FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[Helen Borrie]

Hello list,

I'm struggling a bit here with conditionals, specifically text containing 
cross-references.  The original unstructured book is 40 chapters and 14 
appendices with all the other usual front and back matter.  It is in 
distribution as a PDF.  Naturally it has a ton of cross-references and 
navigation aids. 

The book is too big to print so the current project is to break it into three 
volumes for indy publication as paper books via CreateSpace.  The one thing 
that is holding me up and driving me bananas is that, although I'm conditioning 
these cross-refs out of the print books, I can't get through a book update 
because they are being treated as unresolved.  I *am* setting the updates not 
to update cross-refs.

Is there something I can do to make the update process ignore the unresolved 
cross-refs so that it will continue and generate the TOC and the index?  Or do 
I literally have to work with completely separated projects for each of the 
four book options?  I hope not, as I want and need to keep the main book as 
single source. 

I look forward to any tips or tricks to achieve what I want to do.  

Thanks,
Helen


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Re: "FrameMaker has detected a problem and must quit" Really?!

[Robert Lauriston]

Best practice is to use a version control system such as Subversion.
Gives you the performance of local files, all the advantages of
network sharing, plus additional advantages.

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 1:40 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Hi Gary
>
> That's interesting. It sounds very like the problems we've seen: 3000+ page
> docs, lots of conditional text, sometimes can't create a PDF over the
> network.
>
> We're using a Novell server. Our IS team have checked for choke points,
> overloading etc, and can't find any problems. They reckon it's just Novell.
> We're going to be changing to a Microsoft server anyway, and they reckon
> that'll be happier with Frame. I hope they're right!
>
> Like you, we've "resolved" the issue by copying all the components to a
> local drive before creating the PDF. We're ok with having to do that part of
> the workflow locally, as long as we can keep editing the source files over
> the network.
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Re: Crash when i print from book

[Ken Poshedly]

The only thing I know for sure (found while researching for my own problems 
that 
started the recent "FrameMaker has detected a problem and must quit" Really?! 
thread is that "11004" means that you're running FrameMaker version 11 (like 
you 
stated).

The rest is a big secret.

-- Ken in Atlanta





From: John Posada 
To: FrameUsers List 
Sent: Tue, February 19, 2013 12:57:15 PM
Subject: Crash when i print from book


FM11 on win7.
When i attempt to print a book i crash. The internal error is
11004  22540623  22540906 25284309
Anybody have a clue based on these numbers?___


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Re: Importing FM files into RoboHelp

[Robert Lauriston]

File > Project Settings > Edit (conversion settings for FrameMaker
documents), select the paragraph style, check Pagination.

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Nancy Allison  wrote:
> I am creating a RoboHelp project out of a FrameMaker book. I can't find a way 
> to break the imported .fm files into separate .htm files at specified 
> paragraph styles, such as Heading 1 and Heading 2.
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Re: FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
052-763-7133

On 20-Feb-13 10:01 AM, Helen Borrie wrote:

Hello list,

I'm struggling a bit here with conditionals, specifically text containing 
cross-references.  The original unstructured book is 40 chapters and 14 
appendices with all the other usual front and back matter.  It is in 
distribution as a PDF.  Naturally it has a ton of cross-references and 
navigation aids.

The book is too big to print so the current project is to break it into three 
volumes for indy publication as paper books via CreateSpace.  The one thing 
that is holding me up and driving me bananas is that, although I'm conditioning 
these cross-refs out of the print books, I can't get through a book update 
because they are being treated as unresolved.  I *am* setting the updates not 
to update cross-refs.

Is there something I can do to make the update process ignore the unresolved 
cross-refs so that it will continue and generate the TOC and the index?  Or do 
I literally have to work with completely separated projects for each of the 
four book options?  I hope not, as I want and need to keep the main book as 
single source.

I look forward to any tips or tricks to achieve what I want to do.

Thanks,
Helen


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Re: FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Are you sure it's not generating the TOC and index? It thought Frame 
updated whatever it could, even if some things were unresolved.


Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133

On 20-Feb-13 10:01 AM, Helen Borrie wrote:

Hello list,

I'm struggling a bit here with conditionals, specifically text containing 
cross-references.  The original unstructured book is 40 chapters and 14 
appendices with all the other usual front and back matter.  It is in 
distribution as a PDF.  Naturally it has a ton of cross-references and 
navigation aids.

The book is too big to print so the current project is to break it into three 
volumes for indy publication as paper books via CreateSpace.  The one thing 
that is holding me up and driving me bananas is that, although I'm conditioning 
these cross-refs out of the print books, I can't get through a book update 
because they are being treated as unresolved.  I *am* setting the updates not 
to update cross-refs.

Is there something I can do to make the update process ignore the unresolved 
cross-refs so that it will continue and generate the TOC and the index?  Or do 
I literally have to work with completely separated projects for each of the 
four book options?  I hope not, as I want and need to keep the main book as 
single source.

I look forward to any tips or tricks to achieve what I want to do.

Thanks,
Helen


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Re: Emailing: text_format.xml

[Shmuel Wolfson]

  
  
Thanks Klause and Rick for your help. I
  got it to work with the two drop-down lists. Here's the toolbar:
  
  
  
  So far it's stable. It could be it's stable because of the limited
  amount of things that I need on it.
  
  Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133

  On 19-Feb-13 9:48 PM, Klaus Daube wrote:


  
  
  
  On 19 Feb 2013 at 12:44, Shmuel Wolfson
wrote:
  
  
  > Klaus Daube mentions
!RulerCharMenuIn in his toolbar documentation for FM
  > 7.2 and 8
(http://www.daube.ch/docu/files/fm8-etb-en.pdf), so it looks
  > like it's possible.
  
  
  Schmuel, I have not managed to get more than
one drop-down list working in a single tool bar. Look at
http://www.daube.ch/docu/files/fm9-etb-en.pdf (starting with
FM-9 things are very different). In section
Background Information I write:
  It turns out that for a stable
configuration a tool bar can contain
  only one drop down list at it’s
  right end. Therefore a
  large combined tool bar with groups for
paragraph, character
  and other handling is not possible.
  The condition at it’s right end is
not the crucial issue - all of Adobe's tool bar contain only
one drop down list. And I also have not manged to get a
toggle working...
  
