Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator? Phillips Miller System/SD Audio

[Mike Stoltz]

Scott, all

Been meaning to send this in response to the discussion but it took me a
moment to dig up the link. This is different than what the initial question
was asking but maybe useful or exciting for folks working with generating
alternate/DIY soundtracks (esp 35mm).

The Phillips Miller System was briefly used by the BBC and involved cutting
a soundtrack directly into opaque film emulsion. One could imagine rigging
up something similar with the desktop laser cutter/engravers that are
popular with the crafting community. These laser cutters are not especially
powerful but used for die-cutting fabric, cardboard, and balsa wood and I
have seen many examples people using them to "engrave" through a layer of
paint, so I imagine you could set the intensity to something that would
"etch" through emulsion but leave the base intact. Of course legibility and
precision will always be a challenge but could be a really exciting area to
experiment in.
http://www.orbem.co.uk/tapes/pm.htm

As for traditionally made opticals here in the US, SD Audio shoots very
good opticals that are then processed at Fotokem and offers a good rate
compared to the domestic competition.

http://www.simondanielsound.com/ 

feel free to mention that I sent you if you end up contacting him.

Best,
Mike Stoltz


On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:55 PM 
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>1. new exp film reviews (david at lake ivan)
>2. Re: optical soundtrack generator? / Canada (lindsay mcintyre)
>3. New Work on Gallery Platform LA,  Screening at REDCAT and
>   beyond! (mariah garnett)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:11:22 -0400
> From: david at lake ivan 
> To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> Subject: [Frameworks] new exp film reviews
> Message-ID: 
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> Hi Folks,
>
> I have been writing a regular column with reviews of new experimental film
> work for 18 years. Since 2015, it has been published under the title "Film
> Scratches" on the Film International website, which has a beautiful brand
> new design, and is now easier to read and navigate.
>
> My latest column has just come out, and features reviews of new work by
> Adonia Bouchehri, Dave Baeumler, Ken Paul Rosenthal, Veronica Lee, and Bill
> Brown with Sabine Gruffat:
>
> http://filmint.nu/film-scratches-september-2020-david-finkelstein/
>
> David Finkelstein
> da...@lakeivan.org
> www.lakeivan.org
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>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:54:24 -0700
> From: lindsay mcintyre 
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator? / Canada
> Message-ID:
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> cad0ed5a9y8v4u7+wvceqmorsxnwdzw8moh_n3tymnyjrq7r...@mail.gmail.com>
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>
> yes, they shoot opticals and it's excellent work.
> http://www.skylightstudios.ca/
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 7:21 AM Transit Audio Services Ltd. <
> transitau...@skylightstudios.ca> wrote:
>
> > Greetings
> >
> > Transit Audio Services can transfer to/from16mm & 35mm optical sound &
> > mag. and 1/4" tape & DATs
> >
> > Regards
> > __
> > Dean Allen
> >
> > Transit Audio Services Ltd.
> > Toronto, Ontario, Canada
> > 416-977-9740
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> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:23:07 -0400
> From: mariah garnett 
> To: mariah garnett 
> Subject: [Frameworks] New Work on Gallery Platform LA,  Screening at
> REDCAT and beyond!
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator? / Canada

[lindsay mcintyre]

yes, they shoot opticals and it's excellent work.
http://www.skylightstudios.ca/


On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 7:21 AM Transit Audio Services Ltd. <
transitau...@skylightstudios.ca> wrote:

> Greetings
>
> Transit Audio Services can transfer to/from16mm & 35mm optical sound &
> mag. and 1/4" tape & DATs
>
> Regards
> __
> Dean Allen
>
> Transit Audio Services Ltd.
> Toronto, Ontario, Canada
> 416-977-9740
> ___
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator? / Canada

[Transit Audio Services Ltd.]

