
> >>
> >> You are currently subscribed to framers as mollye at clearpath.cc.
> >>
> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> >> or visit
> >>
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mollye%40clearpath.cc
> >>
> >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Bill Swallow]

> That's why so many of us get the interview question, "How do you deal with a
> difficult engineer?"

I absolutely loathe that question. Not that it's difficult to answer,
but it just sets the wrong tone for the company asking it.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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Re: Coaching engineers

[a...@ant-davey.com]

Have to agree absolutely.  As a potential consultant recently pointed out,
engineers (indeed scientists in general) haven't studied how to use language as
a form of communication since the days of their 'O'-levels or GCSEs (Grade 9 to
my American friends).
 
Ant Davey 
 
 


On 06 October 2011 at 18:25 Ron Tillotson  wrote:

> In the role of a technical writing consultant, contracted to coach or
> facilitate a learning process to give
> engineers the opportunity to improve specific writing skills, can be very
> effective.
>
> Ron Tillotson
>
> Technical Writer
>
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
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Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[hessiansx4]

I tend to agree with Richard, although I can see Nadine's point. 

I'm sure it can be frustrating to feel that you are tasked with "helping" 
someone (who is making way more money than you are) with basic language skills.

On the other hand, "we" are all in this together. Products are 
designed/created/ tested/documented/marketed/maintained by a TEAM. I was once 
tasked with negotiating training costs for a very expensive application simply 
because I was a native English speaker. I could have said "not my job", but 
didn't. And it turned out to be a great learning experience; I had the 
opportunity to work with some folks I might otherwise not have had the chance 
to. (And I found out I was a decent negotiator!)


From: "Combs, Richard" 
To: Writer ; framers 
Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 6:52 AM
Subject: RE: Scary responsibility in job ad

Writer wrote:

> A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
> for a technical writer:
> 
> "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
> 
> It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.

I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad. 
Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without seeing 
what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this specific 
responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my future, or 
get defensive about my profession. 

I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions fairly 
frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did the occasional 
short presentation on some language/writing issue at the end of a team meeting. 
These were well received, and I often got follow-up questions. 

The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of 
communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in order to 
communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and other departments 
(sales, support, etc.), as well as with me. 

IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it makes me 
more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richard.co...@polycom.com
303-223-5111
--
rgco...@gmail.com
303-903-6372
--






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RE: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Tim Pann]

Tends to make me feel pretty good too, as a Senior Trainer/Technical
Writer with a degree in Engineering... :)

Tim

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Combs,
Richard
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 3:52 PM
To: Writer; framers
Subject: RE: Scary responsibility in job ad

Writer wrote:
 
> A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
> for a technical writer:
> 
> "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
> 
> It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.

I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad.
Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without
seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but
this specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe,
fear for my future, or get defensive about my profession. 

I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions
fairly frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did
the occasional short presentation on some language/writing issue at the
end of a team meeting. These were well received, and I often got
follow-up questions. 

The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of
communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in
order to communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and
other departments (sales, support, etc.), as well as with me. 

IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it
makes me more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richard.co...@polycom.com
303-223-5111
--
rgco...@gmail.com
303-903-6372
--




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Re: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Lynn Gold]

That's why so many of us get the interview question, "How do you deal with 
a difficult engineer?"



From:   Chris Despopoulos 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   10/06/2011 11:03 AM
Subject:Re: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad
Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com



The post was:
A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad for 
a technical writer:

"coach engineers to improve their writing skills"

It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.

My reply is:
How often do you complain that engineers don't like to give you the 
information you need.  If you said "often", I would not be surprised.
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Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Grant Hogarth]

Actually, I've done this at a number of companies, essentially 
functioning as an editor.
It makes for a nice change from spec sheets and ritualistic step 
instructions.
Honestly, I've had more trouble getting junior executives to accept 
corrections than either engineers or senior executives.


Grant

On 10/6/2011 11:06 AM, Jeff Coatsworth wrote:

Might as well ask for "supervise monkeys on typewriters"


*From:* framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] *On Behalf Of *Writer

*Sent:* Thursday, October 06, 2011 12:51 PM
*To:* framers
*Subject:* OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad 
for a technical writer:


"coach engineers to improve their writing skills"

It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.

Nadine
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Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Greg. Eckrich]

Sounds like a fine opportunity for an instructional Designer!  Have my MS-Ed, 
Instructional Design in Dec.  [Sorry, could not resist the opportunity for a 
shameless bit of self-promotion!]

