Re: How long to learn framescript?
At 11:45 -0800 22/1/07, Diane Gaskill wrote: I'm considering asking my manager to buy FrameScript for me and I have to justify it of course. Does anyone have any data on how long it takes to become reasonably proficient using it. I have 4 years of sw dev experience and 15 years of FM experience. Hi Diane, I get the digest version of the mailing list and have been away so didn't get a chance to read this earlier. I just wanted to respond to your query from a different point of view: We had a series of user guides (totaling some 4000 pages) to which I wanted to apply some across-the-board formatting changes, resulting from inadequate document design and just a general need to update the look of our guides. Because of those same initial document design problems, I was having to perform some types of change manually, page by page... So after completing the changes across a few hundred pages, we looked at automating those, and eventually bought framescript, and complemented that with a couple of scripts we commissioned from Rick Quatro (Carmen Publishing). The scripts worked exactly as we needed, and completed correctly, in seconds, what would have required a few dozen hours of mind-numbingly repetitive work (where obviously I would have missed some changes, and been running into them periodically for months or years). So in our case, I never learned a thing about framescript other than how to run a script, but it paid for itself in a few minutes. And as others have said, because of the hassle often involved in learning scripts, as long as you have an understanding boss (who will trust your judgement on which tasks are worth hiring out and not delay that process more than a day or two), in the long run the most efficient and least stressful option might be to order your scripts from a consultant; in our case, it allowed me to focus on the tasks I'm primarily hired to do, and to me, this solution to our problem we had was akin to waving a magic wand at it and making it go away, it was immensely satisfying. Kevin Hunter ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How long to learn FrameScript?
You're right Rick, that's how I proceeded to learn, first by looking closely at existing scripts to get the most useful routines and then modifying them a bit. I'm still at beginner's level but some scripts help me already a lot (BookClearChangebars at book level and SaveBookasMIF, really helpful as first step of a localization process (FM - MIF)). You can feel it's really a powerful tool. Mathieu. From: Rick Quatro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED],framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: How long to learn FrameScript? Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:28:23 -0500 Hi Diane, It depends on how much time you are willing to invest and what kind of projects you are going to practice with. I would say that you can get up to speed with it in a couple of months if you faithfully work with it an hour a day. I may be way off on my estimate, but if it makes you feel any better, I am still learning after more than 8 years of working with it. At the risk of sounding self-serving, some of my clients have learned by buying a few scripts first and then learning from them, especially if they are well-commented. One thing I can say without hesitation: whether you buy scripts or write your own (or a combination of both), FrameScript will pay for itself very quickly. Well-planned automation is a benefit to any workflow. When you buy FrameScript, make sure you work through the free tutorials on my web site. You should also join the FrameScript group at http://groups.yahoo.com. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Hi all, I'm considering asking my manager to buy FrameScript for me and I have to justify it of course. Does anyone have any data on how long it takes to become reasonably proficient using it. I have 4 years of sw dev experience and 15 years of FM experience. Thanks, Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bobitch%40hotmail.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. _ Gagnez des écrans plats avec Live.com http://www.image-addict.fr/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How long to learn FrameScript?
Hi Steve,
This is a good question. First of all, let me say that, while I am currently
using PC Frame, I have used FrameMaker under Mac, UNIX, and PC over the
years, and still consider the Mac version the best of the three as far as
user experience. It's true that Mac FrameScript is stuck at version 2 and
will likely remain that way. However, FrameScript 2 is still very useful
(and stable) for Mac FrameMaker automation. In fact, my FrameScript book was
written for version 2 and is still selling, even though it was written in
2002.
Here are some things that later versions of FrameScript (3 and above) added:
* The ability to interact with the file system (create folders, copy and
move files, etc.).
* The ability to interact with databases using ODBC.
* New collection data types beyond string lists, integer lists, etc.
* The ability to use ActiveX objects to expand functionality (regular
expressions, XML parsing, etc.)
* The ability to run scripts from a command line.
As you can see, these things allow greater integration of FrameMaker with
Windows and other applications.
The greatest 3 or higher feature, in my opinion is the addition of Functions
to FrameScript. Functions are similar to Subroutines in that they isolate
functionality in callable blocks of code. However, Functions always return a
value (even if it is NULL), and can be called inline. For a simple
example, here is a function the calculates square footage.
Function ReturnSquareFeet mHeight mWidth
//
Local Result(-1); // Result is the variable that the function returns.
// Make sure both parameters were passed to the function.
If Args.Count 2
Write Console 'ReturnSquareFeet requires 2 arguments.';
LeaveSub;
EndIf
Set Result = mHeight * mWidth;
//
EndFunc
Here is an example of how you can call this Function inline:
MsgBox 'The square footage is '+ReturnSquareFeet{150,200};
If you haven't done a lot of scripting, you may not see the significance of
this, but having a library of reusable Functions is a great productivity
boost when writing scripts.
You may wonder why I have focused on PC-only FrameScript features when you
asked about Mac FrameScript 2. It is because I think you have to look at the
big picture:
1) FrameMaker for Mac is officially stopped at 7.0 and only runs on Classic.