  
  HTH
  Klaus Daube
  
  
  
  
  ~
  Docu + Design Daube; Schäracher 11;
CH-8053 Zürich
  Technical documentation &
consultancy; On-line and paper
  F: +41-44-422 86 25  E: d...@daube.ch 
W: www.daube.ch


  

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Frame 11 Appearance

[Joel]

I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs is
really ugly. For example:
[image: Inline image 1]
Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted and
shadowed in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame or a Windows
setting? Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to affect this. Thanks,

Joel
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RE: Frame 11 Appearance

[Jeff Coatsworth]

You can play around a bit with shading in the FM prefs, but it's pretty limited.

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Sent: February-20-13 8:50 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Frame 11 Appearance

I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs is really 
ugly. For example:
[cid:image001.jpg@01CE0F48.7C069070]
Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted and shadowed 
in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame or a Windows setting? 
Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to affect this. Thanks,

Joel
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Re: Frame 11 Appearance

[Shmuel Wolfson]

  
  
Under Edit > Preferences you can
  select the monitor size. That might sharpen the text on the tabs.
   
  Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
052-763-7133

  On 20-Feb-13 3:50 PM, Joel wrote:

I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
  Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs
  is really ugly. For example:
  
  
  Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts
are highlighted and shadowed in a strange way. Does anyone know
if this is a Frame or a Windows setting? Changing Windows
settings hasn't seemed to affect this. Thanks,
  
  
  Joel
  
  
  
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Re: Frame 11 Appearance

[Yves Barbion]

Hi Joel

I'm seeing this too (Frame 11, Windows XP), so it must be a Frame "feature".



Very ugly indeed.

I prefer the old Frame 9 tabs, without the shadow, much clearer:



@Shmuel: changing the monitor preferences doesn't help in my case.

Cheers


-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu
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Re: Importing FM files into RoboHelp

[Matt Sullivan]

If the Pagination option for RH9 doesn't say Pagination (Split topic at this 
level), or something close to that, you'll want to update to the latest patch 
for RH. That patch helps many TCS linking issues


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Feb 19, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Robert Lauriston  wrote:

> File > Project Settings > Edit (conversion settings for FrameMaker
> documents), select the paragraph style, check Pagination.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Nancy Allison  wrote:
>> I am creating a RoboHelp project out of a FrameMaker book. I can't find a 
>> way to break the imported .fm files into separate .htm files at specified 
>> paragraph styles, such as Heading 1 and Heading 2.
> ___
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Expand all elements in the Document view

[Yves Barbion]

Hi group

Is there a way to expand ALL elements in the Document view?

This topic in the FM11 Help just tells me that it is possible, but it
doesn't tell me HOW:

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/WSAC2EAE05-E688-41d5-8540-91F5E2D3981D.html

Thanks.

-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu
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Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

[David Spreadbury]

Yves,
You can expand all elements at each level by pressing and holding the Shift key 
and clicking the expand (+).

HTH
Dave Spreadbury





>
> From: Yves Barbion 
>To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:26 AM
>Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
> 
>
>Hi group
>
>Is there a way to expand ALL elements in the Document view?
>
>This topic in the FM11 Help just tells me that it is possible, but it doesn't 
>tell me HOW:
>
>http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/WSAC2EAE05-E688-41d5-8540-91F5E2D3981D.html
>
>Thanks.
>
>-- 
>Yves Barbion
>www.scripto.nu 
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Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

[Matt Sullivan]

The Esc, E X shortcut expands/collapses the current element and its siblings.


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:35 AM, David Spreadbury  wrote:

> Yves,
> You can expand all elements at each level by pressing and holding the Shift 
> key and clicking the expand (+).
> 
> HTH
> Dave Spreadbury
> 
> From: Yves Barbion 
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:26 AM
> Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
> 
> Hi group
> 
> Is there a way to expand ALL elements in the Document view?
> 
> This topic in the FM11 Help just tells me that it is possible, but it doesn't 
> tell me HOW:
> 
> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/WSAC2EAE05-E688-41d5-8540-91F5E2D3981D.html
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Yves Barbion
> www.scripto.nu
> 
> ___
> 
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RE: Frame 11 Appearance

[Bethany Lee]

I am pretty sure that is a frame thing. I went from Frame 9 to Frame 11 
recently without changing my OS and I get that ugly font and shadow too. I 
wonder whose idea that was! I hate it! It's really hard to read.

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:50 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Frame 11 Appearance

I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs is really 
ugly. For example:
[Inline image 1]
Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted and shadowed 
in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame or a Windows setting? 
Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to affect this. Thanks,

Joel
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Re: Frame 11 Appearance

[Karen Robbins]

Me too! I truly dislike the dark, drab, low-contrasty appearance of 
Frame and all the Adobe apps. Whatever happened to clarity, 
readability, contrast, and the ability to size UI text for improved 
accessibility? Even the best settings aren't good enough--it goes 
from really low contrast and poor readability to barely-tolerable 
contrast and still poor readability.


Another bad interface is recent Acrobat (Pro). UI elements are 
oversized, clunky, and take up far too much screen real estate! I 
hate having to click, click, click all over the place to reveal and 
hide stuff, and have the document jump around, resize, etc. while 
doing so. As bad on Mac as on PC, unfortunately.


(And don't get me started about Dreamweaver)

--Karen
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Re: Frame 11 Appearance

[Carol J. Elkins]

I'm so glad other people have commented about their dislike of this 
"feature." I hate it too. But it isn't that the text isn't sharp, 
it's that it has a white drop-shadow. Adobe, please make this go away 
on the next version or tell us if we can change it ourselves. It has 
made it very difficult to read the text in my tabs.


Carol

At 11:00 AM 2/20/2013, you wrote:

Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance
Message: 17

Under Edit > Preferences you can select the monitor size. That might 
sharpen the text on the tabs.



Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
052-763-7133
On 20-Feb-13 3:50 PM, Joel wrote:

I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs 
is really ugly. For example:


Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted 
and shadowed in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame 
or a Windows setting? Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to 
affect this. Thanks,


Joel


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RE: Frame 11 Appearance

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Consistent look & feel across all Adobe products = equally bad UI for all ;>)

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
Sent: February-20-13 1:55 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance

I'm so glad other people have commented about their dislike of this 
"feature." I hate it too. But it isn't that the text isn't sharp, 
it's that it has a white drop-shadow. Adobe, please make this go away 
on the next version or tell us if we can change it ourselves. It has 
made it very difficult to read the text in my tabs.

