Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
Well put! On 4/23/2021 2:19 PM, Craig Ede wrote: Yes, the structured documents have the ability to put one tag inside another tag. Much more systematic and—dare I say it—better structured. Craig From: Framers on behalf of Lynne A. Price Won't help with the definition of cross-reference formats, but in running text, you can apply two character formats easily in a structured document--one element inside another, each applying character properties. Both element tags survive. --Lynne ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com -- Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
Yes, the structured documents have the ability to put one tag inside another tag. Much more systematic and—dare I say it—better structured. Craig From: Framers on behalf of Lynne A. Price Won't help with the definition of cross-reference formats, but in running text, you can apply two character formats easily in a structured document--one element inside another, each applying character properties. Both element tags survive. --Lynne ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
Yep, that is a pitfall. I am just gonna follow the advice about a "one tag" for all and go from there. Thanks everyone for the replies.TVB Sent from Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Craig Ede Date: 4/23/21 9:08 AM (GMT-07:00) To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." Subject: Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue Rick’s suggestion highlights one of the pitfalls of FrameMaker’s tagging system. If you overlay a character tag with another character tag, you may get a mix of characteristics in the text depending on the settings for each of the character tags. Anything left “As Is” in the second applied tag will retain the earlier tag’s setting (if it differs from the paragraph settings). However, if you search on the first char tag name, FM will not find it in any text where another char tag has overlaid it, so you lost the ability to search effectively for a tag. You’re then stuck with modifying such text by doing a search for character tag overrides.Much better to foresee what combinations of characteristics might occur and create separate ‘combo tags’ that do all the things you might want done to the text. Just remember to have a template usage guide that gives your writers this info so that they don’t subvert the intent by just overlaying two tags.CraigFrom: Framers on behalf of r...@rickquatro.com Instead of applying two character formats, I would suggest that you make asingle character format called SuperscriptLink (or something like that) thathas both the superscript position and your link color. This should be morereliable than applying two separate character formats to the number.Rick Quatro___This message is from the Framers mailing listSend messages to framers@lists.frameusers.comVisit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.comArchives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.comSend administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
Craig, Won't help with the definition of cross-reference formats, but in running text, you can apply two character formats easily in a structured document--one element inside another, each applying character properties. Both element tags survive. --Lynne On 4/23/2021 8:08 AM, Craig Ede wrote: Rick’s suggestion highlights one of the pitfalls of FrameMaker’s tagging system. If you overlay a character tag with another character tag, you may get a mix of characteristics in the text depending on the settings for each of the character tags. Anything left “As Is” in the second applied tag will retain the earlier tag’s setting (if it differs from the paragraph settings). However, if you search on the first char tag name, FM will not find it in any text where another char tag has overlaid it, so you lost the ability to search effectively for a tag. You’re then stuck with modifying such text by doing a search for character tag overrides. Much better to foresee what combinations of characteristics might occur and create separate ‘combo tags’ that do all the things you might want done to the text. Just remember to have a template usage guide that gives your writers this info so that they don’t subvert the intent by just overlaying two tags. -- Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
To Craig's point about informing template users (including my own future self,) about gotchas, I used to place short conditionalized informative notes in margin areas on master pages. The notes were turned on in the saved templates, so they would not be missed on first use. If needed, they would point to the location of detailed template documentation. On Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 10:08 AM Craig Ede wrote: > Rick’s suggestion highlights one of the pitfalls of FrameMaker’s tagging > system. If you overlay a character tag with another character tag, you may > get a mix of characteristics in the text depending on the settings for each > of the character tags. Anything left “As Is” in the second applied tag will > retain the earlier tag’s setting (if it differs from the paragraph > settings). However, if you search on the first char tag name, FM will not > find it in any text where another char tag has overlaid it, so you lost the > ability to search effectively for a tag. You’re then stuck with modifying > such text by doing a search for character tag overrides. > > Much better to foresee what combinations of characteristics might occur > and create separate ‘combo tags’ that do all the things you might want done > to the text. Just remember to have a template usage guide that gives your > writers this info so that they don’t subvert the intent by just overlaying > two tags. > > Craig > > > From: Framers > on behalf of r...@rickquatro.com > Instead of applying two character formats, I would suggest that you > make a > single character format called SuperscriptLink (or something like that) > that > has both the superscript position and your link color. This should be more > reliable than applying two separate character formats to the number. > > Rick Quatro > > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
