delivering XML on the web
You're welcome Mollye. I did not say that each xhtml file stands alone. I said we wrote standalone (xml) topics, meaning that the topics themselves are discrete: they are short enough to be specific to a single subject or answer a single question and long enough to make sense on their own and to be authored as a unit. They do not contain cross-references to other topics, because that would restrict their reuse capabilities (we also use some of the topics "as is" in our marketing collateral). Instead, we create relationships between topics in a relationship table in a ditamap. Thus, the links will only be inserted in the topics when we generate output from the ditamap. And we create a ditamap per "document type" (or "infocenter" or "context"): one for the website, one for the company brochures, and one per data sheet. This allows us to say goodbye to "unresolved cross-references". Maybe the above explanation is a bit too technical for those who are not familiar with DITA yet. If so, drop me an e-mail and I'll be happy to send you a Flash movie that shows you how relationship tables in a ditamap work. Kind regards Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor Scripto bvba Asselsstraat 65 9031 Gent Belgium T: +32 494 12 01 89 F: +32 9 366 50 23 BTW (VAT) BE 0886.192.394 skype: yves.barbion Mollye Barrett wrote: > Hi Yves, > > Thanks! sounds cool and you've provided great details. The creation > process sounds relatively easy. For sure, if I used DITA everything > from this very large doc set would need rewriting... It's likely time > to do a serious content cleaning so I'll do some projections on time > and cost. > > Does each xhtml file truly stand-alone? When topics with prescribed > relationships (rel table) change, do you have to recompile to maintain > those relationships? > > Thanks again. You've provided perspective and that's what I need! > > Best! > Mollye > > -Original Message- > *From:* Yves Barbion [mailto:yves.barbion at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 4:18 AM > *To:* mollye at clearpath.cc > *Cc:* framers at lists.frameusers.com > *Subject:* Re: delivering XML on the web > > Hi Mollye, > > I'm currently also working on a fun project: authoring structured > content for a corporate website. > > I'm using the DITA information model and I'm writing DITA topics > in FrameMaker with the DITA-FMx plug-in. This is how I do it: > >1. We do a brainstorm and make a list of the topics which we > want to have on the site. >2. We open this list in FrameMaker and save it as a regular, > unstructured FrameMaker file. This list is resembles the > traditional outline: the indents define the level of the > topics and headings. >3. We use DITA-FMx to create a ditamap and "stubs" from this > list. The "stubs" are topics which already have the correct > title and some metadata. >4. Write standalone, information-typed topics, which means > filling in the stubs. >5. We (re)arrange the topics in the ditamap, which will later > become the sitemap. >6. In the ditamap, use a "relationship table" to add links to > my topics (navigation). > > I use the DITA Open Toolkit to generate the following output: > > * xhtml. These are the files which I deliver to my web developer. > * HTMLHelp, which I then convert to WebHelp. This gives me a > pretty good idea of how my "pages" look in a web browser and > how the navigation and linking works. > > Lessons learned? > > * Authoring, and (re)structuring web content has never been > easier. Just take the ditamap and drag the topics around in > the structure to the position where you want to have them. > * The DITA-FMx plug-in is really the must-have tool if you > want to author DITA content in FrameMaker. > > > More information about DITA and DITA-FMx? > > * http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/ > * http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita > * http://dita.xml.org/ > * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DITA > > > Kind regards > > > Yves Barbion > Documentation Architect > Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor > > > Scripto bvba > Asselsstraat 65 > 9031 Gent > Belgium >
Re: delivering XML on the web
You're welcome Mollye. I did not say that each xhtml file stands alone. I said we wrote standalone (xml) topics, meaning that the topics themselves are discrete: they are short enough to be specific to a single subject or answer a single question and long enough to make sense on their own and to be authored as a unit. They do not contain cross-references to other topics, because that would restrict their reuse capabilities (we also use some of the topics "as is" in our marketing collateral). Instead, we create relationships between topics in a relationship table in a ditamap. Thus, the links will only be inserted in the topics when we generate output from the ditamap. And we create a ditamap per "document type" (or "infocenter" or "context"): one for the website, one for the company brochures, and one per data sheet. This allows