Greg. Eckrich

On 6Oct2011, at 12:22 PM, Writer wrote:

> Or if the company absolutely feels that the engineers need to learn to 
> communicate better, put the onus on them, not on the tech writers. Make it a 
> part of the engineers' objectives, pay for courses, get the engineers to 
> demonstrate that their skills have improved. If they fail, then no soup for 
> them!
> 
> Nadine
> 
> From: "Eichelberger, Mark" 
> To: framers 
> Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 1:17:41 PM
> Subject: RE: Scary responsibility in job ad
> 
> I don’t think this should ever be the responsibility  of a tech writer, but 
> it does indicate why they *need* a tech writer.I say let the engineers be 
> engineers and let the tech writers be tech writers.
>  
> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 12:51 PM
> To: framers
> Subject: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad
>  
> A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad for a 
> technical writer:
>  
> "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
>  
> It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>  
> Nadine
> 
> ___
> 
> 
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Scary responsibility in job ad

[Mollye Barrett]

OK, can we agree that if we didn't want the responsibility we would not
apply for the job?
If we did want the responsibility, how would we meet the challenge?

I worked with a group of 50 engineers and 8 automotive technicians. I was
tasked with improving the content provided by engineers. This required
establishing relationships and and processes. To be sure, some engineers
were more willing than others. I created standards, provided examples and
worked with people one-on-one. The automotive  technicians all became
technical writers with their own area of automotive speciality.Years later,
they are all employed as technicians who write for auto manufacturers. Some
engineers improved greatly, some not at all. My performance reviews always
included a recognition of the improvements or how I would handle the
challenge. I was responsible for tracking individual improvements and shared
the progress with my supervisor. He developed a role for me as the
documentation approver. I could reject poor content if I made solid
recommendations for improvement.

This position was one of the best I've ever had and I learned a ton.
Did every engineer become a stellar technical writer? No.
Did most improve their writing? Yes.
Did the overall technical documentation improve? Based on usability scores
and user feedback, absolutely.

Call me Silly, but it would have been my loss if I had dismissed the
position because I thought it was hopeless. We make our won choices.


Mollye Barrett
ClearPath, LLC
414-331-1378  | mollye at clearpath.cc  |  www.clearpath.cc
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mollyebarrett | http://www.twitter.com/mollye
Skype: mollyebarrett

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Writer  wrote:

> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who
> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they are
> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
>
> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it
> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
>
> Nadine
>
> --
> *From:* "Combs, Richard" 
> *To:* Writer ; framers  lists.frameusers.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2011 6:52:17 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Scary responsibility in job ad
>
> Writer wrote:
>
> > A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
> > for a technical writer:
> >
> > "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
> >
> > It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>
> I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad.
> Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without
> seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this
> specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my
> future, or get defensive about my profession.
>
> I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions
> fairly frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did the
> occasional short presentation on some language/writing issue at the end of a
> team meeting. These were well received, and I often got follow-up questions.
>
>
> The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of
> communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in order to
> communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and other
> departments (sales, support, etc.), as well as with me.
>
> IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it
> makes me more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing.
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richard.combs at polycom.com
> 303-223-5111
> --
> rgcombs at gmail.com
> 303-903-6372
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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Scary responsibility in job ad

[Bill Swallow]

There's always beer involved. ;) But no, this was a full-on
collaboration that I initiated with the engineering VP and the product
architect. It took some convincing, but a few flow charts later and we
were good to go. You have to cover all bases and have a contingency
for everyone on all sides should something slip (and outline
consequences). But it's nothing that isn't possible to plan for, and
is exactly the type of work anyone in any kind of project
management/leadership role should be doing anyway.

But beer... there were a couple of fellow homebrewers on the
engineering side whom I knew, and a bunch of cooking nuts/foodies as
well. So there was rapport there from the beginning with quite a few
folks. I would get hops from one guy and return to him beer made with
them. Another team member (a writer) kept bees, and I'd return to him
beer made with the honey. But that was all really aside from the main
push. I had little rapport initially (in fact, some tension) with the
product architect going into it, but through planning and negotiation
we were able to work things out. We were never buddies, but we ironed
out the wrinkles in our working relationship. Of course, the entire
project team (locals, anyway) would meet up every 2 weeks for an
after-work pressure venting session at a local bar. Working 70-90
hours a week takes its toll (company tweaked its work from home policy
and even paid for our home broadband), and it was nice to have that
kind of break in a relaxed environment. Beer, wings, billiards, darts,
and even karaoke. All good.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Jeff Coatsworth
 wrote:
> Ooooh! They won't fall for your Jedi mind-tricks! I bet there's beer involved 
> in this somewhere, right Bill?


