Re: microuptime() and nanouptime() library?
In message 000701c24593$ceb71810$[EMAIL PROTECTED], Sean Hamilton write s: Greetings, I just tried to use nanouptime, then microuptime, but was disappointed to find that a quick grep of /usr/lib revealed no libraries containing these symbols. Are they only available to the kernel. If so, how can I get a reasonable timer figure from user space? There is no problem in making them available to userland, only the question of which .h file to put them in and how to avoid breaking some standard or other doing so. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying
The End of FreeBSD [ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD] When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project. Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it. FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile. It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics. So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be doing something about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project. Discussion I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly. From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished. There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want. Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress. Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers? Shouts To the Slashdot BSD is dying crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad. To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards. To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within. To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a
Re: Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying
Wow. I guess I'll address the most important point that hit home for me from that post... Examining the headers, it looks like Hotmail has a full class B (64.4/16); that's surprising. Why the heck do they have a full class B?!? If you are using load balancers for distribution, then you basically need only enough IP addresses to provide publically accessible VIPs to the various public services you export as seperate entities. There's no *way* they have 65,534 (subtracting out the unusable ones) of those! Seems to me, you could do all of Hotmail with well under a class C, if that. You could *probably* do it with a /28, which is the smallest BGP routable chunk UUNET supports. Does this seem odd to anyone else? Is Microsoft just an address space pig, or what? Do they consider the IPv4 address space as part of the company's valuation when making a purchase decision, or is this some legacy thing with Hotmail that no one at InterNIC bothered to correct, and they are just address rich by chance (this seems most likely, to me)? Inquiring minds want to know. Maybe it's just so that if a host gets RBL'ed or otherwise blacklisted, they can switch IPs, and won't have an interruption of email service to their customers? If that's the case, that implies the SPAM turnover on those things is on the other of one 65536th of the time it takes to get off a blacklist. That would imply they are sending an *incredible* amount of SPAM (obviously, that assumes a single VIP, which is really unlikely, but it's still within an order of magnitude, asuming a LocalDirector or other load balancer. Anyway, that's what I got from the post... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
The #bsdcode hall of shame
The #bsdcode hall of shame, starring: Paul 'moron' Saab Bill 'flamage' Fumerola Juli 'lezbo' Mallet Alfred 'drunktard' Perlstein ___ | TERRENCE LAMBERT| --- @EvilJuli LAMENESS= Terry * angryskul notes that he would like to put his penis inside Terry's ass. @phk we should give terry a mail-quota of two emails per patch he submits. @jkh there are worse behaviors than Terry's doing a fine job of eroding morale. :) @baka^ni Oh, fuck Terry. @EvilJuli terry Tunefs can do it. @mux Screw that Terry asshole! @ps terry sucks @ps T TERRY.. PLZ READ CODE BEFORE TYPING EMAIL @skul WE'LL FIX TERRY @skul the annoying part about terry is that he never qualifies anything with i think @skul terry @skul terry @skul terry @skul terry @skul when terry is wrong he just migrates to another thread cmc skul: is there any proof that Terry even uses FreeBSD now? @skul i need to thrash terry with it * skul crushes terry * skul crushes terry * jmallett sits in the box and talks to dillon and terry about the wonders of the world @mux terry! @jmallett perry and terry for core! @mux terry and perry the blues brothers @hideaway Terry screw that, I'll tell you how it's done. [but i won't do it!] @jmallett Terry But I did it at Netware, honest! @hideaway Terry But I implemented it. @BigKnife Fuck terry @green_ Screw terry @BigKnife someone please fuck terry in the ass @arr By the amount of FreeBSD list mail terry sends, one would think he's