(FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
Hi Becky, I am not certain how you are going to have this processed in pre-press but in my experience with pre-press operators is that they really hate it when they have to delete and rebuild crop marks on multi-page pdfs. Especially if they are reflecting left/right page layouts. The page shown onscreen in Framemaker (and different to page layout programs like InDesign that include the pasteboard) is the physical page that is enclosed by crop/trim marks. That means what you see on the page is that area that is bounded by the excess that will be chopped off when the page has been printed. Typically anything outside the page boundary will not exist when the job is done. If you are wanting to die-cut anything on a page you need to have that within the trim marks (on the physical page shown in FrameMaker) otherwise you are forcing the pre-press operator to create arbitrary trim marks for you. They may or may not be accurate because they were not created at the time that the document was and they will not have been created by the program that created the file was. That is why you received the earlier responses that you did. You need to consider creating a die-cut on your page master pages and put inside that the page elements you want on the finished printed page. The page dimensions would be the standard page size you are working with, say A4 (210mm x 297mm), plus the tab dimensions which would add an additional 15mm (at a guess). This would make your actual page size 225mm x 297mm. You would have two die-cut images that reflect each other for right and left pages, and of course however many die-cuts you have running down the page would necessitate additional image file pairs. If you are splitting this up into sections/chapters denoted by the die- cut tabs then each file would have a slightly different master page with a different die-cut image pair. The die-cut image files will have the same spot colour that is not used in the document. Do not use something like black, magenta, or cyan for it. The die-cut knife makers will need to be able to produce separations so they can program their machine that makes the knife (if it is automated) or produce accurate film output (if they are doing it by hand, which many do). HIH Alan On 17/10/2010, at 7:34 AM, Edmondson, Becky wrote: > OK, I figured this out. > > For those curious about what I'm doing: I am setting up pages for > die-cut tabs. The tabs extend beyond the trim lines of the page, > just like manila folder tabs. I need to get some text on those tabs, > which means I need to move a text box out there. > > Turns out you can position anything of any size off of the page, *as > long as one edge of its bounding box is on the page*. And Frame > makes it easy for you. Create an object (text box, filled object), > and press CTL-ALT to move it off the page. Frame will move it until > one edge is right at the page edge and no farther. > > Create a PDF with trim marks. You will see the object outside of the > page. > > The hard part is calculating how to position the text boxes. You > have to figure out the horizontal and vertical center of each tab, > then how big to make the text box to center it's middle on that point. > > Cheers, > Becky > > * All information contained in this email should be considered > confidential and proprietary. * > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as alan at alphabyte.co.nz. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice
(FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
On 18/10/2010, at 9:39 AM, Edmondson, Becky wrote: > HI Alan, > > I don't understand this--> "The page shown onscreen in Framemaker > (and different to page layout > programs like InDesign that include the pasteboard) is the physical > page that is enclosed by crop/trim marks. That means what you see on > the page is that area that is bounded by the excess that will be > chopped off when the page has been printed. Typically anything outside > the page boundary will not exist when the job is done." > > My document size is 7.25 x 9 and the tabs will only be on chapter > headers, so they will all be right-sided pages. When I PDF the file, > I set the page boundaries to 8.5 x 11 and turn on crop marks. What > I see in the PDF is the bleed exactly where it needs to be--0.2 > inches outside the trim mark on the right side of the involved pages. I have made some assumptions. That your book will have right and left pages, but I did mention that in my previous post, and that the tabbed pages will be within the FrameMaker files and that all the pages are tabbed (on that count I was wrong). So, you are saying that the printed page size will be 7.25" x 9" but that the tabs will only appear on selected pages (the first page of each chapter). Then you have two approaches (at least): 1. Have a separate file for the chapter first page and its reverse that has a different page size to the rest of the document. 2. Have all the pages the same size (8.5" x 11") but provide trim marks on the standard page masters that use the same spot colour as the trim parks that are provided by FrameMaker. In either case the first page of each chapter, unless is breaks the laws of nature, must have another side to it. Therefore you need to provide a page master for it because it will be different to all the other pages. It is left facing and it has a die-cut. > > Is there any reason this won't work? Hard to say. I can't see what you can. From what you have described all the pages will be cut to trim 8.5" x 11" but you said that the page size should be 7.25" x 9". HIH Alan -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice
Re: (FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
Hi Becky, I am not certain how you are going to have this processed in pre-press but in my experience with pre-press operators is that they really hate it when they have to delete and rebuild crop marks on multi-page pdfs. Especially if they are reflecting left/right page layouts. The page shown onscreen in Framemaker (and different to page layout programs like InDesign that include the pasteboard) is the physical page that is enclosed by crop/trim marks. That means what you see on the page is that area that is bounded by the excess that will be chopped off when the page has been printed. Typically anything outside the page boundary will not exist when the job is done. If you are wanting to die-cut anything on a page you need to have that within the trim marks (on the physical page shown in FrameMaker) otherwise you are forcing the pre-press operator to create arbitrary trim marks for you. They may or may not be accurate because they were not created at the time that the document was and they will not have been created by the program that created the file was. That is why you received the earlier