Re: Learning the FreeBSD Kernel
[adding -doc, which is more appropriate for some of the questions] On Saturday, 22 January 2000 at 23:06:41 -0500, Bill Maniatty wrote: > Hello All: > > I have a student this semester in my Operating Systems class who would like > to become a bit more knowledgeable about systems software. I suggested > that he learn a bit about how device drivers are written in FreeBSD > as a minor project. My questions are: > > 1) Does any current documentation of how to write and/or install a >device driver exist in English (note C != English)? Yes, with reservations. >We would love to have a level documentation like the document by >Pragmatic at http://thc.pimmel.com/files/thc/bsdkern.html, we are >looking for a how to guide. Somewhere we have a tutorial. I think it's been retired because it's out of date, but it could be a very rewarding starting point for somebody who wanted to work his way into the material and either update it or bring out a new document based on the structure. This would also give the student good visibility in the (Free)BSD community. > 2) If no existing documentation exists, would it be a good idea to >put together a sort of how to guide for a simple driver (with an >eye to generalization later if warranted)? > > 3) If the answer to 2 is yes, can we get constructive help from the FreeBSD >community? Definitely. -hackers would be the right forum there. I would also personally commit to helping within the constraints of my other work. > Assuming that this constitutes an interesting project, what would be > a good initial approach? I was considering: > 1) Get and build the FreeBSD kernel (4.0?) > 2) Choose a non-essential device with a simple preexisting driver. > 3) Remove all trace of the driver from the kernel source. > 4) Reapply the changes used to install the driver (perhaps one step at a time). >We could suggest some simple sanity checks to support stepwise refinement. (1) and (2) are a good start. You don't need to remove the old driver; it would in fact make it easier for debugging purposes if it remained. Instead, choose another major number and name, and write a new driver. This procedure is definitely *not* documented, but it's the way we introduce new drivers, and I think a couple of other people who have done it would be pleased to help. A possibly better alternative is to find a device which isn't currently supported by FreeBSD and write a driver for it. This would have the advantage that the work would also be a contribution to FreeBSD. The question that I can't answer here is: what would be an appropriate device? > If this is a good idea, I would like the following help from the FreeBSD > community: > 1) Identify a simple driver (perhaps something like a joystick >driver?) I don't know if anybody uses it any more. > 2) Identify all source code associated with the driver (including configuration >files, makefiles etc...). Some files may have only one or two lines >devoted to the driver, so we will need to know how to recognize such lines >and would appreciate pointers to such lines. That should be relatively straightforward after examination of the old tutorial, the sources and hier(7). If not, ask away. Important directories are: /sys symlink to /usr/src/sys; I'll use it below /sys/config generic configuration files /sys/i386/config configuration files for i386 /sys/dev sources for generic device drivers /sys/isa sources for generic ISA device drivers /sys/i386/isa sources for i386-only ISA device drivers Greg -- Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Learning the FreeBSD Kernel
Hello All: I have a student this semester in my Operating Systems class who would like to become a bit more knowledgeable about systems software. I suggested that he learn a bit about how device drivers are written in FreeBSD as a minor project. My questions are: 1) Does any current documentation of how to write and/or install a device driver exist in English (note C != English)? We would love to have a level documentation like the document by Pragmatic at http://thc.pimmel.com/files/thc/bsdkern.html, we are looking for a how to guide. 2) If no existing documentation exists, would it be a good idea to put together a sort of how to guide for a simple driver (with an eye to generalization later if warranted)? 3) If the answer to 2 is yes, can we get constructive help from the FreeBSD community? Assuming that this constitutes an interesting project, what would be a good initial approach? I was considering: 1) Get and build the FreeBSD kernel (4.0?) 2) Choose a non-essential device with a simple preexisting driver. 3) Remove all trace of the driver from the kernel source. 4) Reapply the changes used to install the driver (perhaps one step at a time). We could suggest some simple sanity checks to support stepwise refinement. If this is a good idea, I would like the following help from the FreeBSD community: 1) Identify a simple driver (perhaps something like a joystick driver?) 2) Identify all source code associated with the driver (including configuration files, makefiles etc...). Some files may have only one or two lines devoted to the driver, so we will need to know how to recognize such lines and would appreciate pointers to such lines. Regards: Bill Maniatty |--| |Dr. William (Bill) A. Maniatty| |Assistant Professor | |Dept. of Computer Science | |University At Albany | |Albany, NY 1 | |--| |Phone: (518) 442-4281| |e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| |URL:http://www.cs.albany.edu/~maniatty| |--| To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: LD_PRELOAD
John Polstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Tony Finch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>John Polstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> The names "_init" and "_fini" are "reserved for the implementation" >>> in ANSI/ISO-speak. You shouldn't use them. >> >> I don't have any choice on Solaris, unfortunately (and my code has to >> be portable between FreeBSD and Solaris). I suppose in that case >> Solaris is the implementation and they have reserved it for my use. I >> gather from the linker errors that FreeBSD has reserved the names for >> a different use? > >The machinery that supports C++ constructors uses them. > >> >Or, write it in C++ and use a global constructor. >> >> No. Never. No way. NO. :-) > >The advantage of using C++ for this is that you're using a portable >mechanism instead of a gcc extension. I'm not really worried about portability to different compilers. OS portability is important, though. I settled on using the following declaration. This works on Solaris, FreeBSD, and Linux. (This implies that the Solaris rtld documentation isn't quite complete regarding its support for C++ mechanisms.) static void startup(void) __attribute__ ((constructor)); >>> You're probably the first person on earth to >>> have more than one library in LD_PRELOAD. :-) I'm using an LD_PRELOAD hack to add functionality to a commercial application, and it has to co-exist with another vendor's commercial LD_PRELOAD hack for the same application. I've managed to get my test to work to my satisfaction on FreeBSD and Linux but it makes the Solaris 2.6 ld.so.1 crash which is a shame since Solaris is my principal OS for this project... The stuff I have done so far is available from http://www.inch.demon.co.uk/filemodshim.tar.gz Run `make test` for a bit of fun. Some Makefile frobbing may be required. Tony. -- I'm the dot in dot at To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: disappearing mount points after install
OK, I'm glad about fstab and my mount points, but I have already tried using 'a' and then i hit 's' to set bootable before I 'w' to write. I've actually tried this more times than i can count! When I do re-enter the fdisk using install disks though, the slice is no longer marked 'A' for active. Perhaps this gives extra insight? Any other ideas? The offer for dinner to whoever solves this problem stands... when I'm in town, of course! ;-) Thanks in advance, as always. Marwan On Sat, 22 Jan 2000, Mike Smith wrote: > > I am a seasoned UNIX user but have been using freebsd for only about 6 > > months. I have posted this problem to freebsd-questions with no response > > so, figuring it must be a bug in the install program i'm going to try > > here. Oh, I would like to have traced the code to try to find the bug (if > > one exists) but being a senior year undergrad with a full course load and > > thesis, I have been left with little time... please forgive me. > > > > My problem is this. I am trying to install 3.3-R on an IBM Thinkpad 365XD > > (although I have received mail from a man in France who is having the same > > problem on a desktop). The installation runs completely smoothly but when > > I finish and reboot the machine reports no resident O.S. > > This will be due to you not having an active partition marked in the MBR, > or not having a valid bootblock. Boot sysinstall, go to the configure > menu, select the slice table/fdisk editor, select your slice and hit 'a'. > Then hit 'w' and write the data out; when prompted (both times) select > the 'standard MBR' option (remember that you have to actually select the > option before hitting Enter). > > > After trying many different things (including messing with the MBR, double > > and triple checking disk geometry, and using a Fixit disk to try to > > diagnose the problem), I booted from the install floppy to the main > > install menu. Rather than re-install all over again for the nth time I > > just entered the label editor. The partitions were still there but the > > mount points were lost. What appeared was > > this: > > > > 40M // supposed to be root > > swap 84M // swap is obviously OK > > 651M// supposed to be /usr > > > > This is clearly not what I designated > > It is. The label editor only tells you what's in the label; the > mountpoints are only stored in the fstab, which is not visible to the > label editor at this time. What you're seeing here is normal and > indicates that both the MBR and the disklabel were written to your disk > correctly. It's entirely unrelated to your current problem. > -- > \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith > \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] > \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: disappearing mount points after install