Carol

At 11:00 AM 2/20/2013, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance
>Message: 17
>
>Under Edit > Preferences you can select the monitor size. That might 
>sharpen the text on the tabs.
>
>
>Regards,
>Shmuel Wolfson
>052-763-7133
>On 20-Feb-13 3:50 PM, Joel wrote:
>>I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
>>Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs 
>>is really ugly. For example:
>>
>>Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted 
>>and shadowed in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame 
>>or a Windows setting? Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to 
>>affect this. Thanks,
>>
>>Joel

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Re: Frame 11 Appearance

[Tori Muir]

  
  
Preach it, sister! #1 thing our team HATE about Acrobat X: the
Next/Previous comment buttons for PDF edits were taken away. Why,
Adobe, why?!  It took considerable effort to convince our clients to
shift from an all-Word workflow to a Frame + PDF markup workflow,
then Adobe go and make that workflow substantially less efficient. 
In a document with hundreds of comments, scrolling through
them via the side scrollbar is a giant PITA: hard to control and
prone to missing individual comments. No exaggeration, between this
missing feature and the jumping around mentioned below, Acrobat X
adds 20% to the time needed to work through a round of edits.  But
the #2 thing that is disliked is the PlaySkool-size
gray-on-gray-on-gray UI elements now afflicting all Adobe apps.
Color is a great way to easily distinguish between tiny icons,
especially for those of us with eyeballs that have passed the
half-century mark. And the chunky, clunky font is neither attractive
nor easy to read.  Loath though I am to praise anything emanating
from Redmond, Word's interface is at present a lot better to work
with. 

Tori Muir
tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674
www.spot-on-creative.com

On 2/20/13 10:41 AM, Karen Robbins wrote:
Me too! I truly dislike the dark, drab, low-contrasty
  appearance of Frame and all the Adobe apps. Whatever happened to
  clarity, readability, contrast, and the ability to size UI text
  for improved accessibility? Even the best settings aren't good
  enough--it goes from really low contrast and poor readability to
  barely-tolerable contrast and still poor readability.
  
  
  Another bad interface is recent Acrobat (Pro). UI elements are
  oversized, clunky, and take up far too much screen real estate! I
  hate having to click, click, click all over the place to reveal
  and hide stuff, and have the document jump around, resize, etc.
  while doing so. As bad on Mac as on PC, unfortunately.
  
  
  (And don't get me started about Dreamweaver)
  
  
  --Karen
  
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Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

[Yves Barbion]

Thank you for your answers Matt and David, but neither of your approaches
expands ALL elements, for example in an EDD.




-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu
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Re: Frame 11 Appearance

[Frank Stearns]

Framers -

Glad this topic has come up.

A few months back we were invited to offer opinions to one of the 
engineers involved with UI design.


we had a 90 minute call; I came prepared with a long list generated 
after only a short stint with FM11 -- my list had most of the same 
complaints voiced in this thread, and even a few more.


Not sure how much I am able to reveal about that call (and there were 
some surprises in the conversation on both sides), but the point is 
that Adobe seems to have a genuine interest in getting this right, 
though I don't know how much momentum might be behind the UI as it now 
stands.


I tried to cover that too and suggested more user configuration 
options for the look and feel if the "standard" UI didn't work for 
people. (There are some good starts in that direction, but they do 
need to be filled out.)


I also suggested a little closer look at complaints about 
look/feel issues during beta cycles, as many of these issues had been 
brought up by beta testers.


Adobe does monitor this list, so perhaps seeing common expressions 
about the same issues adds weight. Now, that doesn't mean a "pile on;" 
I think/hope they've gotten the message. But if you do have something 
not already noted in this thread, perhaps express it briefly, tell why 
it's a problem and what would make it better.


My US$0.02. My opinions only. YMMV, etc.

Frank

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! ***
fra...@fsatools.com 
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
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Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

[David Spreadbury]

Yves,
I don't believe there is a way to expand ALL elements. Only at each level of 
indention.





>
> From: Yves Barbion 
>To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 1:59 PM
>Subject: Re: Expand all elements in the Document view
> 
>
>Thank you for your answers Matt and David, but neither of your approaches 
>expands ALL elements, for example in an EDD.
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Yves Barbion
>www.scripto.nu 
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Re: FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[Helen Borrie]

At 11:42 p.m. 20/02/2013, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:
>Are you sure it's not generating the TOC and index? It thought Frame updated 
>whatever it could, even if some things were unresolved.

I was hoping that would be so, but so far it is not.  I'll persevere because 
I'm not keen to throw the baby out with the bathwater by breaking the main 
book.  The page (re)numbering is good, the conditionals work.  I just can't get 
the update process to ignore the hidden unresolved cross-refs.  I guess there's 
something I'm not seeing yet, to explain why the TOC and the index won't update.

Thanks,
Helen

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RE: Frame 11 Appearance

[Steve Rickaby]

I wasn't going to say it. I really wasn't. I read the postings, and didn't 
post. And didn't post. I tried so hard not to post. But I failed.

The ghastly thing that Joel posted was *so* reminiscent of circa-mid-1990s Mac 
apps, when they were constrained to fake fonts like 'New York', with klunky 
'effects'.

Has Windows Frame really moved on so little?

-- 
Steve [Happily on Frame 7 for Mac for as long as I can be]
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Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

[Matt Sullivan]

Yes, that was my gentle way of saying "You're out of luck on that one"


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Yves Barbion  wrote:

> id, but neither of your approach

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Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

[yves.barb...@gmail.com]

Aha! That's what I suspected. And my original post was actually a gentle 
feature request. ;-)

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Sullivan" 
To: "Yves Barbion" 
Cc: 
Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 21:20
Yes, that was my gentle way of saying "You're out of luck on that one"


-Matt
Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning
twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 



On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Yves Barbion  wrote:id, 
but neither of your approach___


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RE: Frame 11 Appearance

[Sharon Burton]

I have spent time with anyone on the TCS team I could find, complaining
about the UI for older eyes. It's a perfectly suitable UI for 25 year old
eyes and a perfectly wretched UI for older eyes. The low contrast tiny icons
are horrible and make my head hurt after an hour or so. Stronger contrast
with color would be the best. Maybe slightly larger icons, since we are
there. 

 

And remember that Tech Comm is typically a second career, meaning by
definition we are going to have more older eyes than we might. So, this is
the wrong UI for the user base. They really need to listen to the users on
this. 

 

Stop asking the 25 year old developers if they like the UI. Ask the USERS,
most of whom are not 25 years old.

 

And then don't get me started on the UI for Acrobat. 