one of the most active developers @nik__ Heh. Terry, Charles, Theo, and JKH, all on the same core team. * dwhite- bends pattom over and inserts terry pattom oddly, I offered to paypal terry some money in gratitude for all his help and he just ignored me - but continued to dispense free ( advice + (we should write a tuning manual but wait no we shouldnt because it is a 2000 hour job and outdated very month) @nik__ pattom: Problem with Terry's advice is that (in my experience) 90% of it is bullshit. But if you don't know what he's talking about it can be very tricky to work out which 90%. @softweyr bsdimp: and PHK won't utter/type Terry's name. @softweyr ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] cd /home; echo 'Terry * 9'*/.vote @green_ so we have phk, theo and terry on mock-core @green_ go terry! @ps we need to kick terry off the lists. @ps TERRY GO AWAY @phk EvilPete: listen to ps. Kicking terry out for trolling and wasting time while never contributing would be a good first move. @ps tell terry to go the fuck away.. his opinions are not welcome @cmc Watch out for his Flamerola alter-ego. Leave Terry alone! :) @bsdimp_ WE can barely ban the clueless, what about someone like terry. @phk bsdimp_: of banning terry ? I think just the act of officially banning him plus an entry in the FAQ would do a lot. vd- whois Terry :) ? vd- cmc: looks like Terry - warrior :) @ps terry needs to go away @Debolaz vd-: Terry is this channels favourite way of getting out steam. @EvilPete phk: well, there are more offenders than terry... Maybe a good start would be for each post of crap that you make, you get a 24 hour ban. hearnia ps: no, freebsd's committers need to learn how to deal with people like terry vd- you don't like terry vd- but terry commiter@ hearnia evilpete: when someone bumps up against terry, it's usually a committer hearnia ps: but terry doesn't just say crap @ps because TERRY IS WRONG @ps 99% of the time, terry is wrong @winter but having a FAQ entry about Terry would help. @Debolaz ps: I recall a statement from this channel that Terry was only wrong 90% of the time, but the problem was figuring out what that 90% was. * EvilPete . o O (Terry: you may post only 5 times a day to the lists. Make them count. Think before you post. Research and verify what you are claiming. etc) @ps Terry Jar Jar Lambert @winter submit all of terry's messages to Razor. @winter eventually we'll train Razor to reject Terry's messages. * EvilPete . o (Terry: pick somebody [other than julian] to review every one of your postings before sending it] vd- interesting man Terry ... vd- few minutes ago I tried to read some threads with Terry's replies @EvilPete WARNING: you have recieved a terry lambert posting! see FAQ on trolls! @phk EvilPete: better yet: Delay all terrys emails to the list for 12 hours. * phk points at Terry DevRandom Naah. Terry is a n easy target. @adrian damn, terry posts a lot to the various lists @Holocaine adrian: Terry appears to feel the need to respond to every single thing that could possibly be interpreted as a question about FreeBSD architecture, even when he has no idea what that actually is. @Holocaine adrian: Terry and Dennis-from-ETinc being prime candidates. @adrian terry keeps popping up with .. everything else. @juli I'm being a Terry that's willing to write code! @adrian fuck terry, he posts a lot. @juli I just like playing the part of Terry. @EvilPete juli: we have more than enough
It's dead Jim
Mad propz to Hiten 'imbecile' Pandya, btw... It is official -- Netcraft is now confirming: *BSD is dying One more crippling bombshell crushed the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test. You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying. Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers. OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts. Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house. All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead. Fact: *BSD is dying _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Cant get PCCARD stuff working
Reposted to mobile and hackers as no answer on questions
The only extra item I have gleaned from archives is some comment
from Warner (?) about s memory mapping issue, which I have not
found any follow up on...
original message follows 8
I am trying to get a Card Master PCI-IF{T/I) card working so that I can
create miniBSD Cf images for some new firewall boxes. At least that is the idea..
However I dont seem to be able to ge the Flash recognised..
I am not sure even if the PCMCIA PCI interface is working properly..
ie I have not been here before.
I have seen stuff in the archives with the same TI1420 chip being
recognised on the PCI buss, so Im hopeful there. But I am currently stuck
and need help.
The Box is an IBM xSeries 300 server and runs all the rest of FreeBSD
Aok.