Greetings

Transit Audio Services can transfer to/from16mm & 35mm optical sound & mag. and 
1/4" tape & DATs

Regards
__
Dean Allen

Transit Audio Services Ltd.
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
416-977-9740
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Scott Dorsey]

>   Hi Pip, I?d be happy to use an optical sound camera or lab equivalent

Any lab should be willing to make you an optical track.  Trackwise is gone,
but I know that Colorlab and Fotokem have sound cameras.  I can do 16mm but
not 35mm any longer.
--scott
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[hi-beam]

  
  
  


Hi Pip, I’d be happy to use an optical sound camera or lab equivalent - 
if anyone knows of one at a reasonable price please let me know. But I’m also 
pursuing the digital solution and will post any results here. Thanks everyone. 
Scott


Scott Starkwww.scottstark.com

  
From: FrameWorks  on behalf of 
FrameWorks Admin 
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 5:29 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator? It’s easy enough to use 
a real optical sound camera (assuming you have done all the cross-mod tests and 
printing and developing and density tests…) and yes you can get them for free, 
but I think Scott’s project is not to use a traditional lab camera with sound 
stock but to use alternate and modern desktop equipment.
- Pip Chodorov



> On Sep 15, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Francisco Torres  wrote:
> 
> 'Scott wrote - '...to take an audio source (WAV or MP3,
> or direct audio from a mic or line in) and convert it to an optical track.''
> 
> Now I get it Interesting project for sure!  Those optical track
> printers must be inepensive now, getting the raw stock they use seems
> trickier. The film recorder problem, as others have mentioned, is that
> it is designed to create single frames. Also I dont know if they allow
> to print in the optical track area, Interesting project for sure!
> Hope this project works out and please keep us informed about it.

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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Sandy McLennan]

Just imagined trying: contact printing previously made digital prints on 
transparency, sized right for optical track, and generated from some source you 
were already working with in your film. Set the length of them and the 
repeats/cut-ups/overlaps as you like it.

Sandy McLennan

> On Sep 14, 2020, at 8:28 PM, FrameWorks Admin  wrote:
> 
> It’s easy enough to use a real optical sound camera (assuming you have done 
> all the cross-mod tests and printing and developing and density tests…) and 
> yes you can get them for free, but I think Scott’s project is not to use a 
> traditional lab camera with sound stock but to use alternate and modern 
> desktop equipment.
> - Pip Chodorov
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Francisco Torres  wrote:
>> 
>> 'Scott wrote - '...to take an audio source (WAV or MP3,
>> or direct audio from a mic or line in) and convert it to an optical track.''
>> 
>> Now I get it Interesting project for sure!  Those optical track
>> printers must be inepensive now, getting the raw stock they use seems
>> trickier. The film recorder problem, as others have mentioned, is that
>> it is designed to create single frames. Also I dont know if they allow
>> to print in the optical track area, Interesting project for sure!
>> Hope this project works out and please keep us informed about it.
> 
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[FrameWorks Admin]

It’s easy enough to use a real optical sound camera (assuming you have done all 
the cross-mod tests and printing and developing and density tests…) and yes you 
can get them for free, but I think Scott’s project is not to use a traditional 
lab camera with sound stock but to use alternate and modern desktop equipment.
- Pip Chodorov



> On Sep 15, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Francisco Torres  wrote:
> 
> 'Scott wrote - '...to take an audio source (WAV or MP3,
> or direct audio from a mic or line in) and convert it to an optical track.''
> 
> Now I get it Interesting project for sure!  Those optical track
> printers must be inepensive now, getting the raw stock they use seems
> trickier. The film recorder problem, as others have mentioned, is that
> it is designed to create single frames. Also I dont know if they allow
> to print in the optical track area, Interesting project for sure!
> Hope this project works out and please keep us informed about it.

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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Francisco Torres]

'Scott wrote - '...to take an audio source (WAV or MP3,
or direct audio from a mic or line in) and convert it to an optical track.''

Now I get it Interesting project for sure!  Those optical track
printers must be inepensive now, getting the raw stock they use seems
trickier. The film recorder problem, as others have mentioned, is that
it is designed to create single frames. Also I dont know if they allow
to print in the optical track area, Interesting project for sure!
Hope this project works out and please keep us informed about it.
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[graemehogg]

Looks like a nice project, would love to see some outcomes Scott if you up 
for sharing tings like this.


