Re: FreeBSD is a great operating system!
Dear Hans Petter Selasky, Why do you say FreeBSD license is a killer? Regards, Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming Targeted Individual in Singapore On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 at 16:13, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > On 7/6/22 10:07, Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming wrote: > > Subject: FreeBSD is a great operating system! > > > > Good day from Singapore, > > > > I think FreeBSD is a great operating system! I support FreeBSD because > > the most popular pfSense firewall, the extremely popular OPNsense > > firewall and the BSD Router Project are all powered by FreeBSD! macOS > > is also based on FreeBSD! > > > > I use pfSense community edition firewall in my home. I am planning to > > try out OPNsense firewall next. > > > > I will continue to support FreeBSD! It is a great operating system! > > FreeBSD is a very good network operating system. > > > > Regards, > > > > Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming > > Targeted Individual in Singapore > > 6 July 2022 Wed > > Blogs: > > https://tdtemcerts.blogspot.com > > https://tdtemcerts.wordpress.com > > ... > > And its license is a killer! > > --HPS >
Re: Accessibility in the FreeBSD installer and console
> Am 07.07.2022 um 23:48 schrieb Hans Petter Selasky : > > On 7/7/22 23:26, John Kennedy wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:11:52PM +0200, Klaus Küchemann wrote: Am 07.07.2022 um 19:32 schrieb Hans Petter Selasky : The only argument I've heard from some non-sighted friends about not using FreeBSD natively is that ooh, MacOSX is so cool. It starts speaking from the start if I press this and this key. Is anyone here working on or wanting such a feature? >>> >>> Possibly they didn’t want to be rude and your friends didn't tell you the >>> other argument :-) : according to the corresponding wiki page FreeBSD >>> doesn't natively support any audio output at all on your friends current M1 >>> Mac hardware. >>> since quite nothing is currently supported you probably will first take >>> over working on the Audio driver …..and of course USB :-) >> I think a huge benefit that Apple would have is that they might be >> able to guarantee some sort of audio speaker, period, since they >> control the hardware that the software runs on. That might be a big ask >> on FreeBSD, but maybe if there was some relatively ubiqitous > > Hi, > > Does Apple support voice-over in its bootloaders too? I think not, so at some > point of technical breakage you will be stuck anyway - right? > > —HPS good point … ( I think you mean feature textToSpeech when e.g. keyboard-interrupting into the fbsd-boot prompt in native Mac boot) But implementing text to speech in native u-boot/uefi & FreeBSD bootloader on a Mac? ..sounds like a huge project after having FreeBSD natively ported to Apple M1/M2.. But if that’s on your list I would not underestimate you :-) ...of course you would have VoiceOver/TextToSpeech e.g. in a uart- shell console when booting FreeBSD native on another board/machine…and that seems to be the easiest way for non-sighted FreeBSD users/developers using the Mac platform for VoiceOver who want to use fbsd-current native( those who are interested in bootloader issues;-) If you meant VoiceOver in MacOS bootloader : Macusers expect their Macs problem-free, a special world, unknown in FreeBSD:-) There are exceptions, e.g. if you use a new MacOS on an older unsupported Mac - but VoiceOver wouldn’t help much there ;-) K.
