Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Nathan Dorfman nat...@rtfm.net writes: Certain shareware lose95 FTP servers don't know how to do passive mode. No need to go looking through Windows software; the unjustly popular ncftp is equally braindead. The ncftp man page makes for very interesting (and depressing) reading; it is quite obvious that the author has never read RFC959. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Thu, May 27, 1999 at 09:46:51PM -0700, John Polstra wrote: In article pine.bsf.4.03.9905271100280.16577-100...@resnet.uoregon.edu, Doug White dwh...@resnet.uoregon.edu wrote: I second the suggestion to 'autoprobe' PASV support, and revert to active mode (w/ an appropriate msg) if PASV is refused. That won't be a good solution in practice. When passive mode doesn't work, it's almost always because a firewall on the server side is blocking the incoming data connection. The client doesn't see a refusal; its connect() call just times out. The trouble is, the timeout takes a long time (on the order of a minute or more). Certain shareware lose95 FTP servers don't know how to do passive mode. The NetBSD ftp client uses passive mode by default, but will send a PORT if the PASV is unsuccessful. John -- John Polstra j...@polstra.com John D. Polstra Co., Inc.Seattle, Washington USA Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief. -- James V. DeLong -- Nathan Dorfman nat...@rtfm.net The statements and opinions in my Unix Admin @ Frontline Communicationspublic posts are mine, not FCC's. The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an approaching train. --/usr/games/fortune To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Ollivier Robert robe...@keltia.freenix.fr writes: According to Dag-Erling Smorgrav: FTP servers which do not accept passive mode are, IMHO, broken. Their They're broken with respect to RFC-959, not only to your opinion :-) No. Allowable responses to the PASV command include 227 (Entering passive mode), 500 (Unrecognized command), 501 (Invalid parameters), 502 (Command not implemented), 421 (Service not available), and 530 (Not logged in). A server which does not wish to allow passive mode can thus choose to acknowledge the command but refuse to obey it (502), or to reject the command altogether (500). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Jordan K. Hubbard j...@zippy.cdrom.com writes: My only point was that you should make sure something is a certain way before you offer advice for dealing with its *current* behavior since, otherwise, that's just confusing to everyone. Either way, I don't think that *any* of the current sources, from libfetch to libftpio, are currently doing anything right with FTP_PASSIVE_MODE and hence this debate is also 100% academic for the time being. :-) So let's *make* them Do The Right Thing. That's what commit privs are for, after all. d...@des ~$ stable FTP_PASSIVE_MODE src/lib/libfetch/ftp.c: #define FTP_PASSIVE_MODE227 src/lib/libfetch/ftp.c: if ((e = _ftp_cmd(cf, PASV ENDL)) != FTP_PASSIVE_MODE) src/lib/libftpio/ftpio.3: .Bl -tag -width FTP_PASSIVE_MODE -offset 123 src/lib/libftpio/ftpio.3: .It Ev FTP_PASSIVE_MODE src/lib/libftpio/ftpio.c: if (getenv(FTP_PASSIVE_MODE)) src/usr.bin/fetch/fetch.1: .Bl -tag -width FTP_PASSIVE_MODE -offset indent src/usr.bin/fetch/fetch.1: .It Ev FTP_PASSIVE_MODE src/usr.bin/ftp/ftp.1: .Bl -tag -width FTP_PASSIVE_MODE src/usr.bin/ftp/ftp.1: .It Ev FTP_PASSIVE_MODE src/usr.bin/ftp/main.c: if (getenv(FTP_PASSIVE_MODE) || strcmp(cp, pftp) == 0) src/usr.sbin/pkg_install/add/pkg_add.1: FTP_PASSIVE_MODE Looks like ftpio(3) and ftp(1) both Do The Wrong Thing. Should be trivial to fix, but I have a train to catch right now :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Wed, May 26, 1999 at 03:50:21AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard j...@zippy.cdrom.com wrote: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message Yay! This is awesome. I guess in addition to ftp, the tools and libraries you talk about would also include fetch, and other firewall not so friendly things? (Would be nice if CVSup can fake FTP_PASSIVE_MODE by doing '-P -' too). -- Yan P.S. - Everyone knows allowing connections from other side's port 20 is silly since root can control src port. Hell, nmap even does port scan with source port of 20 if you ask it to. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Jordan K. Hubbard j...