I was planning on using  mmcwilliams processing scripts to print out 
discrete frames onto paper (24 per second) from test audio sources that 
would probably be wavs. I was then going to photograph each strip into the 
soundtrack area using gates wide enough to cover this, for 16 a super 16 
gate, for 35mm a full gate. (using punched paper...)


Theres a really good section in Donald McWilliams Animated musician film 
about Norman McLarens projects where you see him doing this with waveform 
cards, and making multiple exposures for each frame to produce 'chords'.


https://www.nfb.ca/film/norman_mclaren_animated_musician/

As someone mentioned before this would leave you with frame line 'gaps' 
which would produce some kind of noise, but predictable enough to possibly 
filer it out with hardware. Im not sure how this problem manifests in 
McLarens films if at all...


take care.


||
NACHLEBEN FILM LAB AND ARCHIVE
http://www.nachleben.org.uk
CUBE CINEMA. BRISTOL
http://www.cubecinema.com/
||

On Sun, 13 Sep 2020, sst...@hi-beam.net wrote:


Hi Francisco, no my original post was to take an audio source (WAV or MP3,
or direct audio from a mic or line in) and convert it to an optical track.
This could either be exposed directly onto 35mm film (in the optical track
area) using a device that labs use,  or generate a digital image that I
could print onto the film using a 35mm film recorder that I have.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: FrameWorks  On Behalf Of
Francisco Torres
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 5:48 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

so the original poster idea is to convert the optical sound  track into an
image that could be printed on the frame area to be projected as a whole
image as we listen to the sound? is that it?

2020-09-11 8:01 GMT-04:00, graemeh...@irational.org
:


Agfa will manufacture this stock if they get a big enough order, like
every single (exp) film maker in the world ordering 2000ft? Why not,
now is the age to achieve such a feat..




For a long time I ran Agfa ST-8 through the sound cameras, but that
has become difficult to find.  That's also a polyester base.

I would not worry too much about running the new polyester film
stocks in a well-maintained Bolex.
--scott

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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[sstark]

Hi Francisco, no my original post was to take an audio source (WAV or MP3,
or direct audio from a mic or line in) and convert it to an optical track.
This could either be exposed directly onto 35mm film (in the optical track
area) using a device that labs use,  or generate a digital image that I
could print onto the film using a 35mm film recorder that I have.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: FrameWorks  On Behalf Of
Francisco Torres
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 5:48 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

so the original poster idea is to convert the optical sound  track into an
image that could be printed on the frame area to be projected as a whole
image as we listen to the sound? is that it?

2020-09-11 8:01 GMT-04:00, graemeh...@irational.org
:
>
> Agfa will manufacture this stock if they get a big enough order, like 
> every single (exp) film maker in the world ordering 2000ft? Why not, 
> now is the age to achieve such a feat..
>
>
>
>> For a long time I ran Agfa ST-8 through the sound cameras, but that 
>> has become difficult to find.  That's also a polyester base.
>>
>> I would not worry too much about running the new polyester film 
>> stocks in a well-maintained Bolex.
>> --scott
>>
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Francisco Torres]

so the original poster idea is to convert the optical sound  track
into an image that could be printed on the frame area to be projected
as a whole image as we listen to the sound? is that it?

2020-09-11 8:01 GMT-04:00, graemeh...@irational.org :
>
> Agfa will manufacture this stock if they get a big enough order, like
> every single (exp) film maker in the world ordering 2000ft? Why not, now
> is the age to achieve such a feat..
>
>
>
>> For a long time I ran Agfa ST-8 through the sound cameras, but that has
>> become difficult to find.  That's also a polyester base.
>>
>> I would not worry too much about running the new polyester film stocks in
>> a well-maintained Bolex.
>> --scott
>>
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Zach Poff]

I should have linked to Matt's "filmless" [1] scripts too, which use the 
SoundtrackOptical library to generate soundtracks along the side of 
digitally printable film strips and laser cutter templates to cut them 
out with. It's an "off-the-shelf" method to make projectable "films" 
with optical sound, without photochemical processes.


-Zach

On 2020-09-12 19:18, Zach Poff wrote:

I get this as a digest so pardon if I missed a post where somebody 
already mentioned it, but one solution is here:


https://sixteenmillimeter.com/projects/SoundtrackOptical/

One of the many gifts that Matt McWilliams has given the world is a 
software library for generating soundtracks. It's not an off-the-shelf 
solution but it may get you most of the way toward a 
digitally-generated optical track!