-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

Re: framers Digest, Vol 72, Issue 5

[Cal Callahan]

Ha, ha! As if they would listen! "Coerce" might work, given the authority.

cal

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 10:00 AM, wrote:

> Send framers mailing list submissions to
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> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of framers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: screwy x-ref formatting (Grant Hogarth)
>   2. How to search archive (Anton David)
>   3. Re: How to search archive (Shmuel Wolfson)
>   4. Vector symbols for warning, caution, note, etc. (Rick Quatro)
>   5. R: How to search archive (Anton David)
>   6. Table templates (FrameMaker 10) (Steve Rickaby)
>   7. RE: Table templates (FrameMaker 10) (Rick Quatro)
>   8. FrameMaker menu bar issue (George, Brenda (CAI))
>   9. Re: FrameMaker menu bar issue (Baruch Brodersen)
>  10. Re: FrameMaker menu bar issue (Scott Prentice)
>  11. OT: Scary responsibility in job ad (Writer)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:56:55 -0600
> From: Grant Hogarth 
> To: "Carol J. Elkins" 
> Cc: Frame Users 
> Subject: Re: screwy x-ref formatting
> Message-ID: <4e8c9a67.3080...@hedgewizard.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> All I can think of is that you are missing a "" (or "<
> \>") at the end of the reference string.
>
> Grant
>
> On 10/4/2011 8:44 PM, Carol J. Elkins wrote:
> > I haven't seen a response to this, so I wanted to comment that I have
> > this happen in one particular book as well. But unlike John's
> > experience where his entire xref turns blue, every time I regenerate,
> > I lose the blue character formatting in some, but not all, of the
> > xrefs. But when I close down the book and reopen it, all the xrefs are
> > correctly formatted once again. A sample xref format would be
> > Figure\ <$paranumonly> on\ page\ <$chapnum>?<$pagenum>
> >
> > I can't narrow the problem down to any specific xref format, and I
> > confess that because reopening the book solves the problem, I haven't
> > really pursued a fix. My system has 8 GB of RAM, so resources
> > shouldn't be a problem. Very frustrating. It would be great if anyone
> > can shed some light on this. I'm using Frame9 on Win7, fully patched.
> >
> > Carol
> >
> > At 11:00 AM 9/30/2011, you wrote:
> >> I have a simple x-ref that works fine in 7 books and screwy in an
> >> eight book.
> >> <$paratext> on page <$pagenum>
> >> usually produces the desired blue text for the title and plain text
> >> for the page number, but in the errant book the entire x-ref is blue.
> >> When I update the x-ref, it behaves properly. But when I update all
> >> x-refs in the book, it reverts to the all-blue look.
> >
> > ___
> >
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to framers as gr...@hedgewizard.net.
> >
> > Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
> >
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>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:36:10 +0200
> From: "Anton David" 
> To: 
> Subject: How to search archive
> Message-ID: <001d01cc83fa$9ea07400$0600a8c0@anton>
> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dears framers,
>
>
> I would like to know how you do to search the archive.
> As far as I see, you have to open each single month thread to do a search.
> Is there a way you can do a search on all archive contents?
>
> I have the feeling we are not leveraging the information the best way and
> many times same questions might be repeated.
>
> Wish you a pleasant day
>
> Anton
> Localization area
> Xlated.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:58:08 +0200
> From: Shmuel Wolfson 
> To: Anton David 
> Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: How to search archive
> Message-ID: <4e8d6da0.8050...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/attachments/20111006/df0ead92/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 07:57:19 -0400
> From: "Rick Quatro" 
> To: 
> Subject: Vector symbols for warning, caution, note, etc.
> Message-ID: <001c01cc841f$1a8d9240$4fa8b6c0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;   chars

Scary responsibility in job ad

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Ooooh! They won't fall for your Jedi mind-tricks! I bet there's beer involved 
in this somewhere, right Bill? 

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Swallow
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 10:15 AM
To: Writer
Cc: framers
Subject: Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

Don't you see that this is a mirror argument? Let me rephrase what
you're saying:

> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the engineer, 
> rather than where it belongs...on the writer. I've worked with very few 
> writers who wanted to improve their involvement in product development or who 
> even cared. Most writers I've worked with just want to do what they are told 
> to do; they don't want to get into the nuts and bolts. IMHO, this requirement 
> is setting we engineers up for failure. Just because the company wants the us 
> to communicate more effectively, it doesn't mean that the writers want to, 
> are motivated to, or would willingly cooperate with such "coaching". <