Re: Accessibility in the FreeBSD installer and console
> Am 07.07.2022 um 23:26 schrieb John Kennedy : > > On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:11:52PM +0200, Klaus Küchemann wrote: >>> Am 07.07.2022 um 19:32 schrieb Hans Petter Selasky : >>> The only argument I've heard from some non-sighted friends about not using >>> FreeBSD natively is that ooh, MacOSX is so cool. It starts speaking from >>> the start if I press this and this key. Is anyone here working on or >>> wanting such a feature? >> >> Possibly they didn’t want to be rude and your friends didn't tell you the >> other argument :-) : according to the corresponding wiki page FreeBSD >> doesn't natively support any audio output at all on your friends current M1 >> Mac hardware. >> since quite nothing is currently supported you probably will first take over >> working on the Audio driver …..and of course USB :-) > > I think a huge benefit that Apple would have is that they might be > able to guarantee some sort of audio speaker, period, since they > control the hardware that the software runs on. That might be a big ask > on FreeBSD, but maybe if there was some relatively ubiqitous > `found < • Introduced tascodec(4), a driver for the TI TAS2770/TAS5770 digital audio amplifier codec found on Apple M1 Macs. • Introduced aplnco(4), a driver for the Numerically-controlled oscillator (NCO) clock which drives the audio clocks on Apple silicon. > in https://www.openbsd.org/plus71.html and for some stunning fun : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B-XwPjn9YY#t=03m17s (start minute 3:17 ) :-)
Re: Accessibility in the FreeBSD installer and console
On 7/7/22 23:26, John Kennedy wrote: On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:11:52PM +0200, Klaus Küchemann wrote: Am 07.07.2022 um 19:32 schrieb Hans Petter Selasky : The only argument I've heard from some non-sighted friends about not using FreeBSD natively is that ooh, MacOSX is so cool. It starts speaking from the start if I press this and this key. Is anyone here working on or wanting such a feature? Possibly they didn’t want to be rude and your friends didn't tell you the other argument :-) : according to the corresponding wiki page FreeBSD doesn't natively support any audio output at all on your friends current M1 Mac hardware. since quite nothing is currently supported you probably will first take over working on the Audio driver …..and of course USB :-) I think a huge benefit that Apple would have is that they might be able to guarantee some sort of audio speaker, period, since they control the hardware that the software runs on. That might be a big ask on FreeBSD, but maybe if there was some relatively ubiqitous Hi, Does Apple support voice-over in its bootloaders too? I think not, so at some point of technical breakage you will be stuck anyway - right? --HPS
Re: Accessibility in the FreeBSD installer and console
On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:11:52PM +0200, Klaus Küchemann wrote: > > Am 07.07.2022 um 19:32 schrieb Hans Petter Selasky : > > The only argument I've heard from some non-sighted friends about not using > > FreeBSD natively is that ooh, MacOSX is so cool. It starts speaking from > > the start if I press this and this key. Is anyone here working on or > > wanting such a feature? > > Possibly they didn’t want to be rude and your friends didn't tell you the > other argument :-) : according to the corresponding wiki page FreeBSD > doesn't natively support any audio output at all on your friends current M1 > Mac hardware. > since quite nothing is currently supported you probably will first take over > working on the Audio driver …..and of course USB :-) I think a huge benefit that Apple would have is that they might be able to guarantee some sort of audio speaker, period, since they control the hardware that the software runs on. That might be a big ask on FreeBSD, but maybe if there was some relatively ubiquitous assistance hardware, maybe doable. But text-to-speech (and then WHAT language's speech) is a big software chunk, audio layers seems large, and then having to worry about the potential driver issues (while not being able to see-to-hear any potential setup issues) seems huge. Everybody seems happy farming that out to the internet, except on system setup you're not connected to the internet yet. Plus Apple has some deep hooks into the app-stack since you're basically using their toolkit to make a graphical app, so they can guarantee some potential for GUI-textbox-speech, where FreeBSD has a hodgepodge of graphical toolkits (KDE, GTK, Gnome, etc).
Re: Accessibility in the FreeBSD installer and console
On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:11:52PM +0200, Klaus Küchemann wrote: > > Am 07.07.2022 um 19:32 schrieb Hans Petter Selasky : > > The only argument I've heard from some non-sighted friends about not using > > FreeBSD natively is that ooh, MacOSX is so cool. It starts speaking from > > the start if I press this and this key. Is anyone here working on or > > wanting such a feature? > > Possibly they didn’t want to be rude and your friends didn't tell you the > other argument :-) : according to the corresponding wiki page FreeBSD > doesn't natively support any audio output at all on your friends current M1 > Mac hardware. > since quite nothing is currently supported you probably will first take over > working on the Audio driver …..and of course USB :-) I think a huge benefit that Apple would have is that they might be able to guarantee some sort of audio speaker, period, since they control the hardware that the software runs on. That might be a big ask on FreeBSD, but maybe if there was some relatively ubiqitous
Re: Accessibility in the FreeBSD installer and console
> Am 07.07.2022 um 19:32 schrieb Hans Petter Selasky : > > Hi, > > The only argument I've heard from some non-sighted friends about not using > FreeBSD natively is that ooh, MacOSX is so cool. It starts speaking from the > start if I press this and this key. Is anyone here working on or wanting such > a feature? Possibly they didn’t want to be rude and your friends didn't tell you the other argument :-) : according to the corresponding wiki page FreeBSD doesn't natively support any audio output at all on your friends current M1 Mac hardware. since quite nothing is currently supported you probably will first take over working on the Audio driver …..and of course USB :-) > I mean it should be so much easier to text to speech our text based unicode > console, than what MacOSX is doing, by tracking screen changes intelligently > inside newcons in the kernel, and feeding that into a character device, that > to espeak or whatever can read it. nowadays called MacOS ( w/o the X)… as far as I remember even System7 Mac of 1984 had text to speech features so it might be hard to convince a Mac users with such a brand new voice over killer app in native FreeBSD ;-)- but I would ask your friends who can judge that. > > --HPS > K.
