Re: ttys patch - any objections?
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
:
: On 26-Sep-2002 Andrew Gallatin wrote:
:
: Mark Murray writes:
:Hi
:
:The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD
:box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12).
:
:Any objections to my committing this?
:
: I object.
:
: Most of my machines are headless without video cards and use a serial
: console. With devfs this means that /dev/ttyv[1-N] do not exist and
: getty bitches like this:
:
: Sep 26 11:00:11 monet getty[543]: open /dev/ttyv1: No such file or directory
:
: Its an incredible pain in the ass to get spammed by these things on a
: 9600 baud serial console while you're editing ttys to turn the damned
: things off. I don't want to have to have 4 more lines of spam to
: deal with when installing a new server.
:
: If you also fix getty to silently ignore the problem and go to sleep
: forever, then I withdraw my objection.
:
: Index: init.c
: ===
: RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sbin/init/init.c,v
: retrieving revision 1.51
: diff -u -r1.51 init.c
: --- init.c 3 Aug 2002 16:21:33 - 1.51
: +++ init.c 26 Sep 2002 15:56:57 -
: @@ -939,7 +939,7 @@
: * then don't add the device to the session list.
: */
: if ((fd = open(sp-se_device, O_RDONLY | O_NONBLOCK, 0)) 0) {
: - if (errno == ENXIO) {
: + if (errno == ENXIO || errno == ENOENT) {
: free_session(sp);
: return (0);
: }
:
: (Maybe we should detect devfs somewhere else and use
: || devfs_present errno == ENOENT) instead.)
Why? If someone hasn't done a MAKEDEV of the device, it is just as
dead. MAKEDEV + kill -1 1 will bring it back if they didn't
(untested, but it is the normal way to do these things).
Warner
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Re: ttys patch - any objections?
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Makoto Matsushita [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : culverk This seems a lot like personal preferance to me, I for one : culverk don't like a lot of tty's, because running getty on a bunch : culverk of ttys that I'm not going to use is a waste of ram : : Seconded. Two ttys are enough for me. Many getty(8) processes usually : waste our process table entry :-) : : Usually small PC keyboards don't have their own F11/F12 key; key : combination such as Fn+F1/Fn+F2 is required (read: a little bit hard : to push). It would be better to avoid for the default configuration IMHO. I agree. I think that more ttys is a bad idea, since each one takes more memory as well (since the data space isn't shared). While this is a small amount, it is a pain for lower memory systems. I usually run three ttys myself (imp + root + spare), but it is a matter of taste. Each time someone adds more of these goof things turned on it turns into mergemaster hell for me (since I gotta do the merge on about 25 machines). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD : box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). : : Any objections to my committing this? Yes. This is a personal preference thing, and we already have enough vtys by default for most of our users. The number of people that would notice the change for the worse (Hey, alt-F8 isn't X) is likely much greater than the number of people that would ever log into the extra vtys. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
I agree. I think that more ttys is a bad idea, since each one takes more memory as well (since the data space isn't shared). While this is a small amount, it is a pain for lower memory systems. I usually run three ttys myself (imp + root + spare), but it is a matter of taste. Each time someone adds more of these goof things turned on it turns into mergemaster hell for me (since I gotta do the merge on about 25 machines). OK, I can take a hint! :-) I'll leave ttys alone. M -- o Mark Murray \_ O.\_Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
On 27-Sep-2002 M. Warner Losh wrote:
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
:
: On 26-Sep-2002 Andrew Gallatin wrote:
:
: Mark Murray writes:
:Hi
:
:The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD
:box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12).
:
:Any objections to my committing this?
:
: I object.
:
: Most of my machines are headless without video cards and use a serial
: console. With devfs this means that /dev/ttyv[1-N] do not exist and
: getty bitches like this:
:
: Sep 26 11:00:11 monet getty[543]: open /dev/ttyv1: No such file or directory
:
: Its an incredible pain in the ass to get spammed by these things on a
: 9600 baud serial console while you're editing ttys to turn the damned
: things off. I don't want to have to have 4 more lines of spam to
: deal with when installing a new server.
:
: If you also fix getty to silently ignore the problem and go to sleep
: forever, then I withdraw my objection.