@zippy.cdrom.com writes: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. I agree that passive mode should be the default. I do not agree that the tools should be changed to reflect this. I suggest that we instead set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE to YES in some suitable place (e.g. /etc/profile, /etc/cshrc). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Doug White dwh...@resnet.uoregon.edu writes: I second the suggestion to 'autoprobe' PASV support, and revert to active mode (w/ an appropriate msg) if PASV is refused. No. Ncftp tries to do this, and provides adequate proof that it is not practical. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Dan Langille junkm...@xtra.co.nz writes: For the argument that some ftp servers don't accept passive mode, I say it's a question of numbers: which default setting will satisfy the greatest number of people? which setting will reduce the number of questions how do I do X? FTP servers which do not accept passive mode are, IMHO, broken. Their loss. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Jan B. Koum j...@best.com writes: Yay! This is awesome. I guess in addition to ftp, the tools and libraries you talk about would also include fetch, and other firewall not so friendly things? (Would be nice if CVSup can fake FTP_PASSIVE_MODE by doing '-P -' too). CVSup uses multiplexed mode by default, which means it multiplexes its various data channels over a single TCP connection. The server does not (should not) attempt to connect back to the client. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On 28 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: Jan B. Koum j...@best.com writes: Yay! This is awesome. I guess in addition to ftp, the tools and libraries you talk about would also include fetch, and other firewall not so friendly things? (Would be nice if CVSup can fake FTP_PASSIVE_MODE by doing '-P -' too). CVSup uses multiplexed mode by default, which means it multiplexes its various data channels over a single TCP connection. The server does not (should not) attempt to connect back to the client. No. $ /usr/local/bin/cvsup /usr/src-supfile -g -L 2 ... Establishing active-mode data connection Timed out waiting for connection from server. Check your firewall setup or try the -P m option And it never gets there (firewall is 3 hops down the road). '-P m' does change the behaviour. Nick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Nick Hibma nick.hi...@jrc.it writes: On 28 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: CVSup uses multiplexed mode by default, which means it multiplexes its various data channels over a single TCP connection. The server does not (should not) attempt to connect back to the client. No. Yes, it does. If your version doesn't, you're way overdue for an upgrade :) The documentation for CVSup 16.0 says The modes provided for this are multiplexed mode, passive mode, SOCKS mode, and active mode. All but multiplexed mode are deprecated. Multiplexed mode can handle any situation that the other modes can handle. By default the channels are established in multiplexed mode, if the server is new enough to support it. I can't remember how long multiplexed mode has been the default, but I'm sure it was already the default in 15.4 or whatever was the last version before 16.0. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
CVSup uses multiplexed mode by default, which means it multiplexes its various data channels over a single TCP connection. The server does not (should not) attempt to connect back to the client. No. $ /usr/local/bin/cvsup /usr/src-supfile -g -L 2 ... Establishing active-mode data connection Timed out waiting for connection from server. Check your firewall setup or try the -P m option And it never gets there (firewall is 3 hops down the road). '-P m' does change the behaviour. You're probably still running cvsup 15.4 or earlier. As of version 16, multiplexed mode is the default. Upgrade, if it's that important. I'm still running 15.4 at a lot of places... works well enough for cvsup make world, even with the (petty) annoyance of '-P m'. ==Michael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On 28 May 1999 at 14:05, Dag-Erling Smorgrav d...@flood.ping.uio.no wrote: FTP servers which do not accept passive mode are, IMHO, broken. Their loss. I'll second that opinion. Netscape and Microsoft browsers, at least, have been using passive FTP for years (1994 or earlier). One could argue that these are the most used FTP clients in the world, and has made passive mode a de facto requirement for public FTP servers. Jacques Vidrine / n...@nectar.cc / nec...@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