Build world done this morning (in 40 minutes), from CVSup sources bout 24 hours old
If the PCCARD gurus need any more data just let me know..
and H E L P please
Murray Taylor
Special Projects Engineer
Bytecraft Systems
-
insert Panasonic CF carrier with Sandisk 32M CF module
spyder# pccardc dumpcis
2 slots found
spyder# pccardc rdreg
Registers for slot 0
00: 84 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 c0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
Registers for slot 1
00: 84 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 c0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
spyder# pccardc rdmap
Mem 0: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 1: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 2: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 3: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 4: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
I/O 0: flags 0x000 port 0x 0 size 0 bytes
I/O 1: flags 0x000 port 0x 0 size 0 bytes
Mem 0: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 1: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 2: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 3: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 4: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
I/O 0: flags 0x000 port 0x 0 size 0 bytes
I/O 1: flags 0x000 port 0x 0 size 0 bytes
spyder# pccardc power 0 1
spyder# pccardc power 1 1
(extract from /var/log/messages)
Aug 16 08:34:00 spyder /kernel: pccard: card inserted, slot 0
Aug 16 08:34:05 spyder pccardd[48]: No card in database for (null)((null))
Aug 16 08:51:10 spyder /kernel: pccard: card inserted, slot 1
Aug 16 08:51:16 spyder pccardd[48]: No card in database for (null)((null))
spyder# pccardc dumpcis
Read return -1 bytes (expected 2)
pccardc: CIS code read: Cannot allocate memory
Read return -1 bytes (expected 10)
Configuration data for card in slot 0
Read return -1 bytes (expected 2)
pccardc: CIS code read: Cannot allocate memory
Read return -1 bytes (expected 10)
Configuration data for card in slot 1
2 slots found
spyder# pccardc rdreg
Registers for slot 0
00: 84 00 00 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 c0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
Registers for slot 1
00: 84 00 00 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 c0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
spyder# pccardc rdmap
Mem 0: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 1: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 2: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 3: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 4: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
I/O 0: flags 0x000 port 0x 0 size 0 bytes
I/O 1: flags 0x000 port 0x 0 size 0 bytes
Mem 0: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 1: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 2: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 3: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
Mem 4: flags 0x000 host 0x0 card size 0 bytes
I/O 0: flags 0x000 port 0x 0 size 0 bytes
I/O 1: flags 0x000 port 0x 0 size 0 bytes
spyder# more /etc/rc.conf
# -- sysinstall generated deltas -- # Thu May 16 08:01:23 2002
# Created: Thu May 16 08:01:23 2002
# Enable network daemons for user convenience.
# Please make all changes to this file, not to /etc/defaults/rc.conf.
# This file now contains just the overrides from /etc/defaults/rc.conf.
hostname=spyder.bytecraft.au.com
ifconfig_fxp0=inet 10.0.0.2/20
##ifconfig_fxp1=inet 192.168.4.1 netmask 255.255.255.252
defaultrouter=10.0.0.1
kern_securelevel_enable=NO
linux_enable=YES
moused_enable=NO
moused_type=NO
nfs_reserved_port_only=YES
saver=logo
sendmail_enable=YES
sshd_enable=YES
usbd_enable=YES
pccard_enable=YES
spyder# more /etc/pccard.conf
debuglevel 4
spyder# uname -a
Re: IPDIVERT, having issues? [Moved to -questions]
On Sun, 2002-08-18 at 06:20, Devon Stark wrote: Greetings! I am having a problem trying to get IPDIVERT to take.. I have setup my kernel conf to include the following lines options IPFIREWALL options IPDIVERT I have the nic configured and running just fine, for both local LAN and for internet (both of my NICs are plugged into the same switch for now) My /etc/rc.conf has gateway_enable=YES firewall_enable=YES natd_enable=YES Every time I boot the server I get a message saying that IP Packet filtering is enabled, along with any other configuration I specified (logging and such), but divert is always set to disabled!? I have gone to the point of building the kernel with '-DIPDIVERT' and still getting the same results... The main effect of this problem is of course that I get an error when I try to apply the following rule to my firewall 'ipfw add divert natd all from any to any via fxp0' The error is... ip_fw_ctl: invalid command ipfw: getsockopt(IP_FW_ADD): Invalid argument I have checked and natd is in the services list and seems to be configured properly. I have been searching for the answer for about 3 days now with little luck finding the answer. The only thing I can think of is that there is some other kernel option that I am enabling that is causing this problem, or perhaps that there is something that I am missing? I have included my config files here for