:
: Index: init.c
: ===
: RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sbin/init/init.c,v
: retrieving revision 1.51
: diff -u -r1.51 init.c
: --- init.c 3 Aug 2002 16:21:33 - 1.51
: +++ init.c 26 Sep 2002 15:56:57 -
: @@ -939,7 +939,7 @@
: * then don't add the device to the session list.
: */
: if ((fd = open(sp-se_device, O_RDONLY | O_NONBLOCK, 0)) 0) {
: - if (errno == ENXIO) {
: + if (errno == ENXIO || errno == ENOENT) {
: free_session(sp);
: return (0);
: }
:
: (Maybe we should detect devfs somewhere else and use
: || devfs_present errno == ENOENT) instead.)
Why? If someone hasn't done a MAKEDEV of the device, it is just as
dead. MAKEDEV + kill -1 1 will bring it back if they didn't
(untested, but it is the normal way to do these things).
Agreed, that's why I said maybe b/c it would be preserving the
behavior for the !devfs case. I agree that I think it should actually
always just give up if the device file doesn't exist. So do people
agree with this change?
Warner
--
John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
Power Users Use the Power to Serve! - http://www.FreeBSD.org/
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: ttys patch - any objections?
John Baldwin writes: Why? If someone hasn't done a MAKEDEV of the device, it is just as dead. MAKEDEV + kill -1 1 will bring it back if they didn't (untested, but it is the normal way to do these things). Agreed, that's why I said maybe b/c it would be preserving the behavior for the !devfs case. I agree that I think it should actually always just give up if the device file doesn't exist. So do people agree with this change? Yes! Thanks, Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
:John Baldwin writes: : Why? If someone hasn't done a MAKEDEV of the device, it is just as : dead. MAKEDEV + kill -1 1 will bring it back if they didn't : (untested, but it is the normal way to do these things). : : Agreed, that's why I said maybe b/c it would be preserving the : behavior for the !devfs case. I agree that I think it should actually : always just give up if the device file doesn't exist. So do people : agree with this change? : :Yes! : :Thanks, : :Drew Yah, that makes a whole lot of sense to me too. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
Are old-style non-F11, F12 keyboards still working with FreeBSD? -- Marcin Cieslak // [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg43424/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
Are old-style non-F11, F12 keyboards still working with=20 FreeBSD? I don't know, but as those are in the vast minority, its perhaps OK to ask those folks to edit ttys to something more useful to them, rather than the other way round. :-) M -- o Mark Murray \_ O.\_Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 10:22:15AM +0100, Mark Murray wrote: Hi The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? Greedy VTY monster (cf. etc.i386/ttys,v 1.4). :-) Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sunbay Software AG, [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age msg43428/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
If you do make this change, make sure it's carefully documented in the release notes. Otherwise we're going to get a lot of surprised I can no longer get back to my X server after I switch away from it's. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects [EMAIL PROTECTED] Network Associates Laboratories On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Mark Murray wrote: Hi The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? M -- o Mark Murray \_ O.\_Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
This seems a lot like personal preferance to me, I for one don't like a lot of tty's, because running getty on a bunch of ttys that I'm not going to use is a waste of ram I usually keep F1-F3 as ttys, and make F4 run kdm. I know I don't really have a say, but I'm sure everyone has his or her own preference. Ken On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Mark Murray wrote: Hi The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? M -- o Mark Murray \_ O.\_Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
This seems a lot like personal preferance to me, I for one don't like a lot of tty's, because running getty on a bunch of ttys that I'm not going to use is a waste of ram I usually keep F1-F3 as ttys, and make F4 run kdm. I know I don't really have a say, but I'm sure everyone has his or her own preference. Sure! That is why I'm doing a straw poll. If more people seem to like this, I'll commit it. If I get shouted down, I'll keep it as a local hack. M -- o Mark Murray \_ O.\_Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