According to Dag-Erling Smorgrav: FTP servers which do not accept passive mode are, IMHO, broken. Their They're broken with respect to RFC-959, not only to your opinion :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- robe...@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #71: Sun May 9 20:16:32 CEST 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Fri, May 28, 1999 at 02:09:19PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav d...@flood.ping.uio.no wrote: Jan B. Koum j...@best.com writes: Yay! This is awesome. I guess in addition to ftp, the tools and libraries you talk about would also include fetch, and other firewall not so friendly things? (Would be nice if CVSup can fake FTP_PASSIVE_MODE by doing '-P -' too). CVSup uses multiplexed mode by default, which means it multiplexes its various data channels over a single TCP connection. The server does not (should not) attempt to connect back to the client. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no I know how CVSup works. If you are behind firewall, you need to use -P - command line switch. What I am saying, is that it would be nice if CVSup would use passive mode by default now also (like ftp/fetch will). -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Fri, May 28, 1999 at 03:13:55PM -0700, Jan B. Koum jkb wrote: On Fri, May 28, 1999 at 02:09:19PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav d...@flood.ping.uio.no wrote: Jan B. Koum j...@best.com writes: Yay! This is awesome. I guess in addition to ftp, the tools and libraries you talk about would also include fetch, and other firewall not so friendly things? (Would be nice if CVSup can fake FTP_PASSIVE_MODE by doing '-P -' too). CVSup uses multiplexed mode by default, which means it multiplexes its various data channels over a single TCP connection. The server does not (should not) attempt to connect back to the client. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no I know how CVSup works. If you are behind firewall, you need to use -P - command line switch. What I am saying, is that it would be nice if CVSup would use passive mode by default now also (like ftp/fetch will). -- Yan Never mind me. I go upgrade now ;) -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
* From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav d...@flood.ping.uio.no * FTP servers which do not accept passive mode are, IMHO, broken. Their * loss. No. The losers will be our users who can't talk to them. I don't have a problem with changing the default as long as there are ways to turn them off easily (read: on a per-port basis). Can we cancel an environment variable set in /etc/login.conf from a Makefile? -PW To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Jan B. Koum j...@best.com writes: I know how CVSup works. If you are behind firewall, you need to use -P - command line switch. [...] No. I use CVSup from behind a firewall daily (actually, 23 times a day on one box and 24 times a day on another) without any fancy switches. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
as...@freebsd.org (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) writes: * From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav d...@flood.ping.uio.no * FTP servers which do not accept passive mode are, IMHO, broken. Their * loss. No. The losers will be our users who can't talk to them. I don't have a problem with changing the default as long as there are ways to turn them off easily (read: on a per-port basis). Can we cancel an environment variable set in /etc/login.conf from a Makefile? If we just set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES in /etc/login.conf or /etc/profile, all the user needs to do is set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=NO before trying to fetch the port. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
* From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav d...@flood.ping.uio.no
* I don't have a problem with changing the default as long as there are
* ways to turn them off easily (read: on a per-port basis). Can we
* cancel an environment variable set in /etc/login.conf from a Makefile?
*
* If we just set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES in /etc/login.conf or
* /etc/profile, all the user needs to do is set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=NO
* before trying to fetch the port.
