Re: trek73
On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Jim Bryant wrote: No matter what Lush Rimbaugh says on the topic, frivilous lawsuits RARELY win in court. A lawsuit over this would indeed be frivilous. You don't have to win in court, you merely have to exhaust the resources of your opponent. Walnut Creek doesn't have a huge amount of resources, and the amount they're likely to dedicate to defending a case like this is minimal, I suspect. Followups to -chat. -- Ben Rosengart UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group StarMedia Network, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: I found a copy of the C version of trek73 in my Amiga archives. This is the trek73 originally written in HP-2000 Basic that was rewritten by Dave Pare and Chris Williams in C and seriously enhanced by a bunch of people including me in my early college years circa 1985. I don't think any of the authors would mind if it went into /usr/games, but tracking them down is close to impossible since ucbvax no longer exists. If nobody knows different, I would like to clean it up (fairly easy since it's already in C) and commit it in. Is it worth worrying about trademark issues [1]? We still have trek in the base system, but adding a second version might wake the lawyers. Kris [1] See boggle(6) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
In reply: On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: I found a copy of the C version of trek73 in my Amiga archives. This is the trek73 originally written in HP-2000 Basic that was rewritten by Dave Pare and Chris Williams in C and seriously enhanced by a bunch of people including me in my early college years circa 1985. I don't think any of the authors would mind if it went into /usr/games, but tracking them down is close to impossible since ucbvax no longer exists. If nobody knows different, I would like to clean it up (fairly easy since it's already in C) and commit it in. Is it worth worrying about trademark issues [1]? We still have trek in the base system, but adding a second version might wake the lawyers. Kris [1] See boggle(6) Gimme a break... If Paramount wanted to go after "unauthorized" trek paraphenalia, they have much larger fish to fry than a CLASSIC public-domain trek game distributed with a FREE operating system that tens or even hundreds of thousands of people have played over a period of nearly 30 years. I believe I have even heard Shatner himself in interviews credit such "unauthorized" things for keeping Trek alive in the first place... If it came out that Paramount ever tried litigation over such things, they would lose a LOT of fans, and the money in their pockets! What would come next? Sueing people at conventions for getting the uniforms wrong? The boggle(6) incident has probably cost it's manufacturer lost sales, because they played the incident like jerks. I cheered when they were named in the Toys-R-Us class-action lawsuit, because they were such jerks here. Bottom line: such games do not hurt the sales of any commercial product. Litigation against such games only hurt the reputation of the one bringing or threatening the litigation in the first place, and tends to make them look like assholes in the eyes of the public. [1] See boggle(6), which by the way compiles fine from the net(n) distributions, plus all of the 4.4 distributions. To hell with Hasbro. The BSD game would have survived patent infringement suit, it was not an EXACT duplicate, it actually had improvements over the dice game. Improve a patented item, and you can do anything you want. I cannot say that Paramount wouldn't do it, but I can say that if it did, it would detrimentally effect the entire Trek sub-culture; and they are perfectly aware of this fact, such things have been mentioned in interviews with the stars and producers in a POSITIVE light time and time again. I can probably arrange a statement from at least three of the stars of the original series to this effect. I may just do that, maybe I can get a statement from all of the surviving members of the original cast. The have made it clear in the past that they credit their ongoing fame to such underground paraphenalia. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you| "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - KC5VDJ HF to 23cm grid: EM28pw - http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant -- IC-706MkII - IC-T81A - HTX-202 - HTX-212 - HTX-404 - KPC3+ - PK-232MBX/DSP To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Jim Bryant wrote: "unauthorized" things for keeping Trek alive in the first place... If it came out that Paramount ever tried litigation over such things, they would lose a LOT of fans, and the money in their pockets! What would come next? Sueing people at conventions for getting the uniforms wrong? Or sueing fan websites, perhaps? The boggle(6) incident has probably cost it's manufacturer lost sales, because they played the incident like jerks. I cheered when they were named in the Toys-R-Us class-action lawsuit, because they were such jerks here. I doubt it. Most people who followed the debate on FreeBSD-hackers probably weren't likely to buy a copy of boggle anyway. Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