review... Kernel config file (I striped out all of the comments for the sake of this post) machine i386 cpu I686_CPU ident THE-SERVER maxusers256 options MATH_EMULATE options INET options FFS options FFS_ROOT options SOFTUPDATES options UFS_DIRHASH options MFS options MD_ROOT options NFS options NFS_ROOT options MSDOSFS options CD9660 options CD9660_ROOT options PROCFS options COMPAT_43 options SCSI_DELAY=1000 options UCONSOLE options USERCONFIG options VISUAL_USERCONFIG options KTRACE options SYSVSHM options SYSVMSG options SYSVSEM options P1003_1B options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING options ICMP_BANDLIM options KBD_INSTALL_CDEV options IPFIREWALL options IPDIVERT options IPFIREWALL_FORWARD options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=50 options BRIDGE options IPSTEALTH options TCP_DROP_SYNFIN options SMP options APIC_IO device isa device eisa device pci device fdc0at isa? port IO_FD1 irq 6 drq 2 device fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 device ata0at isa? port IO_WD1 irq 14 device ata1at isa? port IO_WD2 irq 15 device ata device atadisk device atapicd device atapifd options ATA_STATIC_ID device ahb device ahc device amd device isp device ncr device sym options SYM_SETUP_LP_PROBE_MAP=0x40 device adv0at isa? device adw device bt0 at isa? device aha0at isa? device aic0at isa? device scbus device da device sa device cd device pass device asr device atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 flags 0x1 device psm0at atkbdc? irq 12 device vga0at isa? pseudo-device splash device sc0 at isa? flags 0x100 device npx0at nexus? port IO_NPX irq 13 device apm0at nexus? disable flags 0x20 device sio0at isa? port IO_COM1 flags 0x10 irq 4 device sio1at isa? port IO_COM2 irq 3 device ppc0at isa? irq 7 device ppbus device lpt device miibus device fxp pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device pty pseudo-device md pseudo-device bpf device
RE: It's dead Jim
Title: RE: It's dead Jim Yes, but what about Apple? Surely OSX sales are increasing BSD installation counts? -SU -Original Message- From: Alfred Pythonstein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 10:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: It's dead Jim Mad propz to Hiten 'imbecile' Pandya, btw... It is official -- Netcraft is now confirming: *BSD is dying One more crippling bombshell crushed the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test. You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying. Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers. OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts. Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house. All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead. Fact: *BSD is dying _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: It's dead Jim
Scott Ullrich wrote: Yes, but what about Apple? Surely OSX sales are increasing BSD installation counts? Netcraft hasn't detected sites I use since they upgraded to 4.5. They all show up as unknown. -SU -Original Message- From: Alfred Pythonstein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 10:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: It's dead Jim Mad propz to Hiten 'imbecile' Pandya, btw... It is official -- Netcraft is now confirming: *BSD is dying One more crippling bombshell crushed the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test. You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying. Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers. OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts. Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house. All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead. Fact: *BSD is dying _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying
Remember that Hotmail is a part of MSN, and they would have a need for that many IP addresses, what with their Internet content service. Andy At 03:48 08/18/2002, Terry Lambert wrote: Wow. I guess I'll address the most important point that hit home for me from that post... Examining the headers, it looks like Hotmail has a full class B (64.4/16); that's surprising. Why the heck do they have a full class B?!? If you are using load balancers for distribution, then you basically need only enough IP addresses to provide publically accessible VIPs to the various public services you export as seperate entities. There's no *way* they have 65,534 (subtracting out the unusable ones) of those! Seems to me, you could do all of Hotmail with well under a class C, if that. You could *probably* do it with a /28, which is the smallest BGP routable chunk UUNET supports. Does this seem odd to anyone else? Is Microsoft just an address space pig, or what? Do they consider the IPv4 address space as part of the company's valuation when making a purchase decision, or is this some legacy thing with Hotmail that no one at InterNIC bothered to correct, and they are just address rich by chance (this seems most likely, to me)? Inquiring minds want to know. Maybe it's just so that if a host gets RBL'ed or otherwise blacklisted, they can switch IPs, and won't have an interruption of email service to their customers? If that's the case, that implies the SPAM turnover on those things is on the other of one 65536th of the time it takes to get off a blacklist. That would imply they are sending an *incredible* amount of SPAM (obviously, that assumes a single VIP, which is really unlikely, but it's still within an order of magnitude, asuming a LocalDirector or other load balancer. Anyway, that's what I got from the post... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-chat in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Hotmail (was Re: Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying)