2) FrameMaker 8 is on the horizon.
3) It is easier than ever to run Windows on the Mac.
4) Windows performance on the Mac is gaining parity with PCs and native Mac
applications.
5) FrameScript 4.1 gives you many more FrameMaker automation options.
If I were a Mac user faced with the choice to stay with Mac FrameMaker and
FrameScript 2.0, or to use Windows FrameMaker and FrameScript 4.1, I would
opt for the latter choice. Especially when now you don't have to give up
your Mac or use a stand-alone PC to do so.
However, this is important: if you choose to stay with Mac FrameMaker, you
will still increase your productivity with FrameScript 2.0, and it will pay
for itself quickly.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com
I have a parallel question, if I may, which is probably one for Rick.
FrameScript for Apple Mac still exists but is locked into a version two
major releases behind the current one (2 vs. 4). My question is whether
FrameScript 2 can do useful things and is worth bothering about, or
whether Mac FrameMaker users interested in FrameSCript should wait until
the entire Mac/FrameMaker thing is resolved by virtualization, emulation,
sidegrade or whatever.
--
Steve
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Re: How long to learn FrameScript?
Hi Diane, This is my experience. First I bought Rick Quatro's book and followed the exercises - that helps alot. You can even modify the scripts a bit and apply them to your needs. Then there is a steep initial learning curve in that you have to learn (a) a new way of looking at FrameMaker - by objects - big objects (documents) that contain lists of smaller objects, etc. - I found that to be exciting but it can also be time-consuming until you find what you need, and (b) what FrameMaker commands to use to process what objects correspond to your task. But at this stage every wrong turn you take is a right turn in that you are still learning about objects and commands. Finally, you make a script that servers YOUR needs and you are hooked! My first script printed 8 different versions of the same document using conditional text, and the same with a second document - for Marketing. Manually it took 30 minutes to set/hide conditional text and print the 16 documents to PDF. I also had to change the value of a variable. My script did the task in between 11-12 seconds! When I showed my boss he said the investment - FrameScript (150) and book (100) - already paid off. Since then I have made an interface for printing all of my PDF documentation with check boxes and Choose All items. The printing sets conditional text, updates the book, can be done from a test or an official directory, can show the documents being processed (visibility) or not for increased speed, has a verbose mode to print progress statements or not - I have full control and the job is done fast and perfectly each time. A 2.5 hour manual task is reduced to 10 mins if the documents are local, or 20 mins if they are network. I admit to having spent 2 days looking for a bug in a script, and it came down to not a FrameScript error but an improperly defined text inset...I have lost some time working things out but this only added to my experience. If you like development you are sure to GAIN big time with scripts - for big and small jobs. For example we wanted to standardize file names. I wrote a script that went through my books, displayed each image name (imported by reference) , let me change the file name, and updated the name in the FM document. I used code written initially for another application and it went well. In the first year I spent a 4-5 weeks on FrameScript but my partners know that my documents can be printed on demand, they know there will be no mistakes in production, and they feel that we work professionally in Documentation. You give a better, faster service and can optimize future procedures. Go for it! Good luck. At 15:28 2007-01-22, Rick Quatro wrote: Hi Diane, It depends on how much time you are willing to invest and what kind of projects you are going to practice with. I would say that you can get up to speed with it in a couple of months if you faithfully work with it an hour a day. I may be way off on my estimate, but if it makes you feel any better, I am still learning after more than 8 years of working with it. At the risk of sounding self-serving, some of my clients have learned by buying a few scripts first and then learning from them, especially if they are well-commented. One thing I can say without hesitation: whether you buy scripts or write your own (or a combination of both), FrameScript will pay for itself very quickly. Well-planned automation is a benefit to any workflow. When you buy FrameScript, make sure you work through the free tutorials on my web site. You should also join the FrameScript group at http://groups.yahoo.com. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Hi all, I'm considering asking my manager to buy FrameScript for me and I have to justify it of course. Does anyone have any data on how long it takes to become reasonably proficient using it. I have 4 years of sw dev experience and 15 years of FM experience. Thanks, Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sobrien%40innovmetric.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Stephen O'Brien, Rédacteur technique / Technical Writer InnovMetric Logiciels inc. / InnovMetric Software Inc. 2014, Jean-Talon Nord, Suite 310 Québec (Québec), Canada G1N 4N6 Tel./Tél.: (418) 688-2061 Fax/Telec.: (418) 688-3001 courriel/e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.innovmetric.com PolyWorks, the Universal 3D Metrology Software Platform for Manufacturing (TM) ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to
Re: How long to learn FrameScript?
I'm wary of script languages generally because of the 'macro trap'. This is my term for a syndrome I noticed when I was a manager in the computer industry. It's real easy to think, 'Right, this is a tedious process, but I can automate it with a script and save *tons* of time'... and then spend twice as long developing and testing the automation than it would have taken to do the task manually in the first place ;-) I've even fallen into the macro trap myself... once, slightly scarily, with electronic *hardware*, during my postgrad research. I'm sure Rick never does this, though ;-) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: How long to learn FrameScript?
