Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Steve Rickaby]

At 10:50 -0700 7/5/16, Robert Lauriston wrote:
>Is there a search utility that knows how to parse .fm files so you
>could find multi-word strings reliably?

Could PDFs also be an intermediate? Tiresome to produce, agreed, but if a 
searchable textbase is mandatory...

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Ed Nodland]

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Craig Ede  wrote:

> I suppose one might be searching on a phrase so breaks between words with
> intervening mif tags, etc would pose a problem. Sentences are often split
> in Mifs.
> Where also had problems where inserted $Header$ variables from RCS were
> mucked with by Mif. (It split the variable result because of length, I
> believe.)
> And your 'unless' is pretty crucial, too, Robert.
>
> Craig
>
> 
> From: Framers 
> on behalf of Robert Lauriston 
> Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 12:20 PM
> To: framers
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files
>
> I haven't seen that. Unless there's a tag or marker or something in
> the middle of a word it's always intact in an .fm file or exported
> .mif.
>
> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Craig Ede  wrote:
> > Even with MIF the text strings are often split in unknowable ways so
> search would be haphazard anyway.
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Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Robert Lauriston]

Is there a search utility that knows how to parse .fm files so you
could find multi-word strings reliably?

One kludge is to search for all the .fm files on your drive and drop
them in a new book. Then you can use the Find command to search all
the files in the book.
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Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Craig Ede]

I suppose one might be searching on a phrase so breaks between words with 
intervening mif tags, etc would pose a problem. Sentences are often split in 
Mifs.
Where also had problems where inserted $Header$ variables from RCS were mucked 
with by Mif. (It split the variable result because of length, I believe.)
And your 'unless' is pretty crucial, too, Robert.

Craig


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Robert Lauriston 
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 12:20 PM
To: framers
Subject: Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

I haven't seen that. Unless there's a tag or marker or something in
the middle of a word it's always intact in an .fm file or exported
.mif.

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Craig Ede  wrote:
> Even with MIF the text strings are often split in unknowable ways so search 
> would be haphazard anyway.
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Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Robert Lauriston]

Agent Ransack and other good search utilities don't need to decode an
.fm file to find individual words. If you look at an .fm file in a
text editor, you can see that the text is not compressed or encrypted.
There are all kinds of control characters mixed in, so if you're
searching for a multi-word string a search utility might miss it.

If Windows search can't find the string Thoreau inside an .fm file,
that's because it's a poor excuse for a search utility.

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 6:57 AM, Fred Ridder  wrote:
> You're not doing anything wrong. It's just the way Windows works.
>
> The ability to find text strings in the content of a file depends on Windows 
> knowing how to decode the file (if it's a binary type) and parse the 
> contents. Windows knows how to parse most common non-proprietary file 
> formats, like TXT, RTF, HTML, PDF, and so on. And it knows how to parse the 
> file formats used by Microsoft applications, like DOC, DOCX, XLS, VSD, PST. 
> But there's no return on investment for Microsoft spending the effort to 
> program Windows to parse non-Microsoft application file formats like those 
> used by FrameMaker. Simply adding the filename extensions to the list of file 
> types to be indexed does not teach Windows how to decode and parse the files. 
> It's possible that Windows would figure out how to parse a MIF file, since it 
> is text based rather than binary, but I would never expect Windows to be able 
> to do full-text indexing on a .fm binary file.
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Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Robert Lauriston]

I haven't seen that. Unless there's a tag or marker or something in
the middle of a word it's always intact in an .fm file or exported
.mif.

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Craig Ede  wrote:
> Even with MIF the text strings are often split in unknowable ways so search 
> would be haphazard anyway.
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Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Craig Ede]

Even with MIF the text strings are often split in unknowable ways so search 
would be haphazard anyway.

Craig


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Fred Ridder 
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 8:57 AM
To: Austin Meredith; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

You're not doing anything wrong. It's just the way Windows works.

The ability to find text strings in the content of a file depends on Windows 
knowing how to decode the file (if it's a binary type) and parse the contents. 
Windows knows how to parse most common non-proprietary file formats, like TXT, 
RTF, HTML, PDF, and so on. And it knows how to parse the file formats used by 
Microsoft applications, like DOC, DOCX, XLS, VSD, PST. But there's no return on 
investment for Microsoft spending the effort to program Windows to parse 
non-Microsoft application file formats like those used by FrameMaker. Simply 
adding the filename extensions to the list of file types to be indexed does not 
teach Windows how to decode and parse the files. It's possible that Windows 
would figure out how to parse a MIF file, since it is text based rather than 
binary, but I would never expect Windows to be able to do full-text indexing on 
a .fm binary file.