Andy wrote: Remember that Hotmail is a part of MSN, and they would have a need for that many IP addresses, what with their Internet content service. Oh, I could definitely see Microsoft needing a lot of VIPs; they would need one per unique, deployed services, and potentially one per branding partner (depends on whether they expect a modern browser -- Host: being set correctly for virtual hosting). I'm pretty sure, that they have other address blocks, as well. 8-). For service availability, though, they would only really need a small number of VIPs per colocation facility, for a large and distributed service (basically, one per redundant virtual circuit path for initial distribution). So if they were widely deployed, you would expect maybe 8 VIPs per colocation facility... but you would not expect them to be in a large, contiguous netblock: you'd expect them to be 8 here, and 8 there, etc., based on geographic location. It's actually my understanding (I'm willing to be corrected here) that HotMail is pretty centrally served, because of the protocols involved, and because of their architecture. Anyway, I guess if I could get a full class B, I'd have one, and I wouldn't be questioning *why* someone had been willing to give it to me. 8-) 8-). It just seemed mighty strange. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: It's dead Jim
Yo! the reason you guy are the only ones answering this is because everyone else recognised it as a troll from some drunk.. give it a miss! On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Kent Stewart wrote: Scott Ullrich wrote: To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying
In a message written on Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 02:48:55AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: Examining the headers, it looks like Hotmail has a full class B (64.4/16); that's surprising. Why the heck do they have a full They seem to have 64.4/18. 64/8 and 65/8 are being chopped up for smaller allocations by the registries. class B?!? If you are using load balancers for distribution, then you basically need only enough IP addresses to provide publically accessible VIPs to the various public services you export as seperate entities. There's no *way* they have 65,534 (subtracting out the unusable ones) of those! No one providing network services should ever be required to use any technology other than plain IP to provide it. That includes NAT and load balancers. If they want to have 10,000 machines (which, by the way, I believe they have well over from some press stuff on them) exposed to the Internet, and merely have a front end web server that directs users to the appropriate server more power to them. Having seen first hand the disaster that most NAT and load balancers create I know I'd avoid them if at all possible. Maybe it's just so that if a host gets RBL'ed or otherwise blacklisted, they can switch IPs, and won't have an interruption of email service to their customers? If that's the case, that I'd point out most black lists are fairly good at checking registry allocation data, and blocking all the mail servers in a block if Spam continues. So if that were a problem you'd see 64.4/18 on the block list. ARIN has guidelines for allocating IP's. I don't agree with all of them, but they are fully documented on www.arin.net. I don't believe Microsoft was able to get around that process. So they are playing by the same rules and guidelines as anyone else. -- Leo Bicknell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: It's dead Jim
At 10:22 AM 8/18/02 -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: Yo! the reason you guy are the only ones answering this is because everyone else recognised it as a troll from some drunk.. nothing worse than a drunken troll - they're small and they're mean! marty -- SIMPL WebSite Creation: http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Hotmail (was Re: Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying)
On Sun, 2002-08-18 at 19:34, Terry Lambert wrote: [...] So if they were widely deployed, you would expect maybe 8 VIPs per colocation facility... but you would not expect them to be in a large, contiguous netblock: you'd expect them to be 8 here, and 8 there, etc., based on geographic location. Microsoft seems to like putting everything in the same subnet - remember their nameserver incident a while ago? http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/16321.html Painfully hilarious. I wonder if they hire MCSE's themselves... To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: IPDIVERT, having issues? [Moved to -questions]
