Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-23 Thread Lynne A. Price

Doug,
   You are quite welcome. I think you will find that the boolean 
expressions are much easier to manage than the large number of tags that 
would be needed to use Show and Hide.

    --Lynne

On 12/23/2019 6:51 AM, Doug wrote:

I just now tried out your suggestion using the original version of my
chapter.  The results were just as you predicted, everything displayed as I
had hoped.  The "40" and not("PDF") did the trick; it is the kind of
expression I originally had in mind though the wording hadn't occurred to
me.

Thanks!



--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284

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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-23 Thread Doug
Lynne,

I just now tried out your suggestion using the original version of my
chapter.  The results were just as you predicted, everything displayed as I
had hoped.  The "40" and not("PDF") did the trick; it is the kind of
expression I originally had in mind though the wording hadn't occurred to
me.

Thanks!

Doug

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 1:52 PM Lynne A. Price  wrote:

> In your situation, you must use conditional expressions. You'll need
> 8 of them, one for PDF and one for HTML for each chapter. Use View >
> Show/Hide Conditional Text to define all 8 of them in the chapter and
> then apply the one you want.
>
> There are a couple of problems with the expressions Doug has used. I
> believe the tag names have to be in quotes. Also, Doug has started his
> expression for the PDF version of  book 40 with:
>
>  not  ("41" or "42" or "44" or "HTML")
>
> That will exclude anything with tagged 40 and any of the other book
> tags. In particular, it will exclude your "except 44" case, which will
> be tagged with 40, 41, and 42. Instead, assuming you will never tag
> something with both HTML and PDF, you can use simply:
>
>  "40" and not("PDF")
>
> The other 7 expressions follow this model.
>  --Lynne
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread Lynne A. Price

On 12/20/2019 10:38 AM, Doug wrote:

What worked was
applying a single condition tag that was named for the multiple conditions.
...

That worked as I had hoped,   I even was able to use the Show As Per
Condition section instead of the Show As Per Expression section.

Doug,
   Yes, you can define a tag for each possible combination of books and 
outputs in which you want particular text shown. Doing so allows you to 
use Show/Hide instead of conditional expressions. You'll have to  define 
many more condition tags with this approach. If you ever add more books 
or have different combinations (such as content included in books 40 and 
41 but neither 42 nor 44), the number or tags will become much larger.

    --Lynne

--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284

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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread Lynne A. Price

Doug,
    I agree with Lin, that it is more straightforward to avoid 
"negative" tags that would have been used to indicate when you don't 
want content included. Like him, I would use six tags: 40, 41, 42, 44, 
PDF, and HTML and apply one or more of them to content that doesn't 
appear in all publications. If something is needed in all books except 
44, then apply 40, 41, and 42.


    Remember that FM provides two ways of specifying what conditional 
tags to use:


1. For each condition, specify whether it is to be shown or hidden. If
   more than one condition applies to particular content, FM shows it
   if any of the tags or shown.
2. Define conditional expressions which are boolean expressions and
   give you much more control over display of content to which you've
   applied multiple tags.

   In your situation, you must use conditional expressions. You'll need 
8 of them, one for PDF and one for HTML for each chapter. Use View > 
Show/Hide Conditional Text to define all 8 of them in the chapter and 
then apply the one you want.


   There are a couple of problems with the expressions Doug has used. I 
believe the tag names have to be in quotes. Also, Doug has started his 
expression for the PDF version of  book 40 with:


    not      ("41" or "42" or "44" or "HTML")

That will exclude anything with tagged 40 and any of the other book 
tags. In particular, it will exclude your "except 44" case, which will 
be tagged with 40, 41, and 42. Instead, assuming you will never tag 
something with both HTML and PDF, you can use simply:


    "40" and not("PDF")

The other 7 expressions follow this model.
    --Lynne

On 12/20/2019 8:38 AM, Doug wrote:

I'm currently editing a chapter that is common to four books.  The books
are 40, 41, 42, and 44.  Some content isn't applicable to book 44, so I've
set up a condition tag named "Not 44".