Re: buildkernel is broken
On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 07:59:29PM +0200, Kristof Provost wrote: > On 7 Jul 2022, at 19:00, Steve Kargl wrote: > > > The fix in > > 37f604b49d4a seems rather questionable especially given > > that there is no comment about why the macro is expanded > > to a zero-trip loop. > > > I’m not sure how I could have been much more clear than this: > > VNET_FOREACH() is a LIST_FOREACH if VIMAGE is set, but empty if it's > not. This means that users of the macro couldn't use 'continue' or > 'break' as one would expect of a loop. Comments belong in the code. /* Kludge to prevent non-vimage kernels from choking to death. */ #define VNET_FOREACH(arg) for (int _vn = 0; _vn == 0; _vn++) -- Steve
Re: buildkernel is broken
On 7 Jul 2022, at 19:00, Steve Kargl wrote: On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:37:40AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:37 AM Steve Kargl < s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: Thanks, but root[216] git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a fatal: bad revision '37f604b49d4a' root[217] pwd /usr/src git fetch maybe? A cursory google search suggests that 'git fetch' works on repositories not single files. I did look at the diff associated with 37f604b49d4a. I am surprised that the commit that broke buildkernel for me was allowed to be committed. It was posted for review in https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35716 I’ll also point out that this commit works just fine in nearly all of our kernel configs, because there are very few (only one powerpc config, as far as I can tell) that do not have VIMAGE. Arguably we should have a non-VIMAGE kernel config around (probably for amd64) so it’s more likely we spot these issues prior to commit. Arbitrary non-default kernel configs are more likely to see issues like this one. I don’t think that can be avoided. The fix in 37f604b49d4a seems rather questionable especially given that there is no comment about why the macro is expanded to a zero-trip loop. I’m not sure how I could have been much more clear than this: VNET_FOREACH() is a LIST_FOREACH if VIMAGE is set, but empty if it's not. This means that users of the macro couldn't use 'continue' or 'break' as one would expect of a loop. I welcome suggestions on how to improve my future commit messages. To rephrase it a bit: VNET_FOREACH() used to be very misleading, in that it was only a loop with options VIMAGE, and empty (so any code within would be its own block, and be executed exactly once, for the only vnet that exists without VIMAGE). That’s fine, unless you want to ‘continue’ or ‘break’ the loop. That worked with VIMAGE (so the issue in the dummynet fix was not seen) but not without it. Kristof
Re: buildkernel is broken
On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 11:21 AM Kyle Evans wrote: > On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:01 AM Steve Kargl > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:37:40AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:37 AM Steve Kargl < > > > s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks, but > > > > > > > > root[216] git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a > > > > fatal: bad revision '37f604b49d4a' > > > > root[217] pwd > > > > /usr/src > > > > > > > > > git fetch maybe? > > > > > > > A cursory google search suggests that 'git fetch' > > works on repositories not single files. > > > > Right, the idea is that you `git fetch origin main` (or whatever your > remote is called rather than 'origin') then you can cherry-pick the > revision. fetch will grab the revision without merging it into the > current branch. > Indeed. a git fetch command will only update the remote/origin/upstream tags and such as well as fetching new revisions there. It won't affect any local branches as all until you explicitly merge them with 'git merge' or implicitly with a 'git pull'. Warner > > I did look at the diff associated with 37f604b49d4a. > > I am surprised that the commit that broke buildkernel > > for me was allowed to be committed. The fix in > > 37f604b49d4a seems rather questionable especially given > > that there is no comment about why the macro is expanded > > to a zero-trip loop. > > > > Thanks for the help. I'll just do a 'git pull' > > and start over with a buildworld. > > > > -- > > Steve > > >
Accessibility in the FreeBSD installer and console
Hi, The only argument I've heard from some non-sighted friends about not using FreeBSD natively is that ooh, MacOSX is so cool. It starts speaking from the start if I press this and this key. Is anyone here working on or wanting such a feature? I mean it should be so much easier to text to speech our text based unicode console, than what MacOSX is doing, by tracking screen changes intelligently inside newcons in the kernel, and feeding that into a character device, that to espeak or whatever can read it. --HPS
Re: buildkernel is broken
On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:01 AM Steve Kargl wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:37:40AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:37 AM Steve Kargl < > > s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > Thanks, but > > > > > > root[216] git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a > > > fatal: bad revision '37f604b49d4a' > > > root[217] pwd > > > /usr/src > > > > > > git fetch maybe? > > > > A cursory google search suggests that 'git fetch' > works on repositories not single files. > Right, the idea is that you `git fetch origin main` (or whatever your remote is called rather than 'origin') then you can cherry-pick the revision. fetch will grab the revision without merging it into the current branch. > I did look at the diff associated with 37f604b49d4a. > I am surprised that the commit that broke buildkernel > for me was allowed to be committed. The fix in > 37f604b49d4a seems rather questionable especially given > that there is no comment about why the macro is expanded > to a zero-trip loop. > > Thanks for the help. I'll just do a 'git pull' > and start over with a buildworld. > > -- > Steve >