In reply: On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Jim Bryant wrote: "unauthorized" things for keeping Trek alive in the first place... If it came out that Paramount ever tried litigation over such things, they would lose a LOT of fans, and the money in their pockets! What would come next? Sueing people at conventions for getting the uniforms wrong? Or sueing fan websites, perhaps? Isn't this more or less precisely what happened once X-Files became popular enough to not need them anymore? DS In case you haven't noticed... The current Trek series' have an ever-dwindling audience. The ONLY thing keeping Voyager alive is widely accepted to be the Borg chick with the extremely fine hooters and the pouty voice. Their litigation money would be better spent going after those unauthorized items that are commercial products, and there is an endless supply of those. If litigation was ever threatened over this CLASSIC public-domain 27 year old game, we can always dig up interviews with the stars and producers to back us up. All true Trekkies have heard the interviews. Trek has always been an underground phenomenon. This game has existed in various forms since 1973, and has never been a commercial product. Paramount would be hard-pressed to prove that they have lost one dime as a result of this game. Burdon of proof is on the litigant. This game in fact when put side by side with a modern trek game in front of a jury would only prove to a jury how frivilous and petty such a suit would be in the first place. The Trek sub-culture is unique. A universe without money, where prestige is based on accomplishment, and not what family you were born into or how big your bank accounts are. Ten or fifteen years earlier, and the right wing would have blackballed Roddenberry as a commie. "Humans are capable of so much more than we yet understand. We're really something! Star Trek fans really believe that, and so do I." -- Gene Roddenberry jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you| "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - KC5VDJ HF to 23cm grid: EM28pw - http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant -- IC-706MkII - IC-T81A - HTX-202 - HTX-212 - HTX-404 - KPC3+ - PK-232MBX/DSP To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
You're talking as if litigious corporations follow logic and common sense. This is more the exception than the rule IMO. Don't construe this as arguing against the inclusion of trek73 ... I think you're probably right that the risk is minimal, but for different reasons. -- Ben Rosengart UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group StarMedia Network, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
In reply: On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: I found a copy of the C version of trek73 in my Amiga archives. This is the trek73 originally written in HP-2000 Basic that was rewritten by Dave Pare and Chris Williams in C and seriously enhanced by a bunch of people including me in my early college years circa 1985. I don't think any of the authors would mind if it went into /usr/games, but tracking them down is close to impossible since ucbvax no longer exists. If nobody knows different, I would like to clean it up (fairly easy since it's already in C) and commit it in. I've included the docs below. Remembering from ancient history, didn't this make the rounds to just about anyone who wanted to learn code? I think it was even in a DEC games book. I think putting this into games is safe, but there's another trek in games already ... I haven't played trek in a looong time, is this one better in some way than the one already there? If it doesn't get into /usr/games, anyhow, it can certainly go into ports. we used to play a startrek [multi-user] at buena high school in ventura on the PDP-11/44 and was written in BASIC-Plus 2 under RSTS/E in 1984. It could have been a port of the same game... i've been looking for that one for years. i lost my only listing of that in one of my moves to texas from calif in 1986... jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you| "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - KC5VDJ HF to 23cm grid: EM28pw - http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant -- IC-706MkII - IC-T81A - HTX-202 - HTX-212 - HTX-404 - KPC3+ - PK-232MBX/DSP To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found a copy of the C version of trek73 in my Amiga archives. This is the trek73 originally written in HP-2000 Basic that was rewritten by Dave Pare and Chris Williams in C and seriously enhanced by a bunch of people including me in my early college years circa 1985. Wow. Talk about ancient history. Out of curiosity, how different is this version from the one (V4.0) posted to comp.sources.games back in December, 1987? Just FYI, if this is the Jeff Okamoto I'm thinking about, he's with HP. -- Darryl Okahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
"Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: I don't think any of the authors would mind if it went into /usr/games, I certainly wouldn't. It would be an old game returning home to the Berkeley world, and I also used to play it a lot on the HP-2000. The 'ol HP 2000 access, now that brings back memories... Did you know I once wrote an entire multi-user BBS (emeryville's HP-BBS) in HP basic? But I digress.. :) - Jordan [enormous number of lines snipped] I don't want to get nasty here, but was it _really_ necessary to forward the entire, original, humungous mail to add a few lines of commentary to it ? Not all of us are sitting behind an internet connection which is being payed for by our employer, or dirt-cheap like in the US of A !! Julian E. only added a few characters, for cryin' out loud. --- Gary Jennejohn Home - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
I don't want to get nasty here, but was it _really_ necessary to forward the entire, original, humungous mail to add a few lines of commentary to Sorry, but as I already commented to another person, I actually only read the first two paragraphs of Matt's message before replying and didn't even get to the part where he included the software itself, so I frankly didn't even notice it was a large message until I got the indignant responses. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm... it looks like the one I have is older. It looks like Jeff had made a huge number of enhancements between 1985 and 1988! Pretty cool, actually, though neither game is multi-player. Well, for multi-player, we had the most fun with "xtrek" (the early version -- not the later, ultra-enhanced releases). For those of you too young to remember ;-), xtrek was an X11, multi-player (up to 16?), real-time game where you flew a ship (e.g., Federation, Klingon, Romulan, or Orion) and tried to kill the other players. You could also conquer your opponent's planets, but few people did that, as it was much more fun to go after other players. The view was 2D/top-down, looking down into a flat map of the universe, upon which your ships flew. Back around '88 or '89, we used to have a fair number of people playing after-hours. Although it had very primitive graphics by today's (or even yesterday's) standards, xtrek was easy-to-learn, easy-to-play, and a blast to play. It was extremely maddening to watch your opponent, who you were sure was toast, due to the massive photon torpedo burst you sent his way, deftly weave and avoid the torpedos, and kill you with a point-blank phaser blast. For all it's simplicity, skill played a significant part. We only stopped playing xtrek when I foolishly upgraded to one of the latest-and-greatest, ultra-feature-burdened versions. No one played it, as it was too difficult to play, and the play was unbalanced. One thing about the early xtrek: it was a funky program, as it wasn't client/server-based (later versions were, but they weren't as much fun to play). It was basically a single program/server, which opened up a window on each player's display. Still, performance was pretty good (on a *local* LAN), even on ten-year-old RISC hardware. -- Darryl Okahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
a port? On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: I found a copy of the C version of trek73 in my Amiga archives. This is the trek73 originally written in HP-2000 Basic that was rewritten by Dave Pare and Chris Williams in C and seriously enhanced by a bunch of people including me in my early college years circa 1985. I don't think any of the authors would mind if it went into /usr/games, but tracking them down is close to impossible since ucbvax no longer exists. If nobody knows different, I would like to clean it up (fairly easy since it's already in C) and commit it in. I've included the docs below. -Matt Originally written (in HP-2000 BASIC) by William K. Char, Perry Lee, and Dan Gee Rewritten in C by Dave Pare (sdcsvax!sdamos!mr-frog) and Christopher Williams (ucbvax!ucbmerlin!williams) Corrected, Completed, and Enhanced by Jeff Okamoto(ucbvax!okamoto) Peter Yee (ucbvax!yee) Matt Dillon (ucbvax!dillon) Dave Sharnoff (ucbvax!ucbcory!muir) and Joel Duisman(ucbvax!duisman) T R E K 7 3 A Star Trek(R) Battle Simulation Trek73 is a computer-simulated battle based on the famous Star Trek television series and the game Star Fleet Battles. Via