On 12/20/2019 9:35 AM, Lin Sims wrote:

For Book 40, PDF: not (41 or 42 or 44 or HTML) and not (40 and HTML)
For Book 40, HTML: not (41 or 42 or 44 or PDF) and not (40 and PDF)





--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284

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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread Doug
Lin,

Looks like that works.  I had been trying to apply multiple condition tags
to the HTML (and PDF) sections, but that wasn't working.  What worked was
applying a single condition tag that was named for the multiple conditions.

For instance, instead of applying the following four tags:

"40"+"41"+"42"+"HTML"

I applied the single tag:

"40,41,42,HTML"

(and for the PDF I applied  "40,41,42,PDF" )

That worked as I had hoped,   I even was able to use the Show As Per
Condition section instead of the Show As Per Expression section.

Your help was essential.  Thanks.

Doug
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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread Doug
Thanks Lin, I'll give it a shot.

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:42 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Err, by repeat for each book, I mean duplicate the expressions but editing
> them appropriately. So Book 40, which is your special one, uses almost the
> identical expression:
>
> Book 44, PDF: not (40 or 41 or 42 or HTML) and not (44 and HTML)
> Book 44, HTML: not (40 or 41 or 42 or PDF) and not (44 and PDF)
>
> I think you can see from this how the expressions would need to be edited
> for 41 and 42?
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:35 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > Conditioning text works best if you keep it consistent: all of your
> > conditions should be constructed either for the information you DO want
> to
> > appear in a specific document or for information you DON'T want to appear
> > in a specific document. Making some conditions for information you want
> in
> > and some you want out is, as you're discovering, hard to work with,
> > especially when you have some of the conditions on a piece of information
> > are for showing and some are for hiding.
> >
> > Over the years, I've found that it is far, far easier to tag for the
> > documents you want the information to be IN.
> >
> > For example, in your case, if the information is only visible in 41, tag
> > it with 41 but not 40, 42, or 44. If it's visible in 40, 41, and 42 but
> not
> > 44, tag it with 40, 41, and 42 but not 44. Yes, it seems like extra work,
> > but it produces consistent results.
> >
> > You also have two output conditions, PDF or HTML. This is where things
> get
> > trickier and where expressions come into play because you have to
> carefully
> > describe the information you want to be visible when there are multiple
> > tags on the text. (The problem with using the Show/Hide panes is that if
> > you have multiple tags on the text, using the Show/Hide panes means that
> > the text will be visible if even one tag is in the Show pane.)
> >
> > If you tag the way I suggest, I believe the following will work:
> >
> > For Book 40, PDF: not (41 or 42 or 44 or HTML) and not (40 and HTML)
> > For Book 40, HTML: not (41 or 42 or 44 or PDF) and not (40 and PDF)
> >
> > and repeat for each book.
> >
> > One of these days, I ought to write up an article on complex conditional
> > expressions. At one point, I was handling a set of files with 10
> different
> > outputs arising from 15 different conditions. The expressions were ...
> > complicated. And very, very long. I actually used multiple tables to
> figure
> > out the combinations needed to produce the output I wanted.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:38 AM Doug  wrote:
> >
> >> Things are getting complicated.
> >>
> >> I'm currently editing a chapter that is common to four books.  The books
> >> are 40, 41, 42, and 44.  Some content isn't applicable to book 44, so
> I've
> >> set up a condition tag named "Not 44".
> >>
> >> The problematic content sections use the tags (Not 44+PDF) and (Not
> >> 44+HTML), since some content is PDF-only and other content is HTML only.
> >> Needless to say, these bits of content are applicable to 40, 41, and 42
> >> (but not 44).
> >>
> >> Is using "Not 44" a bad condition?  I feel it must be because when I
> Show
> >> As Per Expression it shows both the  (Not 44+PDF) and (Not 44+HTML)
> >> sections, I assume because the expression says in include "Not 44"
> >> content.  It's as if the parentheses don't mean anything.
> >>
> >> Some content is unique to each book (4 condition possibilities)
> >> Some is common to some books
> >> Some is common to all books
> >> Some is PDF
> >> Some is HTML
> >>
> >> Ideas?  Thanks.
> >> ___
> >>
> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >>
> >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> >> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> >> Archives located at
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> >> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread Lin Sims
Book 44 ... damnit. Tpyos r me.

