Re: Current Gentoo user
Grant wrote: It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. How would you compare the two OSes? - Grant I only have the time to give you a very general impression. I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile and install. Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; the base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, sendmail, pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base system) so you really can have an operational base system. For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + apache is enough, the same goes for database server. Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. Not so with Gentoo. Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, you don't need to add anything to the base system. FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server setups are covered in the handbook. Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're not a long time Linux geek. For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get properly compiled. On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo designers benefited from designing from scratch. On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to break things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps working. Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And it is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these days. There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, which would require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't supported. You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. Perhaps it's my lack of experience. On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, but I think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. I just had a search through the FreeBSD ports list and just about everything I user is listed there. gnucash, gimp, firefox, etc. Does that mean they are work perfectly on FreeBSD? - Grant ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" I use FreeBSD almost exclusively (my main desktop is a Mac), and everything on FreeBSD works with as few bugs as their Mac OS X counterparts (where such counterparts exist, such as Firefox). On my laptop, they also run about the same speed as they do on the Mac. (Mac is 3GHz, laptop is 1.8GHz) -Jessica ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/fr
Re: Current Gentoo user
> > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > > How would you compare the two OSes? > > > > - Grant > > I only have the time to give you a very general impression. > I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current > employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. > For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... > > I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD > ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile > and install. > > Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on > your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you > install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. > > On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; > the > base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more > complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, > sendmail, > pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base > system) > so you really can have an operational base system. > For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + > apache is enough, the same goes for database server. > Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. > Not so with Gentoo. > > Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base > system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. > It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. > Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. > > Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for > any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, > you don't need to add anything to the base system. > FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server > setups are covered in the handbook. > Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. > Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're > not a long time Linux geek. > > For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get > google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even > FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get > properly > compiled. > > On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The > USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. > Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo > designers benefited from designing from scratch. > On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to > break > things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop > working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps > working. > Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. > > For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And > it > is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these > days. > There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. > > AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, > which would > require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't > supported. > You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. > > > After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a > bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. > It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. > Perhaps it's my lack of experience. > On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even > the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, > but I > think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. I just had a search through the FreeBSD ports list and just about everything I user is listed there. gnucash, gimp, firefox, etc. Does that mean they are work perfectly on FreeBSD? - Grant ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
On 12/13/07, Thierry Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Skype is a closed proprietary project, and they don't release binaries > for FreeBSD: the Linux emulation is necessary (it may work, or not... I > don't trust this soft and never tried it!). > > On the contrary, Wengo is an open source project (OpenWengo), and it > might be possible to port it on FreeBSD. It could be difficult, if they > only use ALSA or things like that, but feasible, perhaps with some help > from the authors... > > Though, I don't like Skype too, many of my partners and customers use it. Yes, Skype works in FreeBSD via Linuxulator (installed from ports as usually). I have no problems with it. ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
You've received A Hallmark E-Card!
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Re: Current Gentoo user
There's vmware in the ports, but not so fresh: vmware3-3.2.1.2242_13,1 I prefer QEMU. On 12/13/07, Alaksiej C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 12/13/07, Thierry Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Skype is a closed proprietary project, and they don't release binaries > > for FreeBSD: the Linux emulation is necessary (it may work, or not... I > > don't trust this soft and never tried it!). > > > > On the contrary, Wengo is an open source project (OpenWengo), and it > > might be possible to port it on FreeBSD. It could be difficult, if they > > only use ALSA or things like that, but feasible, perhaps with some help > > from the authors... > > > > > Though, I don't like Skype too, many of my partners and customers use it. > Yes, Skype works in FreeBSD via Linuxulator (installed from ports as > usually). I have no problems with it. > ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