No. This is from libftpio/ftpio.c:
===
static void
check_passive(FILE *fp)
{
if (getenv(FTP_PASSIVE_MODE))
ftpPassive(fp, TRUE);
}
===
Satoshi
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Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
as...@freebsd.org (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) writes: No. This is from libftpio/ftpio.c: Libftpio will shortly be deprecated. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
If we just set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES in /etc/login.conf or /etc/profile, all the user needs to do is set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=NO before trying to fetch the port. Heh, no. UTSL. All the code which checks this, checks to see if it's set to anything at all, not if it's set explicitly to YES. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Jordan K. Hubbard j...@zippy.cdrom.com writes: If we just set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES in /etc/login.conf or /etc/profile, all the user needs to do is set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=NO before trying to fetch the port. Heh, no. UTSL. All the code which checks this, checks to see if it's set to anything at all, not if it's set explicitly to YES. :) In that case, the source is wrong. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
* From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav d...@flood.ping.uio.no * Libftpio will shortly be deprecated. Fine. Just make sure /etc/login.conf is not updated too early then. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Well, if we're replacing it with libfetch then either fetch(1) or libfetch(3) need to check it too. At the moment, neither does - I just checked. :-) - Jordan as...@freebsd.org (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) writes: No. This is from libftpio/ftpio.c: Libftpio will shortly be deprecated. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
No, you're the one who's wrong, the source is simply the source. :-) My only point was that you should make sure something is a certain way before you offer advice for dealing with its *current* behavior since, otherwise, that's just confusing to everyone. Either way, I don't think that *any* of the current sources, from libfetch to libftpio, are currently doing anything right with FTP_PASSIVE_MODE and hence this debate is also 100% academic for the time being. :-) - Jordan Jordan K. Hubbard j...@zippy.cdrom.com writes: If we just set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES in /etc/login.conf or /etc/profile, all the user needs to do is set FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=NO before trying to fetch the port. Heh, no. UTSL. All the code which checks this, checks to see if it's set to anything at all, not if it's set explicitly to YES. :) In that case, the source is wrong. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Jordan K. Hubbard j...@zippy.cdrom.com writes: Well, if we're replacing it with libfetch then either fetch(1) or libfetch(3) need to check it too. At the moment, neither does - I just checked. :-) Umm, I'm kinda embarassed. The 19990529 patchkit fixes that :) URL:http://www.freebsd.org/~des/software/fetch-19990529.tgz DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Wed, 26 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? Very sensible. You have my vote. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On 26 May 99, at 23:50, Adam wrote: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. If they already examine FTP_PASSIVE_MODE, why not just set it to YES by default somewhere? That makes more sense to me than introducing a new flag. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
I could accept this as an alternative implementation, no problem. All I care about is the functionality, and I'd personally be happier not to have to document a new flag. :) I'll see what setting it in login.conf does - that *should* solve the problem swiftly and easily. - Jordan On 26 May 99, at 23:50, Adam wrote: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. If they already examine FTP_PASSIVE_MODE, why not just set it to YES by default somewhere? That makes more sense to me than introducing a new flag. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Wed, 26 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: I could accept this as an alternative implementation, no problem. All I care about is the functionality, and I'd personally be happier not to have to document a new flag. :) I'll see what setting it in login.conf does - that *should* solve the problem swiftly and easily. I second the suggestion to 'autoprobe' PASV support, and revert to active mode (w/ an appropriate msg) if PASV is refused. Also, please preserve the -[pP] flag, even if it's noop'd. Just covering bases. :) Doug White Internet: dwh...@resnet.uoregon.edu| FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite| www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
In article pine.bsf.4.03.9905271100280.16577-100...@resnet.uoregon.edu, Doug White dwh...@resnet.uoregon.edu wrote: I second the suggestion to 'autoprobe' PASV support, and revert to active mode (w/ an appropriate msg) if PASV is refused. That won't be a good solution in practice. When passive mode doesn't work, it's almost always because a firewall on the server side is blocking the incoming data connection. The client doesn't see a refusal; its connect() call just times out. The trouble is, the timeout takes a long time (on the order of a minute or more). John -- John Polstra j...@polstra.com John D. Polstra Co., Inc.Seattle, Washington USA Self-interest is the aphrodisiac of belief. -- James V. DeLong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
FTP passive mode - a new default?
Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On 26 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard proclaimed: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? Please do. However, a suitable notice must be plastered somewhere suitable (RELNOTES?). It might also be worth noting in ipfw(8). -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator Value of 2 may go down as well as up -- FORTRAN programmers manual -- ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Is there a list of pro-/cons- available? - it is slower, but by how much and on which types of lines (low/high latency, low/high bandwidth)? - any (windows) tools not supporting it? Nick Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On 26-May-99 Nick Hibma wrote: Is there a list of pro-/cons- available? - it is slower, but by how much and on which types of lines (low/high latency, low/high bandwidth)? - any (windows) tools not supporting it? Well funnily enough some servers won't allow passive mode, and I have seen a broken server/firewall combo which meant that passive ftp wouldn't work because the firewall denied the clients connection for passive mode (very duh). FTP passive mode works by getting the server to bind to a port and telling the client to connect to that to get/send the data, whereas normal ftp mode the client binds the port and the server connects to it. FreeBSD's ftpd allows you to specify a port range for passive ftp so you don't have to have your system wide open. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
RE: FTP passive mode - a new default?
