RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi Steve,

I do not use XML yet. Therefore I may be wrong. Please
correct me, if this is not correct! My understanding is 
this:

o Of course the translation memory system can import
  XML as easily as FrameMaker. Some systems charge
  additionally for a FrameMaker filter. Or XML (depending
  on the EDD/DTT) might need a special definition in the
  translation memory system to identify the part which
  needs to be translated (e.g. attributes).

o When you give XML files to a translation agency, the
  resulting translation memory could be re-used with
  other translation memory systems (via TMX) better
  than when you use FrameMaker files. FrameMaker files
  contains lots of information which is handled differently
  than XML.
  Therefore the number of pretranslated segments and fuzzy-
  matches would increase, _if_ you switch the system.
  (That's just an assumption. This could be wrong.)

o Translation cost saving calculations with XML are mostly 
  based on chunking.
  That means only those chunks are translated which are
  actually changed. As DITA is supposed to split a FrameMaker
  file into more XML files as compared to a regular FM file,
  the files to be translated are smaller. This might save 
  money.
  However, I could also use FrameMaker insets to have
  smaller files.
  Additionally, make sure that you will be notified of
  terminology changes. Such changes must also be done
  in already translated files.

o When you use XML as your primary storage format, infos
  like table column widths or graphics scaling get lost.
  I want to have this information present after translation.
  Therefore I would prefer to use structured FrameMaker and 
  not XML. But that's my oppinion.
  (Possibly FrameMaker does store such information in
  processing instructions. Or someone wrote a plug-in
  for this. I do not know.)

Best regards

Winfried

 -Original Message-
 From: Steve Johnson [mailto:chinask...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:27 AM
 To: Reng, Dr. Winfried
 Cc: FrameMaker Forum
 Subject: Re: Frame's File Comparison Feature
 
 Can't translation vendors do memory diffs just as easily on Frame
 files vs. XML files?
 
 I don't see the advantage there.
 
 On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Reng, Dr. Winfried 
 wr...@tycoint.com wrote:
  Hi,
 
  What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary
  nor desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a
  translation memory (and you should request a copy of it,
  since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this
  vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage).
 
  When you send an updated set of files for a book that's
  already been translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will
  match the translation memory. Only the portions that are new
  or changed need to be translated.
 
  If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new
  one. If it is using translation memory, there's no point in
  you trying to dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain
  nothing and risk all kinds of problems.
 
  Of course almost all translation agencies use a translation memory
  system nowadays.
 
  If the vendor uses a translation memory system, such a system can
  easily check the number of non-translated segments (a segment is a
  translation unit) and segments which can be pretranslated or
  translated with the help of fuzzy-matches.
  However, the vendor will still charge for pretranslated segments.
  The reason is that often the terminology must be changed with
  new text. Or references to a previous segment will not be correct
  any longer, because e.g. you inserted another segment. The reference
  may still be correct in English but not in a foreign language.
  The costs per pretranslated segment depend on your vendor, mostly
  around 25 % of non-translated segments.
 
  Best regards
 
  Winfried
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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Kevin Farwell]

 
represents a fat savings. However, the smaller the translation cost 
saving chunks the harder the localization cost increasing publishing, 
no matter the source format or the automation involved. A balance 
must be struck. If your vendor manages the publishing process, the 
balance shifts a bit toward simplicity.





o When you use XML as your primary storage format, infos
  like table column widths or graphics scaling get lost.
  I want to have this information present after translation.
  Therefore I would prefer to use structured FrameMaker and
  not XML. But that's my oppinion.
  (Possibly FrameMaker does store such information in
  processing instructions. Or someone wrote a plug-in
  for this. I do not know.)


Table widths and graphic scaling can be stored in XML, depending on 
the content model being used. CALS tables store column widths quite 
nicely, and it's incorporated into most XML models (it's a wheel to 
scary to reinvent).





Best regards

Winfried


 -Original Message-
 From: Steve Johnson [mailto:chinask...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:27 AM
 To: Reng, Dr. Winfried
 Cc: FrameMaker Forum
 Subject: Re: Frame's File Comparison Feature

 Can't translation vendors do memory diffs just as easily on Frame
 files vs. XML files?

 I don't see the advantage there.

 On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Reng, Dr. Winfried
 wr...@tycoint.com wrote:
  Hi,
 
  What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary
  nor desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a
  translation memory (and you should request a copy of it,
  since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this
  vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage).
 
  When you send an updated set of files for a book that's
  already been translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will
  match the translation memory. Only the portions that are new
  or changed need to be translated.
 
  If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new
  one. If it is using translation memory, there's no point in
  you trying to dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain
  nothing and risk all kinds of problems.
 
  Of course almost all translation agencies use a translation memory
  system nowadays.
 