-Zach Poff



Links:
--
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Zach Poff]

I get this as a digest so pardon if I missed a post where somebody 
already mentioned it, but one solution is here:


https://sixteenmillimeter.com/projects/SoundtrackOptical/

One of the many gifts that Matt McWilliams has given the world is a 
software library for generating soundtracks. It's not an off-the-shelf 
solution but it may get you most of the way toward a digitally-generated 
optical track!


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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[graemehogg]

Agfa will manufacture this stock if they get a big enough order, like 
every single (exp) film maker in the world ordering 2000ft? Why not, now 
is the age to achieve such a feat..





For a long time I ran Agfa ST-8 through the sound cameras, but that has
become difficult to find.  That's also a polyester base.

I would not worry too much about running the new polyester film stocks in
a well-maintained Bolex.
--scott

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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Eric Theise]

Interesting thread.

Scott (Stark), the Kapotski "Optical Sound generator" you launched the
thread with (http://www.kapotski.be/wp/?p=204) looks to be a simple circuit
that maps values of light-to-dark to frequency. A bit like a theremin but
for light instead of proximity.

(When I was a kid I built circuits like that from scratch using electronic
components (Chicago alert: probably purchased from Allied Electronics on
Western Av (https://chicagology.com/silentmovies/alliedradio/)). I remember
being fascinated by the "electric eye" that opened the doors of a grocery
store on Foster Av, just east of Damen.)

Sandy McLennan's recommendation of Matt McWilliams' soundtrack.optical
looks promising. It doesn't seem as if it's under heavy development  – only
one code commit this year, from January – but it seems quite far along in
its functionality. You say you're unfamiliar with Processing; it's an
environment developed in Java that was designed to be artist-friendly. Been
around for nearly 20 years and it's well-documented and has an active user
base. Roughly speaking, programs are called sketches and the environment
compiles these sketches before displaying results. It's easy to get started
with, there are many tutorials, and McWilliams directs you to one (
https://github.com/processing/processing/wiki/How-to-Install-a-Contributed-Library).
The software I initially used to do the frame-by-frame analysis of the
colors in your To Love or To Die was adapted from a Processing sketch. Even
if you end up not using soundtrack.optical you'd benefit from studying the
code to see what it's doing.

I ended up writing a Python program to analyze To Love or To Die; Python is
best suited to your desire to use a scripting language. I used OpenCV
because I was doing cluster analysis on video attributes but a quick search
suggests that Python libraries like pyAudioAnalysis (
https://github.com/tyiannak/pyAudioAnalysis/) or scikit-sound (
http://work.thaslwanter.at/sksound/html/) would be relevant – or overkill –
to the audio import and analysis aspects of your project. One of Python's
SVG writers, or something in Matplotlib, might be appropriate in generating
your output although, again, they might be overkill.

Personally, I'd start by installing soundtrack.optical and scaling its
output for use with 35mm frames.

Eric


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 8:53 AM  wrote:

> Thank you all for the suggestions of generating an optical track from an
> audio source. I like the idea of finding an optical sound camera (I do have
> a 16mm Auricon that would do this for 16mm, not 35). And the digital angle
> from sixteenmillimeter.com or Scott D’s suggestion sound interesting if a
> bit daunting (I’ve no experience with Processing). Anyway I’ll keep the
> list posted of any progress.
>
>
>
> Scott Stark
>
> www.scottstark.com
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Scott Dorsey]

3378 is basically the same as 5278 with an estar base... I have used it in
Bolexes and CP-16s with no problems for years.  The Bolex does have enough
torque to damage things if it jams, but it's not as if jamming is a frequent
problem.  It's higher contrast than the hi-con stock which makes it great
for titling and mattes if you can live with tape splicing it.

For actual sound recording the estar base is a huge win because it does not
expand and contract as much with processing and drying the way acetate does,
so the acetate version only stuck around because it was cheaper.

For a long time I ran Agfa ST-8 through the sound cameras, but that has
become difficult to find.  That's also a polyester base.