culverk This seems a lot like personal preferance to me, I for one culverk don't like a lot of tty's, because running getty on a bunch culverk of ttys that I'm not going to use is a waste of ram Seconded. Two ttys are enough for me. Many getty(8) processes usually waste our process table entry :-) Usually small PC keyboards don't have their own F11/F12 key; key combination such as Fn+F1/Fn+F2 is required (read: a little bit hard to push). It would be better to avoid for the default configuration IMHO. -- - Makoto `MAR' Matsushita To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 02:50:20PM +0100, Mark Murray wrote: This seems a lot like personal preferance to me, I for one don't like a lot of tty's, because running getty on a bunch of ttys that I'm not going to use is a waste of ram I usually keep F1-F3 as ttys, and make F4 run kdm. I know I don't really have a say, but I'm sure everyone has his or her own preference. Sure! That is why I'm doing a straw poll. If more people seem to like this, I'll commit it. If I get shouted down, I'll keep it as a local hack. I agree with Ken that this is a personal preference thingie. I have X tied to F8. There is no real reason for this choice other than inertia. I suspect people who use mergemaster won't have a problem with your proposed change; either they'll accept your change during the merge or keep their current setting. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? I do the opposite, and turn off five vty's to get just three [job control works for me]. -- IMHO a personal like/dislike shouldn't be a reason to introduce changes that affect everyday users' experience. Just my $0.02. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
Mark Murray writes: Hi The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? I object. Most of my machines are headless without video cards and use a serial console. With devfs this means that /dev/ttyv[1-N] do not exist and getty bitches like this: Sep 26 11:00:11 monet getty[543]: open /dev/ttyv1: No such file or directory Its an incredible pain in the ass to get spammed by these things on a 9600 baud serial console while you're editing ttys to turn the damned things off. I don't want to have to have 4 more lines of spam to deal with when installing a new server. If you also fix getty to silently ignore the problem and go to sleep forever, then I withdraw my objection. Thanks, Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andrew Gallatin w rites: Mark Murray writes: Hi The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? I object. Most of my machines are headless without video cards and use a serial console. With devfs this means that /dev/ttyv[1-N] do not exist and getty bitches like this: Sep 26 11:00:11 monet getty[543]: open /dev/ttyv1: No such file or directory Its an incredible pain in the ass to get spammed by these things on a 9600 baud serial console while you're editing ttys to turn the damned things off. I don't want to have to have 4 more lines of spam to deal with when installing a new server. If you also fix getty to silently ignore the problem and go to sleep forever, then I withdraw my objection. I think the right thing to do is to make getty check for DEVFS, an if found just got to sleep. The correct way to check for devfs is to try to read the sysctl variable vfs.devfs.generation, if that succeeds, DEVFS is there and the above failure is non-fatal. It can be argued that it is never fatal though. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
RE: ttys patch - any objections?
On 26-Sep-2002 Mark Murray wrote: Hi The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? Yep. I think it's best just to leave things as they are. I pretty much have Alt-F9 hardcoded into my fingers for X. Also, for boxen with serial consoles there's no point in wasting even more space out of the box on extra vty's. Have you tried screen(1) btw? -- John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ Power Users Use the Power to Serve! - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
On 26-Sep-2002 Mark Murray wrote: Are old-style non-F11, F12 keyboards still working with=20 FreeBSD? I don't know, but as those are in the vast minority, its perhaps OK to ask those folks to edit ttys to something more useful to them, rather than the other way round. :-) If you add up all the FreeBSD machines in colo's that use serial consoles I think you will find that _you_ are in the vast minority. Plesae leave the ttys file as it is. -- John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ Power Users Use the Power to Serve! - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
On 26-Sep-2002 Steve Kargl wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 02:50:20PM +0100, Mark Murray wrote: This seems a lot like personal preferance to me, I for one don't like a lot of tty's, because running getty on a bunch of ttys that I'm not going to use is a waste of ram I usually keep F1-F3 as ttys, and make F4 run kdm. I know I don't really have a say, but I'm sure everyone has his or her own preference. Sure! That is why I'm doing a straw poll. If more people seem to like this, I'll commit it. If I get shouted down, I'll keep it as a local hack. I agree with Ken that this is a personal preference thingie. I have X tied to F8. There is no real reason for this choice other than inertia. I suspect people who use mergemaster won't have a problem with your proposed change; either they'll accept your change during the merge or keep their current setting. New installs on machines don't get to choose this change or not. They just install a machine and now Alt-F9 doesn't get to X anymore. -- John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ Power Users Use the Power to Serve! - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