 

The UI for Photoshop probably works for that user base. But it's a mistake
to assume all Adobe products have that user base. Because we aren't. But
they are taking that UI and making it the default UI for all products. It's
the wrong UI for people not doing intense color work with 25 year old eyes.

 

 

sharon

 

Sharon Burton

951-369-8590

www.sharonburton.com

Twitter: sharonburton

Author of 8 Steps to Amazing Webinars, 
available on Amazon and bn.com

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Tori Muir
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:18 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance

 

Preach it, sister! #1 thing our team HATE about Acrobat X: the Next/Previous
comment buttons for PDF edits were taken away. Why, Adobe, why?!  It took
considerable effort to convince our clients to shift from an all-Word
workflow to a Frame + PDF markup workflow, then Adobe go and make that
workflow substantially less efficient.  In a document with hundreds of
comments, scrolling through them via the side scrollbar is a giant PITA:
hard to control and prone to missing individual comments. No exaggeration,
between this missing feature and the jumping around mentioned below, Acrobat
X adds 20% to the time needed to work through a round of edits.  But the #2
thing that is disliked is the PlaySkool-size gray-on-gray-on-gray UI
elements now afflicting all Adobe apps. Color is a great way to easily
distinguish between tiny icons, especially for those of us with eyeballs
that have passed the half-century mark. And the chunky, clunky font is
neither attractive nor easy to read.  Loath though I am to praise anything
emanating from Redmond, Word's interface is at present a lot better to work
with. 




Tori Muir
tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674
www.spot-on-creative.com


On 2/20/13 10:41 AM, Karen Robbins wrote: 

Me too! I truly dislike the dark, drab, low-contrasty appearance of Frame
and all the Adobe apps. Whatever happened to clarity, readability, contrast,
and the ability to size UI text for improved accessibility? Even the best
settings aren't good enough--it goes from really low contrast and poor
readability to barely-tolerable contrast and still poor readability. 

Another bad interface is recent Acrobat (Pro). UI elements are oversized,
clunky, and take up far too much screen real estate! I hate having to click,
click, click all over the place to reveal and hide stuff, and have the
document jump around, resize, etc. while doing so. As bad on Mac as on PC,
unfortunately. 

(And don't get me started about Dreamweaver) 

--Karen 
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Re: Frame 11 Appearance

[Stuart Rogers]

On 20/02/2013 3:12 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:

Framers -

Glad this topic has come up.


...

Adobe does monitor this list, so perhaps seeing common expressions about
the same issues adds weight. Now, that doesn't mean a "pile on;" I
think/hope they've gotten the message.



Thanks very much for providing Adobe with your input, Frank.  We can 
only hope and pray that whoever you spoke with has enough influence to 
actually cause a change.  It is certain that so far, Adobe has decidedly 
NOT gotten the message.  If they had, they would have fixed the UI 
before releasing FM 11.  People on this list have been complaining 
vociferously ever since the Stalin-inspired interface showed up two 
releases ago, but it has only gotten worse.


I am copying Neeraj Mishra, who recently posted to this list as "Account 
Development Manager for the print and publishing software" of Adobe. 
Are you listening, Neeraj??!!


Thanks, 

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com
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RE: Expand all elements in the Document view

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Not going to do you that much good here – this list is an “under the radar” 
channel that Adobe dips into occasionally – I’d throw it their way via the 
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform page ;>)

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
yves.barb...@gmail.com
Sent: February-20-13 3:31 PM
To: m...@mattrsullivan.com
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

Aha! That's what I suspected. And my original post was actually a gentle 
feature request. ;-)

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Sullivan" mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com>>
To: "Yves Barbion" mailto:yves.barb...@gmail.com>>
Cc: mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 21:20

Yes, that was my gentle way of saying "You're out of luck on that one"

-Matt

Matt Sullivan
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Yves Barbion 
mailto:yves.barb...@gmail.com>> wrote:


id, but neither of your approach

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Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

[Scott Prentice]

Well .. I believe that the StructureTools plugin from WestStreet 
Consulting does provide a command to do this ..


http://weststreetconsulting.com/WSC_StructureTools.htm

Grab the trial and check it out.

...scott

On 2/20/13 12:30 PM, yves.barb...@gmail.com wrote:
Aha! That's what I suspected. And my original post was actually a 
gentle feature request. ;-)


Sent from my HTC


- Reply message -
From: "Matt Sullivan" 
To: "Yves Barbion" 
Cc: 
Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 21:20


Yes, that was my gentle way of saying "You're out of luck on that one"


/-Matt/

*Matt Sullivan*
/technical communication | online training | eLearning/
*
**twitter: *@mattrsullivan 
*phone:* 714 960-6840

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Yves Barbion > wrote:



id, but neither of your approach




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Re: FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[Helen Borrie]

At 10:37 a.m. 21/02/2013, rebecca officer wrote:
>Hi Helen
> 
>Our books end up with thousands of hidden unresolved xrefs and they've never 
>been a problem.
> 
>If I'm reading this right, your TOC etc won't update, and you're blaming the 
>hidden unresolved xrefs. Right?

Well...more like "assuming they're connected to the problem".

> I think the hidden unresolved xrefs probably aren't the problem. What 
> evidence do you have that they are? Ie, exactly what errors does FM throw 
> when you try and do the update? 

Only the unresolved cross-refs...with links that go nowhere because the 
offending cross-refs are hidden.

>Generated files can be a pain for a whole bunch of reasons.

As I now find, for the first time ever.  At first, the TOC and the IDX files 
were giving unavailable font errors which I fixed by the recommended method.  
The problem fonts (Courier and Times) aren't used in the book at all - they 
were inherited from the original templates and I've never been able to kill 
them.

One other angle on the conditions is that the setup was previously on 32-bit 
WinXP, whereas now it's on 64-bit Win 7 on upgraded hardware.  I haven't built 
the big book on this setup.

I think I'm just going to have to push on until I get a breakthrough.

Kia ora!
Helen


> 
>Cheers
>Rebecca
>
>
 Helen Borrie  21/02/13 09:17 >>>
>At 11:42 p.m. 20/02/2013, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:
>>Are you sure it's not generating the TOC and index? It thought Frame updated 
>>whatever it could, even if some things were unresolved.
>
>I was hoping that would be so, but so far it is not.  I'll persevere because 
>I'm not keen to throw the baby out with the bathwater by breaking the main 
>book.  The page (re)numbering is good, the conditionals work.  I just can't 
>get the update process to ignore the hidden unresolved cross-refs.  I guess 
>there's something I'm not seeing yet, to explain why the TOC and the index 
>won't update.
>
>Thanks,
>Helen
>
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RE: Frame 11 Appearance

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

For me, the so-called "new and improved" UI in FM 11 is why I generally still 
use FM 8 for some of my older documents, and only start FM 11 when I have the 
need for features in it.