Re: buildkernel is broken
On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:37:40AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:37 AM Steve Kargl < > s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > Thanks, but > > > > root[216] git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a > > fatal: bad revision '37f604b49d4a' > > root[217] pwd > > /usr/src > > > git fetch maybe? > A cursory google search suggests that 'git fetch' works on repositories not single files. I did look at the diff associated with 37f604b49d4a. I am surprised that the commit that broke buildkernel for me was allowed to be committed. The fix in 37f604b49d4a seems rather questionable especially given that there is no comment about why the macro is expanded to a zero-trip loop. Thanks for the help. I'll just do a 'git pull' and start over with a buildworld. -- Steve
Re: buildkernel is broken
On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:37 AM Steve Kargl < s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > Thanks, but > > root[216] git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a > fatal: bad revision '37f604b49d4a' > root[217] pwd > /usr/src git fetch maybe? Warner > -- > steve > > On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 11:24:47AM -0400, Ryan Stone wrote: > > You could "git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a; git restore --unstaged > > sys/net/vnet.h" to apply the fix to your local tree without committing > > it or leaving it staged for commit. > > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:50 AM Steve Kargl > > wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:38:43AM -0400, Ryan Stone wrote: > > > > Okay, update your tree and it should be fixed then. > > > > > > Is it possible to pull just that fix? I spent part of > > > yesterday building world, and contrary to popular belief, > > > not all hardware contain a 32-core uber-fast ryzen cpu. > > > > > > Can people please test their simple changes prior to > > > committing? > > > > > > -- > > > Steve > > -- > Steve > >
Re: buildkernel is broken
Thanks, but root[216] git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a fatal: bad revision '37f604b49d4a' root[217] pwd /usr/src -- steve On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 11:24:47AM -0400, Ryan Stone wrote: > You could "git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a; git restore --unstaged > sys/net/vnet.h" to apply the fix to your local tree without committing > it or leaving it staged for commit. > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:50 AM Steve Kargl > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:38:43AM -0400, Ryan Stone wrote: > > > Okay, update your tree and it should be fixed then. > > > > Is it possible to pull just that fix? I spent part of > > yesterday building world, and contrary to popular belief, > > not all hardware contain a 32-core uber-fast ryzen cpu. > > > > Can people please test their simple changes prior to > > committing? > > > > -- > > Steve -- Steve
Re: buildkernel is broken
Or you could cherry-pick the fix. When you update git pull --rebase will automatically drop it when you rebase past that spot. Or if you have a branch, you can do the same to the branch and when you rebase past the fix, it will automatically drop. Warner On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 9:25 AM Ryan Stone wrote: > You could "git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a; git restore --unstaged > sys/net/vnet.h" to apply the fix to your local tree without committing > it or leaving it staged for commit. > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:50 AM Steve Kargl > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:38:43AM -0400, Ryan Stone wrote: > > > Okay, update your tree and it should be fixed then. > > > > Is it possible to pull just that fix? I spent part of > > yesterday building world, and contrary to popular belief, > > not all hardware contain a 32-core uber-fast ryzen cpu. > > > > Can people please test their simple changes prior to > > committing? > > > > -- > > Steve > >
Re: buildkernel is broken
You could "git cherry-pick -n 37f604b49d4a; git restore --unstaged sys/net/vnet.h" to apply the fix to your local tree without committing it or leaving it staged for commit. On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 10:50 AM Steve Kargl wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:38:43AM -0400, Ryan Stone wrote: > > Okay, update your tree and it should be fixed then. > > Is it possible to pull just that fix? I spent part of > yesterday building world, and contrary to popular belief, > not all hardware contain a 32-core uber-fast ryzen cpu. > > Can people please test their simple changes prior to > committing? > > -- > Steve
Re: buildkernel is broken
On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 10:38:43AM -0400, Ryan Stone wrote: > Okay, update your tree and it should be fixed then. Is it possible to pull just that fix? I spent part of yesterday building world, and contrary to popular belief, not all hardware contain a 32-core uber-fast ryzen cpu. Can people please test their simple changes prior to committing? -- Steve
Re: buildkernel is broken
Okay, update your tree and it should be fixed then.