> I am a seasoned UNIX user but have been using freebsd for only about 6 > months. I have posted this problem to freebsd-questions with no response > so, figuring it must be a bug in the install program i'm going to try > here. Oh, I would like to have traced the code to try to find the bug (if > one exists) but being a senior year undergrad with a full course load and > thesis, I have been left with little time... please forgive me. > > My problem is this. I am trying to install 3.3-R on an IBM Thinkpad 365XD > (although I have received mail from a man in France who is having the same > problem on a desktop). The installation runs completely smoothly but when > I finish and reboot the machine reports no resident O.S. This will be due to you not having an active partition marked in the MBR, or not having a valid bootblock. Boot sysinstall, go to the configure menu, select the slice table/fdisk editor, select your slice and hit 'a'. Then hit 'w' and write the data out; when prompted (both times) select the 'standard MBR' option (remember that you have to actually select the option before hitting Enter). > After trying many different things (including messing with the MBR, double > and triple checking disk geometry, and using a Fixit disk to try to > diagnose the problem), I booted from the install floppy to the main > install menu. Rather than re-install all over again for the nth time I > just entered the label editor. The partitions were still there but the > mount points were lost. What appeared was > this: > > 40M // supposed to be root > swap 84M // swap is obviously OK > 651M// supposed to be /usr > > This is clearly not what I designated It is. The label editor only tells you what's in the label; the mountpoints are only stored in the fstab, which is not visible to the label editor at this time. What you're seeing here is normal and indicates that both the MBR and the disklabel were written to your disk correctly. It's entirely unrelated to your current problem. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: disappearing mount points after install
(The following is forwarded from freebsd-mobile) FreeBSD loader does not start up, nor does the kernel (obviously). The error message I get back is literally translated as "No O.S." As for a disk parameter translation I cannot say for sure because IBM (as wretched as they can be) does not allow users into the BIOS... at least not on this model. What I can tell you is that while installing (before the main menu) when my system is being scanned for devices, my hard drive geomtry shows up as follows: C/H/S: 1578/16/63 However, the slice and label editors, linux (when i succeeded in installing it), and all tests i perform in DOS all report the following: C/H/S: 789/32/63 I have tried both and neither work. Further, I just tried writing label info from sysinstall running of the fixit disk (as recommended), and that doesn't work either. I think I'll have to offer to buy dinner for whoever is able to solve this one! :-) Marwan On Sat, 22 Jan 2000, Boris Karnaukh wrote: > Marwan Fayed wrote: > > > > My problem is this. I am trying to install 3.3-R on an IBM Thinkpad 365XD > > (although I have received mail from a man in France who is having the same > > problem on a desktop). The installation runs completely smoothly but when > > I finish and reboot the machine reports no resident O.S. > > Did FreeBSD loader and/or kernel start up? > > Have you tested your computer for some kind of disk parameters > translation in BIOS setup? > > I have had similar experience with Toshiba Satellite 2500CDS. > > > > After trying many different things (including messing with the MBR, double > > and triple checking disk geometry, and using a Fixit disk to try to > > diagnose the problem), I booted from the install floppy to the main > > install menu. Rather than re-install all over again for the nth time I > > just entered the label editor. The partitions were still there but the > > mount points were lost. What appeared was > > this: > > > > 40M // supposed to be root > > swap 84M // swap is obviously OK > > 651M// supposed to be /usr > > > > This is clearly not what I designated so I tried relabelling the mount > > points, writing the information using 'w' and exiting install only to have > > the BIOS report no O.S. yet again! > > > > According to my experience, you should run /stand/sysinstall again after > chosing "Fixit" option to make "w" option immediately work. > > You'll possibly have to create additional devices /dev/wd0? using > MAKEDEV script from "Fixit" disk. > > -- > > Boris Karnaukh(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Better fixit (was: Why was rsh removed from the fixit floppy?)