  If the vendor uses a translation memory system, such a system can
  easily check the number of non-translated segments (a segment is a
  translation unit) and segments which can be pretranslated or
  translated with the help of fuzzy-matches.
  However, the vendor will still charge for pretranslated segments.
  The reason is that often the terminology must be changed with
  new text. Or references to a previous segment will not be correct
  any longer, because e.g. you inserted another segment. The reference
  may still be correct in English but not in a foreign language.
  The costs per pretranslated segment depend on your vendor, mostly
  around 25 % of non-translated segments.
 
  Best regards
 
  Winfried

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Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi Steve,

I do not use XML yet. Therefore I may be wrong. Please
correct me, if this is not correct! My understanding is 
this:

o Of course the translation memory system can import
  XML as easily as FrameMaker. Some systems charge
  additionally for a FrameMaker filter. Or XML (depending
  on the EDD/DTT) might need a special definition in the
  translation memory system to identify the part which
  needs to be translated (e.g. attributes).

o When you give XML files to a translation agency, the
  resulting translation memory could be re-used with
  other translation memory systems (via TMX) better
  than when you use FrameMaker files. FrameMaker files
  contains lots of information which is handled differently
  than XML.
  Therefore the number of pretranslated segments and fuzzy-
  matches would increase, _if_ you switch the system.
  (That's just an assumption. This could be wrong.)

o Translation cost saving calculations with XML are mostly 
  based on chunking.
  That means only those chunks are translated which are
  actually changed. As DITA is supposed to split a FrameMaker
  file into more XML files as compared to a regular FM file,
  the files to be translated are smaller. This might save 
  money.
  However, I could also use FrameMaker insets to have
  smaller files.
  Additionally, make sure that you will be notified of
  terminology changes. Such changes must also be done
  in already translated files.

o When you use XML as your primary storage format, infos
  like table column widths or graphics scaling get lost.
  I want to have this information present after translation.
  Therefore I would prefer to use structured FrameMaker and 
  not XML. But that's my oppinion.
  (Possibly FrameMaker does store such information in
  processing instructions. Or someone wrote a plug-in
  for this. I do not know.)

Best regards

Winfried

> -Original Message-
> From: Steve Johnson [mailto:chinaski69 at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:27 AM
> To: Reng, Dr. Winfried
> Cc: FrameMaker Forum
> Subject: Re: Frame's File Comparison Feature
> 
> Can't translation vendors do memory diffs just as easily on Frame
> files vs. XML files?
> 
> I don't see the advantage there.
> 
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Reng, Dr. Winfried 
>  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >> What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary
> >> nor desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a
> >> translation memory (and you should request a copy of it,
> >> since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this
> >> vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage).
> >>
> >> When you send an updated set of files for a book that's
> >> already been translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will
> >> match the translation memory. Only the portions that are new
> >> or changed need to be translated.
> >>
> >> If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new
> >> one. If it is using translation memory, there's no point in
> >> you trying to dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain
> >> nothing and risk all kinds of problems.
> >
> > Of course almost all translation agencies use a translation memory
> > system nowadays.
> >
> > If the vendor uses a translation memory system, such a system can
> > easily check the number of non-translated segments (a segment is a
> > translation unit) and segments which can be pretranslated or
> > translated with the help of fuzzy-matches.
> > However, the vendor will still charge for pretranslated segments.
> > The reason is that often the terminology must be changed with
> > new text. Or references to a previous segment will not be correct
> > any longer, because e.g. you inserted another segment. The reference
> > may still be correct in English but not in a foreign language.
> > The costs per pretranslated segment depend on your vendor, mostly
> > around 25 % of non-translated segments.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Winfried

Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Kevin Farwell]

sons not to move to XML.

Translation cost is the main part of localization, but keep 
formatting in mind. Automated formatting with XML tools also 
represents a fat savings. However, the smaller the translation cost 
saving chunks the harder the localization cost increasing publishing, 
no matter the source format or the automation involved. A balance 
must be struck. If your vendor manages the publishing process, the 
balance shifts a bit toward simplicity.

>
>
>o When you use XML as your primary storage format, infos
>   like table column widths or graphics scaling get lost.
>   I want to have this information present after translation.
>   Therefore I would prefer to use structured FrameMaker and
>   not XML. But that's my oppinion.
>   (Possibly FrameMaker does store such information in
>   processing instructions. Or someone wrote a plug-in
>   for this. I do not know.)

Table widths and graphic scaling can be stored in XML, depending on 
the content model being used. CALS tables store column widths quite 
nicely, and it's incorporated into most XML models (it's a wheel to 
scary to reinvent).


