Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-12 Thread Alan T Litchfield 
Jeremy,

Very keen to know more, mate. Time for a robust system that does what FM 
used to do so well.

Alan

On 12/05/13 12:54 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 11:33:13 -0700 (PDT), Writer
>  wrote:
>
>> I say we start a new company and create a competitor
>> to FrameMaker! Who's with me? Anyone? Anyone?
>
> Well... we've had one on the back burner for several
> years now.  Basically it's an Open Source GPL project,
> so zero financing needed, with a very basic core and
> plugins independently installable for most of the
> functionality.  We called it "Omni 2.0", after the
> very first product I wrote, the first screen-oriented
> editor ever on CP/M 1.4 on 8080 (way before WordStar).
>
> If there really is much interest, we can set it up
> as a SourceForge project pretty easily (we have a
> couple of others on SourceForge).  We're not set on
> that name, or on much of anything else except GPL.
>
> Greed doesn't always have to win out...  ;-)
>
> -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
>http://mif2go.com/
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as alan at alphabyte.co.nz.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

-- 
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941, Auckland
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-12 Thread Alan T Litchfield 
Funny how people put words between the lines...

On 12/05/13 12:08 PM, Steve Johnson wrote:
> That's some interesting points and some of them are probably partially
> true. What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers
> for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we were
> more rational and obedient, Adobe would be better off.

I never said Adobe "blames" anyone for anything. I am saying that Adobe 
has shareholders and share values are important. Customers are important 
too, but they are important because they improve share value (more 
customers, better share values). However, customers are only valuable 
when they are encouraged to part with their money, so to have customers 
pay more frequently is better than when they don't.

The problem with cusomters is that they cost money to do business with. 
The cost of customer management has a negative effect on share value. 
So, cut the cost of doing business and improve share value. The 
subscription model Adobe are rolling out does just that.

Obedience has nothing to do with it. Don't make it a human factor. 
Humanity has nothing to do with this. This is economics.

>
> You're side of the mark about resellers. Adobe locks down pricing and
> availability of its software; you can't buy old versions of anything
> from anybody ever and you can't get more than a few dollars of discount
> from anybody. Having other people sell for you is generally a good
> thing.

Ignoring the bit about buying old versions, as a former reseller, I can 
quite confidently tell you that you are wrong.

Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the 
product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, 
Adobe had long since removed the reseller from the channel. The 
subscription model merely removes the last part of the retail chain. 
Sure, there remain some resellers but they are concerned with large 
customers who need specific licensing requirements. These are the ones 
that for Adobe to do itself, are uneconomic.

 > But again, in the Adobe way of looking at things, what's good for
 > the customer is bad because customers always do the wrong thing.

Sorry, makes no sense. Customers (those that pay for stuff) always do 
the right thing when they are relieved of their money.

>
> Adobe is making this change in anticipation of other changes yet to be
> announced.

Meh. It's just another way to do business. I have worked out that the 
subscription model will cost me about twice much to keep getting access 
to what I have now. It will disadvantage me in the future because I have 
to continue to pay for something I do not have to continue to pay for now.

> If you love the subscription model you'll love whatever else
> they have in mind for you. It's a good time to be an apologist.
>

If I too were a fanboy, then maybe I too would be all smoochy about it. 
I have been in this business for too many years. I do not like it that 
this company (or any other) decide that I have not been paying enough 
for what I have been using and make it so that I pay more. I do not like 
it that I have to have the corporation in my head every month come 
subscription time.

On the other hand, it is good time to be a user of LaTeX, et al.

I am keen to see what Jeremy has to offer.

Alan



>
> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Alan T Litchfield  > wrote:
>
>
> On 12/05/2013, at 6:36 AM, Steve Johnson wrote:
>
> Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's
> no doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also
> make a case for getting the disks or downloading the software.
>
> Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want?
> Why is mailing me disks for additional cost or providing a
> download bad for Adobe? Clearly it isn't. There is something
> else going on.
>
> Certainly Adobe will jack up the price of subscription. They
> might have other things in mind also but the point is, why make
> everyone adopt a model that doesn't benefit everyone? What's in
> it for Adobe? That's what I'd like to know.
>
>
>
>
> Decreased cost for license management, increased cash flow through
> subscriptions, constant income stream as opposed to periodic peaks
> related to new product releases, increased profit margins, better
> share value, regional price control and management (we typically pay
> 3x the US cost for the same software), better release management (no
> more pesky resellers and middlemen), better profits from cutting out
> middlemen and resellers, therefore even better share value, more
> accurate profit forecasts at shorter time intervals, therefore even
> better share value,...
>
> Alan
>
> --
> AlphaByte
> PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140
> New Zealand
> http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
>
>
> ___

ANN: Live Online Training, May-June

2013-05-12 Thread Shlomo Perets 
Half-days; scheduled hours adjusted to fit participants' time zones.



. PDF Document Collections, May 21

. Visually-Oriented Documentation, May 22-23

. Single Sourcing with FrameMaker, May 29-30

. Rich Media in PDFs with TimeSavers+Multimedia Asst, June 3

. Using FrameMaker, June 5-6,11-12-13

. FrameMaker Template Design, June 18-19-20,25-26-27





Course description + participants' feedback:
http://www.microtype.com/training.html



Registration form: http://www.microtype.com/training/MT-Web2013b-Reg.pdf





Shlomo Perets



MicroType, http://www.microtype.com 

FrameMaker/Acrobat/Captivate training & consulting * FM-to-Acrobat
TimeSavers/Assistants



-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/attachments/20130512/34960092/attachment.html>

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-12 Thread Alan T Litchfield 

Hi Steve,

These are resellers as in, computer shops selling boxes and stuff? You 
know, retail channel?