-Fred Ridder


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Austin Meredith 
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 9:28 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

   I don't seem to be able to persuade the File Explorer of Windows 10 to
   find Boolean content inside FrameMaker2015 files. I've tried all the
   obvious tricks such as making certain that the file suffixes ".fm" and
   ".frame" are included in the indexing list, and deleting and rebuilding
   that indexing list. File Explorer will find the name "Thoreau" if it is
   part of the FrameMaker file's filename such as "ThoreauINDEX.fm" and
   will indeed find the name "Thoreau" when it is *inside* a '.txt" or
   other file, but refuses to find the name "Thoreau" for me when it is
   inside a ".fm" or ".frame" file. What am I doing wrong? -Austin
   Meredith
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Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Robert Lauriston]

Windows' search is garbage. I use Agent Ransack, a free search tool.

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 6:28 AM, Austin Meredith  wrote:
>I don't seem to be able to persuade the File Explorer of Windows 10 to
>find Boolean content inside FrameMaker2015 files. I've tried all the
>obvious tricks such as making certain that the file suffixes ".fm" and
>".frame" are included in the indexing list, and deleting and rebuilding
>that indexing list. File Explorer will find the name "Thoreau" if it is
>part of the FrameMaker file's filename such as "ThoreauINDEX.fm" and
>will indeed find the name "Thoreau" when it is *inside* a '.txt" or
>other file, but refuses to find the name "Thoreau" for me when it is
>inside a ".fm" or ".frame" file. What am I doing wrong? -Austin
>Meredith
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Re: [Framers] Autonumbering for a Fourth Level Paragraph

[David Creamer]

I don't bother zeroing out subheadings. They default to zero automatically
whenever a higher level is changed. 

Here is my typically chapnum setup:

Heading1:   H:<$chapnum>.0\t
Heading2:   H:<$chapnum>.\t
Heading3:   H: <$chapnum>..\t
Heading4:   H:<$chapnum>...\t
Heading5:   H:<$chapnum>...\t
Heading6:   H:<$chapnum>.\t

Of course, no other numbered list should use the H: label.
As long as your book numbering is setup up correctly, this has never failed
me.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training


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Re: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Fred Ridder]

You're not doing anything wrong. It's just the way Windows works.

The ability to find text strings in the content of a file depends on Windows 
knowing how to decode the file (if it's a binary type) and parse the contents. 
Windows knows how to parse most common non-proprietary file formats, like TXT, 
RTF, HTML, PDF, and so on. And it knows how to parse the file formats used by 
Microsoft applications, like DOC, DOCX, XLS, VSD, PST. But there's no return on 
investment for Microsoft spending the effort to program Windows to parse 
non-Microsoft application file formats like those used by FrameMaker. Simply 
adding the filename extensions to the list of file types to be indexed does not 
teach Windows how to decode and parse the files. It's possible that Windows 
would figure out how to parse a MIF file, since it is text based rather than 
binary, but I would never expect Windows to be able to do full-text indexing on 
a .fm binary file. 

-Fred Ridder


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Austin Meredith 
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 9:28 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

   I don't seem to be able to persuade the File Explorer of Windows 10 to
   find Boolean content inside FrameMaker2015 files. I've tried all the
   obvious tricks such as making certain that the file suffixes ".fm" and
   ".frame" are included in the indexing list, and deleting and rebuilding
   that indexing list. File Explorer will find the name "Thoreau" if it is
   part of the FrameMaker file's filename such as "ThoreauINDEX.fm" and
   will indeed find the name "Thoreau" when it is *inside* a '.txt" or
   other file, but refuses to find the name "Thoreau" for me when it is
   inside a ".fm" or ".frame" file. What am I doing wrong? -Austin
   Meredith
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[Framers] Searching for content in FrameMaker files

[Austin Meredith]

   I don't seem to be able to persuade the File Explorer of Windows 10 to
   find Boolean content inside FrameMaker2015 files. I've tried all the
   obvious tricks such as making certain that the file suffixes ".fm" and
   ".frame" are included in the indexing list, and deleting and rebuilding
   that indexing list. File Explorer will find the name "Thoreau" if it is
   part of the FrameMaker file's filename such as "ThoreauINDEX.fm" and
   will indeed find the name "Thoreau" when it is *inside* a '.txt" or
   other file, but refuses to find the name "Thoreau" for me when it is
   inside a ".fm" or ".frame" file. What am I doing wrong? -Austin
   Meredith
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