The look and feel of the recent versions of FM are the worst (some good 
features, but mostly bad) since I began using FrameMaker back in 1988.

I beta-tested FM 3 and 5 a long time ago, and have not been involved in any 
more since then. So, Frank, I am also glad you are raising your concerns during 
these more recent betas - I hope you are heard by _somebody_ in authority at 
Adobe to make a decision to fix this someday.

Z

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Rogers
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:58 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Cc: nmis...@adobe.com
Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance

On 20/02/2013 3:12 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:
> Framers -
>
> Glad this topic has come up.

...
> Adobe does monitor this list, so perhaps seeing common expressions about the 
> same issues adds weight. Now, that doesn't mean a "pile on;" I think/hope 
> they've gotten the message.

Thanks very much for providing Adobe with your input, Frank.  We can only hope 
and pray that whoever you spoke with has enough influence to actually cause a 
change.  It is certain that so far, Adobe has decidedly NOT gotten the message. 
 If they had, they would have fixed the UI before releasing FM 11.  People on 
this list have been complaining vociferously ever since the Stalin-inspired 
interface showed up two releases ago, but it has only gotten worse.

I am copying Neeraj Mishra, who recently posted to this list as "Account 
Development Manager for the print and publishing software" of Adobe. 
Are you listening, Neeraj??!!

Thanks, 

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

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Re: Frame 11 Appearance

[rebecca officer]

Hi everyone

I actually raised this as a bug with Adobe when I first saw FM11. It's worse 
than just ugly for me; that drop-shadow's a bit of a migraine trigger. I'm 
really hoping they'll make it optional!

Cheers
Rebecca


>>> "Carol J. Elkins"  02/21/13 7:57 AM >>>
I'm so glad other people have commented about their dislike of this 
"feature." I hate it too. But it isn't that the text isn't sharp, 
it's that it has a white drop-shadow. Adobe, please make this go away 
on the next version or tell us if we can change it ourselves. It has 
made it very difficult to read the text in my tabs.

Carol

At 11:00 AM 2/20/2013, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance
>Message: 17
>
>Under Edit > Preferences you can select the monitor size. That might 
>sharpen the text on the tabs.
>
>
>Regards,
>Shmuel Wolfson
>052-763-7133
>On 20-Feb-13 3:50 PM, Joel wrote:
>>I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
>>Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs 
>>is really ugly. For example:
>>
>>Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted 
>>and shadowed in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame 
>>or a Windows setting? Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to 
>>affect this. Thanks,
>>
>>Joel

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Re: FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[rebecca officer]

Hi Helen
 
Our books end up with thousands of hidden unresolved xrefs and they've never 
been a problem.
 
If I'm reading this right, your TOC etc won't update, and you're blaming the 
hidden unresolved xrefs. Right?
 
I think the hidden unresolved xrefs probably aren't the problem. What evidence 
do you have that they are? Ie, exactly what errors does FM throw when you try 
and do the update? Generated files can be a pain for a whole bunch of reasons.
 
Cheers
Rebecca


>>> Helen Borrie  21/02/13 09:17 >>>
At 11:42 p.m. 20/02/2013, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:
>Are you sure it's not generating the TOC and index? It thought Frame updated 
>whatever it could, even if some things were unresolved.

I was hoping that would be so, but so far it is not.  I'll persevere because 
I'm not keen to throw the baby out with the bathwater by breaking the main 
book.  The page (re)numbering is good, the conditionals work.  I just can't get 
the update process to ignore the hidden unresolved cross-refs.  I guess there's 
something I'm not seeing yet, to explain why the TOC and the index won't update.

Thanks,
Helen

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"FrameMaker has detected a problem and must quit" Really?!

[Alan T Litchfield]

About the network switch over. We have just done that and how well 
applications play depends upon what protocols and configurations are set 
up, and how switches are managed (oh so many variables).

Certainly, when we had Novell (which served well for decades) it had an 
annoying habit of resetting SMB connections periodically (atalk was 
dropped a few years prior). The new MS network doesn't seem to do that, 
or if it does, it seems to be masked.

I would suggest that if you have any issues after the switch, that you 
communicate your concerns immediately with the tech guys because there 
may be a fix they can offer.

One thing that can be ruled out as the problem is FM.

Alan

On 19/02/13 10:40 AM, rebecca officer wrote:
> Hi Gary
> That's interesting. It sounds very like the problems we've seen: 3000+
> page docs, lots of conditional text, sometimes can't create a PDF over
> the network.
> We're using a Novell server. Our IS team have checked for choke points,
> overloading etc, and can't find any problems. They reckon it's just
> Novell. We're going to be changing to a Microsoft server anyway, and
> they reckon that'll be happier with Frame. I hope they're right!
> Like you, we've "resolved" the issue by copying all the components to a
> local drive before creating the PDF. We're ok with having to do that
> part of the workflow locally, as long as we can keep editing the source
> files over the network.
> Cheers
> Rebecca
>
>-- 
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941, Auckland
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz

FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[Helen Borrie]

Hello list,

I'm struggling a bit here with conditionals, specifically text containing 
cross-references.  The original unstructured book is 40 chapters and 14 
appendices with all the other usual front and back matter.  It is in 
distribution as a PDF.  Naturally it has a ton of cross-references and 
navigation aids. 

The book is too big to print so the current project is to break it into three 
volumes for indy publication as paper books via CreateSpace.  The one thing 
that is holding me up and driving me bananas is that, although I'm conditioning 
these cross-refs out of the print books, I can't get through a book update 
because they are being treated as unresolved.  I *am* setting the updates not 
to update cross-refs.

Is there something I can do to make the update process ignore the unresolved 
cross-refs so that it will continue and generate the TOC and the index?  Or do 
I literally have to work with completely separated projects for each of the 
four book options?  I hope not, as I want and need to keep the main book as 
single source. 

I look forward to any tips or tricks to achieve what I want to do.  

