Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Robert Lauriston]

In that situation, I'd just change the font to a similar-looking one
that was more readable. Marketing would probably never notice, and if
they did, I'd tell them I changed it in response to customer
complaints about readability.

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 6:53 AM, Tammy Van Boening
 wrote:
> That is it on the nose Tori. The curly quotes and the microns were also 
> driving my scientists batty using the marketing-dictated corporate font. The 
> majority of font did stay w/ the corporate font, but the slight few 
> substitutions were not different enough to cause consternation and by doing 
> so, the document was much smoother to read.
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Tammy Van Boening]

That is it on the nose Tori. The curly quotes and the microns were also driving 
my scientists batty using the marketing-dictated corporate font. The majority 
of font did stay w/ the corporate font, but the slight few substitutions were 
not different enough to cause consternation and by doing so, the document was 
much smoother to read.

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Victoria Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:28 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

I can't speak for Tammy's work environment, but I have worked on two manuals 
where the client OK'd replacing the quote marks and the microns, but the 
majority of the font needed to stay their corporate font – similar issues to 
her observation on the quotes, and the microns in this particular font looked 
like they are italic even when they aren't, which drove their scientists bats. 

Tori Muir
tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674www.spot-on-creative.com 
<http://www.spot-on-creative.com>

On 2/28/17, 11:02 AM, "Framers on behalf of Robert Lauriston" 
<framers-bounces+tmuir=spot-on-creative@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of 
rob...@lauriston.com> wrote:

You could, but why not just change the font?

And if you're not free to change the font, then why would you be free
to override individual glyphs?

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Victoria Muir
<tm...@spot-on-creative.com> wrote:
> Well.. as someone who functions primarily as a designer, this doesn't 
sound so crazy to me – some fonts have godawful quote marks. But couldn't they 
be replaced/have a  character style applied  at the last minute using a Grep 
search or something?
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at 
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at  
http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Victoria Muir]

I can't speak for Tammy's work environment, but I have worked on two manuals 
where the client OK'd replacing the quote marks and the microns, but the 
majority of the font needed to stay their corporate font – similar issues to 
her observation on the quotes, and the microns in this particular font looked 
like they are italic even when they aren't, which drove their scientists bats. 

Tori Muir
tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674www.spot-on-creative.com 


On 2/28/17, 11:02 AM, "Framers on behalf of Robert Lauriston" 
 wrote:

You could, but why not just change the font?

And if you're not free to change the font, then why would you be free
to override individual glyphs?

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Victoria Muir
 wrote:
> Well.. as someone who functions primarily as a designer, this doesn't 
sound so crazy to me – some fonts have godawful quote marks. But couldn't they 
be replaced/have a  character style applied  at the last minute using a Grep 
search or something?
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at 
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Robert Lauriston]

You could, but why not just change the font?

And if you're not free to change the font, then why would you be free
to override individual glyphs?

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Victoria Muir
 wrote:
> Well.. as someone who functions primarily as a designer, this doesn't sound 
> so crazy to me – some fonts have godawful quote marks. But couldn't they be 
> replaced/have a  character style applied  at the last minute using a Grep 
> search or something?
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Victoria Muir]

Well.. as someone who functions primarily as a designer, this doesn't sound so 
crazy to me – some fonts have godawful quote marks. But couldn't they be 
replaced/have a  character style applied  at the last minute using a Grep 
search or something? 

Tori Muir
tm...@spot-on-creative.com  

On 2/27/17, 5:40 PM, "Framers on behalf of Robert Lauriston" 
<framers-bounces+tmuir=spot-on-creative@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of 
rob...@lauriston.com> wrote:

As Heiko pointed out, you're actually getting curly quotes, you just
don't like the subtle way the font designer drew them.