>
>Best regards
>
>Winfried
>
>>  -Original Message-
>>  From: Steve Johnson [mailto:chinaski69 at gmail.com]
>>  Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:27 AM
>>  To: Reng, Dr. Winfried
>>  Cc: FrameMaker Forum
>>  Subject: Re: Frame's File Comparison Feature
>>
>>  Can't translation vendors do memory diffs just as easily on Frame
>>  files vs. XML files?
>>
>>  I don't see the advantage there.
>>
>>  On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Reng, Dr. Winfried
>>   wrote:
>>  > Hi,
>>  >
>>  >> What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary
>>  >> nor desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a
>>  >> translation memory (and you should request a copy of it,
>>  >> since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this
>>  >> vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage).
>>  >>
>>  >> When you send an updated set of files for a book that's
>>  >> already been translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will
>>  >> match the translation memory. Only the portions that are new
>>  >> or changed need to be translated.
>>  >>
>>  >> If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new
>>  >> one. If it is using translation memory, there's no point in
>>  >> you trying to dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain
>>  >> nothing and risk all kinds of problems.
>>  >
>>  > Of course almost all translation agencies use a translation memory
>>  > system nowadays.
>>  >
>>  > If the vendor uses a translation memory system, such a system can
>>  > easily check the number of non-translated segments (a segment is a
>>  > translation unit) and segments which can be pretranslated or
>>  > translated with the help of fuzzy-matches.
>>  > However, the vendor will still charge for pretranslated segments.
>>  > The reason is that often the terminology must be changed with
>>  > new text. Or references to a previous segment will not be correct
>>  > any longer, because e.g. you inserted another segment. The reference
>>  > may still be correct in English but not in a foreign language.
>>  > The costs per pretranslated segment depend on your vendor, mostly
>>  > around 25 % of non-translated segments.
>>  >
>>  > Best regards
>>  >
>>  > Winfried
>___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to framers as kevinf at dim.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
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>
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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi,

 What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary 
 nor desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a 
 translation memory (and you should request a copy of it, 
 since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this 
 vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage). 
 
 When you send an updated set of files for a book that's 
 already been translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will 
 match the translation memory. Only the portions that are new 
 or changed need to be translated. 
 
 If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new 
 one. If it is using translation memory, there's no point in 
 you trying to dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain 
 nothing and risk all kinds of problems. 

Of course almost all translation agencies use a translation memory
system nowadays.

If the vendor uses a translation memory system, such a system can 
easily check the number of non-translated segments (a segment is a
translation unit) and segments which can be pretranslated or 
translated with the help of fuzzy-matches.
However, the vendor will still charge for pretranslated segments.
The reason is that often the terminology must be changed with
new text. Or references to a previous segment will not be correct
any longer, because e.g. you inserted another segment. The reference
may still be correct in English but not in a foreign language.
The costs per pretranslated segment depend on your vendor, mostly
around 25 % of non-translated segments.

Best regards

Winfried
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Re: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Steve Johnson]

Can't translation vendors do memory diffs just as easily on Frame
files vs. XML files?

I don't see the advantage there.

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Reng, Dr. Winfried wr...@tycoint.com wrote:
 Hi,

 What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary
 nor desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a
 translation memory (and you should request a copy of it,
 since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this
 vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage).

 When you send an updated set of files for a book that's
 already been translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will
 match the translation memory. Only the portions that are new
 or changed need to be translated.

 If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new
 one. If it is using translation memory, there's no point in
 you trying to dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain
 nothing and risk all kinds of problems.

 Of course almost all translation agencies use a translation memory
 system nowadays.

 If the vendor uses a translation memory system, such a system can
 easily check the number of non-translated segments (a segment is a
 translation unit) and segments which can be pretranslated or
 translated with the help of fuzzy-matches.
 However, the vendor will still charge for pretranslated segments.
 The reason is that often the terminology must be changed with
 new text. Or references to a previous segment will not be correct
 any longer, because e.g. you inserted another segment. The reference
 may still be correct in English but not in a foreign language.
 The costs per pretranslated segment depend on your vendor, mostly
 around 25 % of non-translated segments.

 Best regards

 Winfried
 ___


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Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi,

> What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary 
> nor desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a 
> translation memory (and you should request a copy of it, 
> since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this 
> vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage). 
> 
> When you send an updated set of files for a book that's 
> already been translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will 
> match the translation memory. Only the portions that are new 
> or changed need to be translated. 
> 
> If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new 
> one. If it is using translation memory, there's no point in 
> you trying to dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain 
> nothing and risk all kinds of problems. 

Of course almost all translation agencies use a translation memory
system nowadays.