Thanks for the idea, but sadly still didn't do the trick... it seems that the problem is something to do with ipfw loading as a module and not as a static lib... divert seems to be enabled in the kernel (lessing the kernel binary looking for the console message), and the module does not, (still reports that divert is disabled) so what seems to be happening is that the kernel is being overridden by the module at runtime, renaming the module prevents ipfw from loading... How can I force ipfw to build as a static lib in the kernel and not as a module? or perhaps is there something else that I need to do? - Original Message - From: Josh Paetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Devon Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 3:22 AM Subject: Re: IPDIVERT, having issues? [Moved to -questions] On Sun, 2002-08-18 at 06:20, Devon Stark wrote: Greetings! I am having a problem trying to get IPDIVERT to take.. I have setup my kernel conf to include the following lines options IPFIREWALL options IPDIVERT I have the nic configured and running just fine, for both local LAN and for internet (both of my NICs are plugged into the same switch for now) My /etc/rc.conf has gateway_enable=YES firewall_enable=YES natd_enable=YES Every time I boot the server I get a message saying that IP Packet filtering is enabled, along with any other configuration I specified (logging and such), but divert is always set to disabled!? I have gone to the point of building the kernel with '-DIPDIVERT' and still getting the same results... The main effect of this problem is of course that I get an error when I try to apply the following rule to my firewall 'ipfw add divert natd all from any to any via fxp0' The error is... ip_fw_ctl: invalid command ipfw: getsockopt(IP_FW_ADD): Invalid argument I have checked and natd is in the services list and seems to be configured properly. I have been searching for the answer for about 3 days now with little luck finding the answer. The only thing I can think of is that there is some other kernel option that I am enabling that is causing this problem, or perhaps that there is something that I am missing? I have included my config files here for review... Kernel config file (I striped out all of the comments for the sake of this post) machine i386 cpu I686_CPU ident THE-SERVER maxusers256 options MATH_EMULATE options INET options FFS options FFS_ROOT options SOFTUPDATES options UFS_DIRHASH options MFS options MD_ROOT options NFS options NFS_ROOT options MSDOSFS options CD9660 options CD9660_ROOT options PROCFS options COMPAT_43 options SCSI_DELAY=1000 options UCONSOLE options USERCONFIG options VISUAL_USERCONFIG options KTRACE options SYSVSHM options SYSVMSG options SYSVSEM options P1003_1B options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING options ICMP_BANDLIM options KBD_INSTALL_CDEV options IPFIREWALL options IPDIVERT options IPFIREWALL_FORWARD options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=50 options BRIDGE options IPSTEALTH options TCP_DROP_SYNFIN options SMP options APIC_IO device isa device eisa device pci device fdc0at isa? port IO_FD1 irq 6 drq 2 device fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 device ata0at isa? port IO_WD1 irq 14 device ata1at isa? port IO_WD2 irq 15 device ata device atadisk device atapicd device atapifd options ATA_STATIC_ID device ahb device ahc device amd device isp device ncr device sym options SYM_SETUP_LP_PROBE_MAP=0x40 device adv0at isa? device adw device bt0 at isa? device aha0at isa? device aic0at isa? device scbus device da device sa device cd device pass device asr device atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 flags 0x1 device psm0at atkbdc? irq 12 device vga0at isa? pseudo-device splash device sc0 at isa? flags 0x100 device npx0at nexus? port IO_NPX irq 13 device apm0at nexus? disable flags 0x20 device sio0at isa? port IO_COM1 flags 0x10 irq 4 device sio1at isa? port IO_COM2 irq 3 device ppc0at isa? irq 7 device ppbus device lpt device
Re: It's dead Jim
:At 10:22 AM 8/18/02 -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: :Yo! the reason you guy are the only ones :answering this is because everyone else recognised it as a troll from :some drunk.. : :nothing worse than a drunken troll - they're small and they're mean! : :marty Well, you know, the guy has only his old run-down hotmail account to mail from, we should cut the poor shmuck some slack. And the drunks always forget their password, too. He's probably crying to M$ tech support right now. Budda Budda Budda. -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
PC/104 for factor cpu boards running FreeBSD?
I've been investigating the use of PC/104 form factor cpu boards for a telemetry application. I've found quite a number of vendors and quite a few cards that appear to run Linux out of the box, and it would also appear that many of the cards could run FreeBSD fairly easily too (since most mimic PCs). Does anyone on this forum have any experience using these sorts of cards with FreeBSD and could you impart some of your general knowledge to me? I think the forum would be interested as well. -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Cant get PCCARD stuff working
I am trying to get a Card Master PCI-IF{T/I) card working so that I can
is there a device driver for PCI cards using the same chipset?
