Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013, at 14:49, Garrett Wollman wrote: Strongly agreed -- and it's what other operating systems do, either by policy or by convention. As long as this behavior only happens during pkg installs and never with ports, I'm OK. The worst is when a coworker forgets that the mysql port stops the daemon and my coworker upgrades with portmaster... the daemon is off the entire time mysql slowly compiles... ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:34:05 -0500 Mark Felder wrote: On Sun, Jul 14, 2013, at 14:49, Garrett Wollman wrote: Strongly agreed -- and it's what other operating systems do, either by policy or by convention. As long as this behavior only happens during pkg installs and never with ports, I'm OK. The worst is when a coworker forgets that the mysql port stops the daemon and my coworker upgrades with portmaster... the daemon is off the entire time mysql slowly compiles... Is that really correct? I would expect the deinstall to be done after the build has completed successfully. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:34:05 -0500, Mark Felder wrote: As long as this behavior only happens during pkg installs and never with ports, I'm OK. The worst is when a coworker forgets that the mysql port stops the daemon and my coworker upgrades with portmaster... the daemon is off the entire time mysql slowly compiles... I'm not familiar with portmaster, since I use portupgrade. That does the build first, then the deinstall old/install new. Seems a sensible approach anyway, in case the build fails. Doesn't portmaster work similarly? ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:46:03PM +, Walter Hurry wrote: On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:34:05 -0500, Mark Felder wrote: As long as this behavior only happens during pkg installs and never with ports, I'm OK. The worst is when a coworker forgets that the mysql port stops the daemon and my coworker upgrades with portmaster... the daemon is off the entire time mysql slowly compiles... I'm not familiar with portmaster, since I use portupgrade. That does the build first, then the deinstall old/install new. Seems a sensible approach anyway, in case the build fails. Doesn't portmaster work similarly? Yes. PM builds, creates a backup package, deinstalls the old packages, installs the new one. pgp2inH11AJYo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
Walter Hurry wrote: On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:34:05 -0500, Mark Felder wrote: As long as this behavior only happens during pkg installs and never with ports, I'm OK. The worst is when a coworker forgets that the mysql port stops the daemon and my coworker upgrades with portmaster... the daemon is off the entire time mysql slowly compiles... I'm not familiar with portmaster, since I use portupgrade. That does the build first, then the deinstall old/install new. Seems a sensible approach anyway, in case the build fails. Doesn't portmaster work similarly? Try doing a 'portupgrade -f isc-dhcp41-server' and watch it leave dhcpd not running. I eventually made the following change so that it wouldn't leave my system in a broken state: /usr/ports/net/isc-dhcp41-server # make clean === Cleaning for isc-dhcp41-server-4.1.e_7,2 [fw2.smmt] /usr/ports/net/isc-dhcp41-server # svn diff Index: pkg-plist === --- pkg-plist (revision 323024) +++ pkg-plist (working copy) @@ -1,6 +1,4 @@ @comment $FreeBSD$ -@unexec %D/etc/rc.d/isc-dhcpd forcestop 2/dev/null || true -%%IPV6%%@unexec %D/etc/rc.d/isc-dhcpd6 forcestop 2/dev/null || true @unexec if cmp -s %D/etc/dhcpd.conf.sample %D/etc/dhcpd.conf; then rm -f %D/etc/dhcpd.conf; fi etc/dhcpd.conf.sample @exec if [ ! -f %D/etc/dhcpd.conf ] ; then cp -p %D/%F %B/dhcpd.conf; fi I don't mind it stopping the daemon, but if it's going to automatically stop it, it should automatically start it too. It's also not consistent - random sample of two: exim and quagga just leave the daemon running. I'm just asking if there's a stated project guideline for what should happen because at the moment it's hard to know what to expect. Maybe its as simple as an install exec that does a 'service foo start'. If it's a first install it will fail because foo_enable=yes won't be set in /etc/rc.conf. Personally, I'd rather that the package management system ports,pkg,etc doesn't take liberties with my running daemons. If I want to kill them off, I'll kill them off, but there have been several times where I've left uninstalled things running while the system was in flux during an upgrade. It was nice to be able to do that. Ian -- Ian Freislich ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013, at 8:44, RW wrote: Is that really correct? I would expect the deinstall to be done after the build has completed successfully. That might not be accurate with a current portmaster, but we used to have that happen all too frequently. I just checked the plist and it has @stopdaemon mysql-server, so I'm guessing portmaster would run that too prematurely. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Mark Felder f...@freebsd.