I would not worry too much about running the new polyester film stocks in
a well-maintained Bolex.
--scott

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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Dominic Angerame]

This is a bit off topic for optical soundtracks. 

For decades I have been using a Kodak stock that was produced for making 
optical tracks. Most of my “City Symphony” series was filmed using this stock, 
7378. Kodak discontinued this acetate stock a couple of decades ago. I bought 
as much of this particular material before Kodak stopped making it. They now 
make an estar based stock for making tracks. This estar based is not 
recommended for using in a Bolex since it could jam and damage the camera.

Kodak advised me not to use 7378 for filming. However the cost of .05 per foot 
was tempting. 7378 was tricky to use as a camera stock because of an estimated 
asa of 10-12. The result however is beautiful high contrast image. My films, 
“Continuum”, “Deconstruction Sight”, “Premonition”, “In the Course of Human 
Events”, “The Soul of Things”, “Revelations” were all created using this 
beautiful stock. I continue to film with 7378 with the few remaining rolls that 
I have left. “Revelations” can be seen on Vimeo (just search for Dominic 
Angerame to view this and other films)  My other films are available on a Blu 
Ray collection of my work produced by Re-Voir. Filming with 7378 as a camera 
stock.

Anyone out there that has rolls of 7378 I am interested in purchasing more of 
this material. Please contact me off site at domi...@cinemod.net 


Dominic



> On Sep 10, 2020, at 8:56 AM, ajyan...@buffalo.edu wrote:
> 
> I work a lot with optical sound in my music and performance…. There is 
> software from a researcher called AEO-Light that you can get as well...
> 
> 
> 
> 2020-09-10 15:53:17 + mailto:sst...@hi-beam.net>> :
> Thank you all for the suggestions of generating an optical track from an 
> audio source. I like the idea of finding an optical sound camera (I do have a 
> 16mm Auricon that would do this for 16mm, not 35). And the digital angle from 
> sixteenmillimeter.com  or Scott D’s suggestion 
> sound interesting if a bit daunting (I’ve no experience with Processing). 
> Anyway I’ll keep the list posted of any progress.
>  
> Scott Stark
>  www.scottstark.com 
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[ajyanick]

 I work a lot with optical sound in my music and performance…. There is
software from a researcher called AEO-Light that you can get as well...



2020-09-10 15:53:17 +  :

> Thank you all for the suggestions of generating an optical track from an
> audio source. I like the idea of finding an optical sound camera (I do have
> a 16mm Auricon that would do this for 16mm, not 35). And the digital angle
> from sixteenmillimeter.com or Scott D’s suggestion sound interesting if a
> bit daunting (I’ve no experience with Processing). Anyway I’ll keep the
> list posted of any progress.
>
>
>
> Scott Stark
>
> www.scottstark.com
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[sstark]

Thank you all for the suggestions of generating an optical track from an audio 
source. I like the idea of finding an optical sound camera (I do have a 16mm 
Auricon that would do this for 16mm, not 35). And the digital angle from 
sixteenmillimeter.com or Scott D’s suggestion sound interesting if a bit 
daunting (I’ve no experience with Processing). Anyway I’ll keep the list posted 
of any progress.

 

Scott Stark

www.scottstark.com  

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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[sstark]

Hi Scott Dorsey, I am interested in your idea of a script for extracting 
information from a .WAV file and creating a modulated white line. I have no 
idea how to do either, though I do have some experience with scripting. What 
scripting tool could do this? How does a script read values in a WAV file?

 

Yes I’m aware of the frame line problem, though those of us in the experimental 
film world might find this “interesting.” 

 

Thanks! Scott Stark

 

 

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 10:17 AM Scott Dorsey mailto:klu...@panix.com> > wrote:

Ahh, I get it, you want a digital image of what the soundtrack would like and
you want to plot it out as part of your filmout.

This turns out not to be an easy thing to do because of the frame lines...
it is very very hard to get the bottom of one frame to line up perfectly with
the top of the next one so there is not some discontinuity 24 times a second.
The Arrilaser recorder can do it, but they take a file that consists of 
frames and turn it into a datastream that consists of individual lines, and
plot a line at a time instead of a frame at a time.