"Julian H. Stacey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > A VOIP (ie Skype) Asterisk developer (Emil Stoyanov. cc'd) who is > FreeBSD (& Linux) based did 2 presentations in Munich this year: Uh... Skype is indeed VOIP, but it is not interoperable with Asterisk (or anything else) since it uses its own proprietary encrypted protocol instead of SIP. Skype is good if you like the idea of eBay being able to track who you talk to, listen in on your conversations, and control your computer. Asterisk (and a suitable SIP client such as Ekiga) is good if you like open standards and vendor independence. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
Le Jeu 13 déc 07 à 21:35:04 +0100, Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> écrivait : > Sounds problematic. I still wonder about skype/wengo and vmware > workstation. I'll have to do some Googling. Skype is a closed proprietary project, and they don't release binaries for FreeBSD: the Linux emulation is necessary (it may work, or not... I don't trust this soft and never tried it!). On the contrary, Wengo is an open source project (OpenWengo), and it might be possible to port it on FreeBSD. It could be difficult, if they only use ALSA or things like that, but feasible, perhaps with some help from the authors... Regards, -- Th. Thomas. ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Antique books and manuscripts, off to Dubai
Yesterday, a dozen heavy trunks with rare books, prints, and manuscripts from the 15th to 20th centuries left Vienna, Austria, for Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. Inlibris Gilhofer Nfg., dealers in rare books and manuscripts, established in 1883 and regular suppliers to major national libraries, universities, and museums worldwide for more than a century, will be the only participating rare book dealer at the inaugural Dubai International Fine Art and Antiques Fair. Our offer will include the most beautiful and valuable illustrated books on natural history (including marine life, falconry, horsemanship, birds, and flowers), history of civilization (including the most comprehensive work on the 17th-century wars), science (including a complete copy Diderot's Encyclopedie, formerly in the possession of Napoleon's son-in-law, and the great classics of medicine and pharmacology), and geography (including a perfect copy of an atlas published in the late 15th century), as well as art and architecture books from five centuries. Furthermore, we will be showing several Arabic manuscripts (including an early 16th-century miniature Koran) and an impressive collection of early Arabic printing (including the first oriental manuscript to be reproduced in facsimile in 1676). Local prints, maps, and historic photos will also be on view during the fair. Our illustrated catalogue describes some of these objects in greater detail. Its digital version may be consulted on http://www.rarebooksandautographs.com/content/english/bestand/auswahlkatalog.php Although the fair will be taking place in mid-december, reservations and orders are already welcome now. Those of you interested in free admission to the fair (opening on the 12th of December at the Dubai Convention Center) or a private meeting with our staff please contact us in advance via e-mail. Kind regards from Vienna, Hugo Wetscherek __ Antiquariat INLIBRIS, Gilhofer Nfg. GmbH www.rarebooksandautographs.com INLIBRIS Ges.m.b.H. Rathausstrasse 19 A-1010 Wien Tel.: (+43 1) 409 61 90 0 Fax: (+43 1) 409 61 90 9 www.inlibris.at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" __ NOD32 2257 (20070511) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
> > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > > How would you compare the two OSes? > > > > - Grant > > I only have the time to give you a very general impression. > I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current > employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. > For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... > > I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD > ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile > and install. > > Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on > your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you > install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. I really like that. > On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; > the > base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more > complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, > sendmail, > pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base > system) > so you really can have an operational base system. > For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + > apache is enough, the same goes for database server. > Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. > Not so with Gentoo. I really like the Gentoo concept here. > Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base > system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. > It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. > Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. Having a thoroughly working base system does sound really nice. > Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for > any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, > you don't need to add anything to the base system. > FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server > setups are covered in the handbook. > Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. > Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're > not a long time Linux geek. That's a huge plus for FreeBSD then. > For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get > google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even > FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get > properly > compiled. That doesn't sound very good. I've got to be able to use Linux apps. That's for sure. > On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The > USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. > Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo > designers benefited from designing from scratch. > On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to > break > things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop > working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps > working. > Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. Interesting. I thought ports was better in every respect, but it sounds like they both have their advantages. > For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And > it > is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these > days. > There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. > > AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, > which would > require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't > supported. > You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. Sounds problematic. I still wonder about skype/wengo and vmware workstation. I'll have to do some Googling. > After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a > bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. > It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. Configuring the kernel with menuconfig is a pain. How is it handled differently with FreeBSD? > Perhaps it's my lack of experience. > On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even > the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, > but I > think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. Can you tell me more about what you mean here? How is it much better? Easier kernel management? Thank you very much for taking