us to say goodbye to "unresolved cross-references". Maybe the above explanation is a bit too technical for those who are not familiar with DITA yet. If so, drop me an e-mail and I'll be happy to send you a Flash movie that shows you how relationship tables in a ditamap work. Kind regards Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor Scripto bvba Asselsstraat 65 9031 Gent Belgium T: +32 494 12 01 89 F: +32 9 366 50 23 BTW (VAT) BE 0886.192.394 skype: yves.barbion Mollye Barrett wrote: > Hi Yves, > > Thanks! sounds cool and you've provided great details. The creation > process sounds relatively easy. For sure, if I used DITA everything > from this very large doc set would need rewriting... It's likely time > to do a serious content cleaning so I'll do some projections on time > and cost. > > Does each xhtml file truly stand-alone? When topics with prescribed > relationships (rel table) change, do you have to recompile to maintain > those relationships? > > Thanks again. You've provided perspective and that's what I need! > > Best! > Mollye > > -Original Message- > *From:* Yves Barbion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 4:18 AM > *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *Cc:* framers@lists.frameusers.com > *Subject:* Re: delivering XML on the web > > Hi Mollye, > > I'm currently also working on a fun project: authoring structured > content for a corporate website. > > I'm using the DITA information model and I'm writing DITA topics > in FrameMaker with the DITA-FMx plug-in. This is how I do it: > >1. We do a brainstorm and make a list of the topics which we > want to have on the site. >2. We open this list in FrameMaker and save it as a regular, > unstructured FrameMaker file. This list is resembles the > traditional outline: the indents define the level of the > topics and headings. >3. We use DITA-FMx to create a ditamap and "stubs" from this > list. The "stubs" are topics which already have the correct > title and some metadata. >4. Write standalone, information-typed topics, which means > filling in the stubs. >5. We (re)arrange the topics in the ditamap, which will later > become the sitemap. >6. In the ditamap, use a "relationship table" to add links to > my topics (navigation). > > I use the DITA Open Toolkit to generate the following output: > > * xhtml. These are the files which I deliver to my web developer. > * HTMLHelp, which I then convert to WebHelp. This gives me a > pretty good idea of how my "pages" look in a web browser and > how the navigation and linking works. > > Lessons learned? > > * Authoring, and (re)structuring web content has never been > easier. Just take the ditamap and drag the topics around in > the structure to the position where you want to have them. > * The DITA-FMx plug-in is really the must-have tool if you > want to author DITA content in FrameMaker. > > > More information about DITA and DITA-FMx? > > * http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/ > * http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita > * http://dita.xml.org/ > * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DITA > > > Kind regards > > > Yves Barbion > Documentation Architect > Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor > > > Scripto bvba > Asselsstraat 65 > 9031 Gent > Belgium > T: +32 49
delivering XML on the web
Hi Yves, Thanks! sounds cool and you've provided great details. The creation process sounds relatively easy. For sure, if I used DITA everything from this very large doc set would need rewriting... It's likely time to do a serious content cleaning so I'll do some projections on time and cost. Does each xhtml file truly stand-alone? When topics with prescribed relationships (rel table) change, do you have to recompile to maintain those relationships? Thanks again. You've provided perspective and that's what I need! Best! Mollye -Original Message- From: Yves Barbion [mailto:yves.barb...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:18 AM To: mollye at clearpath.cc Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: delivering XML on the web Hi Mollye, I'm currently also working on a fun project: authoring structured content for a corporate website. I'm using the DITA information model and I'm writing DITA topics in FrameMaker with the DITA-FMx plug-in. This is how I do it: 1. We do a brainstorm and make a list of the topics which we want to have on the site. 2. We open this list in FrameMaker and save it as a regular, unstructured FrameMaker file. This list is resembles the traditional outline: the indents define the level of the topics and headings. 3. We use DITA-FMx to create a ditamap and "stubs" from this list. The "stubs" are topics which already have the correct title and some metadata. 4. Write standalone, information-typed topics, which means filling in the stubs. 5. We (re)arrange the topics in the ditamap, which will later become the sitemap. 