Re: Text Inset anomalies

[Vikrant Rai]

Somehow, my reply did not reach the list, so summarizing here.

1. You can use the \r special character to force line breaks in variables.
2. The FM help file says that the limit is 255 characters. !- But I think that 
it works for longer strings as well. Didn't really do boundary testing, but my 
guess would be 1024 characters.--




From: D L Reynolds reyno...@semicool.com


Many thanks for the information. I didn't know how to force a line break, but 
you're right -- that would be great for addresses. But isn't there a character 
limit on variable length? I think I've encountered that when using variables 
for 
boilerplate paragraphs.

Again, many thanks. Have a great day.

   -dr



On Sep 12, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Vikrant Rai wrote:

You can use the \r special character to create multi-line variables. 
Especially useful for addresses and other boilerplate text.
Maybe you'll find this handy.


`Vikrant




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Text Inset anomalies

[Vikrant Rai]

Somehow, my reply did not reach the list, so summarizing here.

1. You can use the "\r" special character to force line breaks in variables.
2. The FM help file says that the limit is 255 characters. 




From: D L Reynolds 


Many thanks for the information. I didn't know how to force a line break, but 
you're right -- that would be great for addresses. But isn't there a character 
limit on variable length? I think I've encountered that when using variables 
for 
boilerplate paragraphs.

Again, many thanks. Have a great day.

   -dr



On Sep 12, 2010, at 11:57 PM, Vikrant Rai wrote:

You can use the "\r" special character to create multi-line variables. 
Especially useful for addresses and other boilerplate text.
>Maybe you'll find this handy.
>
>
>`Vikrant
>
>

Re: Text Inset anomalies

[Vikrant Rai]

You can use the \r special character to create multi-line variables. 
Especially useful for addresses and other boilerplate text.
Maybe you'll find this handy.

`Vikrant




From: D L Reynolds reyno...@semicool.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Fri, 10 September, 2010 11:07:20 PM
Subject: Re: Text Inset anomalies

If your text insets are brief, you can make them variables, which eliminates 
the 
problems you are encountering. 

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Text Inset anomalies

[Vikrant Rai]

You can use the "\r" special character to create multi-line variables. 
Especially useful for addresses and other boilerplate text.
Maybe you'll find this handy.

`Vikrant




From: D L Reynolds <reyno...@semicool.com>
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Fri, 10 September, 2010 11:07:20 PM
Subject: Re: Text Inset anomalies

If your text insets are brief, you can make them variables, which eliminates 
the 
problems you are encountering. 

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RE: Text Inset anomalies

[Dick Spierings]

All,

Thanks for the feedback! It contained a lot of useful background details. 

What causes these problems is a series of text insets in a row with different 
heading styles (I know... I break the golden rule - but in this particular case 
I see no other solution). 

I found out that a non-breaking space after the text inset does not resolve the 
problem: The next text inset still inherits the style from the preceding one 
(which makes sense). Even when I put a carriage return between the text insets, 
that CR inherits the style from the preceding text inset (even when preceding 
the CR with a non-breaking space). 

What does work is the following:
1. create a para style (which I will call EMPTY) that looks like your body 
style, but has no line height nor space above/below and is side-head aligned. 
Make the size as small as you can without losing sight of the pilcrow in your 
text. 
3. Start each text insets with a CR in the EMPTY style, followed by the actual 
content.
4. In the main document separate each text inset with a CR in the EMPTY style. 
Add a non-breaking space if you want to, but that has no effect on my system 
(FM9).

When you now update your text inset, the EMPTY style from the text inset is 
transferred to the main document (instead of your usual style). EMPTY overrules 
the style of the paragraph following the text inset. As this is a CR also based 
on EMPTY, nothing changes!

There is an issue of white space though: we now have two EMPTY para's between 
the actual contents of the text insets. If the line height of EMPTY is small 
enough you can compensate this though by decreasing the space above pgf 
setting for the 'first actual content' style used in the text inset. Make sure 
though that you use this 'first actual content' style only in text insets based 
on this principle, and not in the main text (duplicate if you have to).


Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
 
Dick Spierings
 
 +31 (0)413 343786
  www.fluidwell.com
w d.spieri...@fluidwell.com 
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Re: Text Inset anomalies

[D L Reynolds]

If your text insets are brief, you can make them variables, which eliminates 
the problems you are encountering. 
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Text Inset anomalies

[Dick Spierings]

All,

Thanks for the feedback! It contained a lot of useful background details. 

What causes these problems is a series of text insets in a row with different 
heading styles (I know... I break the golden rule - but in this particular case 
I see no other solution). 

I found out that a non-breaking space after the text inset does not resolve the 
problem: The next text inset still inherits the style from the preceding one 
(which makes sense). Even when I put a carriage return between the text insets, 
that CR inherits the style from the preceding text inset (even when preceding 
the CR with a non-breaking space). 