But if you want to try it just to see what happens, it should not be all
that hard to write a little script to create two white lines whose width
varies with modulation.  Pull values one at a time out of a .wav file, 
use them to set the width of the line directly.
--scott

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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Sandy McLennan]

Thanks for this tip, Seth. Further on that reverse idea, saw this similar
tool, don't see a price:
https://imagetosound.com/

In seeking sound for experimental films, looking
for any visual element of the shooting process to extract sound from, I've
scanned a foot of film on a flatbed at a time then had that image file read
by software that translates it to sound. I was particularly scanning the
line down the middle of Double 8mm hand-processed footage. Some tools to go
from image to sound:

https://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Miscellaneous/ImageToSound.shtml
(free)

https://github.com/alexadam/img-encode  (free or donate)

https://www.photosounder.com/  (US$79)

Sandy McLennan
Port Sydney, Ontario, Canada


On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:12 PM Seth Mitter  wrote:

> AEO-Light is a tool that does the exact reverse and therefore may be of
> interest here. It takes images of optical soundtracks from a film scanner
> output (overscan tiff or dpx image sequences) and converts them into
> digital audio files.
> https://usc-imi.github.io/aeo-light/#about
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 11:30 AM Jason Halprin  wrote:
>
>> Hi Scott (et al),
>>
>> Not for 35mm, necessarily, but there is a very active 16mm Auricon group
>> on facebook that might have some tips or starting points. Not necessarily
>> for Scott, as I'm guessing you already know, but these were TV news cameras
>> that recorded optical sound directly on the film - no need for syncing
>> later on. These have been converted by DIY labs to become sound printers,
>> as well.
>>
>> For 35mm you may be able to find an old Westrex 35mm printer (mono)...and
>> perhaps just using it as a recording device for the sound output from a
>> computer would be more accurate than trying to print the sound line-by-line?
>>
>> Regardless, please share with us when you have a solution!
>>
>> -Jason Halprin
>> Montréal
>> Jason Halprin
>> jihalp...@gmail.com
>> jasonhalprin.com 
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 10:17 AM Scott Dorsey  wrote:
>>
>>> Ahh, I get it, you want a digital image of what the soundtrack would
>>> like and
>>> you want to plot it out as part of your filmout.
>>>
>>> This turns out not to be an easy thing to do because of the frame
>>> lines...
>>> it is very very hard to get the bottom of one frame to line up perfectly
>>> with
>>> the top of the next one so there is not some discontinuity 24 times a
>>> second.
>>> The Arrilaser recorder can do it, but they take a file that consists of
>>> frames and turn it into a datastream that consists of individual lines,
>>> and
>>> plot a line at a time instead of a frame at a time.
>>>
>>> But if you want to try it just to see what happens, it should not be all
>>> that hard to write a little script to create two white lines whose width
>>> varies with modulation.  Pull values one at a time out of a .wav file,
>>> use them to set the width of the line directly.
>>> --scott
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
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>>>
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Seth Mitter]

AEO-Light is a tool that does the exact reverse and therefore may be of
interest here. It takes images of optical soundtracks from a film scanner
output (overscan tiff or dpx image sequences) and converts them into
digital audio files.
https://usc-imi.github.io/aeo-light/#about

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 11:30 AM Jason Halprin  wrote:

> Hi Scott (et al),
>
> Not for 35mm, necessarily, but there is a very active 16mm Auricon group
> on facebook that might have some tips or starting points. Not necessarily
> for Scott, as I'm guessing you already know, but these were TV news cameras
> that recorded optical sound directly on the film - no need for syncing
> later on. These have been converted by DIY labs to become sound printers,
> as well.
>
> For 35mm you may be able to find an old Westrex 35mm printer (mono)...and
> perhaps just using it as a recording device for the sound output from a
> computer would be more accurate than trying to print the sound line-by-line?
>
> Regardless, please share with us when you have a solution!
>
> -Jason Halprin
> Montréal
> Jason Halprin
> jihalp...@gmail.com
> jasonhalprin.com 
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 10:17 AM Scott Dorsey  wrote:
>
>> Ahh, I get it, you want a digital image of what the soundtrack would like
>> and
>> you want to plot it out as part of your filmout.
>>
>> This turns out not to be an easy thing to do because of the frame lines...
>> it is very very hard to get the bottom of one frame to line up perfectly
>> with
>> the top of the next one so there is not some discontinuity 24 times a
>> second.
>> The Arrilaser recorder can do it, but they take a file that consists of
>> frames and turn it into a datastream that consists of individual lines,
>> and
>> plot a line at a time instead of a frame at a time.
>>
>> But if you want to try it just to see what happens, it should not be all
>> that hard to write a little script to create two white lines whose width
>> varies with modulation.  Pull values one at a time out of a .wav file,
>> use them to set the width of the line directly.
>> --scott
>>
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Jason Halprin]