6. In the ditamap, use a "relationship table" to add links to my topics (navigation). I use the DITA Open Toolkit to generate the following output: * xhtml. These are the files which I deliver to my web developer. * HTMLHelp, which I then convert to WebHelp. This gives me a pretty good idea of how my "pages" look in a web browser and how the navigation and linking works. Lessons learned? * Authoring, and (re)structuring web content has never been easier. Just take the ditamap and drag the topics around in the structure to the position where you want to have them. * The DITA-FMx plug-in is really the must-have tool if you want to author DITA content in FrameMaker. More information about DITA and DITA-FMx? * http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/ * http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita * http://dita.xml.org/ * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DITA Kind regards Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor Scripto bvba Asselsstraat 65 9031 Gent Belgium T: +32 494 12 01 89 F: +32 9 366 50 23 BTW (VAT) BE 0886.192.394 skype: yves.barbion Mollye Barrett wrote: Dear Framers, I'm working on a fun project (for an equipment manufacturer) using Frame to author structured files that may (for a time) be published to PDF as well as to XML. The XML files will be checked into a CMS and delivered to the web for dynamic publication based on metadata and/or search. Is anyone doing the same or something similar? I'm interested your production path details, information model, lessons learned and, very soon, navigation in the delivery environment. I look forward to and appreciate any replies. Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as yves.barbion at gmail.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: delivering XML on the web
Hi Yves, Thanks! sounds cool and you've provided great details. The creation process sounds relatively easy. For sure, if I used DITA everything from this very large doc set would need rewriting... It's likely time to do a serious content cleaning so I'll do some projections on time and cost. Does each xhtml file truly stand-alone? When topics with prescribed relationships (rel table) change, do you have to recompile to maintain those relationships? Thanks again. You've provided perspective and that's what I need! Best! Mollye -Original Message- From: Yves Barbion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: delivering XML on the web Hi Mollye, I'm currently also working on a fun project: authoring structured content for a corporate website. I'm using the DITA information model and I'm writing DITA topics in FrameMaker with the DITA-FMx plug-in. This is how I do it: 1. We do a brainstorm and make a list of the topics which we want to have on the site. 2. We open this list in FrameMaker and save it as a regular, unstructured FrameMaker file. This list is resembles the traditional outline: the indents define the level of the topics and headings. 3. We use DITA-FMx to create a ditamap and "stubs" from this list. The "stubs" are topics which already have the correct title and some metadata. 4. Write standalone, information-typed topics, which means filling in the stubs. 5. We (re)arrange the topics in the ditamap, which will later become the sitemap. 6. In the ditamap, use a "relationship table" to add links to my topics (navigation). I use the DITA Open Toolkit to generate the following output: * xhtml. These are the files which I deliver to my web developer. * HTMLHelp, which I then convert to WebHelp. This gives me a pretty good idea of how my "pages" look in a web browser and how the navigation and linking works. Lessons learned? * Authoring, and (re)structuring web content has never been easier. Just take the ditamap and drag the topics around in the structure to the position where you want to have them. * The DITA-FMx plug-in is really the must-have tool if you want to author DITA content in FrameMaker. More information about DITA and DITA-FMx? * http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/ * http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita * http://dita.xml.org/ * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DITA Kind regards Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor Scripto bvba Asselsstraat 65 9031 Gent Belgium T: +32 494 12 01 89 F: +32 9 366 50 23 BTW (VAT) BE 0886.192.394 skype: yves.barbion Mollye Barrett wrote: Dear Framers, I'm working on a fun project (for an equipment manufacturer) using Frame to author structured files that may (for a time) be published to PDF as well as to XML. The XML files will be checked into a CMS and delivered to the web for dynamic publication based on metadata and/or search. Is anyone doing the same or something similar? I'm interested your production path details, information model, lessons learned and, very soon, navigation in the delivery environment. I look forward to and appreciate any replies. Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
delivering XML on the web