Don't look at it as a burden, but an opportunity to collaborate.  Yes,
engineers work very differently from writers, but a writer's honed
skills at audience analysis can certainly be reverse-engineered to
look at author-analysis, see what their workflow and workloads are
like, and work WITH them to develop means for improvement.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Writer  wrote:
> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who
> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they are
> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it
> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
> Nadine

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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framers Digest, Vol 72, Issue 5

[Cal Callahan]

; > forwarding this email to notify at federatedinv.com
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> > B a r u c h   B r o d e r s e n
> > T e c h n i t e x t   D o c u m e n t a t i o n
> > 5 0 3 8 5 3 5 0 0 6
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>
> --
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Writer 
> To: framers 
> Subject: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad
> Message-ID: <1317919876.8119.YahooMailNeo at web88609.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad for
> a technical writer:
>
> "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
>
> It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>
> Nadine
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Scary responsibility in job ad

[Bill Swallow]

Don't you see that this is a mirror argument? Let me rephrase what
you're saying:

> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the engineer, 
> rather than where it belongs...on the writer. I've worked with very few 
> writers who wanted to improve their involvement in product development or who 
> even cared. Most writers I've worked with just want to do what they are told 
> to do; they don't want to get into the nuts and bolts. IMHO, this requirement 
> is setting we engineers up for failure. Just because the company wants the us 
> to communicate more effectively, it doesn't mean that the writers want to, 
> are motivated to, or would willingly cooperate with such "coaching". <

Don't look at it as a burden, but an opportunity to collaborate.  Yes,
engineers work very differently from writers, but a writer's honed
skills at audience analysis can certainly be reverse-engineered to
look at author-analysis, see what their workflow and workloads are
like, and work WITH them to develop means for improvement.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Writer  wrote:
> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who
> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they are
> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it
> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
> Nadine

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

Scary responsibility in job ad

[Bill Swallow]

Agreed. I did this in a former role. We had a huge API/SDK that
required documentation. It would have taken 20 tech writers to meet
the target release date, as there were 40 engineers working non-stop
on it world-wide. So instead we added to the definition of "code
complete" a documentation item. Every class, method, property, etc.
needed to have documentation in the code for it. Upon check-in, both
QA and Docs would unleash hell on it to make sure it worked and the
element was well-documened.

Along with the code complete change, we also wrote up specific
instructions to feed the specs on exactly how things should be
documented. In the beginning we had some gems come by as
documentation. My favorite was "Microsoft made me do it." But with
some coaching and explanation, we soon had all engineers writing
pretty darn good documentation for the SDK/API. In fact, many caught
on to the point of it and loved documenting their code.

Best quote from an engineer: "This is great! I get to explain how what
I create applies to the whole of the product, and I can help
developers using this code to create some great application features!"
Yes, young padowan, that is the point. :)

The process was heavy on overhead at the beginning, but any new
process is as you ramp up. Many hours were spent in the first month
reviewing code docs, editing or punting back to the engineers, and
coaching them on what to write. But as the project went on, both the
writers and the engineers learned what to expect from each other (as a
group and individually), and we soon learned whose docs to pretty much
trust out of the gate and whose to pay special attention to.

The project was a success, as we documented over 12,000 elements
inside of 4 months, in addition to guides and such. We even
implemented the whole thing (guides, code reference and all) as a
complete context-sensitive Help system within Visual Studio (F1 on an
element to learn how to use it and see what works with it).

So yeah, not a scary or funny item to list in a job description. It's
actually very pertinent and applicable in many situations.

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Combs, Richard
 wrote:
> Writer wrote:
>
>> A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
>> for a technical writer:
>>
>> "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
>>
>> It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>
> I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad. 
> Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without 
> seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this 
> specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my 
> future, or get defensive about my profession.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood

Coaching engineers

[a...@ant-davey.com]

Have to agree absolutely.? As a potential consultant recently pointed out,
engineers (indeed scientists in general) haven't studied how to use language as
a form of communication since the days of their 'O'-levels or GCSEs (Grade 9 to
my American friends).
?
Ant Davey?
?
?


On 06 October 2011 at 18:25 Ron Tillotson  wrote:

> In the role of a technical writing consultant, contracted to coach or
> facilitate a learning process to give
> engineers the opportunity to improve specific writing skills, can be very
> effective.
>
> Ron Tillotson
>
> Technical Writer
>
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
-- next part --
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Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Mollye Barrett]

Milan,

I have not written about this experience but I certainly will. I held the
position for about five years and left the company more than 15 years ago.
Given my background at the time, it seemed ordinary...like all tech writer
were surely doing the same things.