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:42 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Err, by repeat for each book, I mean duplicate the expressions but editing
> them appropriately. So Book 40, which is your special one, uses almost the
> identical expression:
>
> Book 44, PDF: not (40 or 41 or 42 or HTML) and not (44 and HTML)
> Book 44, HTML: not (40 or 41 or 42 or PDF) and not (44 and PDF)
>
> I think you can see from this how the expressions would need to be edited
> for 41 and 42?
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:35 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
>> Conditioning text works best if you keep it consistent: all of your
>> conditions should be constructed either for the information you DO want to
>> appear in a specific document or for information you DON'T want to appear
>> in a specific document. Making some conditions for information you want in
>> and some you want out is, as you're discovering, hard to work with,
>> especially when you have some of the conditions on a piece of information
>> are for showing and some are for hiding.
>>
>> Over the years, I've found that it is far, far easier to tag for the
>> documents you want the information to be IN.
>>
>> For example, in your case, if the information is only visible in 41, tag
>> it with 41 but not 40, 42, or 44. If it's visible in 40, 41, and 42 but not
>> 44, tag it with 40, 41, and 42 but not 44. Yes, it seems like extra work,
>> but it produces consistent results.
>>
>> You also have two output conditions, PDF or HTML. This is where things
>> get trickier and where expressions come into play because you have to
>> carefully describe the information you want to be visible when there are
>> multiple tags on the text. (The problem with using the Show/Hide panes is
>> that if you have multiple tags on the text, using the Show/Hide panes means
>> that the text will be visible if even one tag is in the Show pane.)
>>
>> If you tag the way I suggest, I believe the following will work:
>>
>> For Book 40, PDF: not (41 or 42 or 44 or HTML) and not (40 and HTML)
>> For Book 40, HTML: not (41 or 42 or 44 or PDF) and not (40 and PDF)
>>
>> and repeat for each book.
>>
>> One of these days, I ought to write up an article on complex conditional
>> expressions. At one point, I was handling a set of files with 10 different
>> outputs arising from 15 different conditions. The expressions were ...
>> complicated. And very, very long. I actually used multiple tables to figure
>> out the combinations needed to produce the output I wanted.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:38 AM Doug  wrote:
>>
>>> Things are getting complicated.
>>>
>>> I'm currently editing a chapter that is common to four books.  The books
>>> are 40, 41, 42, and 44.  Some content isn't applicable to book 44, so
>>> I've
>>> set up a condition tag named "Not 44".
>>>
>>> The problematic content sections use the tags (Not 44+PDF) and (Not
>>> 44+HTML), since some content is PDF-only and other content is HTML only.
>>> Needless to say, these bits of content are applicable to 40, 41, and 42
>>> (but not 44).
>>>
>>> Is using "Not 44" a bad condition?  I feel it must be because when I Show
>>> As Per Expression it shows both the  (Not 44+PDF) and (Not 44+HTML)
>>> sections, I assume because the expression says in include "Not 44"
>>> content.  It's as if the parentheses don't mean anything.
>>>
>>> Some content is unique to each book (4 condition possibilities)
>>> Some is common to some books
>>> Some is common to all books
>>> Some is PDF
>>> Some is HTML
>>>
>>> Ideas?  Thanks.
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>>
>>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
>>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
>>> Archives located at
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
>>> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
>>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lin Sims
>>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>


-- 
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread Lin Sims
Err, by repeat for each book, I mean duplicate the expressions but editing
them appropriately. So Book 40, which is your special one, uses almost the
identical expression:

Book 44, PDF: not (40 or 41 or 42 or HTML) and not (44 and HTML)
Book 44, HTML: not (40 or 41 or 42 or PDF) and not (44 and PDF)

I think you can see from this how the expressions would need to be edited
for 41 and 42?