Mark Murray writes: Hi The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? I object. Most of my machines are headless without video cards and use a serial console. With devfs this means that /dev/ttyv[1-N] do not exist and getty bitches like this: Sep 26 11:00:11 monet getty[543]: open /dev/ttyv1: No such file or directory Its an incredible pain in the ass to get spammed by these things on a 9600 baud serial console while you're editing ttys to turn the damned things off. I don't want to have to have 4 more lines of spam to deal with when installing a new server. i have the same behavior, to fix this, i've built a post install script to automate some taks (suchs as sendmail configs, directory modes, standard users, cvsup/make world (-STABLE) and more..) Here's a part of this script: # commenting virtual consols in /etc/ttys cp /etc/ttys /tmp/temp_ttys cat /tmp/temp_ttys | sed 's/ttyv[12345678]/#/' /etc/ttys it's a bit porky, but it works... If you also fix getty to silently ignore the problem and go to sleep forever, then I withdraw my objection. my best solution would be a standard postinstall script that you could store on an accessible host, the, after each install, you download and execute that file.. Thus, you wouldn't need to edit the /etc/ttys :) my 2 cents.. fifi... Thanks, Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message -- Guezou Philippe [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD, The power to serve.[EMAIL PROTECTED] Buying an operating system without source is like buying a self-assembly Space Shuttle with no instructions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 11:08:41AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: On 26-Sep-2002 Steve Kargl wrote: I agree with Ken that this is a personal preference thingie. I have X tied to F8. There is no real reason for this choice other than inertia. I suspect people who use mergemaster won't have a problem with your proposed change; either they'll accept your change during the merge or keep their current setting. New installs on machines don't get to choose this change or not. They just install a machine and now Alt-F9 doesn't get to X anymore. Yes, you're right. I forgot about new installs and the POLA problem. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
On 26-Sep-2002 Andrew Gallatin wrote:
Mark Murray writes:
Hi
The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD
box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12).
Any objections to my committing this?
I object.
Most of my machines are headless without video cards and use a serial
console. With devfs this means that /dev/ttyv[1-N] do not exist and
getty bitches like this:
Sep 26 11:00:11 monet getty[543]: open /dev/ttyv1: No such file or directory
Its an incredible pain in the ass to get spammed by these things on a
9600 baud serial console while you're editing ttys to turn the damned
things off. I don't want to have to have 4 more lines of spam to
deal with when installing a new server.
If you also fix getty to silently ignore the problem and go to sleep
forever, then I withdraw my objection.
Index: init.c
===
RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sbin/init/init.c,v
retrieving revision 1.51
diff -u -r1.51 init.c
--- init.c 3 Aug 2002 16:21:33 - 1.51
+++ init.c 26 Sep 2002 15:56:57 -
@@ -939,7 +939,7 @@
* then don't add the device to the session list.
*/
if ((fd = open(sp-se_device, O_RDONLY | O_NONBLOCK, 0)) 0) {
- if (errno == ENXIO) {
+ if (errno == ENXIO || errno == ENOENT) {
free_session(sp);
return (0);
}
(Maybe we should detect devfs somewhere else and use
|| devfs_present errno == ENOENT) instead.)
--
John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
Power Users Use the Power to Serve! - http://www.FreeBSD.org/
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? PC-98x1 keyboards have only ten function keys. So, it is impossible to use F11 and F12 keys. --- TAKAHASHI Yoshihiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
On 2002-09-26 14:50, Mark Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This seems a lot like personal preferance to me, I for one don't like a lot of tty's, because running getty on a bunch of ttys that I'm not going to use is a waste of ram I usually keep F1-F3 as ttys, and make F4 run kdm. I know I don't really have a say, but I'm sure everyone has his or her own preference. Sure! That is why I'm doing a straw poll. If more people seem to like this, I'll commit it. If I get shouted down, I'll keep it as a local hack. I customarily turn some of them off. All I need is 2-3 vtys, to run a couple of screen(1) sessions. My own local set of changes includes a patch that is almost the opposite of the proposed change (all vtys are turned off, except for ttyv[0123]---the first four). Giorgos. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: ttys patch - any objections?
At 10:22 AM +0100 9/26/02, Mark Murray wrote: Hi The attached patch gets done by me any time I set up a FreeBSD box (I like lots of VTYs and X on ALT-F12). Any objections to my committing this? I think the we will have more users who are hurt (or at least annoyed) by moving X, then we have users who need more tty's in freebsd out-of-the-box. I wouldn't quite say that I object to the change, but I see no point in doing it. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn= [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
