RE: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
Interesting responses to this post, which I guess highlight the range of media on which we are working. I posted the simple 'trick' because it helped me, and I thought it might help someone else. In this case the media is a 600+pp textbook on software security. I have been working on it most of this winter, and have necessarily had to become somewhat obsessive in order to maintain my tenuous hold on sanity. At some point it will be converted into an e-book, although this is a process with which I am not involved. If as a result I was guilty of book-centric thinking, my bad. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
If a figure is close to the cross-reference, why have a cross-reference at all? For a number of reasons, in my case. 1. In my documents, figures generally have more than one cross-reference. Being consistent with the close cross-references working the same way as farther ones when clicked on (in the typical PDF's I generate), is better than making assumptions about any text being close enough to _not_ need a cross-reference. 2. If there is only one cross-reference initially, and it is near to the figure, I still choose to be consistent - later revisions to the document may add cross-references in other locations. 3. The figure caption may get edited. With cross-references that include the caption (my rule: the first occurrence of the reference to a figure has the caption), that changed caption text is reflected in the body text referring to it. 4. With my PDF's, sometimes the figure ends up on a different page than the text referring to it - this may be unavoidable with larger figures. 5. When text before the cross-reference or figure is added later and/or edited, the separation of figure and cross-reference can occur easily and may waste time going back and fixing missing ones. Bottom line: As far as I am concerned, a cross-reference in body text that refers to a figure is a requirement, no matter where the text is in relationship to the figure. Z ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RE: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
At 11:19 -0500 15/3/13, Nancy Allison wrote: I appreciated your posting your original insight. In 20+ years of using FrameMaker, I had never thought of it! Thanks very much for sharing the info. Thank you, Nancy. Page balancing (of books) is something I only do at the end, for obvious reasons. It's usually a nightmare of some sort, particularly when authors have lots of figures; when you position one nicely (publishers hate white space at the bottom of a page) it can collide with following figures, so this time I am trying to be consistent, especially as I have some two-page figures that must span a spread. I am avoiding floating figures completely, aside from the right-hand portion of a two-page figure: *every* frame anchor sits in a tiny blank para tag of its own, which makes it easy to hook them with a 'find'. The figure references are (temporarily) highlighted: by repositioning the figures using the anchor paras, and sometimes blocks of text as well, I'm finding it a lot easier to balance pages than when using anchors set in text paras and float options (it's been known for figures to float out of numerical sequence!) Not sure if I'm explaining this clearly. -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
Robert said: I've never worked with a deliverable format that put images on a separate page. I say: You must be young. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 1:17 PM To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning I single-source to PDF and HTML. The lowest common denominator is HTML, so the layout is designed so an image is predictably above or below the adjacent text that refers to it. I've never worked with a deliverable format that put images on a separate page. That's awful. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: At 09:52 -0700 14/3/13, Robert Lauriston wrote: If a figure is close to the cross-reference, why have a cross-reference at all? Here are some reasons: . Convention . Readability . Discriminating between two or more figures when more than one is visible in a spread . How else would you refer to the contents of a figure other than saying 'In Figure x.x, the worgle-grommet is positioned next to the thingummy...'? . Because at some point the book is going to be converted to an e-thing, and this requires a hyperlink because most e-readers have to throw a separate 'page' for the figure. . Because the client expects it. . Because I lik emaking work for myself. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as bethany@lakeshore.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bethany.lee%40lakeshore.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
Steve Rickaby wrote: When optimising figure positioning to move figures as close to the cross-references to them as possible, temporarily add color to the figure xref format to make them show up. (Duh!...) I tend to give xrefs a color (blue) by default. - blue is dark enough to print well in B/W - in the PDF, the xref will look like an HTML hyperlink, so even people who don't use PDFs every day will get the idea that the link is clickable. Harro de Jong Triview ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RE: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
FrameMaker's not so good for people who can't live with rules-defined output. InDesign's the page layout application of choice for those who need fine control over page layout for books that are going to be professionally printed. On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: Page balancing (of books) is something I only do at the end, for obvious reasons. It's usually a nightmare of some sort, particularly when authors have lots of figures; when you position one nicely (publishers hate white space at the bottom of a page) it can collide with following figures, so this time I am trying to be consistent, especially as I have some two-page figures that must span a spread. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
At 09:52 -0700 14/3/13, Robert Lauriston wrote: If a figure is close to the cross-reference, why have a cross-reference at all? Here are some reasons: . Convention . Readability . Discriminating between two or more figures when more than one is visible in a spread . How else would you refer to the contents of a figure other than saying 'In Figure x.x, the worgle-grommet is positioned next to the thingummy...'? . Because at some point the book is going to be converted to an e-thing, and this requires a hyperlink because most e-readers have to throw a separate 'page' for the figure. . Because the client expects it. . Because I lik emaking work for myself. ...and so on. -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
And when going to electronic formats, links are important, and topics may split -Matt Matt Sullivan co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 P: 714.960.6840 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com On Mar 14, 2013, at 10:02 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: At 09:52 -0700 14/3/13, Robert Lauriston wrote: If a figure is close to the cross-reference, why have a cross-reference at all? Here are some reasons: . Convention . Readability . Discriminating between two or more figures when more than one is visible in a spread . How else would you refer to the contents of a figure other than saying 'In Figure x.x, the worgle-grommet is positioned next to the thingummy...'? . Because at some point the book is going to be converted to an e-thing, and this requires a hyperlink because most e-readers have to throw a separate 'page' for the figure. . Because the client expects it. . Because I lik emaking work for myself. ...and so on. -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
At 10:16 -0700 14/3/13, Robert Lauriston wrote: I've never worked with a deliverable format that put images on a separate page. That's awful. Well, you've just condemned about 500,000 academic textbooks ;-) -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
So much judgement, so little time... -Matt Matt R. Sullivan co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 P: 714.960.6840 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com On Mar 14, 2013, at 10:21 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: At 10:16 -0700 14/3/13, Robert Lauriston wrote: I've never worked with a deliverable format that put images on a separate page. That's awful. Well, you've just condemned about 500,000 academic textbooks ;-) -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Blindingly obvious trick when optimising figure positioning
I single-source to PDF and HTML. The lowest common denominator is HTML, so the layout is designed so an image is predictably above or below the adjacent text that refers to it. I've never worked with a deliverable format that put images on a separate page. That's awful. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: At 09:52 -0700 14/3/13, Robert Lauriston wrote: If a figure is close to the cross-reference, why have a cross-reference at all? Here are some reasons: . Convention . Readability . Discriminating between two or more figures when more than one is visible in a spread . How else would you refer to the contents of a figure other than saying 'In Figure x.x, the worgle-grommet is positioned next to the thingummy...'? . Because at some point the book is going to be converted to an e-thing, and this requires a hyperlink because most e-readers have to throw a separate 'page' for the figure. . Because the client expects it. . Because I lik emaking work for myself. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