Re: Current Gentoo user
Chad Perrin wrote: > On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 06:12:55AM -0800, Grant wrote: > > What about skype, wengo, and vmware workstation? Do they work on FreeBSD? > I have no idea, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else on the list can > answer that. I've never used any of the three. A VOIP (ie Skype) Asterisk developer (Emil Stoyanov. cc'd) who is FreeBSD (& Linux) based did 2 presentations in Munich this year: Longer more technical version to Berkeley In Munich group 2007_01_17 http://www.berklix.org/bim/talks/asterisk_overview_2007_01_17/ Shorter less technical overview to Munich Faraday group 20th April 2007 http://www.berklix.com/free/talk/presentations/export/4_voip+bsd_v_linux_emil/ re. sound > I still haven't used FreeBSD on a system with a 64b processor Works on mine, uname & dmesg below: FreeBSD fire.js.berklix.net 6.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE #0: Mon Sep 17 23:01:21 CEST 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: /usr1/src/sys/amd64/compile/FIRE64.small amd64 CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+ (2010.07-MHz 686-class CPU) pcm0: port 0xe400-0xe4ff irq 22 at device 17.5 on pci0 pcm0: pcm0: -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
> From: Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Current Gentoo user > > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > How would you compare the two OSes? > > - Grant I only have the time to give you a very general impression. I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile and install. Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; the base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, sendmail, pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base system) so you really can have an operational base system. For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + apache is enough, the same goes for database server. Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. Not so with Gentoo. Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, you don't need to add anything to the base system. FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server setups are covered in the handbook. Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're not a long time Linux geek. For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get properly compiled. On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo designers benefited from designing from scratch. On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to break things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps working. Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And it is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these days. There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, which would require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't supported. You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. Perhaps it's my lack of experience. On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, but I think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. Greetings, Miguel Ramos Lisboa, Portugal ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 03:50:33PM -0300, Sd?vtaker wrote: > > If you want a fast read: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_of_an_Operating_System_.28OS.29 > But there is a lot more info in Tanenbaum books, Staling books, or > Silverschatz books, the three of them named "operating systems". > Rule of the thumb... If you find an easy application who runs in one > "Distribution" and it doesnt run in another one, then you can be pretty > sure those are not the same OS. =) So far, that looks like it matches my idea of an OS. So . . . how does this disqualify Gentoo? -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Marvin Minsky: "It's just incredible that a trillion-synapse computer could actually spend Saturday afternoon watching a football game." ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
Chad Perrin escribió: On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 08:52:18AM +, Paul Waring wrote: Gentoo isn't really an operating system, it's a Linux distribution - the only way in which it differs from other distributions (say Debian) is in its package management. I've been running into the notion that Linux distributions aren't operating systems lately -- two or three times now. I find this immensely confusing. The way things are going, it seems that ultimately the term "operating system" will never be allowed to apply to anything that has anything at all to do with the Linux kernel, period. 1. The kernel isn't an OS (I happen to agree with this one). It's just a kernel, and it takes more than a kernel to make an OS. 2. The distro isn't an OS (I happen to disagree with this one). It's just a distribution, which, um, differs from an OS in that it, um, isn't an OS. 3. What the heck *is* an OS? If you want a fast read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_of_an_Operating_System_.28OS.29 But there is a lot more info in Tanenbaum books, Staling books, or Silverschatz books, the three of them named "operating systems". Rule of the thumb... If you find an easy application who runs in one "Distribution" and it doesnt run in another one, then you can be pretty sure those are not the same OS. =) ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 08:52:18AM +, Paul Waring wrote: > > Gentoo isn't really an operating system, it's a Linux distribution - the > only way in which it differs from other distributions (say Debian) is in > its package management. I've been running into the notion that Linux distributions aren't operating systems lately -- two or three times now. I find this immensely confusing. The way things are going, it seems that ultimately the term "operating system" will never be allowed to apply to anything that has anything at all to do with the Linux kernel, period. 1. The kernel isn't an OS (I happen to agree with this one). It's just a kernel, and it takes more than a kernel to make an OS. 2. The distro isn't an OS (I happen to disagree with this one). It's just a distribution, which, um, differs from an OS in that it, um, isn't an OS. 3. What the heck *is* an OS? -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] They always say that when life gives you lemons you should make lemonade. I always wonder -- isn't the lemonade going to suck if life doesn't give you any sugar? ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 06:12:55AM -0800, Grant wrote: > > What about skype, wengo, and vmware workstation? Do they work on FreeBSD? I have no idea, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else on the list can answer that. I've never used any of the three. > > >From what I've read, ports is much faster and generally much better > than portage. I certainly like it a lot more -- and it *can be* faster, at least. I haven't done enough comparison to really be able to answer that with certainty. > > >* I tend to find that FreeBSD comes with much better diagnostic and > > monitoring capabilities built in -- programs like systat and gstat > > have no direct equivalents, and things like vmstat often seem to > > be missing from Gentoo boxes, although that is probably just an > > oversight by the person building the system. > > Does FreeBSD take the nothing-is-installed-that-I-don't-want approach > like Gentoo does? Pretty much. There are a few things in the base system that one might consider "not necessary" to a minimal install, but there's little enough there that it hasn't bothered me at all -- and I'm kind of a stickler for keeping things relatively minimal in a lot of ways. > > Am I likely to struggle with FreeBSD on a laptop? I booted FreeSBIE > just fine but I didn't test for sound. I don't think you're likely to encounter problems any more than with Linux, generally, unless you expect 3D accelerated graphics using a Radeon adapter. As for sound -- my experience is that sound configuration on FreeBSD is much *much* easier than on Linux systems in general. ALSA has, from time to time, been the bane of my existence. Getting sound working on FreeBSD (complete with multiple channels so that more than one application at a time can produce sound) has never taken me more than about three minutes. > > I would imagine 64-bit support in FreeBSD is excellent, but what about > support of 32-bit binaries (e.g. the above listed) on a 64-bit system? I still haven't used FreeBSD on a system with a 64b processor, so I'm afraid you'll have to get answers to this one from someone else, too. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Dr. Ron Paul: "Liberty has meaning only if we still believe in it when terrible things happen and a false government security blanket beckons." ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
> > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > > How would you compare the two OSes? > > We use mainly a mixture of FreeBSD and Gentoo at work. Virtually all > of the application software you would want to use will work on either > system -- the exceptions being certain proprietary bits such as the very > latest Flash or management applications for particular RAID controllers. > The Unix environment is pretty much the same, although /bin/sh on FreeBSD > is not bash -- that you'ld have to install from ports. There are various > odd differences in commands but those tend to be the more obscure bits > as both systems comply with POSIX.2 What about skype, wengo, and vmware workstation? Do they work on FreeBSD? > Things you'll find different: > >* Although portage was certainly inspired by ports, it is a very > different beast. They fulfil much the same function, but don't > get frustrated when you start thinking in the portage way and > find that doesn't map onto ports very well. Ports is, to > paraphrase Terry Pratchett, intuitively obvious once you've spent > enough time learning how it works. >From what I've read, ports is much faster and generally much better than portage. >* You'll find that the base FreeBSD system being separated from the > rest of the installed software seems odd at first. Especially > when you start looking under /etc for configuration files that > FreeBSD puts under /usr/local/etc. You will quickly come to > appreciate that it makes a huge difference in the ease and > manageability of maintaining the system. Makes sense to me. >* I tend to find that FreeBSD comes with much better diagnostic and > monitoring capabilities built in -- programs like systat and gstat > have no direct equivalents, and things like vmstat often seem to > be missing from Gentoo boxes, although that is probably just an > oversight by the person building the system. Does FreeBSD take the nothing-is-installed-that-I-don't-want approach like Gentoo does? >* Although either OS will work in either role, Gentoo-ers seem > to me principally interested in developing the desktops, > whereas FreeBSD-ers think "network server" first of all. Am I likely to struggle with FreeBSD on a laptop? I booted FreeSBIE just fine but I didn't test for sound. I would imagine 64-bit support in FreeBSD is excellent, but what about support of 32-bit binaries (e.g. the above listed) on a 64-bit system? - Grant ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Grant wrote: > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > How would you compare the two OSes? We use mainly a mixture of FreeBSD and Gentoo at work. Virtually all of the application software you would want to use will work on either system -- the exceptions being certain proprietary bits such as the very latest Flash or management applications for particular RAID controllers. The Unix environment is pretty much the same, although /bin/sh on FreeBSD is not bash -- that you'ld have to install from ports. There are various odd differences in commands but those tend to be the more obscure bits as both systems comply with POSIX.2 Things you'll find different: * Although portage was certainly inspired by ports, it is a very different beast. They fulfil much the same function, but don't get frustrated when you start thinking in the portage way and find that doesn't map onto ports very well. Ports is, to paraphrase Terry Pratchett, intuitively obvious once you've spent enough time learning how it works. * You'll find that the base FreeBSD system being separated from the rest of the installed software seems odd at first. Especially when you start looking under /etc for configuration files that FreeBSD puts under /usr/local/etc. You will quickly come to appreciate that it makes a huge difference in the ease and manageability of maintaining the system. * I tend to find that FreeBSD comes with much better diagnostic and monitoring capabilities built in -- programs like systat and gstat have no direct equivalents, and things like vmstat often seem to be missing from Gentoo boxes, although that is probably just an oversight by the person building the system. * Although either OS will work in either role, Gentoo-ers seem to me principally interested in developing the desktops, whereas FreeBSD-ers think "network server" first of all. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. Flat 3 7 Priory Courtyard PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW, UK -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHYPwg3jDkPpsZ+VYRA7pcAKChv1PJ0eHTMcts5YeFMW5bnw0jnACgpdEd 7FoLHWlXviWk+dh+pSUwTNc= =V2b8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Current Gentoo user
On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 09:00:52PM -0800, Grant wrote: > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > How would you compare the two OSes? Gentoo isn't really an operating system, it's a Linux distribution - the only way in which it differs from other distributions (say Debian) is in its package management. The project has slowed down noticeably over the past few years (I used to be more involved than I am now and I've watched the decline), but I don't think that has anything to do with FreeBSD. I suppose if you wanted to do a comparison you could look at hardware compatibility (more important for laptops than servers, as last time I tried FreeBSD wouldn't even boot on my laptop, but it doesn't matter as much for servers as you won't have lots of fancy graphics cards to support for example) and ease of installation/use of default setup. The software available is largely the same - you can install OpenOffice on both distributions, run all popular server software etc., there isn't really that much to choose between them as a user in my opinion. Paul -- Paul Waring http://www.pwaring.com ___ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