Hi Mollye, I'm currently also working on a fun project: authoring structured content for a corporate website. I'm using the DITA information model and I'm writing DITA topics in FrameMaker with the DITA-FMx plug-in. This is how I do it: 1. We do a brainstorm and make a list of the topics which we want to have on the site. 2. We open this list in FrameMaker and save it as a regular, unstructured FrameMaker file. This list is resembles the traditional outline: the indents define the level of the topics and headings. 3. We use DITA-FMx to create a ditamap and "stubs" from this list. The "stubs" are topics which already have the correct title and some metadata. 4. Write standalone, information-typed topics, which means filling in the stubs. 5. We (re)arrange the topics in the ditamap, which will later become the sitemap. 6. In the ditamap, use a "relationship table" to add links to my topics (navigation). I use the DITA Open Toolkit to generate the following output: * xhtml. These are the files which I deliver to my web developer. * HTMLHelp, which I then convert to WebHelp. This gives me a pretty good idea of how my "pages" look in a web browser and how the navigation and linking works. Lessons learned? * Authoring, and (re)structuring web content has never been easier. Just take the ditamap and drag the topics around in the structure to the position where you want to have them. * The DITA-FMx plug-in is really the must-have tool if you want to author DITA content in FrameMaker. More information about DITA and DITA-FMx? * http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/ * http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita * http://dita.xml.org/ * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DITA Kind regards Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor Scripto bvba Asselsstraat 65 9031 Gent Belgium T: +32 494 12 01 89 F: +32 9 366 50 23 BTW (VAT) BE 0886.192.394 skype: yves.barbion Mollye Barrett wrote: > Dear Framers, > > I'm working on a fun project (for an equipment manufacturer) using Frame > to author structured files that may (for a time) be published to PDF as > well as to XML. The XML files will be checked into a CMS and delivered to > the web for dynamic publication based on metadata and/or search. > > Is anyone doing the same or something similar? I'm interested your > production path details, information model, lessons learned and, very > soon, navigation in the delivery environment. > > I look forward to and appreciate any replies. > > Mollye Barrett > ClearPath, LLC > 414-331-1378 > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as yves.barbion at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >
delivering XML on the web
https://info2.lotus.com/bluegrass/ This flipped across my path recently and sounds similar to what you are doing, might be worth a look?? Gordon -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Mollye Barrett Sent: 20 March 2008 20:02 To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: delivering XML on the web Dear Framers, I'm working on a fun project (for an equipment manufacturer) using Frame to author structured files that may (for a time) be published to PDF as well as to XML. The XML files will be checked into a CMS and delivered to the web for dynamic publication based on metadata and/or search. Is anyone doing the same or something similar? I'm interested your production path details, information model, lessons learned and, very soon, navigation in the delivery environment. I look forward to and appreciate any replies. Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as Gordon.McLean at grahamtechnology.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gordon.mclean%40grahamte chnology.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. This email (and any attachments) is private and confidential, and is intended solely for the addressee. If you have received this communication in error please remove it and inform us via telephone or email. Although we take all possible steps to ensure mail and attachments are free from malicious content, malware and viruses, we cannot accept any responsibility whatsoever for any changes to content outwith our administrative bounds. The views represented within this mail are solely the view of the author and do not reflect the views of the organisation as a whole. Graham Technology plc Registered in Scotland company no. SC143434 Registered Office India of Inchinnan, Renfrewshire, Scotland PA4 9LH http://www.grahamtechnology.com
RE: delivering XML on the web