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:35 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Conditioning text works best if you keep it consistent: all of your
> conditions should be constructed either for the information you DO want to
> appear in a specific document or for information you DON'T want to appear
> in a specific document. Making some conditions for information you want in
> and some you want out is, as you're discovering, hard to work with,
> especially when you have some of the conditions on a piece of information
> are for showing and some are for hiding.
>
> Over the years, I've found that it is far, far easier to tag for the
> documents you want the information to be IN.
>
> For example, in your case, if the information is only visible in 41, tag
> it with 41 but not 40, 42, or 44. If it's visible in 40, 41, and 42 but not
> 44, tag it with 40, 41, and 42 but not 44. Yes, it seems like extra work,
> but it produces consistent results.
>
> You also have two output conditions, PDF or HTML. This is where things get
> trickier and where expressions come into play because you have to carefully
> describe the information you want to be visible when there are multiple
> tags on the text. (The problem with using the Show/Hide panes is that if
> you have multiple tags on the text, using the Show/Hide panes means that
> the text will be visible if even one tag is in the Show pane.)
>
> If you tag the way I suggest, I believe the following will work:
>
> For Book 40, PDF: not (41 or 42 or 44 or HTML) and not (40 and HTML)
> For Book 40, HTML: not (41 or 42 or 44 or PDF) and not (40 and PDF)
>
> and repeat for each book.
>
> One of these days, I ought to write up an article on complex conditional
> expressions. At one point, I was handling a set of files with 10 different
> outputs arising from 15 different conditions. The expressions were ...
> complicated. And very, very long. I actually used multiple tables to figure
> out the combinations needed to produce the output I wanted.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:38 AM Doug  wrote:
>
>> Things are getting complicated.
>>
>> I'm currently editing a chapter that is common to four books.  The books
>> are 40, 41, 42, and 44.  Some content isn't applicable to book 44, so I've
>> set up a condition tag named "Not 44".
>>
>> The problematic content sections use the tags (Not 44+PDF) and (Not
>> 44+HTML), since some content is PDF-only and other content is HTML only.
>> Needless to say, these bits of content are applicable to 40, 41, and 42
>> (but not 44).
>>
>> Is using "Not 44" a bad condition?  I feel it must be because when I Show
>> As Per Expression it shows both the  (Not 44+PDF) and (Not 44+HTML)
>> sections, I assume because the expression says in include "Not 44"
>> content.  It's as if the parentheses don't mean anything.
>>
>> Some content is unique to each book (4 condition possibilities)
>> Some is common to some books
>> Some is common to all books
>> Some is PDF
>> Some is HTML
>>
>> Ideas?  Thanks.
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
>> Archives located at
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>


-- 
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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread Lin Sims
Conditioning text works best if you keep it consistent: all of your
conditions should be constructed either for the information you DO want to
appear in a specific document or for information you DON'T want to appear
in a specific document. Making some conditions for information you want in
and some you want out is, as you're discovering, hard to work with,
especially when you have some of the conditions on a piece of information
are for showing and some are for hiding.

Over the years, I've found that it is far, far easier to tag for the
documents you want the information to be IN.

For example, in your case, if the information is only visible in 41, tag it
with 41 but not 40, 42, or 44. If it's visible in 40, 41, and 42 but not
44, tag it with 40, 41, and 42 but not 44. Yes, it seems like extra work,
but it produces consistent results.

You also have two output conditions, PDF or HTML. This is where things get
trickier and where expressions come into play because you have to carefully
describe the information you want to be visible when there are multiple
tags on the text. (The problem with using the Show/Hide panes is that if
you have multiple tags on the text, using the Show/Hide panes means that
the text will be visible if even one tag is in the Show pane.)

If you tag the way I suggest, I believe the following will work:

For Book 40, PDF: not (41 or 42 or 44 or HTML) and not (40 and HTML)
For Book 40, HTML: not (41 or 42 or 44 or PDF) and not (40 and PDF)

and repeat for each book.

One of these days, I ought to write up an article on complex conditional
expressions. At one point, I was handling a set of files with 10 different
outputs arising from 15 different conditions. The expressions were ...
complicated. And very, very long. I actually used multiple tables to figure
out the combinations needed to produce the output I wanted.