If the vendor uses a translation memory system, such a system can 
easily check the number of non-translated segments (a segment is a
translation unit) and segments which can be pretranslated or 
translated with the help of fuzzy-matches.
However, the vendor will still charge for pretranslated segments.
The reason is that often the terminology must be changed with
new text. Or references to a previous segment will not be correct
any longer, because e.g. you inserted another segment. The reference
may still be correct in English but not in a foreign language.
The costs per pretranslated segment depend on your vendor, mostly
around 25 % of non-translated segments.

Best regards

Winfried

Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Steve Johnson]

Can't translation vendors do memory diffs just as easily on Frame
files vs. XML files?

I don't see the advantage there.

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Reng, Dr. Winfried  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary
>> nor desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a
>> translation memory (and you should request a copy of it,
>> since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this
>> vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage).
>>
>> When you send an updated set of files for a book that's
>> already been translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will
>> match the translation memory. Only the portions that are new
>> or changed need to be translated.
>>
>> If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new
>> one. If it is using translation memory, there's no point in
>> you trying to dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain
>> nothing and risk all kinds of problems.
>
> Of course almost all translation agencies use a translation memory
> system nowadays.
>
> If the vendor uses a translation memory system, such a system can
> easily check the number of non-translated segments (a segment is a
> translation unit) and segments which can be pretranslated or
> translated with the help of fuzzy-matches.
> However, the vendor will still charge for pretranslated segments.
> The reason is that often the terminology must be changed with
> new text. Or references to a previous segment will not be correct
> any longer, because e.g. you inserted another segment. The reference
> may still be correct in English but not in a foreign language.
> The costs per pretranslated segment depend on your vendor, mostly
> around 25 % of non-translated segments.
>
> Best regards
>
> Winfried
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>



-- 

Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com

Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Alison Craig]

Version: FM9 (9.0p237)
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 11 months
Tech Comm Experience: 15 years
Trans/Localization Experience: 10 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)

We translate our manuals and I am constantly trying to find ways to trim 
translation costs (depending on the language and frequency of translation 
updates, it runs from $5,000 to $11,000 to translate a manual). As we are a 
Medical Device company, translation is mandated so it's something we just have 
live with.

In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison ability 
to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame newbie, I 
wondered if anyone could give me more information about this feature? Can it be 
used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the Language Service 
Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?

FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame (and 
Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a project 
management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have never worked 
with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).

Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this 
feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only 
cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then put 
the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I know I 
could swing the purchase of new tools.

Any help would appreciated,

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.commailto:alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com


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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Jeff Coatsworth]

First I would get your copy of FM9 patched - currently it's at p250.
Next I would look at moving to structured FM - translation costs are the 
biggest argument I've ever seen for making the case to move to a structured 
environment.
If you can't afford the time to do that, are there significant parts of your 
documentation that have already been translated and don't change? If so, then 
you could certainly cut down on your costs by only getting the chunks that have 
changed translated. That means breaking stuff up into pseudo-structured bits 
- lots of smaller topics or text insets, but not full structured FM.

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:49 PM
To: 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Version: FM9 (9.0p237)
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 11 months
Tech Comm Experience: 15 years
Trans/Localization Experience: 10 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)

We translate our manuals and I am constantly trying to find ways to trim 
translation costs (depending on the language and frequency of translation 
updates, it runs from $5,000 to $11,000 to translate a manual). As we are a 
Medical Device company, translation is mandated so it's something we just have 
live with.

In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison ability 
to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame newbie, I 
wondered if anyone could give me more information about this feature? Can it be 
used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the Language Service 
Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?

FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame (and 
Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a project 
management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have never worked 
with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).

Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this 
feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only 
cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then put 
the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I know I 
could swing the purchase of new tools.

Any help would appreciated,

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.commailto:alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com


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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Combs, Richard]

Alison Craig wrote: 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM
 
 In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison
 ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame
 newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this
 feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the
 Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
 
 FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame
 (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a
 project management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have
 never worked with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).
 
 Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this
 feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only
 cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then
 put the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I
 know I could swing the purchase of new tools.

What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor desirable. Your 
translation vendor should be using a translation memory (and you should request 
a copy of it, since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this 
vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage). 

When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been translated 
once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the translation memory. Only the 
portions that are new or changed need to be translated. 

If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it is using 
translation memory, there's no point in you trying to dissect files and 
reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all kinds of problems. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Alison Craig]

I hadn't applied the last Frame patch as everything was working well for me and 
my projects have been pretty non-stop.

It's on my list when I have a little down time.

Studying Structured Frame is currently at the top of my list (I've exchanged 
some e-mails on the List that very topic over the last couple of weeks). I 
guess I'll have to move that project along a little faster.