Let me add that I documented and learned to operate engine analyzers, brake
testers, gas analyzers, emissions testing programs, torque testers, every
kind of power tool, every kind of hand tool, battery starting and charging
systems, dynamometers and many other speciality tools. I also learned to
work with CAD systems and became a passable illustrator. We were all focused
on making great products and my contribution was improving support
materials. I respected the engineers and technicians for their knowledge and
they most always demonstrated the same respect for my area of expertise. I
had a super manager, was paid well and learned something new everyday.
Degrees aside, I come from a working-class background and value the work of
every individual.

Mollye

-- 
Mollye Barrett | ClearPath, LLC
414-331-1378  | mol...@clearpath.cc  |  www.clearpath.cc
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mollyebarrett | http://www.twitter.com/mollye
Skype: mollyebarrett

2011/10/7 Milan Davidović 

> Have you written on this one in more detail anywhere (e.g. blog,
> newsletter)? Or do you know of a more extensive account on something
> similar by someone else?
>
> --
> Milan Davidović
> http://twitter.com/altmilan
> http://altmilan.blogspot.com
> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/milandavidovic
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Mollye Barrett 
> wrote:
> > OK, can we agree that if we didn't want the responsibility we would not
> > apply for the job?
> > If we did want the responsibility, how would we meet the challenge?
> > I worked with a group of 50 engineers and 8 automotive technicians. I was
> > tasked with improving the content provided by engineers. This required
> > establishing relationships and and processes. To be sure, some engineers
> > were more willing than others. I created standards, provided examples and
> > worked with people one-on-one. The automotive  technicians all became
> > technical writers with their own area of automotive speciality.Years
> later,
> > they are all employed as technicians who write for auto manufacturers.
> Some
> > engineers improved greatly, some not at all. My performance reviews
> always
> > included a recognition of the improvements or how I would handle the
> > challenge. I was responsible for tracking individual improvements and
> shared
> > the progress with my supervisor. He developed a role for me as the
> > documentation approver. I could reject poor content if I made solid
> > recommendations for improvement.
> > This position was one of the best I've ever had and I learned a ton.
> > Did every engineer become a stellar technical writer? No.
> > Did most improve their writing? Yes.
> > Did the overall technical documentation improve? Based on usability
> scores
> > and user feedback, absolutely.
> > Call me Silly, but it would have been my loss if I had dismissed the
> > position because I thought it was hopeless. We make our won choices.
> >
> > Mollye Barrett
> > ClearPath, LLC
> > 414-331-1378  | mol...@clearpath.cc  |  www.clearpath.cc
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/mollyebarrett | http://www.twitter.com/mollye
> > Skype: mollyebarrett
> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Writer  wrote:
> >>
> >> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
> >> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
> >> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or
> who
> >> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
> >> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
> >> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they
> are
> >> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
> >> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
> >> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively,
> it
> >> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
> >> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
> >> Nadine
> >>
> >> 
> >> From: "Combs, Richard" 
> >> To: Writer ; framers  >
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 6:52:17 PM
> >> Subject: RE: Scary responsibility in job ad
> >>
> >> Writer wrote:
> >>
> >> > A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
> >> > for a technical writer:
> >> >
> >> > "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
> >> >
> >> > It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
> >>
> >> I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad.
> >> Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without
> >> seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but
> this
> >> specific responsibilit

Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Milan Davidović]

Have you written on this one in more detail anywhere (e.g. blog,
newsletter)? Or do you know of a more extensive account on something
similar by someone else?

-- 
Milan Davidović
http://twitter.com/altmilan
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/milandavidovic