Rick’s suggestion highlights one of the pitfalls of FrameMaker’s tagging system. If you overlay a character tag with another character tag, you may get a mix of characteristics in the text depending on the settings for each of the character tags. Anything left “As Is” in the second applied tag will retain the earlier tag’s setting (if it differs from the paragraph settings). However, if you search on the first char tag name, FM will not find it in any text where another char tag has overlaid it, so you lost the ability to search effectively for a tag. You’re then stuck with modifying such text by doing a search for character tag overrides. Much better to foresee what combinations of characteristics might occur and create separate ‘combo tags’ that do all the things you might want done to the text. Just remember to have a template usage guide that gives your writers this info so that they don’t subvert the intent by just overlaying two tags. Craig From: Framers on behalf of r...@rickquatro.com Instead of applying two character formats, I would suggest that you make a single character format called SuperscriptLink (or something like that) that has both the superscript position and your link color. This should be more reliable than applying two separate character formats to the number. Rick Quatro ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
LOL. Great minds. . . after sending out this email, that is exactly what I decided to do. I have a format called exactly this w/ the color set to my Link color and Superscript turned on. Everything else is set to as-is. And all seems to be well after updating the book. Fingers crossed that this setup stays consistent. Like I said, what was weird is that this problem wasn't immediate, so . . . Thanks Rick! TVB Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of r...@rickquatro.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 7:00 PM To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' Subject: Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue How is your Link character format set up? Is the Position property set to As Is? If not, that may be the issue. Instead of applying two character formats, I would suggest that you make a single character format called SuperscriptLink (or something like that) that has both the superscript position and your link color. This should be more reliable than applying two separate character formats to the number. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-729-6746 r...@frameexpert.com http://www.frameexpert.com/store -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 5:37 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue I am writing a scientific principles guides that is heavily referenced, and I do mean heavily . (Like to the tune of over 400 references.) I have two x-reference formats for this: Reference, <$paranumonly>, Reference <$paranumonly> After writing for a bit (and saving frequently), I decide to update the book file. I use Edit > Update Book, and in the Update Book dialog, everything (and I do mean everything, cross-references included) is selected for update. I get absolutely no errors after updating but EVERY SINGLE cross-reference that uses either of the above formats loses its superscript formatting. Blam. .. they are all in line and of the same font size as an ordinary line of body text. I have to go into each and every file and select Edit > Update References with Cross-References selected and then and only then do the references go back to superscript. I am at a total loss for why this is happening and the real kicker is that this just started happening last week. Until then, same book, same template, same bat channel, same bat time, and I could do a simple Edit > Update Book and everything was just peachy. Needless to say, this is a big PITA, and very time-consuming. If anybody has any ideas/thoughts, can commiserate, and offer a solution other than drinking heavily at the end of a long day of writing, I would most appreciate it. Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
How is your Link character format set up? Is the Position property set to As Is? If not, that may be the issue. Instead of applying two character formats, I would suggest that you make a single character format called SuperscriptLink (or something like that) that has both the superscript position and your link color. This should be more reliable than applying two separate character formats to the number. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-729-6746 r...@frameexpert.com http://www.frameexpert.com/store -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 5:37 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue I am writing a scientific principles guides that is heavily referenced, and I do mean heavily . (Like to the tune of over 400 references.) I have two x-reference formats for this: Reference, <$paranumonly>, Reference <$paranumonly> After writing for a bit (and saving frequently), I decide to update the book file. I use Edit > Update Book, and in the Update Book dialog, everything (and I do mean everything, cross-references included) is selected for update. I get absolutely no errors after updating but EVERY SINGLE cross-reference that uses either of the above formats loses its superscript formatting. Blam. .. they are all in line and of the same font size as an ordinary line of body text. I have to go into each and every file and select Edit > Update References with Cross-References selected and then and only then do the references go back to superscript. I am at a total loss for why this is happening and the real kicker is that this just started happening last week. Until then, same book, same template, same bat channel, same bat time, and I could do a simple Edit > Update Book and everything was just peachy. Needless to say, this is a big PITA, and very time-consuming. If anybody has any ideas/thoughts, can commiserate, and offer a solution other than drinking heavily at the end of a long day of writing, I would most appreciate it. Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
[Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue
I am writing a scientific principles guides that is heavily referenced, and I do mean heavily . (Like to the tune of over 400 references.) I have two x-reference formats for this: Reference, <$paranumonly>, Reference <$paranumonly> After writing for a bit (and saving frequently), I decide to update the book file. I use Edit > Update Book, and in the Update Book dialog, everything (and I do mean everything, cross-references included) is selected for update. I get absolutely no errors after updating but EVERY SINGLE cross-reference that uses either of the above formats loses its superscript formatting. Blam. .. they are all in line and of the same font size as an ordinary line of body text. I have to go into each and every file and select Edit > Update References with Cross-References selected and then and only then do the references go back to superscript. I am at a total loss for why this is happening and the real kicker is that this just started happening last week. Until then, same book, same template, same bat channel, same bat time, and I could do a simple Edit > Update Book and everything was just peachy. Needless to say, this is a big PITA, and very time-consuming. If anybody has any ideas/thoughts, can commiserate, and offer a solution other than drinking heavily at the end of a long day of writing, I would most appreciate it. Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