On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:38 AM Doug  wrote:

> Things are getting complicated.
>
> I'm currently editing a chapter that is common to four books.  The books
> are 40, 41, 42, and 44.  Some content isn't applicable to book 44, so I've
> set up a condition tag named "Not 44".
>
> The problematic content sections use the tags (Not 44+PDF) and (Not
> 44+HTML), since some content is PDF-only and other content is HTML only.
> Needless to say, these bits of content are applicable to 40, 41, and 42
> (but not 44).
>
> Is using "Not 44" a bad condition?  I feel it must be because when I Show
> As Per Expression it shows both the  (Not 44+PDF) and (Not 44+HTML)
> sections, I assume because the expression says in include "Not 44"
> content.  It's as if the parentheses don't mean anything.
>
> Some content is unique to each book (4 condition possibilities)
> Some is common to some books
> Some is common to all books
> Some is PDF
> Some is HTML
>
> Ideas?  Thanks.
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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>


-- 
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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread TW Smith
Nevermind. I misread.

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:38 AM Doug  wrote:

> Things are getting complicated.
>
> I'm currently editing a chapter that is common to four books.  The books
> are 40, 41, 42, and 44.  Some content isn't applicable to book 44, so I've
> set up a condition tag named "Not 44".
>
> The problematic content sections use the tags (Not 44+PDF) and (Not
> 44+HTML), since some content is PDF-only and other content is HTML only.
> Needless to say, these bits of content are applicable to 40, 41, and 42
> (but not 44).
>
> Is using "Not 44" a bad condition?  I feel it must be because when I Show
> As Per Expression it shows both the  (Not 44+PDF) and (Not 44+HTML)
> sections, I assume because the expression says in include "Not 44"
> content.  It's as if the parentheses don't mean anything.
>
> Some content is unique to each book (4 condition possibilities)
> Some is common to some books
> Some is common to all books
> Some is PDF
> Some is HTML
>
> Ideas?  Thanks.
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>
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Re: [Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread TW Smith
If the chapter isn't needed in the book, then exclude the chapter from the
book. No conditional tagging needed.

Sean

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:38 AM Doug  wrote:

> Things are getting complicated.
>
> I'm currently editing a chapter that is common to four books.  The books
> are 40, 41, 42, and 44.  Some content isn't applicable to book 44, so I've
> set up a condition tag named "Not 44".
>
> The problematic content sections use the tags (Not 44+PDF) and (Not
> 44+HTML), since some content is PDF-only and other content is HTML only.
> Needless to say, these bits of content are applicable to 40, 41, and 42
> (but not 44).
>
> Is using "Not 44" a bad condition?  I feel it must be because when I Show
> As Per Expression it shows both the  (Not 44+PDF) and (Not 44+HTML)
> sections, I assume because the expression says in include "Not 44"
> content.  It's as if the parentheses don't mean anything.
>
> Some content is unique to each book (4 condition possibilities)
> Some is common to some books
> Some is common to all books
> Some is PDF
> Some is HTML
>
> Ideas?  Thanks.
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[Framers] Condition expression for conditional text

2019-12-20 Thread Doug
Things are getting complicated.

I'm currently editing a chapter that is common to four books.  The books
are 40, 41, 42, and 44.  Some content isn't applicable to book 44, so I've
set up a condition tag named "Not 44".

The problematic content sections use the tags (Not 44+PDF) and (Not
44+HTML), since some content is PDF-only and other content is HTML only.
Needless to say, these bits of content are applicable to 40, 41, and 42
(but not 44).

Is using "Not 44" a bad condition?  I feel it must be because when I Show
As Per Expression it shows both the  (Not 44+PDF) and (Not 44+HTML)
sections, I assume because the expression says in include "Not 44"
content.  It's as if the parentheses don't mean anything.

Some content is unique to each book (4 condition possibilities)
Some is common to some books
Some is common to all books
Some is PDF
Some is HTML

Ideas?  Thanks.
___

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