I'd live with it or change fonts. Overriding certain glyphs with
another font is crazy.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Tammy Van Boening
<tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
> Well, that's just flat out useless - OK, guess I will just have to copy 
and
> paste the curly quotes from the body font and different fonts be d***d. . 
.
>
> Thanks Robert.
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Owner/Principal
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers
> 
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:12 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum
>
> Looks like that's how Avenier Next LT is designed. 201c and 201d use the
> same glyph.
>
> https://www.linotype.com/1129827/avenir-next-light-product.html
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Tammy Van Boening
> <tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
>> FM 10, Win 7, AvenirNext LT Pro font for Table Body and Sans Pro
>> Source for text body. (Required by the client).
>>
>> For Table Body:
>> I can get straight double quotes inserted just fine, but I want curly
>> quotes. With  Smart Quotes turned off, I am trying to insert curly
>> double quotes in the file. For the left curly double quote, I use the
>> command of
>> CTRL+q R and the quote is double, but it is still facing the wrong
>> CTRL+direction
>> - it looks like a right curly double quote. For the right curly double
>> quote, I use the command of CTRL+q S and that appears just fine.  So,
>> I tried with Smart Quotes turned on just and no go. . . the same result.
>>
>> FWIW, when using the Sans Pro Source font , with Smart Quotes turned
>> on, I can get proper facing curly quotes no problem.
>>
>> Why would the font make a difference and any advice about getting
>> curly quotes to work with the required Table Font would be sincerely
> appreciated.
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at 
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com



___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Robert Lauriston]

As Heiko pointed out, you're actually getting curly quotes, you just
don't like the subtle way the font designer drew them.

I'd live with it or change fonts. Overriding certain glyphs with
another font is crazy.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Tammy Van Boening
<tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
> Well, that's just flat out useless - OK, guess I will just have to copy and
> paste the curly quotes from the body font and different fonts be d***d. . .
>
> Thanks Robert.
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Owner/Principal
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers
> [mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:12 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum
>
> Looks like that's how Avenier Next LT is designed. 201c and 201d use the
> same glyph.
>
> https://www.linotype.com/1129827/avenir-next-light-product.html
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Tammy Van Boening
> <tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
>> FM 10, Win 7, AvenirNext LT Pro font for Table Body and Sans Pro
>> Source for text body. (Required by the client).
>>
>> For Table Body:
>> I can get straight double quotes inserted just fine, but I want curly
>> quotes. With  Smart Quotes turned off, I am trying to insert curly
>> double quotes in the file. For the left curly double quote, I use the
>> command of
>> CTRL+q R and the quote is double, but it is still facing the wrong
>> CTRL+direction
>> - it looks like a right curly double quote. For the right curly double
>> quote, I use the command of CTRL+q S and that appears just fine.  So,
>> I tried with Smart Quotes turned on just and no go. . . the same result.
>>
>> FWIW, when using the Sans Pro Source font , with Smart Quotes turned
>> on, I can get proper facing curly quotes no problem.
>>
>> Why would the font make a difference and any advice about getting
>> curly quotes to work with the required Table Font would be sincerely
> appreciated.
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Tammy Van Boening]

Well, that's just flat out useless - OK, guess I will just have to copy and
paste the curly quotes from the body font and different fonts be d***d. . . 

Thanks Robert.

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com
-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:12 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

Looks like that's how Avenier Next LT is designed. 201c and 201d use the
same glyph.

https://www.linotype.com/1129827/avenir-next-light-product.html

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Tammy Van Boening
<tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
> FM 10, Win 7, AvenirNext LT Pro font for Table Body and Sans Pro 
> Source for text body. (Required by the client).
>
> For Table Body:
> I can get straight double quotes inserted just fine, but I want curly 
> quotes. With  Smart Quotes turned off, I am trying to insert curly 
> double quotes in the file. For the left curly double quote, I use the 
> command of
> CTRL+q R and the quote is double, but it is still facing the wrong 
> CTRL+direction
> - it looks like a right curly double quote. For the right curly double 
> quote, I use the command of CTRL+q S and that appears just fine.  So, 
> I tried with Smart Quotes turned on just and no go. . . the same result.
>
> FWIW, when using the Sans Pro Source font , with Smart Quotes turned 
> on, I can get proper facing curly quotes no problem.
>
> Why would the font make a difference and any advice about getting 
> curly quotes to work with the required Table Font would be sincerely
appreciated.
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Heiko Haida]