Alison
 
Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:56 AM
To: 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

First I would get your copy of FM9 patched - currently it's at p250.
Next I would look at moving to structured FM - translation costs are the 
biggest argument I've ever seen for making the case to move to a structured 
environment.
If you can't afford the time to do that, are there significant parts of your 
documentation that have already been translated and don't change? If so, then 
you could certainly cut down on your costs by only getting the chunks that have 
changed translated. That means breaking stuff up into pseudo-structured bits 
- lots of smaller topics or text insets, but not full structured FM.

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:49 PM
To: 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Version: FM9 (9.0p237)
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 11 months
Tech Comm Experience: 15 years
Trans/Localization Experience: 10 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)

We translate our manuals and I am constantly trying to find ways to trim 
translation costs (depending on the language and frequency of translation 
updates, it runs from $5,000 to $11,000 to translate a manual). As we are a 
Medical Device company, translation is mandated so it's something we just have 
live with.

In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison ability 
to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame newbie, I 
wondered if anyone could give me more information about this feature? Can it be 
used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the Language Service 
Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?

FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame (and 
Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a project 
management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have never worked 
with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).

Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this 
feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only 
cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then put 
the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I know I 
could swing the purchase of new tools.

Any help would appreciated,

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.commailto:alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com


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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Alison Craig]

Richard:

Someone else who replied off-list made the same observation - and we do have a 
TM for each language. I can also get a copy simply by asking.

I was hoping for an additional (easy and reliable) method to speed up the 
process and cut down on costs.

Looks like I'm out of luck on this one.

Alison

 
Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:17 PM
To: Alison Craig; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Alison Craig wrote: 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM
 
 In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison
 ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame
 newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this
 feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the
 Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
 
 FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame
 (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a
 project management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have
 never worked with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).
 
 Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this
 feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only
 cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then
 put the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I
 know I could swing the purchase of new tools.

What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor desirable. Your 
translation vendor should be using a translation memory (and you should request 
a copy of it, since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this 
vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage). 

When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been translated 
once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the translation memory. Only the 
portions that are new or changed need to be translated. 

If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it is using 
translation memory, there's no point in you trying to dissect files and 
reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all kinds of problems. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Sharon Burton]

But it is easy and reliable - they do a compare with the new files to  
the saved TM files. A report spits out, showing the differences, but  
totally different and slightly different. They send you that report so  
you can see how different the files are.


I'm guessing they use Trados - as most places do - and this is simple.  
But all translation tools ave the diff reports ability.


I managed a group a few years ago that translated into 4 other  
languages. We lived and died by the previous TM and the associated  
reports.

--
sharon
From web


Quoting Alison Craig alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com:


Richard:

Someone else who replied off-list made the same observation - and we  
 do have a TM for each language. I can also get a copy simply by   
asking.


I was hoping for an additional (easy and reliable) method to speed   
up the process and cut down on costs.


Looks like I'm out of luck on this one.

Alison


Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com



-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:17 PM
To: Alison Craig; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Alison Craig wrote:

Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM



In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison
ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame
newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this
feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the
Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?

FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame
(and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a
project management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have
never worked with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).

Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this
feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only
cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then
put the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I
know I could swing the purchase of new tools.


What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor   
desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a translation   
memory (and you should request a copy of it, since you've paid for   
it, so that you're not locked into this vendor because it's holding   
your translation memory hostage).


When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been  
 translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the  
translation  memory. Only the portions that are new or changed need  
to be  translated.


If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it  
 is using translation memory, there's no point in you trying to   
dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all  
 kinds of problems.



Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Pinkham, Jim]

On an only slightly tangential note, Alison, your having FM 9 also
enables you to use the free SDL Author Assistant plug-in:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4357. 

As Adobe describes it, The SDL Author Assistant for Adobe(r)
FrameMaker(r) 9 plug-in enables enterprise-wide consistency in grammar,
style, and terminology and reusability of content. It checks written
text for writing style issues that impact the content's readability and
translatability. 

That consistency can also help contain translation costs.

Jim

 

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:22 PM
To: Combs, Richard; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Richard:

Someone else who replied off-list made the same observation - and we do
have a TM for each language. I can also get a copy simply by asking.

I was hoping for an additional (easy and reliable) method to speed up
the process and cut down on costs.

Looks like I'm out of luck on this one.

Alison

 
Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:17 PM
To: Alison Craig; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Alison Craig wrote: 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM
 
 In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison

 ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame 
 newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this

 feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to 
 the Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
 
 FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native 
 Frame (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I 
 don't pay a project management fee, I let them work for their money. 
 Besides, I have never worked with MIF files - but there is a first
time for everything).
 
 Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make

 this feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something

 that only cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount 
 of text and then put the files back together without a hassle once 
 they were completed, I know I could swing the purchase of new tools.

What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor
desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a translation memory
(and you should request a copy of it, since you've paid for it, so that
you're not locked into this vendor because it's holding your translation
memory hostage). 