Thanks,
Helen

FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
052-763-7133

On 20-Feb-13 10:01 AM, Helen Borrie wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> I'm struggling a bit here with conditionals, specifically text containing 
> cross-references.  The original unstructured book is 40 chapters and 14 
> appendices with all the other usual front and back matter.  It is in 
> distribution as a PDF.  Naturally it has a ton of cross-references and 
> navigation aids.
>
> The book is too big to print so the current project is to break it into three 
> volumes for indy publication as paper books via CreateSpace.  The one thing 
> that is holding me up and driving me bananas is that, although I'm 
> conditioning these cross-refs out of the print books, I can't get through a 
> book update because they are being treated as unresolved.  I *am* setting the 
> updates not to update cross-refs.
>
> Is there something I can do to make the update process ignore the unresolved 
> cross-refs so that it will continue and generate the TOC and the index?  Or 
> do I literally have to work with completely separated projects for each of 
> the four book options?  I hope not, as I want and need to keep the main book 
> as single source.
>
> I look forward to any tips or tricks to achieve what I want to do.
>
> Thanks,
> Helen
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as shmuelw1 at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
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FM8 u/s: Conditional cross-refs

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Are you sure it's not generating the TOC and index? It thought Frame 
updated whatever it could, even if some things were unresolved.

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133

On 20-Feb-13 10:01 AM, Helen Borrie wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> I'm struggling a bit here with conditionals, specifically text containing 
> cross-references.  The original unstructured book is 40 chapters and 14 
> appendices with all the other usual front and back matter.  It is in 
> distribution as a PDF.  Naturally it has a ton of cross-references and 
> navigation aids.
>
> The book is too big to print so the current project is to break it into three 
> volumes for indy publication as paper books via CreateSpace.  The one thing 
> that is holding me up and driving me bananas is that, although I'm 
> conditioning these cross-refs out of the print books, I can't get through a 
> book update because they are being treated as unresolved.  I *am* setting the 
> updates not to update cross-refs.
>
> Is there something I can do to make the update process ignore the unresolved 
> cross-refs so that it will continue and generate the TOC and the index?  Or 
> do I literally have to work with completely separated projects for each of 
> the four book options?  I hope not, as I want and need to keep the main book 
> as single source.
>
> I look forward to any tips or tricks to achieve what I want to do.
>
> Thanks,
> Helen
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as shmuelw1 at gmail.com.
>
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Emailing: text_format.xml

[Shmuel Wolfson]

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Frame 11 Appearance

[Joel]

I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs is
really ugly. For example:
[image: Inline image 1]
Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted and
shadowed in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame or a Windows
setting? Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to affect this. Thanks,

Joel
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Frame 11 Appearance

[Jeff Coatsworth]

You can play around a bit with shading in the FM prefs, but it's pretty limited.

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Sent: February-20-13 8:50 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Frame 11 Appearance

I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs is really 
ugly. For example:
[cid:image001.jpg at 01CE0F48.7C069070]
Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted and shadowed 
in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame or a Windows setting? 
Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to affect this. Thanks,

Joel
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Frame 11 Appearance

[Shmuel Wolfson]

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Frame 11 Appearance

[Yves Barbion]

Hi Joel

I'm seeing this too (Frame 11, Windows XP), so it must be a Frame "feature".



Very ugly indeed.

I prefer the old Frame 9 tabs, without the shadow, much clearer:



@Shmuel: changing the monitor preferences doesn't help in my case.

Cheers


-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu
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Importing FM files into RoboHelp

[Matt Sullivan]

If the Pagination option for RH9 doesn't say Pagination (Split topic at this 
level), or something close to that, you'll want to update to the latest patch 
for RH. That patch helps many TCS linking issues


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Feb 19, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Robert Lauriston  wrote:

> File > Project Settings > Edit (conversion settings for FrameMaker
> documents), select the paragraph style, check Pagination.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Nancy Allison  wrote:
>> I am creating a RoboHelp project out of a FrameMaker book. I can't find a 
>> way to break the imported .fm files into separate .htm files at specified 
>> paragraph styles, such as Heading 1 and Heading 2.
> ___
> 
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Expand all elements in the Document view

[Yves Barbion]

Hi group

Is there a way to expand ALL elements in the Document view?

This topic in the FM11 Help just tells me that it is possible, but it
doesn't tell me HOW:

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/WSAC2EAE05-E688-41d5-8540-91F5E2D3981D.html

Thanks.

-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu
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Expand all elements in the Document view

[David Spreadbury]

Yves,
You can expand all elements at each level by pressing and holding the Shift key 
and clicking the expand (+).

HTH
Dave Spreadbury





>
> From: Yves Barbion 
>To: framers at lists.frameusers.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:26 AM
>Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
> 
>
>Hi group
>
>Is there a way to expand ALL elements in the Document view?
>
>This topic in the FM11 Help just tells me that it is possible, but it doesn't 
>tell me HOW:
>
>http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/WSAC2EAE05-E688-41d5-8540-91F5E2D3981D.html
>
>Thanks.
>
>-- 
>Yves Barbion
>www.scripto.nu 
>___
>
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Expand all elements in the Document view

[Matt Sullivan]

The Esc, E X shortcut expands/collapses the current element and its siblings.


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:35 AM, David Spreadbury  wrote:

> Yves,
> You can expand all elements at each level by pressing and holding the Shift 
> key and clicking the expand (+).
> 
> HTH
> Dave Spreadbury
> 
> From: Yves Barbion 
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:26 AM
> Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
> 
> Hi group
> 
> Is there a way to expand ALL elements in the Document view?
> 
> This topic in the FM11 Help just tells me that it is possible, but it doesn't 
> tell me HOW:
> 
> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/WSAC2EAE05-E688-41d5-8540-91F5E2D3981D.html
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Yves Barbion
> www.scripto.nu
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as dspreadb at yahoo.com.
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> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
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Frame 11 Appearance

[Bethany Lee]

I am pretty sure that is a frame thing. I went from Frame 9 to Frame 11 
recently without changing my OS and I get that ugly font and shadow too. I 
wonder whose idea that was! I hate it! It's really hard to read.

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:50 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Frame 11 Appearance

I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs is really 
ugly. For example:
[Inline image 1]
Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted and shadowed 
in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame or a Windows setting? 
Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to affect this. Thanks,

Joel
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Frame 11 Appearance

[Karen Robbins]

Me too! I truly dislike the dark, drab, low-contrasty appearance of 
Frame and all the Adobe apps. Whatever happened to clarity, 
readability, contrast, and the ability to size UI text for improved 
accessibility? Even the best settings aren't good enough--it goes 
from really low contrast and poor readability to barely-tolerable 
contrast and still poor readability.