Hi Robert, hi Tammy, 

the two glyphs are quite similar, but not the same. The left double
quote is a little thicker at the bottom (66), the right double quote is
a little thicker at the top (99). Both glyphs in Avenir are pointing
from down left to up right, so they look very much alike. There is
nothing else we could do with this font given. 

Of course the glyphs of the Source Sans are very "curly" in comparison. 

Best regards -- Tino H. Haida 

Robert Lauriston:

> Looks like that's how Avenier Next LT is designed. 201c and 201d use
> the same glyph.
> 
> https://www.linotype.com/1129827/avenir-next-light-product.html
> 
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Tammy Van Boening
>  wrote: 
> 
>> FM 10, Win 7, AvenirNext LT Pro font for Table Body and Sans Pro Source for
>> text body. (Required by the client).
>> 
>> For Table Body:
>> I can get straight double quotes inserted just fine, but I want curly
>> quotes. With  Smart Quotes turned off, I am trying to insert curly double
>> quotes in the file. For the left curly double quote, I use the command of
>> CTRL+q R and the quote is double, but it is still facing the wrong direction
>> - it looks like a right curly double quote. For the right curly double
>> quote, I use the command of CTRL+q S and that appears just fine.  So, I
>> tried with Smart Quotes turned on just and no go. . . the same result.
>> 
>> FWIW, when using the Sans Pro Source font , with Smart Quotes turned on, I
>> can get proper facing curly quotes no problem.
>> 
>> Why would the font make a difference and any advice about getting curly
>> quotes to work with the required Table Font would be sincerely appreciated.
> ___
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Robert Lauriston]

Looks like that's how Avenier Next LT is designed. 201c and 201d use
the same glyph.

https://www.linotype.com/1129827/avenir-next-light-product.html

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Tammy Van Boening
 wrote:
> FM 10, Win 7, AvenirNext LT Pro font for Table Body and Sans Pro Source for
> text body. (Required by the client).
>
> For Table Body:
> I can get straight double quotes inserted just fine, but I want curly
> quotes. With  Smart Quotes turned off, I am trying to insert curly double
> quotes in the file. For the left curly double quote, I use the command of
> CTRL+q R and the quote is double, but it is still facing the wrong direction
> - it looks like a right curly double quote. For the right curly double
> quote, I use the command of CTRL+q S and that appears just fine.  So, I
> tried with Smart Quotes turned on just and no go. . . the same result.
>
> FWIW, when using the Sans Pro Source font , with Smart Quotes turned on, I
> can get proper facing curly quotes no problem.
>
> Why would the font make a difference and any advice about getting curly
> quotes to work with the required Table Font would be sincerely appreciated.
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

[Framers] Curly Quote conundrum

[Tammy Van Boening]

FM 10, Win 7, AvenirNext LT Pro font for Table Body and Sans Pro Source for
text body. (Required by the client).

For Table Body:
I can get straight double quotes inserted just fine, but I want curly
quotes. With  Smart Quotes turned off, I am trying to insert curly double
quotes in the file. For the left curly double quote, I use the command of
CTRL+q R and the quote is double, but it is still facing the wrong direction
- it looks like a right curly double quote. For the right curly double
quote, I use the command of CTRL+q S and that appears just fine.  So, I
tried with Smart Quotes turned on just and no go. . . the same result.

FWIW, when using the Sans Pro Source font , with Smart Quotes turned on, I
can get proper facing curly quotes no problem.

Why would the font make a difference and any advice about getting curly
quotes to work with the required Table Font would be sincerely appreciated.



Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com