On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Mollye Barrett  wrote:
> OK, can we agree that if we didn't want the responsibility we would not
> apply for the job?
> If we did want the responsibility, how would we meet the challenge?
> I worked with a group of 50 engineers and 8 automotive technicians. I was
> tasked with improving the content provided by engineers. This required
> establishing relationships and and processes. To be sure, some engineers
> were more willing than others. I created standards, provided examples and
> worked with people one-on-one. The automotive  technicians all became
> technical writers with their own area of automotive speciality.Years later,
> they are all employed as technicians who write for auto manufacturers. Some
> engineers improved greatly, some not at all. My performance reviews always
> included a recognition of the improvements or how I would handle the
> challenge. I was responsible for tracking individual improvements and shared
> the progress with my supervisor. He developed a role for me as the
> documentation approver. I could reject poor content if I made solid
> recommendations for improvement.
> This position was one of the best I've ever had and I learned a ton.
> Did every engineer become a stellar technical writer? No.
> Did most improve their writing? Yes.
> Did the overall technical documentation improve? Based on usability scores
> and user feedback, absolutely.
> Call me Silly, but it would have been my loss if I had dismissed the
> position because I thought it was hopeless. We make our won choices.
>
> Mollye Barrett
> ClearPath, LLC
> 414-331-1378  | mol...@clearpath.cc  |  www.clearpath.cc
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mollyebarrett | http://www.twitter.com/mollye
> Skype: mollyebarrett
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Writer  wrote:
>>
>> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
>> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
>> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who
>> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
>> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
>> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they are
>> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
>> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
>> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it
>> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
>> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
>> Nadine
>>
>> 
>> From: "Combs, Richard" 
>> To: Writer ; framers 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 6:52:17 PM
>> Subject: RE: Scary responsibility in job ad
>>
>> Writer wrote:
>>
>> > A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
>> > for a technical writer:
>> >
>> > "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
>> >
>> > It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>>
>> I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad.
>> Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without
>> seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this
>> specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my
>> future, or get defensive about my profession.
>>
>> I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions
>> fairly frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did the
>> occasional short presentation on some language/writing issue at the end of a
>> team meeting. These were well received, and I often got follow-up questions.
>>
>> The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of
>> communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in order to
>> communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and other
>> departments (sales, support, etc.), as well as with me.
>>
>> IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it
>> makes me more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing.
>>
>>
>> Richard G. Combs
>> Senior Technical Writer
>> Polycom, Inc.
>> richard.co...@polycom.com
>> 303-223-5111
>> --
>> rgco...@gmail.com
>> 303-903-6372
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as mol...@clearpath.cc.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mollye%40clearpath.cc
>>
>> S

Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Mollye Barrett]

OK, can we agree that if we didn't want the responsibility we would not
apply for the job?
If we did want the responsibility, how would we meet the challenge?

I worked with a group of 50 engineers and 8 automotive technicians. I was
tasked with improving the content provided by engineers. This required
establishing relationships and and processes. To be sure, some engineers
were more willing than others. I created standards, provided examples and
worked with people one-on-one. The automotive  technicians all became
technical writers with their own area of automotive speciality.Years later,
they are all employed as technicians who write for auto manufacturers. Some
engineers improved greatly, some not at all. My performance reviews always
included a recognition of the improvements or how I would handle the
challenge. I was responsible for tracking individual improvements and shared
the progress with my supervisor. He developed a role for me as the
documentation approver. I could reject poor content if I made solid
recommendations for improvement.

This position was one of the best I've ever had and I learned a ton.
Did every engineer become a stellar technical writer? No.
Did most improve their writing? Yes.
Did the overall technical documentation improve? Based on usability scores
and user feedback, absolutely.

Call me Silly, but it would have been my loss if I had dismissed the
position because I thought it was hopeless. We make our won choices.


Mollye Barrett
ClearPath, LLC
414-331-1378  | mol...@clearpath.cc  |  www.clearpath.cc
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mollyebarrett | http://www.twitter.com/mollye
Skype: mollyebarrett

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Writer  wrote:

> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who
> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they are
> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
>
> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it
> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
>
> Nadine
>
> --
> *From:* "Combs, Richard" 
> *To:* Writer ; framers 
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2011 6:52:17 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Scary responsibility in job ad
>
> Writer wrote:
>
> > A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
> > for a technical writer:
> >
> > "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
> >
> > It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>
> I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad.
> Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without
> seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this
> specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my
> future, or get defensive about my profession.
>
> I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions
> fairly frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did the
> occasional short presentation on some language/writing issue at the end of a
> team meeting. These were well received, and I often got follow-up questions.
>
>
> The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of
> communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in order to
> communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and other
> departments (sales, support, etc.), as well as with me.
>
> IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it
> makes me more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing.
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richard.co...@polycom.com
> 303-223-5111
> --
> rgco...@gmail.com
> 303-903-6372
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as mol...@clearpath.cc.
>
> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mollye%40clearpath.cc
>
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
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Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Bill Swallow]

There's always beer involved. ;) But no, this was a full-on
collaboration that I initiated with the engineering VP and the product
architect. It took some convincing, but a few flow charts later and we
were good to go. You have to cover all bases and have a contingency
for everyone on all sides should something slip (and outline
consequences). But it's nothing that isn't possible to plan for, and
is exactly the type of work anyone in any kind of project
management/leadership role should be doing anyway.