Thanks
Alan

On 12/05/13 11:09 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote:

At 16:42 +1200 12/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote:


Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the 
product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, Adobe had 
long since removed the reseller from the channel.


Without responding to the many other issues, I just comment that we seem to 
have successful Adobe resellers here in the UK.



--
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941, Auckland
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-12 Thread Steve Rickaby 
At 16:42 +1200 12/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote:

>Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the 
>product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, Adobe had 
>long since removed the reseller from the channel.

Without responding to the many other issues, I just comment that we seem to 
have successful Adobe resellers here in the UK.

-- 
Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet]

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-12 Thread Alan T Litchfield 

On 12/05/2013, at 6:36 AM, Steve Johnson wrote:

> Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's no  
> doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also make a  
> case for getting the disks or downloading the software.
>
> Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want? Why  
> is mailing me disks for additional cost or providing a download bad  
> for Adobe? Clearly it isn't. There is something else going on.
>
> Certainly Adobe will jack up the price of subscription. They might  
> have other things in mind also but the point is, why make everyone  
> adopt a model that doesn't benefit everyone? What's in it for Adobe?  
> That's what I'd like to know.
>



Decreased cost for license management, increased cash flow through  
subscriptions, constant income stream as opposed to periodic peaks  
related to new product releases, increased profit margins, better  
share value, regional price control and management (we typically pay  
3x the US cost for the same software), better release management (no  
more pesky resellers and middlemen), better profits from cutting out  
middlemen and resellers, therefore even better share value, more  
accurate profit forecasts at shorter time intervals, therefore even  
better share value,...

Alan

--
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140
New Zealand
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz

Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-12 Thread Robert Lauriston 
Old versions of FrameMaker do what FrameMaker used to do as well as
ever. I'd really like to get my hands on a copy of FrameMaker 8.

That whole model seems outdated to me. I'd like to switch to Confluence.

On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Alan T Litchfield  
wrote:
> Time for a robust system that does what FM
> used to do so well.

OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-12 Thread Steve Johnson 
 I
> have been using and make it so that I pay more. I do not like it that I
> have to have the corporation in my head every month come subscription time.
>
> On the other hand, it is good time to be a user of LaTeX, et al.
>
> I am keen to see what Jeremy has to offer.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Alan T Litchfield > <mailto:alan at alphabyte.co.nz>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/05/2013, at 6:36 AM, Steve Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's
>> no doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also
>> make a case for getting the disks or downloading the software.
>>
>> Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want?
>> Why is mailing me disks for additional cost or providing a
>> download bad for Adobe? Clearly it isn't. There is something
>> else going on.
>>
>> Certainly Adobe will jack up the price of subscription. They
>> might have other things in mind also but the point is, why make
>> everyone adopt a model that doesn't benefit everyone? What's in
>> it for Adobe? That's what I'd like to know.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Decreased cost for license management, increased cash flow through
>> subscriptions, constant income stream as opposed to periodic peaks
>> related to new product releases, increased profit margins, better
>> share value, regional price control and management (we typically pay
>> 3x the US cost for the same software), better release management (no
>> more pesky resellers and middlemen), better profits from cutting out
>> middlemen and resellers, therefore even better share value, more
>> accurate profit forecasts at shorter time intervals, therefore even
>> better share value,...
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> --
>> AlphaByte
>> PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140
>> New Zealand
>> http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
>>
>>
>> __**___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com
>> <mailto:dr_gonzo at pobox.com>.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com
>> <mailto:framers at lists.**frameusers.com > lists.frameusers.com>
>> >.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.__fr**ameusers.com <http://frameusers.com>
>> <mailto:framers-unsubscribe@**lists.frameusers.com> at lists.frameusers.com>
>> >
>> or visit
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/__**mailman/options/framers/dr___**
>> gonzo%40pobox.com<http://lists.frameusers.com/__mailman/options/framers/dr___gonzo%40pobox.com>
>> <http://lists.frameusers.com/**mailman/options/framers/dr_**
>> gonzo%40pobox.com<http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com>
>> >
>>
>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com
>> <mailto:listadmin at frameusers.**com >. 
>> Visit
>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 
>> Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com <mailto:dr_gonzo at pobox.com>
>>
>
> --
> AlphaByte
> PO Box 1941, Auckland
> http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
>



-- 

Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/attachments/20130512/4ec4961d/attachment.html>

Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only

2013-05-12 Thread Steve Rickaby 
At 16:42 +1200 12/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote:

>Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the 
>product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, Adobe had 
>long since removed the reseller from the channel.

Without responding to the many other issues, I just comment that we seem to 
have successful Adobe resellers here in the UK.

-- 
Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet]
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

ANN: Live Online Training, May-June

2013-05-12 Thread Shlomo Perets 
Half-days; scheduled hours adjusted to fit participants' time zones.

 

. PDF Document Collections, May 21

. Visually-Oriented Documentation, May 22-23

. Single Sourcing with FrameMaker, May 29-30

. Rich Media in PDFs with TimeSavers+Multimedia Asst, June 3

. Using FrameMaker, June 5-6,11-12-13

. FrameMaker Template Design, June 18-19-20,25-26-27

 

 

Course description + participants' feedback:
http://www.microtype.com/training.html

 

Registration form: http://www.microtype.com/training/MT-Web2013b-Reg.pdf

 

 

Shlomo Perets

 

MicroType, http://www.microtype.com 

FrameMaker/Acrobat/Captivate training & consulting * FM-to-Acrobat
TimeSavers/Assistants

 

___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.