When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been
translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the translation
memory. Only the portions that are new or changed need to be translated.


If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it is
using translation memory, there's no point in you trying to dissect
files and reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all kinds of
problems. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





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RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Alison Craig]

Thanks Jim.

I'm on the SDL mailing list but I haven't looked into this module - so much to 
do, so little time ;-))). 

Have you actually used the module? Do you know of any issues, bugs, etc?

BTW, when I was working in Word, I did content management manually across 3 
product lines (2 manuals per product). Making a conscious effort did make a 
huge difference, but it's not fool proof by any means.

Alison
 
Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
 

-Original Message-
From: Pinkham, Jim [mailto:jim.pink...@voith.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:52 PM
To: Alison Craig; Combs, Richard; FrameMaker Forum
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

On an only slightly tangential note, Alison, your having FM 9 also
enables you to use the free SDL Author Assistant plug-in:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4357. 

As Adobe describes it, The SDL Author Assistant for Adobe(r)
FrameMaker(r) 9 plug-in enables enterprise-wide consistency in grammar,
style, and terminology and reusability of content. It checks written
text for writing style issues that impact the content's readability and
translatability. 

That consistency can also help contain translation costs.

Jim

 

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:22 PM
To: Combs, Richard; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Richard:

Someone else who replied off-list made the same observation - and we do
have a TM for each language. I can also get a copy simply by asking.

I was hoping for an additional (easy and reliable) method to speed up
the process and cut down on costs.

Looks like I'm out of luck on this one.

Alison

 
Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:17 PM
To: Alison Craig; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Alison Craig wrote: 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM
 
 In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison

 ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame 
 newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this

 feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to 
 the Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
 
 FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native 
 Frame (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I 
 don't pay a project management fee, I let them work for their money. 
 Besides, I have never worked with MIF files - but there is a first
time for everything).
 
 Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make

 this feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something

 that only cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount 
 of text and then put the files back together without a hassle once 
 they were completed, I know I could swing the purchase of new tools.

What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor
desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a translation memory
(and you should request a copy of it, since you've paid for it, so that
you're not locked into this vendor because it's holding your translation
memory hostage). 

When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been
translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the translation
memory. Only the portions that are new or changed need to be translated.


If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it is
using translation memory, there's no point in you trying to dissect
files and reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all kinds of
problems. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





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Send

Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Alison Craig]

Version: FM9 (9.0p237)
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 11 months
Tech Comm Experience: 15 years
Trans/Localization Experience: 10 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)

We translate our manuals and I am constantly trying to find ways to trim 
translation costs (depending on the language and frequency of translation 
updates, it runs from $5,000 to $11,000 to translate a manual). As we are a 
Medical Device company, translation is mandated so it's something we just have 
live with.

In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison ability 
to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame newbie, I 
wondered if anyone could give me more information about this feature? Can it be 
used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the Language Service 
Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?

FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame (and 
Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a project 
management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have never worked 
with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).

Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this 
feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only 
cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then put 
the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I know I 
could swing the purchase of new tools.

Any help would appreciated,

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com

Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Jeff Coatsworth]

First I would get your copy of FM9 patched - currently it's at p250.
Next I would look at moving to structured FM - translation costs are the 
biggest argument I've ever seen for making the case to move to a structured 
environment.
If you can't afford the time to do that, are there significant parts of your 
documentation that have already been translated and don't change? If so, then 
you could certainly cut down on your costs by only getting the chunks that have 
changed translated. That means breaking stuff up into "pseudo-structured" bits 
- lots of smaller topics or text insets, but not full structured FM.

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:49 PM
To: 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Version: FM9 (9.0p237)
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 11 months
Tech Comm Experience: 15 years
Trans/Localization Experience: 10 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)

We translate our manuals and I am constantly trying to find ways to trim 
translation costs (depending on the language and frequency of translation 
updates, it runs from $5,000 to $11,000 to translate a manual). As we are a 
Medical Device company, translation is mandated so it's something we just have 
live with.

In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison ability 
to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame newbie, I 
wondered if anyone could give me more information about this feature? Can it be 
used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the Language Service 
Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?

FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame (and 
Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a project 
management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have never worked 
with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).

Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this 
feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only 
cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then put 
the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I know I 
could swing the purchase of new tools.

Any help would appreciated,

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com<mailto:alison.craig at ultrasonix.com>


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Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Combs, Richard]

Alison Craig wrote: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM

> In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison
> ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame
> newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this
> feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the
> Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
> 
> FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame
> (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a
> project management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have
> never worked with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).
> 
> Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this
> feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only
> cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then
> put the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I
> know I could swing the purchase of new tools.

What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor desirable. Your 
translation vendor should be using a translation memory (and you should request 
a copy of it, since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this 
vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage). 