Hi Scott (et al),

Not for 35mm, necessarily, but there is a very active 16mm Auricon group on
facebook that might have some tips or starting points. Not necessarily for
Scott, as I'm guessing you already know, but these were TV news cameras
that recorded optical sound directly on the film - no need for syncing
later on. These have been converted by DIY labs to become sound printers,
as well.

For 35mm you may be able to find an old Westrex 35mm printer (mono)...and
perhaps just using it as a recording device for the sound output from a
computer would be more accurate than trying to print the sound line-by-line?

Regardless, please share with us when you have a solution!

-Jason Halprin
Montréal
Jason Halprin
jihalp...@gmail.com
jasonhalprin.com 


On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 10:17 AM Scott Dorsey  wrote:

> Ahh, I get it, you want a digital image of what the soundtrack would like
> and
> you want to plot it out as part of your filmout.
>
> This turns out not to be an easy thing to do because of the frame lines...
> it is very very hard to get the bottom of one frame to line up perfectly
> with
> the top of the next one so there is not some discontinuity 24 times a
> second.
> The Arrilaser recorder can do it, but they take a file that consists of
> frames and turn it into a datastream that consists of individual lines, and
> plot a line at a time instead of a frame at a time.
>
> But if you want to try it just to see what happens, it should not be all
> that hard to write a little script to create two white lines whose width
> varies with modulation.  Pull values one at a time out of a .wav file,
> use them to set the width of the line directly.
> --scott
>
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Scott Dorsey]

Ahh, I get it, you want a digital image of what the soundtrack would like and
you want to plot it out as part of your filmout.

This turns out not to be an easy thing to do because of the frame lines...
it is very very hard to get the bottom of one frame to line up perfectly with
the top of the next one so there is not some discontinuity 24 times a second.
The Arrilaser recorder can do it, but they take a file that consists of 
frames and turn it into a datastream that consists of individual lines, and
plot a line at a time instead of a frame at a time.

But if you want to try it just to see what happens, it should not be all
that hard to write a little script to create two white lines whose width
varies with modulation.  Pull values one at a time out of a .wav file, 
use them to set the width of the line directly.
--scott

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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Sandy McLennan]

Check out Matt McWilliams’ software SoundtrackOptical on his wonderful resource 
page https://sixteenmillimeter.com/

Sandy McLennan

> On Sep 7, 2020, at 8:01 PM, Scott Stark  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, does anyone know of a tool that can generate an optical soundtrack 
> image? I looked on Google but all I could find was this which I didn’t quite 
> understand.
> 
> Thanks, Scott
> 
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Scott Stark]

Hi Scott, I¹m not familiar with the Maurer but I want to create the visual
track that I can print to a strip of 35mm film (using a 35mm device I
have). I thought if there was some app or tool that could transfer a piece
of audio to its optical representation that might get me started.

Thanks, Scott

On 9/7/20, 5:03 PM, "FrameWorks on behalf of Scott Dorsey"

wrote:

>I'm not sure what you're asking.  You want a Maurer sound camera or you
>want
>something equivalent?
>--scott
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Re: [Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Scott Dorsey]

I'm not sure what you're asking.  You want a Maurer sound camera or you want
something equivalent?
--scott
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[Frameworks] optical soundtrack generator?

[Scott Stark]

Hi all, does anyone know of a tool that can generate an optical soundtrack
image? I looked on Google but all I could find was this
  which I didn¹t quite understand.

Thanks, Scott



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