18.08.2002; 13:58:40
[SorAlx] http://cydem.zp.ua/
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with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: PC/104 for factor cpu boards running FreeBSD?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matthew Dillon writes: I've been investigating the use of PC/104 form factor cpu boards for a telemetry application. I've found quite a number of vendors and quite a few cards that appear to run Linux out of the box, and it would also appear that many of the cards could run FreeBSD fairly easily too (since most mimic PCs). Does anyone on this forum have any experience using these sorts of cards with FreeBSD and could you impart some of your general knowledge to me? I think the forum would be interested as well. I have yet to see a PC104 card which didn't support FreeBSD or (MSDOS 3.11 for that matter). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: PC/104 for factor cpu boards running FreeBSD?
Does anyone on this forum have any experience using these sorts of cards with FreeBSD and could you impart some of your general knowledge to me? I think the forum would be interested as well. Mike Smith was doing this as least as long ago as 1999 with a 486/PC104 at Walnut Creek. M -- o Mark Murray \_ O.\_Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Hotmail (was Re: Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying)
Can we maybe stop debating this and just have our postmaster do what he can to filter this kind of noise out? Recycled slashdot trolls are hardly the kind of content we want to see on [EMAIL PROTECTED] and what goes on in IRC has been repeatedly made clear to have nothing to do with the project on any official basis, so we don't need discussions of IRC behavior on hackers either. If we took it up in -hackers every time somebody dissed somebody else in IRC, we'd never have the bandwidth to discuss anything else. Filters? Please? Enough is enough. - Jordan On Sunday, August 18, 2002, at 10:34 AM, Terry Lambert wrote: Andy wrote: Remember that Hotmail is a part of MSN, and they would have a need for that many IP addresses, what with their Internet content service. Oh, I could definitely see Microsoft needing a lot of VIPs; they would need one per unique, deployed services, and potentially one per branding partner (depends on whether they expect a modern browser -- Host: being set correctly for virtual hosting). I'm pretty sure, that they have other address blocks, as well. 8-). For service availability, though, they would only really need a small number of VIPs per colocation facility, for a large and distributed service (basically, one per redundant virtual circuit path for initial distribution). So if they were widely deployed, you would expect maybe 8 VIPs per colocation facility... but you would not expect them to be in a large, contiguous netblock: you'd expect them to be 8 here, and 8 there, etc., based on geographic location. It's actually my understanding (I'm willing to be corrected here) that HotMail is pretty centrally served, because of the protocols involved, and because of their architecture. Anyway, I guess if I could get a full class B, I'd have one, and I wouldn't be questioning *why* someone had been willing to give it to me. 8-) 8-). It just seemed mighty strange. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
PC/104 boards.
[Mark Murray] [Matt Dillon] Does anyone on this forum have any experience using these sorts of cards with FreeBSD and could you impart some of your general knowledge to me? I think the forum would be interested as well. Mike Smith was doing this as least as long ago as 1999 with a 486/PC104 at Walnut Creek. Actually, that was a 386sx40 in an ALI PC-on-a-chip device on a board from Mesa Electronics. Poul's right though; most of the PC/104* boards are just PCs in an odd formfactor. The embedded market is very conservative (since complexity adds overhead and many customers are small and unsophisticated) so the systems tend to remain very backwards-compatible. It's just the usual areas that remain problematic; power management in particular. However, a good vendor will document all the magic bits on their board, so you do actually stand something of a chance of making it work. = Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: SCSI device emulation using SCSI host controller
On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 21:12:59 -0400, Sergey Babkin wrote: Kenneth D. Merry wrote: On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 23:41:14 +0700, Semen A. Ustimenko wrote: Hi! I beg you all pardon for a question not related directly to FreeBSD, but if the answer is ``yes'', then I believe FreeBSD will be in deal. The question is: Can I emulate a SCSI device (tape, if that matters) using usual SCSI host controller and specific software, or I will definitely need specific hardware? You'll need either the right Adaptec or QLogic controller, but yes, it can be done with FreeBSD. Or Symbios (now LSI Logic). Has anyone done any target mode code for their boards? I know they're probably capable of it, but AFAIK, the sym(4) driver doesn't support target mode and I didn't see anything in the mpt(4) commit that indicated that it supports target mode either. Indeed sym(4) doesn't support target mode. I had such plan to add such support a couple of years ago in order to make possible some low cost high speed host-to-host communication, but finally I didn't found for now good reasons enough for completing this work. Instead, the result would have not high speed at high cost communication and probably bunches of undocumented hardware bugs to suffer of. Btw, I haven't any project related to SCSI device emulation. My impressions and observations about Ncr/Symbios/Lsi 8xx/1010 SCSI/SCRIPT based devices for SCSI target mode are the following: 1) The older the chip, the better for target mode :-) (I mean less hardware bugs to work-around) 2) The vendor of the chips don't provide target mode drivers nor encourage this much to develop such. 3) Given the Device Errata Listings I could look into, the Ultra-160 LSI1010-33 is only usable in asynchronous mode (about 3 Mega-transfers per second) in target mode. (Better not to want to support target mode on those chips) Given #3, the maximum throughput with target mode on such chip family cannot be greater that 80 MB/s which is not faster than Gigabit ethernet for example. The current LSILOGIC interface technology for SCSI chip is MPT/fusion. I would suggest to rather invest on it. The 8xx SCSI scripts based technology will never support more than Ultra-160. Gérard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Great. Now, the anti-BSD spammers are spamming BSD mailing lists.