But beer... there were a couple of fellow homebrewers on the
engineering side whom I knew, and a bunch of cooking nuts/foodies as
well. So there was rapport there from the beginning with quite a few
folks. I would get hops from one guy and return to him beer made with
them. Another team member (a writer) kept bees, and I'd return to him
beer made with the honey. But that was all really aside from the main
push. I had little rapport initially (in fact, some tension) with the
product architect going into it, but through planning and negotiation
we were able to work things out. We were never buddies, but we ironed
out the wrinkles in our working relationship. Of course, the entire
project team (locals, anyway) would meet up every 2 weeks for an
after-work pressure venting session at a local bar. Working 70-90
hours a week takes its toll (company tweaked its work from home policy
and even paid for our home broadband), and it was nice to have that
kind of break in a relaxed environment. Beer, wings, billiards, darts,
and even karaoke. All good.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Jeff Coatsworth
 wrote:
> Ooooh! They won't fall for your Jedi mind-tricks! I bet there's beer involved 
> in this somewhere, right Bill?


-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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RE: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Ooooh! They won't fall for your Jedi mind-tricks! I bet there's beer involved 
in this somewhere, right Bill? 

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Swallow
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 10:15 AM
To: Writer
Cc: framers
Subject: Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

Don't you see that this is a mirror argument? Let me rephrase what
you're saying:

> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the engineer, 
> rather than where it belongs...on the writer. I've worked with very few 
> writers who wanted to improve their involvement in product development or who 
> even cared. Most writers I've worked with just want to do what they are told 
> to do; they don't want to get into the nuts and bolts. IMHO, this requirement 
> is setting we engineers up for failure. Just because the company wants the us 
> to communicate more effectively, it doesn't mean that the writers want to, 
> are motivated to, or would willingly cooperate with such "coaching". <

Don't look at it as a burden, but an opportunity to collaborate.  Yes,
engineers work very differently from writers, but a writer's honed
skills at audience analysis can certainly be reverse-engineered to
look at author-analysis, see what their workflow and workloads are
like, and work WITH them to develop means for improvement.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Writer  wrote:
> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who
> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they are
> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it
> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
> Nadine

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Bill Swallow]

Don't you see that this is a mirror argument? Let me rephrase what
you're saying:

> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the engineer, 
> rather than where it belongs...on the writer. I've worked with very few 
> writers who wanted to improve their involvement in product development or who 
> even cared. Most writers I've worked with just want to do what they are told 
> to do; they don't want to get into the nuts and bolts. IMHO, this requirement 
> is setting we engineers up for failure. Just because the company wants the us 
> to communicate more effectively, it doesn't mean that the writers want to, 
> are motivated to, or would willingly cooperate with such "coaching". <

Don't look at it as a burden, but an opportunity to collaborate.  Yes,
engineers work very differently from writers, but a writer's honed
skills at audience analysis can certainly be reverse-engineered to
look at author-analysis, see what their workflow and workloads are
like, and work WITH them to develop means for improvement.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Writer  wrote:
> What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech
> writer, rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with
> very few engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who
> even cared. Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were
> motivated to learn, and that's great; however, your experiences do not
> reflect mine. Most engineers I've worked with just want to do what they are
> told to do; they don't want to discuss it or describe it.
> IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just
> because the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it
> doesn't mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would
> willingly cooperate with such "coaching".
> Nadine

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Bill Swallow]

Agreed. I did this in a former role. We had a huge API/SDK that
required documentation. It would have taken 20 tech writers to meet
the target release date, as there were 40 engineers working non-stop
on it world-wide. So instead we added to the definition of "code
complete" a documentation item. Every class, method, property, etc.
needed to have documentation in the code for it. Upon check-in, both
QA and Docs would unleash hell on it to make sure it worked and the
element was well-documened.

Along with the code complete change, we also wrote up specific
instructions to feed the specs on exactly how things should be
documented. In the beginning we had some gems come by as
documentation. My favorite was "Microsoft made me do it." But with
some coaching and explanation, we soon had all engineers writing
pretty darn good documentation for the SDK/API. In fact, many caught
on to the point of it and loved documenting their code.

Best quote from an engineer: "This is great! I get to explain how what
I create applies to the whole of the product, and I can help
developers using this code to create some great application features!"
Yes, young padowan, that is the point. :)

The process was heavy on overhead at the beginning, but any new
process is as you ramp up. Many hours were spent in the first month
reviewing code docs, editing or punting back to the engineers, and
coaching them on what to write. But as the project went on, both the
writers and the engineers learned what to expect from each other (as a
group and individually), and we soon learned whose docs to pretty much
trust out of the gate and whose to pay special attention to.

The project was a success, as we documented over 12,000 elements
inside of 4 months, in addition to guides and such. We even
implemented the whole thing (guides, code reference and all) as a
complete context-sensitive Help system within Visual Studio (F1 on an
element to learn how to use it and see what works with it).

