RE: Space!........ABOVE & BELOW!!
Thanx Peter, I actually *did* know that; maybe instead of saying "compounding" I should've said "confounding" of spaces — for just the reason you stated — when a "below" setting that is larger than a following tag’s "above" setting. I often fail to notice this when I'm in a tagging frenzy. It usually gets noticed by the customer during a doc review. ≡8^@ That’s why I’m trying to make things more idiot–(that would be me)–proof. Thanx for responding. Regards, DJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:11 PM To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC Cc: framers Subject: Re: Space!ABOVE & BELOW!! Hi, Darren: It's a good idea to avoid surprises caused by the addition of space below/above consecutive paragraphs. I'm not sure if you know that FrameMaker is nearly unique* in its method of inter-paragraph space settings. It's about "size matters." FrameMaker honors the larger of space below and space above to set the space between them. Almost all other text-creation tools combine the spaces. The additive method requires more thought about designing for many possible combinations of consecutive paragraph formats. *I believe that Ventura Publisher offers the option to work either larger one wins, or additive. Regards, Peter __ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello fellow FrameManiacs, > > I'd like to know your philosophy - if you have one - on using the > "Above Pfg:" and "Below Pgf:" parameters when designing templates. > > I have recently set all my ParaTags to "Below Pgf: = 0.0" to avoid any > compounding of spaces. I'm using the "Below " setting only in special > cases or when I need to override a tag (which I try and keep to a > minimum). > > > > Thanx, > > DJ > > > > Darren J Butler > > NG Corp > > [Space; the Final Frontier...] > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Space!........ABOVE & BELOW!!
['talk-about "toys in the attic"] Stuart, Great article - very informative! This will help me with some of my template customers who will *not like* the new paradigm. Thanx, DJ Darren J Butler NG Corp -Original Message- From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:22 PM To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC Cc: framers Subject: Re: Space!....ABOVE & BELOW!! Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC wrote: > Hello fellow FrameManiacs, > > I'd like to know your philosophy - if you have one - on using the > "Above Pfg:" and "Below Pgf:" parameters when designing templates. > > I have recently set all my ParaTags to "Below Pgf: = 0.0" to avoid any > compounding of spaces. I'm using the "Below " setting only in special > cases or when I need to override a tag (which I try and keep to a > minimum). Hi Darren, I've kept the following in my attic trunk of FM resources for a long time. It's good advice from Dick Gaskill in response to a similar question. HTH: === Space Above vs Space Below There is a legitimate reason for using space above rather than space below. Space above applies to the para tag in which it is set. Space below, even though it is set in one tag, affects the space above the next paragraph. The problem is that space below simply does not work for all tags that can come next. Let's use the body text tag as an example. To use your buddies' method, set the space above to zero and the space below to 7 points. Now add a list of bullets below the para that is tagged with body text. OK, this might work fine. Add another body text para. This might work fine too. But now you come to a new heading. Let's say it's a level 2 heading. Using the space below method, you get only a 7 pt spacing above a heading 2. Is this good formatting? Absolutely NOT! In fact, it looks reallly bad. Text all crowded together, etc. Yuck. To fix it you have to manually change the space below of every tag that comes right before a heading (or set the space above the headings as well). Again, not good tagging practice at all. Slow, inefficient, error prone, etc. What's the answer? Use space above. Now, no matter what kinds of tags follow your body text, the formatting looks good. Bullets, indents, lists, tables, etc., will be spaced appropriately below the body text, and so will headings, because they set their own spacing. And the same is true with the tags that the body text follows. Otherwise, sometimes you will have 3 points above a body text para (set by the para above it), sometimes 7, sometimes 10, etc. Looks bd. So, you ask, why did Adobe (well, actually, it was Frame Tech) include Space Below as a capability? Because it can set up a minimum space below tags like headings, that's why. Well, any tags, actually, but the case for headings is easy to explain. Lets use our body tag and heading 2 tag from the above example. When you insert a heading 2, you want 12 or 14 points above it. So you set the heading 2 space above to that value. No matter what tag the Heading 2 follows, it will be properly set off from the paragraph above it, whether it be bullets, tables, body text, graphics, etc. But you also want a minimum space below it because it is a heading. Let's say 8 points. Now, even though your body text tag has a 7 pt spacing above it, any time you place body text after a heading 2, you will have an 8 pt spacing, rather than 7. Remember, Frame uses the largest of the two spacings when the space below one tag is different that the space above the next tag. Space below and space above do not add, they overlap. So, bottom line: Use Space Above on all tags, and add Space Below on tags where appropriate. Actually, you =could= set both SA and SB on all tags. If carefully thought out, this can save a lot of formating woes and might make your buddies happy at the same time. I hope this answers your question. Dick Gaskill Tech Pubs Mgr. Blue Pumpkin Software Sunnyvale, CA === -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited Toronto, ON, Canada +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 srogers phoenix-geophysics com "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish squirting out ink." - George Orwell ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Space!........ABOVE & BELOW!!
Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC wrote: > Hello fellow FrameManiacs, > > I'd like to know your philosophy - if you have one - on using the > "Above Pfg:" and "Below Pgf:" parameters when designing templates. > > I have recently set all my ParaTags to "Below Pgf: = 0.0" to avoid any > compounding of spaces. I'm using the "Below " setting only in special > cases or when I need to override a tag (which I try and keep to a > minimum). Hi Darren, I've kept the following in my attic trunk of FM resources for a long time. It's good advice from Dick Gaskill in response to a similar question. HTH: === Space Above vs Space Below There is a legitimate reason for using space above rather than space below. Space above applies to the para tag in which it is set. Space below, even though it is set in one tag, affects the space above the next paragraph. The problem is that space below simply does not work for all tags that can come next. Let's use the body text tag as an example. To use your buddies' method, set the space above to zero and the space below to 7 points. Now add a list of bullets below the para that is tagged with body text. OK, this might work fine. Add another body text para. This might work fine too. But now you come to a new heading. Let's say it's a level 2 heading. Using the space below method, you get only a 7 pt spacing above a heading 2. Is this good formatting? Absolutely NOT! In fact, it looks reallly bad. Text all crowded together, etc. Yuck. To fix it you have to manually change the space below of every tag that comes right before a heading (or set the space above the headings as well). Again, not good tagging practice at all. Slow, inefficient, error prone, etc. What's the answer? Use space above. Now, no matter what kinds of tags follow your body text, the formatting looks good. Bullets, indents, lists, tables, etc., will be spaced appropriately below the body text, and so will headings, because they set their own spacing. And the same is true with the tags that the body text follows. Otherwise, sometimes you will have 3 points above a body text para (set by the para above it), sometimes 7, sometimes 10, etc. Looks bd. So, you ask, why did Adobe (well, actually, it was Frame Tech) include Space Below as a capability? Because it can set up a minimum space below tags like headings, that's why. Well, any tags, actually, but the case for headings is easy to explain. Lets use our body tag and heading 2 tag from the above example. When you insert a heading 2, you want 12 or 14 points above it. So you set the heading 2 space above to that value. No matter what tag the Heading 2 follows, it will be properly set off from the paragraph above it, whether it be bullets, tables, body text, graphics, etc. But you also want a minimum space below it because it is a heading. Let's say 8 points. Now, even though your body text tag has a 7 pt spacing above it, any time you place body text after a heading 2, you will have an 8 pt spacing, rather than 7. Remember, Frame uses the largest of the two spacings when the space below one tag is different that the space above the next tag. Space below and space above do not add, they overlap. So, bottom line: Use Space Above on all tags, and add Space Below on tags where appropriate. Actually, you =could= set both SA and SB on all tags. If carefully thought out, this can save a lot of formating woes and might make your buddies happy at the same time. I hope this answers your question. Dick Gaskill Tech Pubs Mgr. Blue Pumpkin Software Sunnyvale, CA === -- Stuart Rogers Technical Communicator Phoenix Geophysics Limited Toronto, ON, Canada +1 (416) 491-7340 x 325 srogers phoenix-geophysics com "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish squirting out ink." — George Orwell ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Space!........ABOVE & BELOW!!
Hi, Darren: It's a good idea to avoid surprises caused by the addition of space below/above consecutive paragraphs. I'm not sure if you know that FrameMaker is nearly unique* in its method of inter-paragraph space settings. It's about "size matters." FrameMaker honors the larger of space below and space above to set the space between them. Almost all other text-creation tools combine the spaces. The additive method requires more thought about designing for many possible combinations of consecutive paragraph formats. *I believe that Ventura Publisher offers the option to work either larger one wins, or additive. Regards, Peter __ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello fellow FrameManiacs, > > I'd like to know your philosophy - if you have one - on using the > "Above Pfg:" and "Below Pgf:" parameters when designing templates. > > I have recently set all my ParaTags to "Below Pgf: = 0.0" to avoid any > compounding of spaces. I'm using the "Below " setting only in special > cases or when I need to override a tag (which I try and keep to a > minimum). > > > > Thanx, > > DJ > > > > Darren J Butler > > NG Corp > > [Space; the Final Frontier...] > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