Re: buildkernel is broken
Yes, I do. Deleting the line allows to code to compile. -- steve On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 08:24:47AM -0400, Ryan Stone wrote: > Do you have VNET disabled in your kernel config? I believe that this > was fixed by 37f604b49d4a. > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 1:07 AM Steve Kargl > wrote: > > > > -std=iso9899:1999 -Werror /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_input.c > > --- modules-all --- > > /usr/src/sys/netpfil/ipfw/ip_dn_io.c:674:4: error: 'continue' statement not > > in loop statement > > continue; > > ^ > > 1 error generated. > > *** [ip_dn_io.o] Error code 1 > > > > make[4]: stopped in /usr/src/sys/modules/dummynet > > 1 error > > *** [modules-all] Error code 6 > > > > make[2]: stopped in /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/SPEW > > 1 error > > > > make[2]: stopped in /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/SPEW > > 5.75 real20.45 user 2.30 sys > > > > make[1]: stopped in /usr/src > > > > > > Please fix. > > > > -- > > Steve > > -- Steve
Re: problem with bhyve, ryzen 5800x, freebsd guest
You probably should set up a dump device to get crash info, stack, etc. —— Vitaliy Gusev > On 7 Jul 2022, at 15:29, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > > I have a strange issue with running an 'appliance' image based on FreeBSD 12 > in bhyve on a machine with Ryzen 5800x processor. > > The problem is that the guest would run for a while and then the host would > suddenly reset itself. It appears like a triple fault or something with > similar consequences. > > The time may be from a few dozens of minutes to many hours. > > Just to be clear, no such thing occurs if I do not run the guest. > Also, I have an older AMD system (pre-Zen), the problem does not happen there. > A vanilla FreeBSD 12.3 installation that just sits idle also does not cause > the problem. > > Does anyone have an idea what the problem could be? > What workaround or diagnostics to try? > Anybody else seen something like this? > > Since it's the host that resets it would be hard to capture any traces. > Thank you. > -- > Andriy Gapon > > > https://standforukraine.com > https://razomforukraine.org >
problem with bhyve, ryzen 5800x, freebsd guest
I have a strange issue with running an 'appliance' image based on FreeBSD 12 in bhyve on a machine with Ryzen 5800x processor. The problem is that the guest would run for a while and then the host would suddenly reset itself. It appears like a triple fault or something with similar consequences. The time may be from a few dozens of minutes to many hours. Just to be clear, no such thing occurs if I do not run the guest. Also, I have an older AMD system (pre-Zen), the problem does not happen there. A vanilla FreeBSD 12.3 installation that just sits idle also does not cause the problem. Does anyone have an idea what the problem could be? What workaround or diagnostics to try? Anybody else seen something like this? Since it's the host that resets it would be hard to capture any traces. Thank you. -- Andriy Gapon https://standforukraine.com https://razomforukraine.org
Re: buildkernel is broken
Do you have VNET disabled in your kernel config? I believe that this was fixed by 37f604b49d4a. On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 1:07 AM Steve Kargl wrote: > > -std=iso9899:1999 -Werror /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_input.c > --- modules-all --- > /usr/src/sys/netpfil/ipfw/ip_dn_io.c:674:4: error: 'continue' statement not > in loop statement > continue; > ^ > 1 error generated. > *** [ip_dn_io.o] Error code 1 > > make[4]: stopped in /usr/src/sys/modules/dummynet > 1 error > *** [modules-all] Error code 6 > > make[2]: stopped in /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/SPEW > 1 error > > make[2]: stopped in /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/SPEW > 5.75 real20.45 user 2.30 sys > > make[1]: stopped in /usr/src > > > Please fix. > > -- > Steve >