responses that you did. You need to consider creating a die-cut on your page master pages and put inside that the page elements you want on the finished printed page. The page dimensions would be the standard page size you are working with, say A4 (210mm x 297mm), plus the tab dimensions which would add an additional 15mm (at a guess). This would make your actual page size 225mm x 297mm. You would have two die-cut images that reflect each other for right and left pages, and of course however many die-cuts you have running down the page would necessitate additional image file pairs. If you are splitting this up into sections/chapters denoted by the die- cut tabs then each file would have a slightly different master page with a different die-cut image pair. The die-cut image files will have the same spot colour that is not used in the document. Do not use something like black, magenta, or cyan for it. The die-cut knife makers will need to be able to produce separations so they can program their machine that makes the knife (if it is automated) or produce accurate film output (if they are doing it by hand, which many do). HIH Alan On 17/10/2010, at 7:34 AM, Edmondson, Becky wrote: OK, I figured this out. For those curious about what I'm doing: I am setting up pages for die-cut tabs. The tabs extend beyond the trim lines of the page, just like manila folder tabs. I need to get some text on those tabs, which means I need to move a text box out there. Turns out you can position anything of any size off of the page, *as long as one edge of its bounding box is on the page*. And Frame makes it easy for you. Create an object (text box, filled object), and press CTL-ALT to move it off the page. Frame will move it until one edge is right at the page edge and no farther. Create a PDF with trim marks. You will see the object outside of the page. The hard part is calculating how to position the text boxes. You have to figure out the horizontal and vertical center of each tab, then how big to make the text box to center it's middle on that point. Cheers, Becky * All information contained in this email should be considered confidential and proprietary. * ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as a...@alphabyte.co.nz. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: (FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
On 18/10/2010, at 9:39 AM, Edmondson, Becky wrote: HI Alan, I don't understand this-- The page shown onscreen in Framemaker (and different to page layout programs like InDesign that include the pasteboard) is the physical page that is enclosed by crop/trim marks. That means what you see on the page is that area that is bounded by the excess that will be chopped off when the page has been printed. Typically anything outside the page boundary will not exist when the job is done. My document size is 7.25 x 9 and the tabs will only be on chapter headers, so they will all be right-sided pages. When I PDF the file, I set the page boundaries to 8.5 x 11 and turn on crop marks. What I see in the PDF is the bleed exactly where it needs to be--0.2 inches outside the trim mark on the right side of the involved pages. I have made some assumptions. That your book will have right and left pages, but I did mention that in my previous post, and that the tabbed pages will be within the FrameMaker files and that all the pages are tabbed (on that count I was wrong). So, you are saying that the printed page size will be 7.25 x 9 but that the tabs will only appear on selected pages (the first page of each chapter). Then you have two approaches (at least): 1. Have a separate file for the chapter first page and its reverse that has a different page size to the rest of the document. 2. Have all the pages the same size (8.5 x 11) but provide trim marks on the standard page masters that use the same spot colour as the trim parks that are provided by FrameMaker. In either case the first page of each chapter, unless is breaks the laws of nature, must have another side to it. Therefore you need to provide a page master for it because it will be different to all the other pages. It is left facing and it has a die-cut. Is there any reason this won't work? Hard to say. I can't see what you can. From what you have described all the pages will be cut to trim 8.5 x 11 but you said that the page size should be 7.25 x 9. HIH Alan -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
(FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
OK, I figured this out. For those curious about what I'm doing: I am setting up pages for die-cut tabs. The tabs extend beyond the trim lines of the page, just like manila folder tabs. I need to get some text on those tabs, which means I need to move a text box out there. Turns out you can position anything of any size off of the page, *as long as one edge of its bounding box is on the page*. And Frame makes it easy for you. Create an object (text box, filled object), and press CTL-ALT to move it off the page. Frame will move it until one edge is right at the page edge and no farther. Create a PDF with trim marks. You will see the object outside of the page. The hard part is calculating how to position the text boxes. You have to figure out the horizontal and vertical center of each tab, then how big to make the text box to center it's middle on that point. Cheers, Becky * All information contained in this email should be considered confidential and proprietary. *
(FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
On 5/10/2010, at 9:19 AM, Edmondson, Becky wrote: > We want to create a doc with manila-folder-style tabs on the chapter > headers. The tabs are to be a solid color and have some text on them. So far, pretty standard stuff :) > > I know how to create bleeding tabs and how to size and position the > graphics box to allow for the die-cut trim. My problem is figuring > how to get the text placed on the part of the tab that projects > outside of the FM page edge. So let me get this straight. When the job is to be printed, you want the text to be trimmed off and thrown away, right? > I put the text in a table, inside of a textbox, inside of the > graphics box, and then rotated the table. Yep. Sounds about right. > So far so good. But Frame resists every effort to move it outside of > the page. Partially moving the text box off the page, so that the > bottom of the box is visible on the page, doesn't work. That's because it is designed to have objects on the page, and will then be printed, not off the page. > > I am truly stumped. Can't find anything on the web about this. > Anyone know how to do this? > > And that is because when people put objects on the page it is because they want them to be included in the print job, otherwise they don't put them on the page. Why do you want to move the text off the page anyway? If that is what you want, why not just delete it now? ?? Alan -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice
(FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
Hi, Is there a graphic below the text with Runaround Properties set? With such settings text might not move to the intended position. Best regards Winfried > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of > Edmondson, Becky > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:20 PM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: (FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text? > > We want to create a doc with manila-folder-style tabs on the > chapter headers. The tabs are to be a solid color and have > some text on them. > > I know how to create bleeding tabs and how to size and > position the graphics box to allow for the die-cut trim. My > problem is figuring how to get the text placed on the part of > the tab that projects outside of the FM page edge. I put the > text in a table, inside of a textbox, inside of the graphics > box, and then rotated the table. So far so good. But Frame > resists every effort to move it outside of the page. > Partially moving the text box off the page, so that the > bottom of the box is visible on the page, doesn't work. > > I am truly stumped. Can't find anything on the web about > this. Anyone know how to do this? > > --Becky > > * All information contained in this email should be > considered confidential and proprietary. *
Re: (FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
On 5/10/2010, at 9:19 AM, Edmondson, Becky wrote: We want to create a doc with manila-folder-style tabs on the chapter headers. The tabs are to be a solid color and have some text on them. So far, pretty standard stuff :) I know how to create bleeding tabs and how to size and position the graphics box to allow for the die-cut trim. My problem is figuring how to get the text placed on the part of the tab that projects outside of the FM page edge. So let me get this straight. When the job is to be printed, you want the text to be trimmed off and thrown away, right? I put the text in a table, inside of a textbox, inside of the graphics box, and then rotated the table. Yep. Sounds about right. So far so good. But Frame resists every effort to move it outside of the page. Partially moving the text box off the page, so that the bottom of the box is visible on the page, doesn't work. That's because it is designed to have objects on the page, and will then be printed, not off the page. I am truly stumped. Can't find anything on the web about this. Anyone know how to do this? And that is because when people put objects on the page it is because they want them to be included in the print job, otherwise they don't put them on the page. Why do you want to move the text off the page anyway? If that is what you want, why not just delete it now? ?? Alan -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: (FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
By your description, I assume the chapter pages will be card stock and not the normal paper the rest of the book will be printed on, so the tabs won't tear upon first use. What I would do is use a different template for the chapter pages, and manually control the pagination of the content pages rather than continuing numbering from the previous file. I'd lay the die-cut template out so the tab is within the page region, and refine the crop lines. All that said, I am curious about why you want to take this overly complicated approach. On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Edmondson, Becky bedmond...@ahurascientific.com wrote: We want to create a doc with manila-folder-style tabs on the chapter headers. The tabs are to be a solid color and have some text on them. I know how to create bleeding tabs and how to size and position the graphics box to allow for the die-cut trim. My problem is figuring how to get the text placed on the part of the tab that projects outside of the FM page edge. I put the text in a table, inside of a textbox, inside of the graphics box, and then rotated the table. So far so good. But Frame resists every effort to move it outside of the page. Partially moving the text box off the page, so that the bottom of the box is visible on the page, doesn't work. I am truly stumped. Can't find anything on the web about this. Anyone know how to do this? --Becky -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
(FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
By your description, I assume the chapter pages will be card stock and not the normal paper the rest of the book will be printed on, so the tabs won't tear upon first use. What I would do is use a different template for the chapter pages, and manually control the pagination of the content pages rather than continuing numbering from the previous file. I'd lay the die-cut template out so the tab is within the "page" region, and refine the crop lines. All that said, I am curious about why you want to take this overly complicated approach. On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Edmondson, Becky wrote: > We want to create a doc with manila-folder-style tabs on the chapter headers. > The tabs are to be a solid color and have some text on them. > > I know how to create bleeding tabs and ?how to size and position the graphics > box to allow for the die-cut trim. My problem is figuring how to get the text > placed on the part of the tab that projects outside of the FM page edge. I > put the text in a table, inside of a textbox, inside of the graphics box, and > then rotated the table. So far so good. But Frame resists every effort to > move it outside of the page. Partially moving the text box off the page, so > that the bottom of the box is visible on the page, doesn't work. > > I am truly stumped. Can't find anything on the web about this. Anyone know > how to do this? > > --Becky -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
(FM 9) layout for die-cut side tabs with text?
We want to create a doc with manila-folder-style tabs on the chapter headers. The tabs are to be a solid color and have some text on them. I know how to create bleeding tabs and how to size and position the graphics box to allow for the die-cut trim. My problem is figuring how to get the text placed on the part of the tab that projects outside of the FM page edge. I put the text in a table, inside of a textbox, inside of the graphics box, and then rotated the table. So far so good. But Frame resists every effort to move it outside of the page. Partially moving the text box off the page, so that the bottom of the box is visible on the page, doesn't work. I am truly stumped. Can't find anything on the web about this. Anyone know how to do this? --Becky * All information contained in this email should be considered confidential and proprietary. *