computer terminal, you can clash with enemy battle cruisers, such as Klingon D-7's and Romulan Sparrowhawks, and use the same stra- tegies that Captain Kirk has used. Like Kirk, you control a Federation vessel similar to the Enterprise; a computer program directs the enemy. Victory can fall into several categories: Decisive Victory -- You completely destroy or cripple the attacking force. Tactical Victory -- You out-maneuver the enemy using high- speed escapes, corbomite bluffs, `play dead' tactics; or the enemy surrenders. Moral Victory -- You surrender or self-destruct and destroy each other. All distances are measured in megameters, one million meters (abbreviated `M'). Speed is expressed in `warp factors'. Each warp factor equals 100M per second. All angles are expressed in common degrees from zero to 360, measured counter-clockwise from the x-axis, similar to reading a protractor. Only two dimensions are used. Play is as follows: 1. You issue one of a number of commands (fire phasers, change course, launch antimatter pods, surrender, etc.) by typing the appropriate code number into the keyboard; 2. The enemy, under programmed instructions, issues a simi- lar command; 3. Both your commands are executed (phasers are fired, probes are launched, damages are assessed, courses changed, etc.) while the vessels move through space; 4. Unless certain end-game conditions are met (you destroy the enemy, the enemy destroys you, your out-maneuver the enemy, you both destroy each other, or one party surrenders) the above steps are repeated. __ Star Trek is a registered trademark of Paramount Pictures. Although technically incorrect, it does save the player from having to compute cube roots. This saves the player from having to work out problems in spherical geometry. - 1 - STAR TREK Appendix 1 displays certain weapon and shield angles. Appendix 2 depicts the Enterprise's power circuits. Appendix 3 lists certain weapon and vessel specifications. Appendix 4 lists initial deployment of resources. CODE COMMAND === 1Fire Phasers 2Fire Photon Torpedos 3Lock Phasers Onto Target 4Lock Tubes Onto Target 5Manually Rotate Phasers 6Manually Rotate Tubes 7*Phaser Status 8*Tube Status 9Load/Unload Torpedo Tubes 10 Launch Antimatter Probe 11 Probe Control (Detonate, Direct, Lock) 12 *Position Report 13 *Position Display 14 Pursue An Enemy Vessel 15 Run From An Enemy Vessel 16 Manually Change Course And Speed 17 *Damage Report 18 Scan Enemy (Damage Report Of Enemy) 19 Alter Power Distribution 20 Alter Torpedo And Phaser Firing Parameters 21
Re: trek73
I don't think any of the authors would mind if it went into /usr/games, I certainly wouldn't. It would be an old game returning home to the Berkeley world, and I also used to play it a lot on the HP-2000. The 'ol HP 2000 access, now that brings back memories... Did you know I once wrote an entire multi-user BBS (emeryville's HP-BBS) in HP basic? But I digress.. :) - Jordan but tracking them down is close to impossible since ucbvax no longer exists. If nobody knows different, I would like to clean it up (fairly easy since it's already in C) and commit it in. I've included the docs below. -Matt Originally written (in HP-2000 BASIC) by William K. Char, Perry Lee, and Dan Gee Rewritten in C by Dave Pare (sdcsvax!sdamos!mr-frog) and Christopher Williams (ucbvax!ucbmerlin!williams) Corrected, Completed, and Enhanced by Jeff Okamoto(ucbvax!okamoto) Peter Yee (ucbvax!yee) Matt Dillon (ucbvax!dillon) Dave Sharnoff (ucbvax!ucbcory!muir) and Joel Duisman(ucbvax!duisman) T R E K 7 3 A Star Trek(R) Battle Simulation Trek73 is a computer-simulated battle based on the famous Star Trek television series and the game Star Fleet Battles. Via computer terminal, you can clash with enemy battle cruisers, such as Klingon D-7's and Romulan Sparrowhawks, and use the same stra- tegies that Captain Kirk has used. Like Kirk, you control a Federation vessel similar to the Enterprise; a computer program directs the enemy. Victory can fall into several categories: Decisive Victory -- You completely destroy or cripple the attacking force. Tactical Victory -- You out-maneuver the enemy using high- speed escapes, corbomite bluffs, `play dead' tactics; or the enemy surrenders. Moral Victory -- You surrender or self-destruct and destroy each other. All distances are measured in megameters, one million meters (abbreviated `M'). Speed is expressed in `warp factors'. Each warp factor equals 100M per second. All angles are expressed in common degrees from zero to 360, measured counter-clockwise from the x-axis, similar to reading a protractor. Only two dimensions are used. Play is as follows: 1. You issue one of a number of commands (fire phasers, change course, launch antimatter pods, surrender, etc.) by typing the appropriate code number into the keyboard; 2. The enemy, under programmed instructions, issues a