Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend / naming names

[C Keefer]

I agree with Amanda,
"naming aggressors should come from the people who have personally been
hurt by them…" - and only by them. I agree, that one should
"make sure to be careful about who gets to tell their own stories."  Also,
repeating hearsay is obviously not acceptable.

But beyond that - though I haven't read every single post these last few
days, I do see we have two men telling us this listserve is not the
appropriate place to name names (and not for the above reasons).

I think those who wish to name their own attackers/aggressors can do so
anywhere they f**ing please, and should not be told by men where it is
appropriate to do so.

Though a separate issue - I've been severely slandered by men on several of
these listserves (not for sexual, but professional issues) and I am so
tired of men who think they can say whatever they please on these lists, no
matter how libelous and harmful. One was forced by his employer to write a
multiple page apology letter to the other party involved in his fictional
incident - but no apology to me, and no public correction of the false
accusation, though he was clearly wrong and libelous. Simply put, he used
this list for slander and falsehoods. This is not always a welcoming
community, as Pip described.

Do not try to tell us what we are allowed to say and where, about our own
experiences, when this kind of behavior continues.

Cindy Keefer



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Re: [Frameworks] Asking for a friend / naming names

[Kathryn Ramey]

Hi Amanda, Evan & Sam and everyone else

Some excellent points have been raised all around.

Why are there no great women (Asian, black, Latinx etc..) film artists on  
lists that purport to name the greatest of all time?

What is the purpose of outing offenders?(Amanda made great points about this!!) 
it runs the risk of harming the survivors all over again.

What my post yesterday was trying to point to was thinking about how our 
institutions (and we do have them even if they look more artisan than those of 
academia and the art world) reproduce oppressive structures and allow for 
sexual predators to also be “great artists”.

People can and should come out against their offenders if they wish - but there 
is plenty of other work to do. At our collectives, where we teach, and the 
festivals and venues that screen our work we need to think about whose work we 
privilege and why.  Who is given access, whose voices are heard most frequently 
whose are silent? 

This may not be as salacious or satisfying as outing offenders but it will 
ultimately be more impactful in changing the way our community(s) work. And 
that is way better in my opinion than knowing that this or that “great white 
artist” slept with his students. 

I read this article by a woman who rewatched Manhattan in light of Woody Allen 
marrying his adopted daughter and the allegations by his other daughter and 
son... what she observed is that he was hiding in plain sight.  Here is a link 
- 
https://www.alternet.org/culture/woody-allen-both-genius-and-predator-why-mariel-hemingways-new-revelation-matters

I think it’s possible to look at some of this work and similarly see traces of 
the misogyny behind it. It is perfectly OK to view these things through 21st 
century eyes. In fact I depend on that. 

All the best,
Kathryn Ramey

Sorry for the brevity of my reply. I am sending this from my cellphone.

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