Re: [Framers] FrameMaker vs Flare
The $360-per-year FrameMaker subscription includes upgrades, so that's significantly cheaper than Flare. On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Robert Lauriston wrote: > Comparing Flare and standalone FrameMaker, HTML output is more customizable > and it's probably a better single-sourcing tool, except as regards PDF > targets. > > Comparing Flare and FrameMaker plus RoboHelp or WebWorks ePublisher Pro, > hard to say. I'd probably take unstructured FrameMaker and WebWorks over > Flare if I had to choose. > > The learning curve for FrameMaker is plenty steep if you've never used it > before. > > Flare is $1648 with a year of email support and upgrades. You can add a year > of support and upgrades for $400 or two years for $325 each. If you let your > support expire, upgrades are $799, which I believe includes a year of > support and upgrades. > > FrameMaker is $999 perpetual or $360 a year for a subscription that includes > upgrades. Are upgrades included in the subscription price or do you have to > pay for them? > > A FrameMaker perpetual license seems like a bad deal since Adobe now > supports only the current version. In the long run, it would be cheaper to > subscribe. > > On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:53 AM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: >> >> It seems that the benefits of Flare over Frame are: >> - More customizable/better HTML output >> - Better support >> - Better single sourcing than unstructured Frame >> - They don't charge an arm and a leg to pay for upgrades >> >> The benefits of Frame over Flare are: >> - Better PDFs >> - Less of learning curve for unstructured Frame, and possibly for >> structured Frame >> >> I don't believe that Adobe has abandoned Frame, but they do charge an >> insane amount for upgrades and the support is not so great, which is similar >> to abandoning their users. Having said that, since I mainly produce PDFs, I >> have no plans on switching to Flare any time soon. >> >> -- >> Shmuel Wolfson >> Technical Writer >> 058-763-7133 >> >> >> On 27-Jun-18 7:59 AM, Alan Litchfield wrote: >>> >>> I don't think the issue in this conversation is about Adobe abandoning >>> FM, but that the corporate model Adobe chooses to use has effectively driven >>> a lot of us old timers out the door, into the arms of its competitors. Yes, >>> there have been a bunch of new features and added support for functions that >>> required external plug-in support previously, but the interface is actually >>> quite hard for me to navigate now, especially now that so many keyboard >>> commands have disappeared or changed. >>> >>> For me, my last favourite version was 7.2 on the Mac (which I still have >>> running by the way, on a G5 tower). Sure it lacked all the fancy mod-cons of >>> later versions but I could run that application for months at a time >>> (without shutting down the computer or program) without issue. Can't say the >>> same for the current version, I'm afraid. And as I said earlier, part of the >>> reason was being locked out of the application due to licensing problems. >>> >>> Version 5.5.2 on Linux was fun while it lasted. Of course, one does miss >>> the hominess of Frame Corp, but that was a long time ago now. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> -- >>> Dr Alan Litchfield >>> AlphaByte >>> PO Box 1941 >>> Auckland, New Zealand 1140 >>> >>> On 27/06/18 13:42, ideasli...@ideastraining.com wrote: I've been hearing rumors of Adobe's abandonment of Frame for years, if not decades. The timing of these rumors is almost as regular as an atomic clock... Abandonment hasn't happened yet. Oddly, I find the rumors tend to peak before Adobe announces a new version. This list, or any public list, is not a good way to make a decision about FrameMaker. Those that know can't say; those that say usually don't know. David Creamer IDEAS Training __ All of these posts regarding Adobe's poor support/abandonment of FM are one of the reasons why my company decided to focus on another tool and migrate away from FM. All of the technical publications staff (including me) are now using Madcap Flare and we have just completed a 2 year migration of all FM documents into Flare. It was a bit sad to say goodbye to FM, but the handwriting was on the wall. ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com >>> ___ >>> >>> This message is from the Framers mailing list >>> >>> Send messages to
Re: [Framers] FrameMaker vs Flare
Comparing Flare and standalone FrameMaker, HTML output is more customizable and it's probably a better single-sourcing tool, except as regards PDF targets. Comparing Flare and FrameMaker plus RoboHelp or WebWorks ePublisher Pro, hard to say. I'd probably take unstructured FrameMaker and WebWorks over Flare if I had to choose. The learning curve for FrameMaker is plenty steep if you've never used it before. Flare is $1648 with a year of email support and upgrades. You can add a year of support and upgrades for $400 or two years for $325 each. If you let your support expire, upgrades are $799, which I believe includes a year of support and upgrades. FrameMaker is $999 perpetual or $360 a year for a subscription that includes upgrades. Are upgrades included in the subscription price or do you have to pay for them? A FrameMaker perpetual license seems like a bad deal since Adobe now supports only the current version. In the long run, it would be cheaper to subscribe. On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:53 AM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: > It seems that the benefits of Flare over Frame are: > - More customizable/better HTML output > - Better support > - Better single sourcing than unstructured Frame > - They don't charge an arm and a leg to pay for upgrades > > The benefits of Frame over Flare are: > - Better PDFs > - Less of learning curve for unstructured Frame, and possibly for > structured Frame > > I don't believe that Adobe has abandoned Frame, but they do charge an > insane amount for upgrades and the support is not so great, which is > similar to abandoning their users. Having said that, since I mainly