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 15, 2013, at 8:44, RW wrote: Is that really correct? I would expect the deinstall to be done after the build has completed successfully. That might not be accurate with a current portmaster, but we used to have that happen all too frequently. I just checked the plist and it has @stopdaemon mysql-server, so I'm guessing portmaster would run that too prematurely. The reality is that some ports take a LONG time to just install, especially when libtool is involved. I want the old daemon running until the old one is installed. Then either the make or I can restart the daemon which results in a downtime of about two or three seconds. Stopping before the new version is installed guarantees a much longer outage. Yes, I also see some possible nasty races in a few cases, not most would be fine. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: rkober...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Ian FREISLICH i...@clue.co.za wrote: Hi I have to ask if there's a standard for the way ports should handle their daemons when the port is uninstalled. I've encountered 3 varients of ports behaviour on uninstall: 1. Do nothing 2. Stop the daemon 3. Ask if the daemon should be stopped #1 closely followed by #3 are the least irritating when it comes to portupgrade because you can at least have the service running while upgrading. At least with #3 the upgrade gets paused until the propmpt is answered and you're then aware that some service will go away immediately so you can be prepared to restart it. #2 is extremely irritating because upgrading with portupgrade etc kills the service. For instance isc-dhcpd* does this which means that for some time, dhcp may be unavailable. It could be less irritating if it would automatically start the service, but that can have its own problems. Does the project have a preferred method for handling running daenmons on uninstall? I know that Linux will even start daemons on install. Personally, I prefer that when uninstalling a port, that the daemon gets stopped. But if you are upgrading a port, then you will want the daemon to be re-started. This should be possible with the new pkg tools, but I don't know if it is implemented: pkg install isc-dhcpd42-server - pkg installs the port doesn't start service - admin starts service with /usr/local/etc/rc.d/isc-dhcpd start pkg upgrade isc-dhcp42-server - pkg checks the repository and finds a new version and asks if you want it installed - pkg checks if the service(s) is running, saves the status for later - pkg uninstalls the old port - pkg installs the new port - pkg checks the saved status to see if it needs to restart the service(s) pkg uninstall isc-dhcpd42-server - pkg uninstalls the port and stops the service if running -- DISCLAIMER: No electrons were maimed while sending this message. Only slightly bruised. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 05:52:37PM +0200, Ian FREISLICH wrote: I have to ask if there's a standard for the way ports should handle their daemons when the port is uninstalled. I've encountered 3 varients of ports behaviour on uninstall: 1. Do nothing 2. Stop the daemon 3. Ask if the daemon should be stopped #1 closely followed by #3 are the least irritating when it comes to portupgrade because you can at least have the service running while upgrading. At least with #3 the upgrade gets paused until the propmpt is answered and you're then aware that some service will go away immediately so you can be prepared to restart it. #2 is extremely irritating because upgrading with portupgrade etc kills the service. For instance isc-dhcpd* does this which means that for some time, dhcp may be unavailable. It could be less irritating if it would automatically start the service, but that can have its own problems. Does the project have a preferred method for handling running daenmons on uninstall? I know that Linux will even start daemons on install. I think that almost all of this per-port code should be removed with pkgng. The HANDLE_RC_SCRIPTS pkg.conf option will stop/start the rc.d script during deinstallation/installation. By default, services are left running. Stopping the service on deinstall but not starting it again on install seems like a particularly bad idea. Apart from the annoyance of the restarts, automatic stopping and starting is probably the best policy for having things just work. Some daemons will crash or otherwise stop being useful when their files have been deleted or replaced, and the new rc.d script might be unable to stop the old daemon. -- Jilles Tjoelker ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ports with daemons on uninstall...
In article 20130714191725.ga30...@stack.nl, jil...@stack.nl writes: Apart from the annoyance of the restarts, automatic stopping and starting is probably the best policy for having things just work. Some daemons will crash or otherwise stop being useful when their files have been deleted or replaced, and the new rc.d script might be unable to stop the old daemon. Strongly agreed -- and it's what other operating systems do, either by policy or by convention. -GAWollman ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