According to ROGIER MULHUIJZEN: > For those of you not familiar with netcat, it is a utillity written by > l0pht (the well known gang of hackers). What it basically does is pipe I just want to correct one misunderstanding. 'The Hobbit' is the author of netcat, not l0pht. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #77: Thu Dec 30 12:49:51 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: disappearing mount points after install
I am writing this after reading two responses, both of which I am grateful for. I should have included this info in the original posting but better late than never, I guess. There have been two suggestions both very related, both of which I have already considered. I thought perhaps my BIOS required a DOS partition so I installed RedHat 6.1 to be sure. Guess what? It worked! Nevertheless, I installed a 2Meg DOS partition and set it to active before re-isntalling 3.3-R. OH, and yes, I also set my freeBSD partition to active as well... every time! But even this did not work. Does this mean I have everyone stumped? ;-) Marwan On Sat, 22 Jan 2000, Thierry Herbelot wrote: > Hello > > [-mobile trimmed] > > Marwan Fayed wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I am a seasoned UNIX user but have been using freebsd for only about 6 > > months. I have posted this problem to freebsd-questions with no response > > so, figuring it must be a bug in the install program i'm going to try > > here. Oh, I would like to have traced the code to try to find the bug (if > > one exists) but being a senior year undergrad with a full course load and > > thesis, I have been left with little time... please forgive me. > > > > My problem is this. I am trying to install 3.3-R on an IBM Thinkpad 365XD > > (although I have received mail from a man in France who is having the same > > problem on a desktop). The installation runs completely smoothly but when > > I finish and reboot the machine reports no resident O.S. > > This may be due to a faulty BIOS : some BIOSes do not like at all not > having a DOS partition at the beginning of the disk (I have some HP PCs > with just 20 Megs of FAT at the start of the disk to keep them booting - > from , which is FreeBSD) > > > > > After trying many different things (including messing with the MBR, double > > and triple checking disk geometry, and using a Fixit disk to try to > > diagnose the problem), I booted from the install floppy to the main > > install menu. Rather than re-install all over again for the nth time I > > just entered the label editor. The partitions were still there but the > > mount points were lost. What appeared was > > this: > > > > 40M // supposed to be root > > swap 84M // swap is obviously OK > > 651M// supposed to be /usr > > The mount points for each partition are recorded in /etc/fstab : what > you are seeing is completely normal, as sysinstall has not read the > fstab file from the root partition of your disk. > > > > > This is clearly not what I designated so I tried relabelling the mount > > points, writing the information using 'w' and exiting install only to have > > the BIOS report no O.S. yet again! > > Try and leave a small DOS partition at the beginning of your disk, as > said above. > > > > > The machine is a P100,40M ram,810HD, standard PCI (as far as I have been > > able to tell/test). Has anyone encountered this or know the problem? > > > > Thanks a TON! > > > > Marwan :-) > > TfH > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: disappearing mount points after install
Hello [-mobile trimmed] Marwan Fayed wrote: > > Hello, > > I am a seasoned UNIX user but have been using freebsd for only about 6 > months. I have posted this problem to freebsd-questions with no response > so, figuring it must be a bug in the install program i'm going to try > here. Oh, I would like to have traced the code to try to find the bug (if > one exists) but being a senior year undergrad with a full course load and > thesis, I have been left with little time... please forgive me. > > My problem is this. I am trying to install 3.3-R on an IBM Thinkpad 365XD > (although I have received mail from a man in France who is having the same > problem on a desktop). The installation runs completely smoothly but when > I finish and reboot the machine reports no resident O.S. This may be due to a faulty BIOS : some BIOSes do not like at all not having a DOS partition at the beginning of the disk (I have some HP PCs with just 20 Megs of FAT at the start of the disk to keep them booting - from , which is FreeBSD) > > After trying many different things (including messing with the MBR, double > and triple checking disk geometry, and using a Fixit disk to try to > diagnose the problem), I booted from the install floppy to the main > install menu. Rather than re-install all over again for the nth time I > just entered the label editor. The partitions were still there but the > mount points were lost. What appeared was > this: > > 40M // supposed to be root > swap 84M // swap is obviously OK > 651M// supposed to be /usr The mount points for each partition are recorded in /etc/fstab : what you are seeing is completely normal, as sysinstall has not read the fstab file from the root partition of your disk. > > This is clearly not what I designated so I tried relabelling the mount > points, writing the information using 'w' and exiting install only to have > the BIOS report no O.S. yet again! Try and leave a small DOS partition at the beginning of your disk, as said above. > > The machine is a P100,40M ram,810HD, standard PCI (as far as I have been > able to tell/test). Has anyone encountered this or know the problem? > > Thanks a TON! > > Marwan :-) TfH > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: LD_PRELOAD