simi- lar command; 3. Both your commands are executed (phasers are fired, probes are launched, damages are assessed, courses changed, etc.) while the vessels move through space; 4. Unless certain end-game conditions are met (you destroy the enemy, the enemy destroys you, your out-maneuver the enemy, you both destroy each other, or one party surrenders) the above steps are repeated. __ Star Trek is a registered trademark of Paramount Pictures. Although technically incorrect, it does save the player from having to compute cube roots. This saves the player from having to work out problems in spherical geometry. - 1 - STAR TREK Appendix 1 displays certain weapon and shield angles. Appendix 2 depicts the Enterprise's power circuits. Appendix 3 lists certain weapon and vessel specifications. Appendix 4 lists initial deployment of resources. CODE COMMAND === 1Fire Phasers 2Fire Photon Torpedos 3Lock Phasers Onto Target 4Lock Tubes Onto Target 5Manually Rotate Phasers 6Manually Rotate Tubes 7*Phaser Status 8*Tube Status 9Load/Unload Torpedo Tubes 10 Launch Antimatter Probe 11 Probe Control (Detonate, Direct, Lock) 12 *Position Report 13 *Position Display 14 Pursue An Enemy Vessel 15 Run From An Enemy Vessel 16 Manually Change Course And Speed 17 *Damage Report 18 Scan Enemy (Damage Report Of Enemy) 19 Alter Power Distribution 20 Alter Torpedo And Phaser Firing Parameters 21 Jettison Engineering 22
Re: trek73
: : I don't think any of the authors would mind if it went into /usr/games, : :I certainly wouldn't. It would be an old game returning home to the :Berkeley world, and I also used to play it a lot on the HP-2000. : :The 'ol HP 2000 access, now that brings back memories... Did you know :I once wrote an entire multi-user BBS (emeryville's HP-BBS) in HP :basic? But I digress.. :) : :- Jordan Heh, I think I heard about that BBS but the only HP 2000 I ever used was the one Berkeley High had. Oh, and LHS had one too - though that might have been a higher powered model. I guess the real question is: /usr/games or /usr/ports? I don't care which, but I would personally prefer /usr/games because it really is an old-time berkeley program. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
I guess the real question is: /usr/games or /usr/ports? I don't care which, but I would personally prefer /usr/games because it really is an old-time berkeley program. Perhaps we should ask Kirk... ;) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: I found a copy of the C version of trek73 in my Amiga archives. This is the trek73 originally written in HP-2000 Basic that was rewritten by Dave Pare and Chris Williams in C and seriously enhanced by a bunch of people including me in my early college years circa 1985. I don't think any of the authors would mind if it went into /usr/games, but tracking them down is close to impossible since ucbvax no longer exists. If nobody knows different, I would like to clean it up (fairly easy since it's already in C) and commit it in. I've included the docs below. Remembering from ancient history, didn't this make the rounds to just about anyone who wanted to learn code? I think it was even in a DEC games book. I think putting this into games is safe, but there's another trek in games already ... I haven't played trek in a looong time, is this one better in some way than the one already there? If it doesn't get into /usr/games, anyhow, it can certainly go into ports. Chuck Robey| Interests include C programming, Electronics, 213 Lakeside Dr. Apt. T-1 | communications, and signal processing. Greenbelt, MD 20770| I run picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD-current(i386) and (301) 220-2114 | jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD-current(Alpha) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
I guess the real question is: /usr/games or /usr/ports? I don't care which, but I would personally prefer /usr/games because it really is an old-time berkeley program. Perhaps we should ask Kirk... ;) No. Make it a port. Policy, remember? 8) -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
No. Make it a port. Policy, remember? 8) I guess the anti-bloatists would have a point on this one... I would not object to a port. It certainly eliminates the bike shed arguments over it. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: trek73
No. Make it a port. Policy, remember? 8) I guess the anti-bloatists would have a point on this one... I would not object to a port. It certainly eliminates the bike shed arguments over it. Did anyone bother to look at /usr/src/games/trek/main.c: ** C version by Eric P. Allman 5/76 (U.C. Berkeley) with help ** from Jeff Poskanzer and Pete Rubinstein. ** ... This is the original UCB BSD version of trek as has been shipping since the BSD 2.x days -- Rod Grimes - KD7CAX - (RWG25)[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