Time to get that Hotmail account turned off. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: It's dead Jim
On Sunday, 18 August 2002 at 7:23:31 -0700, Alfred Pythonstein wrote: Mad propz to Hiten 'imbecile' Pandya, btw... It is official -- Netcraft is now confirming: *BSD is dying Mike, is that you? You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying. Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers. OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts. Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house. All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead. Fact: *BSD is dying Fact: this claim is over a year old. On Sunday, 22 April 2001 at 14:44:28 -0700, Mike Cheponis wrote: Seen on slashdot today: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/04/22/0056207threshold=-1commentsort=0mode=threadpid=80 We should all keep in mind this simple truth: *BSD is dying. You don't need to be Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers. OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts. Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to another charnel house. All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyists, dabblers, and dilettantes. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead. Fact: trolls are facing hard times. Fact: trolls are dying. This one is dead, but hasn't noticed it yet. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
re: Re: Hotmail (was Re: Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying)
** Original Subject: Re: Hotmail (was Re: Insider's scoop: Why FreeBSD is dying) ** Original Sender: Jordan K Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Original Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:43:25 -0400 (EDT) ** Original Message follows... Can we maybe stop debating this and just have our postmaster do what he can to filter this kind of noise out? Recycled slashdot trolls are hardly the kind of content we want to see on [EMAIL PROTECTED] and what goes on in IRC has been repeatedly made clear to have nothing to do with the project on any official basis, so we don't need discussions of IRC behavior on hackers either. If we took it up in -hackers every time somebody dissed somebody else in IRC, we'd never have the bandwidth to discuss anything else. Filters? Please? Enough is enough. - Jordan On Sunday, August 18, 2002, at 10:34 AM, Terry Lambert wrote: Andy wrote: Remember that Hotmail is a part of MSN, and they would have a need for that many IP addresses, what with their Internet content service. Oh, I could definitely see Microsoft needing a lot of VIPs; they would need one per unique, deployed services, and potentially one per branding partner (depends on whether they expect a modern browser -- Host: being set correctly for virtual hosting). I'm pretty sure, that they have other address blocks, as well. 8-). For service availability, though, they would only really need a small number of VIPs per colocation facility, for a large and distributed service (basically, one per redundant virtual circuit path for initial distribution). So if they were widely deployed, you would expect maybe 8 VIPs per colocation facility... but you would not expect them to be in a large, contiguous netblock: you'd expect them to be 8 here, and 8 there, etc., based on geographic location. It's actually my understanding (I'm willing to be corrected here) that HotMail is pretty centrally served, because of the protocols involved, and because of their architecture. Anyway, I guess if I could get a full class B, I'd have one, and I wouldn't be questioning *why* someone had been willing to give it to me. 8-) 8-). It just seemed mighty strange. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message ** - End Original Message --- ** Pithy short comment that can seldom do. Well to expand on the Mark Twain saying, News of the Demise of *BSD is greatly exaggerated. News of the demise of many people, places or things often is very exaggerated. As long as it doesn't spark endless messages. Let's see ...sorry for the anti-socially short reply to a long message, but I like to quote whold contents and none of us, AS FAR AS I KNOW HAS SUFFER WITH A 300 BAUD WORLD!!! :) Have Fun, Sends Steve Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