When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been translated 
once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the translation memory. Only the 
portions that are new or changed need to be translated. 

If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it is using 
translation memory, there's no point in you trying to dissect files and 
reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all kinds of problems. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Alison Craig]

I hadn't applied the last Frame patch as everything was working well for me and 
my projects have been pretty non-stop.

It's on my list when I have a little down time.

Studying Structured Frame is currently at the top of my list (I've exchanged 
some e-mails on the List that very topic over the last couple of weeks). I 
guess I'll have to move that project along a little faster.

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:56 AM
To: 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

First I would get your copy of FM9 patched - currently it's at p250.
Next I would look at moving to structured FM - translation costs are the 
biggest argument I've ever seen for making the case to move to a structured 
environment.
If you can't afford the time to do that, are there significant parts of your 
documentation that have already been translated and don't change? If so, then 
you could certainly cut down on your costs by only getting the chunks that have 
changed translated. That means breaking stuff up into "pseudo-structured" bits 
- lots of smaller topics or text insets, but not full structured FM.

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:49 PM
To: 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Version: FM9 (9.0p237)
Unstructured
OS: XP Pro with SP3
FM Experience: 11 months
Tech Comm Experience: 15 years
Trans/Localization Experience: 10 years
Writing Team: 1 (me)

We translate our manuals and I am constantly trying to find ways to trim 
translation costs (depending on the language and frequency of translation 
updates, it runs from $5,000 to $11,000 to translate a manual). As we are a 
Medical Device company, translation is mandated so it's something we just have 
live with.

In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison ability 
to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame newbie, I 
wondered if anyone could give me more information about this feature? Can it be 
used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the Language Service 
Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?

FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame (and 
Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a project 
management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have never worked 
with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).

Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this 
feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only 
cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then put 
the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I know I 
could swing the purchase of new tools.

Any help would appreciated,

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com<mailto:alison.craig at ultrasonix.com>


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Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Alison Craig]

Richard:

Someone else who replied off-list made the same observation - and we do have a 
TM for each language. I can also get a copy simply by asking.

I was hoping for an additional (easy and reliable) method to speed up the 
process and cut down on costs.

Looks like I'm out of luck on this one.

Alison


Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com



-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:17 PM
To: Alison Craig; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Alison Craig wrote: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM

> In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison
> ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame
> newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this
> feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the
> Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
> 
> FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame
> (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a
> project management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have
> never worked with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).
> 
> Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this
> feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only
> cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then
> put the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I
> know I could swing the purchase of new tools.

What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor desirable. Your 
translation vendor should be using a translation memory (and you should request 
a copy of it, since you've paid for it, so that you're not locked into this 
vendor because it's holding your translation memory hostage). 

When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been translated 
once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the translation memory. Only the 
portions that are new or changed need to be translated. 

If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it is using 
translation memory, there's no point in you trying to dissect files and 
reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all kinds of problems. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Sharon Burton]

But it is easy and reliable - they do a compare with the new files to  
the saved TM files. A report spits out, showing the differences, but  
totally different and slightly different. They send you that report so  
you can see how different the files are.

I'm guessing they use Trados - as most places do - and this is simple.  
But all translation tools ave the diff reports ability.

I managed a group a few years ago that translated into 4 other  
languages. We lived and died by the previous TM and the associated  
reports.
-- 
sharon
 From web


Quoting Alison Craig :

> Richard:
>
> Someone else who replied off-list made the same observation - and we  
>  do have a TM for each language. I can also get a copy simply by   
> asking.
>
> I was hoping for an additional (easy and reliable) method to speed   
> up the process and cut down on costs.
>
> Looks like I'm out of luck on this one.
>
> Alison
>
>
> Alison Craig, Technical Writer
> Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
> Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
> E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.combs at Polycom.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:17 PM
> To: Alison Craig; 'FrameMaker Forum'
> Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature
>
> Alison Craig wrote:
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM
>
>> In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison
>> ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame
>> newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this
>> feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to the
>> Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
>>
>> FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native Frame
>> (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I don't pay a
>> project management fee, I let them work for their money. Besides, I have
>> never worked with MIF files - but there is a first time for everything).
>>
>> Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make this
>> feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something that only
>> cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount of text and then
>> put the files back together without a hassle once they were completed, I
>> know I could swing the purchase of new tools.
>
> What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor   
> desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a translation   
> memory (and you should request a copy of it, since you've paid for   
> it, so that you're not locked into this vendor because it's holding   
> your translation memory hostage).
>
> When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been  
>  translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the  
> translation  memory. Only the portions that are new or changed need  
> to be  translated.
>
> If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it  
>  is using translation memory, there's no point in you trying to   
> dissect files and reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all  
>  kinds of problems.
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> --
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as sharon at anthrobytes.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit   
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sharon%40anthrobytes.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Pinkham, Jim]

On an only slightly tangential note, Alison, your having FM 9 also
enables you to use the free SDL Author Assistant plug-in:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4357. 