Another bad interface is recent Acrobat (Pro). UI elements are 
oversized, clunky, and take up far too much screen real estate! I 
hate having to click, click, click all over the place to reveal and 
hide stuff, and have the document jump around, resize, etc. while 
doing so. As bad on Mac as on PC, unfortunately.

(And don't get me started about Dreamweaver)

--Karen

Frame 11 Appearance

[Carol J. Elkins]

I'm so glad other people have commented about their dislike of this 
"feature." I hate it too. But it isn't that the text isn't sharp, 
it's that it has a white drop-shadow. Adobe, please make this go away 
on the next version or tell us if we can change it ourselves. It has 
made it very difficult to read the text in my tabs.

Carol

At 11:00 AM 2/20/2013, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance
>Message: 17
>
>Under Edit > Preferences you can select the monitor size. That might 
>sharpen the text on the tabs.
>
>
>Regards,
>Shmuel Wolfson
>052-763-7133
>On 20-Feb-13 3:50 PM, Joel wrote:
>>I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
>>Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs 
>>is really ugly. For example:
>>
>>Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted 
>>and shadowed in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame 
>>or a Windows setting? Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to 
>>affect this. Thanks,
>>
>>Joel

Frame 11 Appearance

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Consistent look & feel across all Adobe products = equally bad UI for all ;>)

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
Sent: February-20-13 1:55 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance

I'm so glad other people have commented about their dislike of this 
"feature." I hate it too. But it isn't that the text isn't sharp, 
it's that it has a white drop-shadow. Adobe, please make this go away 
on the next version or tell us if we can change it ourselves. It has 
made it very difficult to read the text in my tabs.

Carol

At 11:00 AM 2/20/2013, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance
>Message: 17
>
>Under Edit > Preferences you can select the monitor size. That might 
>sharpen the text on the tabs.
>
>
>Regards,
>Shmuel Wolfson
>052-763-7133
>On 20-Feb-13 3:50 PM, Joel wrote:
>>I am on Windows 7, using Frame 11.
>>Ever since moving to Win 7 and Frame 11, the appearance of my tabs 
>>is really ugly. For example:
>>
>>Not sure if you can tell from this, but the fonts are highlighted 
>>and shadowed in a strange way. Does anyone know if this is a Frame 
>>or a Windows setting? Changing Windows settings hasn't seemed to 
>>affect this. Thanks,
>>
>>Joel

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Frame 11 Appearance

[Tori Muir]

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Expand all elements in the Document view

[Yves Barbion]

Thank you for your answers Matt and David, but neither of your approaches
expands ALL elements, for example in an EDD.




-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu
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Frame 11 Appearance

[Frank Stearns]

Framers -

Glad this topic has come up.

A few months back we were invited to offer opinions to one of the 
engineers involved with UI design.

we had a 90 minute call; I came prepared with a long list generated 
after only a short stint with FM11 -- my list had most of the same 
complaints voiced in this thread, and even a few more.

Not sure how much I am able to reveal about that call (and there were 
some surprises in the conversation on both sides), but the point is 
that Adobe seems to have a genuine interest in getting this right, 
though I don't know how much momentum might be behind the UI as it now 
stands.

I tried to cover that too and suggested more user configuration 
options for the look and feel if the "standard" UI didn't work for 
people. (There are some good starts in that direction, but they do 
need to be filled out.)

I also suggested a little closer look at complaints about 
look/feel issues during beta cycles, as many of these issues had been 
brought up by beta testers.

Adobe does monitor this list, so perhaps seeing common expressions 
about the same issues adds weight. Now, that doesn't mean a "pile on;" 
I think/hope they've gotten the message. But if you do have something 
not already noted in this thread, perhaps express it briefly, tell why 
it's a problem and what would make it better.

My US$0.02. My opinions only. YMMV, etc.

Frank

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! ***
franks at fsatools.com 
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
USA Voice: 360-892-3970  http://www.fsatools.com

Expand all elements in the Document view

[David Spreadbury]

Yves,
I don't believe there is a way to expand ALL elements. Only at each level of 
indention.





>
> From: Yves Barbion 
>To: framers at lists.frameusers.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 1:59 PM
>Subject: Re: Expand all elements in the Document view
> 
>
>Thank you for your answers Matt and David, but neither of your approaches 
>expands ALL elements, for example in an EDD.
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Yves Barbion
>www.scripto.nu 
>___
>
>
>You are currently subscribed to framers as dspreadb at yahoo.com.
>
>Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>or visit 
>http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com
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>http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
>
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Frame 11 Appearance

[Steve Rickaby]

I wasn't going to say it. I really wasn't. I read the postings, and didn't 
post. And didn't post. I tried so hard not to post. But I failed.

The ghastly thing that Joel posted was *so* reminiscent of circa-mid-1990s Mac 
apps, when they were constrained to fake fonts like 'New York', with klunky 
'effects'.

Has Windows Frame really moved on so little?

-- 
Steve [Happily on Frame 7 for Mac for as long as I can be]

Expand all elements in the Document view

[Matt Sullivan]

Yes, that was my gentle way of saying "You're out of luck on that one"


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Yves Barbion  wrote:

> id, but neither of your approach

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Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

[yves.barb...@gmail.com]

Aha! That's what I suspected. And my original post was actually a gentle 
feature request. ;-)

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Sullivan" 
To: "Yves Barbion" 
Cc: 
Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 21:20
Yes, that was my gentle way of saying "You're out of luck on that one"


-Matt
Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning
twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 



On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Yves Barbion  
wrote:id, but neither of your approach
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Frame 11 Appearance

[Sharon Burton]

I have spent time with anyone on the TCS team I could find, complaining
about the UI for older eyes. It's a perfectly suitable UI for 25 year old
eyes and a perfectly wretched UI for older eyes. The low contrast tiny icons
are horrible and make my head hurt after an hour or so. Stronger contrast
with color would be the best. Maybe slightly larger icons, since we are
there. 



And remember that Tech Comm is typically a second career, meaning by
definition we are going to have more older eyes than we might. So, this is
the wrong UI for the user base. They really need to listen to the users on
this. 



Stop asking the 25 year old developers if they like the UI. Ask the USERS,
most of whom are not 25 years old.



And then don't get me started on the UI for Acrobat. 