Hi, As for the macro trap - you are right that sometimes making a macro to do stuff takes (at least) the same amount of time that you'd spend doing it manually. BUT at least you are having fun developing it, you are using your brain at a different frequency, and over time you can build up a collection of macros that you can pull out and adapt for the situation at hand. So - I'm all in favour of using macros! -Niels -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby Sent: 23. januar 2007 17:33 To: framers@FrameUsers.com Subject: Re: How long to learn FrameScript? I'm wary of script languages generally because of the 'macro trap'. This is my term for a syndrome I noticed when I was a manager in the computer industry. It's real easy to think, 'Right, this is a tedious process, but I can automate it with a script and save *tons* of time'... and then spend twice as long developing and testing the automation than it would have taken to do the task manually in the first place ;-) I've even fallen into the macro trap myself... once, slightly scarily, with electronic *hardware*, during my postgrad research. I'm sure Rick never does this, though ;-) -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/nfa%40maconomy.dk Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How long to learn FrameScript?
At 4:33 PM + 1/23/07, Steve Rickaby wrote: I'm wary of script languages generally because of the 'macro trap'. This is my term for a syndrome I noticed when I was a manager in the computer industry. It's real easy to think, 'Right, this is a tedious process, but I can automate it with a script and save *tons* of time'... and then spend twice as long developing and testing the automation than it would have taken to do the task manually in the first place ;-) I've even fallen into the macro trap myself... once, slightly scarily, with electronic *hardware*, during my postgrad research. I'm sure Rick never does this, though ;-) I don't use FrameScript, but I've used AppleScript a lot with FrameMaker and many other applications. While some scripts can take a long time to write and debug, I've found that for the vast majority I got payback on the first use. One script I use only once per term, but it saves me about 5 hours of manual drudgery and a bout of RSI. It took about an hour and a half to write. And since scripting is LOT more fun than copying and pasting data from one location to another, I'll go for the scripting. The big downside I see to scripting solutions in an organization is when you provide scripts to others to use and abuse. If anything changes that causes the script to error they need you to fix the script. Things I maintain myself for my own use are not an issue - I just fix them. Releasing scripts for others to use requires a lot more work because you need to bulletproof them and one can never be sure that all of the contingencies have been covered. - web ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How long to learn FrameScript?
I worry about that trap, too. However, once you have the script working correctly, you get another bit of value. You know there isn't any human error. (or at least, as much human error) I bought framescript because I had to convert 13 books from one template to another. Yes, it took me about 3 weeks to write all the scripts that I needed. Could I have spent that time manually moving all the figure captions from above the image to below, confirming tables were attached to an anchor paragraph, renaming paragraph tags, etc. etc.? Yes. However, there would have been a TON of mistakes in there. Never mind the fact I would have gone crazy in the process. ;-) Since I had started to learn the tool...I could start using it to write other time saving scripts. I was also able to write a few scripts that I use all the time. For example, I use WebWorks 2003, and like my images to be in a thumbnail. You have to insert a marker in a text box into every single anchored frame you want to convert this way. I wrote a script that does that for me if I use the script to import the image. You are correct that you need to be careful. You do have to weigh the time spent vs. the value add. For me, the piece of mind that I could do it once, and it would be right, was huge. The extra value of having time saving scripts for later helped. And I could add something to my resume. Zoë - Original Message From: Steve Rickaby [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm wary of script languages generally because of the 'macro trap'. This is my term for a syndrome I noticed when I was a manager in the computer industry. It's real easy to think, 'Right, this is a tedious process, but I can automate it with a script and save *tons* of time'... and then spend twice as long developing and testing the automation than it would have taken to do the task manually in the first place ;-) I've even fallen into the macro trap myself... once, slightly scarily, with electronic *hardware*, during my postgrad research. I'm sure Rick never does this, though ;-) -- Steve ___ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How long to learn FrameScript?
At 12:49 -0400 23/1/07, Bill Briggs wrote: Releasing scripts for others to use requires a lot more work because you need to bulletproof them and one can never be sure that all of the contingencies have been covered. Equally true of EDDs and templates. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: How long to learn FrameScript?
Hi Diane, It depends on how much time you are willing to invest and what kind of projects you are going to practice with. I would say that you can get up to speed with it in a couple of months if you faithfully work with it an hour a day. I may be way off on my estimate, but if it makes you feel any better, I am still learning after more than 8 years of working with it. At the risk of sounding self-serving, some of my clients have learned by buying a few scripts first and then learning from them, especially if they are well-commented. One thing I can say without hesitation: whether you buy scripts or write your own (or a combination of both), FrameScript will pay for itself very quickly. Well-planned automation is a benefit to any workflow. When you buy FrameScript, make sure you work through the free tutorials on my web site. You should also join the FrameScript group at http://groups.yahoo.com. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Hi all, I'm considering asking my manager to buy FrameScript for me and I have to justify it of course. Does anyone have any data on how long it takes to become reasonably proficient using it. I have 4 years of sw dev experience and 15 years of FM experience. Thanks, Diane ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