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tony Finch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John Polstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >The right way to do it on FreeBSD is like this: > >gcc -fpic -c *.c > >gcc -shared -o libshim.so *.o > > That works fine, thanks! Any idea why my clumsy success worked and why > my clumsy failures didn't? Nah, I didn't pay that much attention to what you did. I just noticed that it wasn't right. :-) The "gcc -fpic" makes the object code position-independent. I am not sure, but probably you would also benefit (performance-wise) by using that on Solaris. The "gcc -shared" turns it into a shared library instead of a normal object file. In the process it also links in some extra little .o files which are necessary to hold it all together. You can use "gcc -v" to get the gory details. > >The names "_init" and "_fini" are "reserved for the implementation" > >in ANSI/ISO-speak. You shouldn't use them. > > I don't have any choice on Solaris, unfortunately (and my code has to > be portable between FreeBSD and Solaris). I suppose in that case > Solaris is the implementation and they have reserved it for my use. I > gather from the linker errors that FreeBSD has reserved the names for > a different use? The machinery that supports C++ constructors uses them. > >Or, write it in C++ and use a global constructor. > > No. Never. No way. NO. :-) I didn't mean write everything in C++ -- just the initialization hook. It's not that bad. There's an example in "src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_autoinit.cc". The advantage of using C++ for this is that you're using a portable mechanism instead of a gcc extension. > >> I also note a user-interface incompatibility between FreeBSD's > >> implementation of LD_PRELOAD and Solaris's: on Solaris the filenames > >> listed in LD_PRELOAD are space-separated, but on FreeBSD they are > >> colon or semicolon separated. > > > >That could be a bug. You're probably the first person on earth to > >have more than one library in LD_PRELOAD. :-) What does Linux do? > > According to the documentation I looked at it uses arbitrary > whitespace as the separator. I haven't looked at the code to check. I took a look. They accept white space or colons. I'll change ours to be similarly tolerant. The semicolons are a vestige from SVR4.0, and should probably be ditched. John -- John Polstra [EMAIL PROTECTED] John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chögyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
disappearing mount points after install
Hello, I am a seasoned UNIX user but have been using freebsd for only about 6 months. I have posted this problem to freebsd-questions with no response so, figuring it must be a bug in the install program i'm going to try here. Oh, I would like to have traced the code to try to find the bug (if one exists) but being a senior year undergrad with a full course load and thesis, I have been left with little time... please forgive me. My problem is this. I am trying to install 3.3-R on an IBM Thinkpad 365XD (although I have received mail from a man in France who is having the same problem on a desktop). The installation runs completely smoothly but when I finish and reboot the machine reports no resident O.S. After trying many different things (including messing with the MBR, double and triple checking disk geometry, and using a Fixit disk to try to diagnose the problem), I booted from the install floppy to the main install menu. Rather than re-install all over again for the nth time I just entered the label editor. The partitions were still there but the mount points were lost. What appeared was this: 40M // supposed to be root swap 84M // swap is obviously OK 651M// supposed to be /usr This is clearly not what I designated so I tried relabelling the mount points, writing the information using 'w' and exiting install only to have the BIOS report no O.S. yet again! The machine is a P100,40M ram,810HD, standard PCI (as far as I have been able to tell/test). Has anyone encountered this or know the problem? Thanks a TON! Marwan :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: sysinstall
Checkout: http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.4R/errata.html On Sat, 22 Jan 2000, Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios wrote: > I am tryning to install Fbsd 3.4, but, when i choose (in sysinstall) to > perform a custom installation eith selected parts of the SO to install, > sysinstall get a killed, (signal 11) and a core is generated. > Have anyone here already faced such a problem? How to fix it? > > Thanks a lot for your time and cooperation. > Should i take a closer look at the core file generated ? > > Thanks a lot for your time and cooperation. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
sysinstall
I am tryning to install Fbsd 3.4, but, when i choose (in sysinstall) to perform a custom installation eith selected parts of the SO to install, sysinstall get a killed, (signal 11) and a core is generated. Have anyone here already faced such a problem? How to fix it? Thanks a lot for your time and cooperation. Should i take a closer look at the core file generated ? Thanks a lot for your time and cooperation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Great FICL Hacks
On Sat, 22 Jan 2000, Michael Kennett wrote: > I've been playing around with the boot loader(8), which seems to be a > very powerful piece of software. However I'm really only using the 'load', > 'unload', and 'boot' functions. I'd be interested in hearing about more > powerful uses of this software. > > Are there any great hacks of FICL that people have done? /usr/share/examples/bootforth. As well as, of course, /boot/*.4th . It seems that currently Daniel Sobral is the best source to answer more advanced questions... Andrzej Bialecki // <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // --- // -- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Great FICL Hacks
I've been playing around with the boot loader(8), which seems to be a very powerful piece of software. However I'm really only using the 'load', 'unload', and 'boot' functions. I'd be interested in hearing about more powerful uses of this software. Are there any great hacks of FICL that people have done? Regards, Mike Kennett To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