produce > PDFs, I have no plans on switching to Flare any time soon. > > -- > Shmuel Wolfson > Technical Writer > 058-763-7133 > > > On 27-Jun-18 7:59 AM, Alan Litchfield wrote: > >> I don't think the issue in this conversation is about Adobe abandoning >> FM, but that the corporate model Adobe chooses to use has effectively >> driven a lot of us old timers out the door, into the arms of its >> competitors. Yes, there have been a bunch of new features and added support >> for functions that required external plug-in support previously, but the >> interface is actually quite hard for me to navigate now, especially now >> that so many keyboard commands have disappeared or changed. >> >> For me, my last favourite version was 7.2 on the Mac (which I still have >> running by the way, on a G5 tower). Sure it lacked all the fancy mod-cons >> of later versions but I could run that application for months at a time >> (without shutting down the computer or program) without issue. Can't say >> the same for the current version, I'm afraid. And as I said earlier, part >> of the reason was being locked out of the application due to licensing >> problems. >> >> Version 5.5.2 on Linux was fun while it lasted. Of course, one does miss >> the hominess of Frame Corp, but that was a long time ago now. >> >> Alan >> >> -- >> Dr Alan Litchfield >> AlphaByte >> PO Box 1941 >> Auckland, New Zealand 1140 >> >> On 27/06/18 13:42, ideasli...@ideastraining.com wrote: >> >>> I've been hearing rumors of Adobe's abandonment of Frame for years, if >>> not >>> decades. The timing of these rumors is almost as regular as an atomic >>> clock... >>> >>> Abandonment hasn't happened yet. Oddly, I find the rumors tend to peak >>> before Adobe announces a new version. This list, or any public list, is >>> not >>> a good way to make a decision about FrameMaker. Those that know can't >>> say; >>> those that say usually don't know. >>> >>> David Creamer >>> IDEAS Training >>> __ >>> All of these posts regarding Adobe's poor support/abandonment of FM are >>> one >>> of the reasons why my company decided to focus on another tool and >>> migrate >>> away from FM. All of the technical publications staff (including me) are >>> now using Madcap Flare and we have just completed a 2 year migration of >>> all >>> FM documents into Flare. It was a bit sad to say goodbye to FM, but the >>> handwriting was on the wall. >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> This message is from the Framers mailing list >>> >>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com >>> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com >>> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/fr >>> amers%40lists.frameusers.com/ >>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/li >>> stinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com >>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com >>> >>> ___ >> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list >> >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com >> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com >> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/fr >> amers%40lists.frameusers.com/ >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/li >> stinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] FrameMaker vs Flare
It seems that the benefits of Flare over Frame are: - More customizable/better HTML output - Better support - Better single sourcing than unstructured Frame - They don't charge an arm and a leg to pay for upgrades The benefits of Frame over Flare are: - Better PDFs - Less of learning curve for unstructured Frame, and possibly for structured Frame I don't believe that Adobe has abandoned Frame, but they do charge an insane amount for upgrades and the support is not so great, which is similar to abandoning their users. Having said that, since I mainly produce PDFs, I have no plans on switching to Flare any time soon. -- Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 058-763-7133 On 27-Jun-18 7:59 AM, Alan Litchfield wrote: I don't think the issue in this conversation is about Adobe abandoning FM, but that the corporate model Adobe chooses to use has effectively driven a lot of us old timers out the door, into the arms of its competitors. Yes, there have been a bunch of new features and added support for functions that required external plug-in support previously, but the interface is actually quite hard for me to navigate now, especially now that so many keyboard commands have disappeared or changed. For me, my last favourite version was 7.2 on the Mac (which I still have running by the way, on a G5 tower). Sure it lacked all the fancy mod-cons of later versions but I could run that application for months at a time (without shutting down the computer or program) without issue. Can't say the same for the current version, I'm afraid. And as I said earlier, part of the reason was being locked out of the application due to licensing problems. Version 5.5.2 on Linux was fun while it lasted. Of course, one does miss the hominess of Frame Corp, but that was a long time ago now. Alan -- Dr Alan Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 1941 Auckland, New Zealand 1140 On 27/06/18 13:42, ideasli...@ideastraining.com wrote: I've been hearing rumors of Adobe's abandonment of Frame for years, if not decades. The timing of these rumors is almost as regular as an atomic clock... Abandonment hasn't happened yet. Oddly, I find the rumors tend to peak before Adobe announces a new version. This list, or any public list, is not a good way to make a decision about FrameMaker. Those that know can't say; those that say usually don't know. David Creamer IDEAS Training __ All of these posts regarding Adobe's poor support/abandonment of FM are one of the reasons why my company decided to focus on another tool and migrate away from FM. All of the technical publications staff (including me) are now using Madcap Flare and we have just completed a 2 year migration of all FM documents into Flare. It was a bit sad to say goodbye to FM, but the handwriting was on the wall. ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