So yeah, not a scary or funny item to list in a job description. It's
actually very pertinent and applicable in many situations.

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Combs, Richard
 wrote:
> Writer wrote:
>
>> A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
>> for a technical writer:
>>
>> "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
>>
>> It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>
> I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad. 
> Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without 
> seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this 
> specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my 
> future, or get defensive about my profession.

-- 
Bill Swallow

Twitter: @techcommdood
Blog: http://techcommdood.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
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Re: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Writer]

What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech writer, 
rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with very few 
engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who even cared. 
Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were motivated to learn, 
and that's great; however, your experiences do not reflect mine. Most engineers 
I've worked with just want to do what they are told to do; they don't want to 
discuss it or describe it.

IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just because 
the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it doesn't 
mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would willingly cooperate 
with such "coaching".

Nadine




>
>From: "Combs, Richard" 
>To: Writer ; framers 
>Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 6:52:17 PM
>Subject: RE: Scary responsibility in job ad
>
>Writer wrote:
>
>> A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
>> for a technical writer:
>> 
>> "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
>> 
>> It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>
>I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad. 
>Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without 
>seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this 
>specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my 
>future, or get defensive about my profession. 
>
>I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions fairly 
>frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did the occasional 
>short presentation on some language/writing issue at the end of a team 
>meeting. These were well received, and I often got follow-up questions. 
>
>The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of 
>communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in order to 
>communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and other departments 
>(sales, support, etc.), as well as with me. 
>
>IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it makes 
>me more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing. 
>
>
>Richard G. Combs
>Senior Technical Writer
>Polycom, Inc.
>richard.co...@polycom.com
>303-223-5111
>--
>rgco...@gmail.com
>303-903-6372
>--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>___


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Scary responsibility in job ad

[Writer]

What I object to is putting the burden and responsibility on the tech writer, 
rather than where it belongs...on the engineer. I've worked with very few 
engineers who wanted to improve their communication skills or who even cared. 
Richard, in your case, you were asked by people who were motivated to learn, 
and that's great; however, your experiences do not reflect mine. Most engineers 
I've worked with just want to do what they are told to do; they don't want to 
discuss it or describe it.

IMHO, this requirement is setting the tech writer up for failure. Just because 
the company wants the engineers to communicate more effectively, it doesn't 
mean that the engineers want to, are motivated to, or would willingly cooperate 
with such "coaching".

Nadine




>
>From: "Combs, Richard" 
>To: Writer ; framers 
>Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 6:52:17 PM
>Subject: RE: Scary responsibility in job ad
>
>Writer wrote:
>
>> A local company listed this as one of the responsibilities in a job ad
>> for a technical writer:
>> 
>> "coach engineers to improve their writing skills"
>> 
>> It makes me laugh and cringe in equal measures.
>
>I'm really surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction to this ad. 
>Coaching engineers is cited as just one of the responsibilities; without 
>seeing what the others are, I have no opinion of the ad as a whole, but this 
>specific responsibility certainly doesn't make me laugh, cringe, fear for my 
>future, or get defensive about my profession. 
>
>I'm asked (yes, often by engineers) language/grammar/writing questions fairly 
>frequently, and in the past when things weren't so busy, I did the occasional 
>short presentation on some language/writing issue at the end of a team 
>meeting. These were well received, and I often got follow-up questions. 
>
>The engineers I know are intelligent people who understand the value of 
>communicating clearly. They want to improve their writing skills in order to 
>communicate more effectively with each other, managers, and other departments 
>(sales, support, etc.), as well as with me. 
>
>IMHO, sharing what I know with people who see the value of learning it makes 
>me more valuable. And it's rewarding for me, not cringe-inducing. 
>
>
>Richard G. Combs
>Senior Technical Writer
>Polycom, Inc.
>richard.combs at polycom.com
>303-223-5111
>--
>rgcombs at gmail.com
>303-903-6372
>--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Neeraj Jain]

Technical Writing Coach...that's what they should have mentioned.
 




From: Steve Rickaby 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2011 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

More depressing even that that are the contract posts where they say 'You write 
the manuals and then our engineers will maintain them.'

-- 
Steve [an ex-engineer who's seen both sides of the fence]
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OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

[Neeraj Jain]

Technical Writing Coach...that's what they should have mentioned.
?




From: Steve Rickaby 
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2011 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Scary responsibility in job ad

More depressing even that that are the contract posts where they say 'You write 
the manuals and then our engineers will maintain them.'

-- 
Steve [an ex-engineer who's seen both sides of the fence]
___


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