What does work is the following:
1. create a para style (which I will call EMPTY) that looks like your body 
style, but has no line height nor space above/below and is side-head aligned. 
Make the size as small as you can without losing sight of the pilcrow in your 
text. 
3. Start each text insets with a CR in the EMPTY style, followed by the actual 
content.
4. In the main document separate each text inset with a CR in the EMPTY style. 
Add a non-breaking space if you want to, but that has no effect on my system 
(FM9).

When you now update your text inset, the EMPTY style from the text inset is 
transferred to the main document (instead of your usual style). EMPTY overrules 
the style of the paragraph following the text inset. As this is a CR also based 
on EMPTY, nothing changes!

There is an issue of white space though: we now have two EMPTY para's between 
the actual contents of the text insets. If the line height of EMPTY is small 
enough you can compensate this though by decreasing the  
setting for the 'first actual content' style used in the text inset. Make sure 
though that you use this 'first actual content' style only in text insets based 
on this principle, and not in the main text (duplicate if you have to).


Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
?
Dick Spierings
?
? +31 (0)413 343786
?? www.fluidwell.com
w d.spierings at fluidwell.com 

Text Inset anomalies

[D L Reynolds]

If your text insets are brief, you can make them variables, which eliminates 
the problems you are encountering. 

Text Inset anomalies

[Dick Spierings]

Dear Framers,

 

Text insets are one of the most powerful options of FrameMaker but they
do not buy you heaven on earth: I know some issues that exist for years
now and make that almost-there-but-not--quite feeling a very frustrating
one when using text insets. I want to run this extra quarter of a mile
but FrameMaker won't let me. To name a few: 

1.  Everywhere I insert a text inset, Frame adds a carriage return. This
means that after the text inset I always start on a  new line
(paragraph).  In other words, a text inset is treated as a paragraph. It
would mean a lot to me if I could treat text insets like any other word
or as part of a sentence - without being confronted with the unavoidable
CR at the end...

2. When I update a text inset the paragraph following the text inset
inherits the style of the first line in the text inset.

 

I have more, but let's start with these: Who knows a solution/effective
workaround?

 

Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,

 

Dick Spierings

 

' +31 (0)413 343786

  www.fluidwell.com http://www.fluidwell.com/ 

* d.spieri...@fluidwell.com 

 

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RE: Text Inset anomalies

[Combs, Richard]

Dick Spierings wrote: 

 Text insets are one of the most powerful options of FrameMaker but they
 do not buy you heaven on earth: I know some issues that exist for years
 now and make that almost-there-but-not--quite feeling a very frustrating
 one when using text insets. I want to run this extra quarter of a mile
 but FrameMaker won't let me. To name a few:
 
 1.  Everywhere I insert a text inset, Frame adds a carriage return. This
 means that after the text inset I always start on a  new line
 (paragraph).  In other words, a text inset is treated as a paragraph. It
 would mean a lot to me if I could treat text insets like any other word
 or as part of a sentence - without being confronted with the unavoidable
 CR at the end...

For single words or phrases in running text, consider using variables -- that's 
what they're for. 

The text inset source is always a complete flow, and thus a minimum of one 
paragraph. If you really need to use text insets instead of variables in 
running text (no pgf break), select the Reformat as Plain Text option in the 
Import dialog when importing the text inset. Of course, you lose any source 
formatting -- the text inset just takes on the container pgf's formatting. But 
since it's just a plain text string, there's no pgf break -- you can insert any 
number of them in a pgf. 

Speaking of container pgfs: A text inset always sits _within_ the paragraph in 
which the cursor was located when you imported it. This isn't obvious 
(especially if text symbols are off) because the content of the inset is at 
least one complete paragraph, so it looks like it sits *above* the pgf that 
contains it instead of *inside* it. 

 2. When I update a text inset the paragraph following the text inset
 inherits the style of the first line in the text inset.

This long-standing bug has been addressed several times on the list. Here's 
one: 

http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2008-February/011073.html 

In a nutshell, you must separate the text inset from the pilcrow (end-of-pgf 
symbol) of the container pgf into which you imported it. I use a non-breaking 
space. 

BTW, this is probably related to the bug that causes a pgf override when a char 
format abuts up against the pilcrow. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






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Re: Text Inset anomalies

[Steve Johnson]

inline

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Dick Spierings
d.spieri...@fluidwell.com wrote:
 Dear Framers,



 Text insets are one of the most powerful options of FrameMaker but they
 do not buy you heaven on earth: I know some issues that exist for years
 now and make that almost-there-but-not--quite feeling a very frustrating
 one when using text insets. I want to run this extra quarter of a mile
 but FrameMaker won't let me. To name a few:

 1.  Everywhere I insert a text inset, Frame adds a carriage return. This
 means that after the text inset I always start on a  new line
 (paragraph).  In other words, a text inset is treated as a paragraph. It
 would mean a lot to me if I could treat text insets like any other word
 or as part of a sentence - without being confronted with the unavoidable
 CR at the end...