The UI for Photoshop probably works for that user base. But it's a mistake
to assume all Adobe products have that user base. Because we aren't. But
they are taking that UI and making it the default UI for all products. It's
the wrong UI for people not doing intense color work with 25 year old eyes.





sharon



Sharon Burton

951-369-8590

www.sharonburton.com

Twitter: sharonburton

Author of 8 Steps to Amazing Webinars, 
available on Amazon and bn.com



From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Tori Muir
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:18 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance



Preach it, sister! #1 thing our team HATE about Acrobat X: the Next/Previous
comment buttons for PDF edits were taken away. Why, Adobe, why?!  It took
considerable effort to convince our clients to shift from an all-Word
workflow to a Frame + PDF markup workflow, then Adobe go and make that
workflow substantially less efficient.  In a document with hundreds of
comments, scrolling through them via the side scrollbar is a giant PITA:
hard to control and prone to missing individual comments. No exaggeration,
between this missing feature and the jumping around mentioned below, Acrobat
X adds 20% to the time needed to work through a round of edits.  But the #2
thing that is disliked is the PlaySkool-size gray-on-gray-on-gray UI
elements now afflicting all Adobe apps. Color is a great way to easily
distinguish between tiny icons, especially for those of us with eyeballs
that have passed the half-century mark. And the chunky, clunky font is
neither attractive nor easy to read.  Loath though I am to praise anything
emanating from Redmond, Word's interface is at present a lot better to work
with. 




Tori Muir
tmuir at spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674
www.spot-on-creative.com


On 2/20/13 10:41 AM, Karen Robbins wrote: 

Me too! I truly dislike the dark, drab, low-contrasty appearance of Frame
and all the Adobe apps. Whatever happened to clarity, readability, contrast,
and the ability to size UI text for improved accessibility? Even the best
settings aren't good enough--it goes from really low contrast and poor
readability to barely-tolerable contrast and still poor readability. 

Another bad interface is recent Acrobat (Pro). UI elements are oversized,
clunky, and take up far too much screen real estate! I hate having to click,
click, click all over the place to reveal and hide stuff, and have the
document jump around, resize, etc. while doing so. As bad on Mac as on PC,
unfortunately. 

(And don't get me started about Dreamweaver) 

--Karen 
___ 


You are currently subscribed to framers as tmuir at spot-on-creative.com. 

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Frame 11 Appearance

[Stuart Rogers]

On 20/02/2013 3:12 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:
> Framers -
>
> Glad this topic has come up.

...
> Adobe does monitor this list, so perhaps seeing common expressions about
> the same issues adds weight. Now, that doesn't mean a "pile on;" I
> think/hope they've gotten the message.
>

Thanks very much for providing Adobe with your input, Frank.  We can 
only hope and pray that whoever you spoke with has enough influence to 
actually cause a change.  It is certain that so far, Adobe has decidedly 
NOT gotten the message.  If they had, they would have fixed the UI 
before releasing FM 11.  People on this list have been complaining 
vociferously ever since the Stalin-inspired interface showed up two 
releases ago, but it has only gotten worse.

I am copying Neeraj Mishra, who recently posted to this list as "Account 
Development Manager for the print and publishing software" of Adobe. 
Are you listening, Neeraj??!!

Thanks, 

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com

Expand all elements in the Document view

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Not going to do you that much good here ? this list is an ?under the radar? 
channel that Adobe dips into occasionally ? I?d throw it their way via the 
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform page ;>)

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of yves.barb...@gmail.com
Sent: February-20-13 3:31 PM
To: matt at mattrsullivan.com
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Expand all elements in the Document view

Aha! That's what I suspected. And my original post was actually a gentle 
feature request. ;-)

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Sullivan" mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com>>
To: "Yves Barbion" mailto:yves.barbion at gmail.com>>
Cc: mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>>
Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 21:20

Yes, that was my gentle way of saying "You're out of luck on that one"

-Matt

Matt Sullivan
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan<http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>
phone: 714 960-6840

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Yves Barbion mailto:yves.barbion at gmail.com>> wrote:


id, but neither of your approach

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Expand all elements in the Document view

[Scott Prentice]

Well .. I believe that the StructureTools plugin from WestStreet 
Consulting does provide a command to do this ..

 http://weststreetconsulting.com/WSC_StructureTools.htm

Grab the trial and check it out.

...scott

On 2/20/13 12:30 PM, yves.barbion at gmail.com wrote:
> Aha! That's what I suspected. And my original post was actually a 
> gentle feature request. ;-)
>
> Sent from my HTC
>
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Matt Sullivan" 
> To: "Yves Barbion" 
> Cc: 
> Subject: Expand all elements in the Document view
> Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 21:20
>
>
> Yes, that was my gentle way of saying "You're out of luck on that one"
>
>
> /-Matt/
>
> *Matt Sullivan*
> /technical communication | online training | eLearning/
> *
> **twitter: *@mattrsullivan <http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>
> *phone:* 714 960-6840
>
> On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Yves Barbion  <mailto:yves.barbion at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> id, but neither of your approach
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as sp10 at leximation.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sp10%40leximation.com
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Frame 11 Appearance

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

For me, the so-called "new and improved" UI in FM 11 is why I generally still 
use FM 8 for some of my older documents, and only start FM 11 when I have the 
need for features in it.

The look and feel of the recent versions of FM are the worst (some good 
features, but mostly bad) since I began using FrameMaker back in 1988.

I beta-tested FM 3 and 5 a long time ago, and have not been involved in any 
more since then. So, Frank, I am also glad you are raising your concerns during 
these more recent betas - I hope you are heard by _somebody_ in authority at 
Adobe to make a decision to fix this someday.

Z

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Stuart Rogers
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:58 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Cc: nmishra at adobe.com
Subject: Re: Frame 11 Appearance

On 20/02/2013 3:12 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:
> Framers -
>
> Glad this topic has come up.

...
> Adobe does monitor this list, so perhaps seeing common expressions about the 
> same issues adds weight. Now, that doesn't mean a "pile on;" I think/hope 
> they've gotten the message.

Thanks very much for providing Adobe with your input, Frank.  We can only hope 
and pray that whoever you spoke with has enough influence to actually cause a 
change.  It is certain that so far, Adobe has decidedly NOT gotten the message. 
 If they had, they would have fixed the UI before releasing FM 11.  People on 
this list have been complaining vociferously ever since the Stalin-inspired 
interface showed up two releases ago, but it has only gotten worse.

I am copying Neeraj Mishra, who recently posted to this list as "Account 
Development Manager for the print and publishing software" of Adobe. 
Are you listening, Neeraj??!!

Thanks, 

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325