https://info2.lotus.com/bluegrass/ This flipped across my path recently and sounds similar to what you are doing, might be worth a look?? Gordon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mollye Barrett Sent: 20 March 2008 20:02 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: delivering XML on the web Dear Framers, I'm working on a fun project (for an equipment manufacturer) using Frame to author structured files that may (for a time) be published to PDF as well as to XML. The XML files will be checked into a CMS and delivered to the web for dynamic publication based on metadata and/or search. Is anyone doing the same or something similar? I'm interested your production path details, information model, lessons learned and, very soon, navigation in the delivery environment. I look forward to and appreciate any replies. Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gordon.mclean%40grahamte chnology.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. This email (and any attachments) is private and confidential, and is intended solely for the addressee. If you have received this communication in error please remove it and inform us via telephone or email. Although we take all possible steps to ensure mail and attachments are free from malicious content, malware and viruses, we cannot accept any responsibility whatsoever for any changes to content outwith our administrative bounds. The views represented within this mail are solely the view of the author and do not reflect the views of the organisation as a whole. Graham Technology plc Registered in Scotland company no. SC143434 Registered Office India of Inchinnan, Renfrewshire, Scotland PA4 9LH http://www.grahamtechnology.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: delivering XML on the web
Hi Mollye, I'm currently also working on a fun project: authoring structured content for a corporate website. I'm using the DITA information model and I'm writing DITA topics in FrameMaker with the DITA-FMx plug-in. This is how I do it: 1. We do a brainstorm and make a list of the topics which we want to have on the site. 2. We open this list in FrameMaker and save it as a regular, unstructured FrameMaker file. This list is resembles the traditional outline: the indents define the level of the topics and headings. 3. We use DITA-FMx to create a ditamap and "stubs" from this list. The "stubs" are topics which already have the correct title and some metadata. 4. Write standalone, information-typed topics, which means filling in the stubs. 5. We (re)arrange the topics in the ditamap, which will later become the sitemap. 6. In the ditamap, use a "relationship table" to add links to my topics (navigation). I use the DITA Open Toolkit to generate the following output: * xhtml. These are the files which I deliver to my web developer. * HTMLHelp, which I then convert to WebHelp. This gives me a pretty good idea of how my "pages" look in a web browser and how the navigation and linking works. Lessons learned? * Authoring, and (re)structuring web content has never been easier. Just take the ditamap and drag the topics around in the structure to the position where you want to have them. * The DITA-FMx plug-in is really the must-have tool if you want to author DITA content in FrameMaker. More information about DITA and DITA-FMx? * http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/ * http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita * http://dita.xml.org/ * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DITA Kind regards Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor Scripto bvba Asselsstraat 65 9031 Gent Belgium T: +32 494 12 01 89 F: +32 9 366 50 23 BTW (VAT) BE 0886.192.394 skype: yves.barbion Mollye Barrett wrote: > Dear Framers, > > I'm working on a fun project (for an equipment manufacturer) using Frame > to author structured files that may (for a time) be published to PDF as > well as to XML. The XML files will be checked into a CMS and delivered to > the web for dynamic publication based on metadata and/or search. > > Is anyone doing the same or something similar? I'm interested your > production path details, information model, lessons learned and, very > soon, navigation in the delivery environment. > > I look forward to and appreciate any replies. > > Mollye Barrett > ClearPath, LLC > 414-331-1378 > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
delivering XML on the web
Dear Framers, I'm working on a fun project (for an equipment manufacturer) using Frame to author structured files that may (for a time) be published to PDF as well as to XML. The XML files will be checked into a CMS and delivered to the web for dynamic publication based on metadata and/or search. Is anyone doing the same or something similar? I'm interested your production path details, information model, lessons learned and, very soon, navigation in the delivery environment. I look forward to and appreciate any replies. Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378
delivering XML on the web
Dear Framers, I'm working on a fun project (for an equipment manufacturer) using Frame to author structured files that may (for a time) be published to PDF as well as to XML. The XML files will be checked into a CMS and delivered to the web for dynamic publication based on metadata and/or search. Is anyone doing the same or something similar? I'm interested your production path details, information model, lessons learned and, very soon, navigation in the delivery environment. I look forward to and appreciate any replies. Mollye Barrett ClearPath, LLC 414-331-1378 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