As Adobe describes it, "The SDL Author Assistant for Adobe(r)
FrameMaker(r) 9 plug-in enables enterprise-wide consistency in grammar,
style, and terminology and reusability of content. It checks written
text for writing style issues that impact the content's readability and
translatability." 

That consistency can also help contain translation costs.

Jim



-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:22 PM
To: Combs, Richard; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Richard:

Someone else who replied off-list made the same observation - and we do
have a TM for each language. I can also get a copy simply by asking.

I was hoping for an additional (easy and reliable) method to speed up
the process and cut down on costs.

Looks like I'm out of luck on this one.

Alison


Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com



-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:17 PM
To: Alison Craig; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Alison Craig wrote: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM

> In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison

> ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame 
> newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this

> feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to 
> the Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
> 
> FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native 
> Frame (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I 
> don't pay a project management fee, I let them work for their money. 
> Besides, I have never worked with MIF files - but there is a first
time for everything).
> 
> Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make

> this feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something

> that only cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount 
> of text and then put the files back together without a hassle once 
> they were completed, I know I could swing the purchase of new tools.

What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor
desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a translation memory
(and you should request a copy of it, since you've paid for it, so that
you're not locked into this vendor because it's holding your translation
memory hostage). 

When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been
translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the translation
memory. Only the portions that are new or changed need to be translated.


If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it is
using translation memory, there's no point in you trying to dissect
files and reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all kinds of
problems. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





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Frame's File Comparison Feature

[Alison Craig]

Thanks Jim.

I'm on the SDL mailing list but I haven't looked into this module - so much to 
do, so little time ;-))). 

Have you actually used the module? Do you know of any issues, bugs, etc?

BTW, when I was working in Word, I did content management "manually" across 3 
product lines (2 manuals per product). Making a conscious effort did make a 
huge difference, but it's not fool proof by any means.

Alison

Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com


-Original Message-
From: Pinkham, Jim [mailto:jim.pink...@voith.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:52 PM
To: Alison Craig; Combs, Richard; FrameMaker Forum
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

On an only slightly tangential note, Alison, your having FM 9 also
enables you to use the free SDL Author Assistant plug-in:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4357. 

As Adobe describes it, "The SDL Author Assistant for Adobe(r)
FrameMaker(r) 9 plug-in enables enterprise-wide consistency in grammar,
style, and terminology and reusability of content. It checks written
text for writing style issues that impact the content's readability and
translatability." 

That consistency can also help contain translation costs.

Jim



-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Alison Craig
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:22 PM
To: Combs, Richard; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Richard:

Someone else who replied off-list made the same observation - and we do
have a TM for each language. I can also get a copy simply by asking.

I was hoping for an additional (easy and reliable) method to speed up
the process and cut down on costs.

Looks like I'm out of luck on this one.

Alison


Alison Craig, Technical Writer
Ultrasonix Medical Corporation
Tel: (604) 279-8550, ext 127
E-mail: alison.craig at ultrasonix.com



-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:17 PM
To: Alison Craig; 'FrameMaker Forum'
Subject: RE: Frame's File Comparison Feature

Alison Craig wrote: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:49 AM

> In various List threads, I've read about using Frame's file comparison

> ability to determine changes from one release to the next. As a Frame 
> newbie, I wondered if anyone could give me more information about this

> feature? Can it be used to mitigate the amount of translation sent to 
> the Language Service Provider (LSP) and if it can, how do I do this?
> 
> FYI: My current procedure is to send the LSP all the relevant native 
> Frame (and Visio) files. I let them handle the MIF conversion (as I 
> don't pay a project management fee, I let them work for their money. 
> Besides, I have never worked with MIF files - but there is a first
time for everything).
> 
> Budget is always an issue, so if I need to buy any other tools to make

> this feasible, I would have to present an ROI case (even for something

> that only cost $100). But if there is a way to send a smaller amount 
> of text and then put the files back together without a hassle once 
> they were completed, I know I could swing the purchase of new tools.

What you're considering is (or should be) neither necessary nor
desirable. Your translation vendor should be using a translation memory
(and you should request a copy of it, since you've paid for it, so that
you're not locked into this vendor because it's holding your translation
memory hostage). 

When you send an updated set of files for a book that's already been
translated once, the unchanged paragraphs will match the translation
memory. Only the portions that are new or changed need to be translated.


If your vendor isn't using translation memory, find a new one. If it is
using translation memory, there's no point in you trying to dissect
files and reassemble them -- you'd gain nothing and risk all kinds of
problems. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--





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