-Original Message- From: Nick Hibma [SMTP:nick.hi...@jrc.it] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 1:38 PM To: Jordan K. Hubbard Cc: curr...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FTP passive mode - a new default? Is there a list of pro-/cons- available? - it is slower, but by how much and on which types of lines (low/high latency, low/high bandwidth)? [ML] same speed. passive means that the client (and not the server) opens the data connection. advantageous for people sitting behind packet or nat firewalls. - any (windows) tools not supporting it? [ML] this is an ftp client request. some ancient ftp servers may not support passive data connections, but I haven't seen one of those in a long while. I don't know whether the windows ftpd is incapable of passive mode. actually, if the passive mode default is implemented correctly, the client should send PASV and if the server accepts it proceed, otherwise remain in active mode (and if you are behind a nat or a firewall you are no worse off than you already were). /Marino Nick Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? so the difference between the current and proposed is: FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YESvs FTP_ACTIVE_MODE=NO FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=NO vs FTP_ACTIVE_MODE=YES do any apps check for FTP_ACTIVE_MODE? are we going to apply patches to each app to check for this and maintains those patches over the course of time? seems to be a change without commensurate benefit.it will confuse some, suprise others and doesnt seem to offer substantial benefit. recommend against the change. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Wed, 26 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? Yay! -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | win...@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? Gofer it! Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On 26 May 99, at 3:50, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? It would surely simplify some things. If you are using a firewall, you'll need passive mode. If you're not using a firewall, passive mode won't bother you one bit. For the argument that some ftp servers don't accept passive mode, I say it's a question of numbers: which default setting will satisfy the greatest number of people? which setting will reduce the number of questions how do I do X? -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Wed, 26 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? Wouldn't bother me a bit. I just set up a firewall and now need passive mode to do any FTPing to outside hosts. Passive shouldn't hurt people who don't have firewalls anyway, so go for it. -- Chris Dillon - cdil...@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdil...@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and Alpha architectures (SPARC under development). ( http://www.freebsd.org ) One should admire Windows users. It takes a great deal of courage to trust Windows with your data. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
On Wed, May 26, 1999 at 07:54:03AM -0700, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? do any apps check for FTP_ACTIVE_MODE? are we going to apply patches to each app to check for this and maintains those patches over the course of time? seems to be a change without commensurate benefit.it will confuse some, suprise others and doesnt seem to offer substantial benefit. It has the (large!) benefit of NATed[1] and firewalled users getting a working setup at once. I'm in favour. [1] Those using natd/ppp -alias will get this already, due to a protocol translator in libalias. Alas, this does not combine with firewalls on the NAT machine unless somebody choose to activate the code I added to libalias to punch 'holes' in ipfw. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
do any apps check for FTP_ACTIVE_MODE? are we going to apply patches to each app to check for this and maintains those patches over the course of time? seems to be a change without commensurate benefit.it will confuse some, suprise others and doesnt seem to offer substantial benefit. It has the (large!) benefit of NATed[1] and firewalled users getting a working setup at once. I'm in favour. changing the default to FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES would accomplish the same thing, no? i agree that this is good. i disgree about changin the name of the knob to FTP_ACTIVE_MODE. jmb [1] Those using natd/ppp -alias will get this already, due to a protocol translator in libalias. Alas, this does not combine with firewalls on the NAT machine unless somebody choose to activate the code I added to libalias to punch 'holes' in ipfw. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FTP passive mode - a new default?
Unless I hear unanimous fierce outcry against it, I'm strongly considering making FTP_PASSIVE_MODE obsolete by virtue of being the default for all tools/libraries which currently examine it. If they already examine FTP_PASSIVE_MODE, why not just set it to YES by default somewhere? FTP_ACTIVE_MODE will be the new flag for toggling the previous behavior. Given the state of the Internet today, I think this is purely a sensible change in defaults. Comments? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