If there is a solution I would love to hear it. What I've done is to
create a paragraph tag with a tiny font and no space above/below and
use that tag before or after the text inset to minimize the space
between it and the preceding/next paragraph. What will happen if you
don't do that is, for example, cross-references to a heading following
a text inset will always appear to be broken.


 2. When I update a text inset the paragraph following the text inset
 inherits the style of the first line in the text inset.



Try my suggestion even if you don't like it because it should work. If
there is a better answer let's hear it.


 I have more, but let's start with these: Who knows a solution/effective
 workaround?



 Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,



 Dick Spierings



 ' +31 (0)413 343786

   www.fluidwell.com http://www.fluidwell.com/

 * d.spieri...@fluidwell.com



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Text Inset anomalies

[Dick Spierings]

Dear Framers,



Text insets are one of the most powerful options of FrameMaker but they
do not buy you heaven on earth: I know some issues that exist for years
now and make that almost-there-but-not--quite feeling a very frustrating
one when using text insets. I want to run this extra quarter of a mile
but FrameMaker won't let me. To name a few: 

1.  Everywhere I insert a text inset, Frame adds a carriage return. This
means that after the text inset I always start on a  new line
(paragraph).  In other words, a text inset is treated as a paragraph. It
would mean a lot to me if I could treat text insets like any other word
or as part of a sentence - without being confronted with the unavoidable
CR at the end...

2. When I update a text inset the paragraph following the text inset
inherits the style of the first line in the text inset.



I have more, but let's start with these: Who knows a solution/effective
workaround?



Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,



Dick Spierings



' +31 (0)413 343786

"  www.fluidwell.com  

* d.spierings at fluidwell.com 

Text Inset anomalies

[Combs, Richard]

Dick Spierings wrote: 

> Text insets are one of the most powerful options of FrameMaker but they
> do not buy you heaven on earth: I know some issues that exist for years
> now and make that almost-there-but-not--quite feeling a very frustrating
> one when using text insets. I want to run this extra quarter of a mile
> but FrameMaker won't let me. To name a few:
> 
> 1.  Everywhere I insert a text inset, Frame adds a carriage return. This
> means that after the text inset I always start on a  new line
> (paragraph).  In other words, a text inset is treated as a paragraph. It
> would mean a lot to me if I could treat text insets like any other word
> or as part of a sentence - without being confronted with the unavoidable
> CR at the end...

For single words or phrases in running text, consider using variables -- that's 
what they're for. 

The text inset source is always a complete flow, and thus a minimum of one 
paragraph. If you really need to use text insets instead of variables in 
running text (no pgf break), select the Reformat as Plain Text option in the 
Import dialog when importing the text inset. Of course, you lose any source 
formatting -- the text inset just takes on the container pgf's formatting. But 
since it's just a plain text string, there's no pgf break -- you can insert any 
number of them in a pgf. 

Speaking of container pgfs: A text inset always sits _within_ the paragraph in 
which the cursor was located when you imported it. This isn't obvious 
(especially if text symbols are off) because the content of the inset is at 
least one complete paragraph, so it looks like it sits *above* the pgf that 
contains it instead of *inside* it. 

> 2. When I update a text inset the paragraph following the text inset
> inherits the style of the first line in the text inset.

This long-standing bug has been addressed several times on the list. Here's 
one: 

http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2008-February/011073.html 

In a nutshell, you must separate the text inset from the pilcrow (end-of-pgf 
symbol) of the container pgf into which you imported it. I use a non-breaking 
space. 

BTW, this is probably related to the bug that causes a pgf override when a char 
format abuts up against the pilcrow. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Text Inset anomalies

[Steve Johnson]

inline

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Dick Spierings
 wrote:
> Dear Framers,
>
>
>
> Text insets are one of the most powerful options of FrameMaker but they
> do not buy you heaven on earth: I know some issues that exist for years
> now and make that almost-there-but-not--quite feeling a very frustrating
> one when using text insets. I want to run this extra quarter of a mile
> but FrameMaker won't let me. To name a few:
>
> 1. ?Everywhere I insert a text inset, Frame adds a carriage return. This
> means that after the text inset I always start on a ?new line
> (paragraph). ?In other words, a text inset is treated as a paragraph. It
> would mean a lot to me if I could treat text insets like any other word
> or as part of a sentence - without being confronted with the unavoidable
> CR at the end...

If there is a solution I would love to hear it. What I've done is to
create a paragraph tag with a tiny font and no space above/below and
use that tag before or after the text inset to minimize the space
between it and the preceding/next paragraph. What will happen if you
don't do that is, for example, cross-references to a heading following
a text inset will always appear to be broken.

>
> 2. When I update a text inset the paragraph following the text inset
> inherits the style of the first line in the text inset.
>
>

Try my suggestion even if you don't like it because it should work. If
there is a better answer let's hear it.

>
> I have more, but let's start with these: Who knows a solution/effective
> workaround?
>
>
>
> Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Dick Spierings
>
>
>
> ' +31 (0)413 343786
>
> " ?www.fluidwell.com 
>
> * d.spierings at fluidwell.com
>
>
>
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>
>
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-- 

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