Re[6]: vkernel GSoC, some questions
Matt, We use VMWare Server at work. It does not have the same nice image management interface and/or video capture as commercial counterparts. However, it is is free and testing on it helps us out big time. We never concluded whether it maked sense to pay for VMWare licenses, instead of using free shell scripts legally available for free. I have used UML for development in the past. I even used bochs once to debug a boot loader. All nice tools. Beats real hardware for me. Xen and KVM are significantly slower than commercial products due to hardware switching. There is a GPLed product that works about as fast as VMWare's BT - VirtualBox by innotek. Sun recently scooped them up. Don't you use something like VMWare for development and debugging? In production, we don't use any of these products - too slow and too much RAM would be required. Sincerely, Igor Shmukler, http://www.elusiva.com -Original Message- From: Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Igor Shmukler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Re[4]: vkernel GSoC, some questions : :Matt, : :You sure won't argue that UML isolation is inherently better than one that can be provided by a hypervisor. If the performance is the same, what are you gaining? : :Hypervisor while slow, allows treating a complete OS with all applications as a black box. Why would I choose UML over a hypervisor? : :I am not trying to say there cannot be a place for vkernel. [I don't even yet understand what is does or how.] However, as a hosting company, why would I choose UML over a hypervisor? : :... : :igor Well, whos hypervisor are you using? -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: vkernel GSoC, some questions
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 01:16:41PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: This reminds me of XEN. Basically instead of trying to rewrite instructions or do 100% hardware emulation it sounds like they are providing XEN-like functionality where the target OS is aware it is running inside a hypervisor and can make explicit 'shortcut' calls to the hypervisor instead of attempting to access the resource via emulated hardware. That reminds me of IBM VM/CMS: CP (the hypervisor) had a variety of magic syscalls (via the DIAGNOSE instruction) that CMS would use to perform (eg) real I/O. Frankly, I would love to see something like VMWare force an industry-wide API for machine access which bypasses the holy hell of a mess we have It would need to be open and I can't see any particular driver for VMWare (or anyone else) to force this. with the BIOS, and see BIOSes then respec to a new far cleaner API. The BIOS is the stinking pile of horseshit that has held back OS development for the last 15 years. I'd go further and say that BIOSes are getting worse: Back in the AT-clone days, you could just totally ignore the BIOS once you'd gotten the kernel loaded. Now you _have_ to keep talking to the BIOS for things like ACPI - but the BIOSes are still just as broken as they used to be. -- Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. pgp7GShFjTuFG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: remote operation or admin
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 08:43:49PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: I have 4 computers, 1 big FreeBSD-current (4 x86 procs), 2 GentooLinux (1 is a dial AMD Opteron, the other a dual older x86), and 1 MacOSX (dual PPC). I was thinking about looking for two items, I'm not sure if I want one or both of them: either some software to let me merely remotely manage them (public software, mind) What do you see remotely manage them covering? For a small heterogenous network, it's not clear what you would save over just sticking the config files into CVS or similar. or, even better, something to get these disparate hardwares to be able to work together, and (as much as possible) to be able to share work. Again, what do you mean by share work? Are you looking for something like beowulf? -- Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. pgpGuFlQ5XvA1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: remote operation or admin
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 08:43:49PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: I have 4 computers, 1 big FreeBSD-current (4 x86 procs), 2 GentooLinux (1 is a dial AMD Opteron, the other a dual older x86), and 1 MacOSX (dual PPC). I was thinking about looking for two items, I'm not sure if I want one or both of them: either some software to let me merely remotely manage them (public software, mind) or, even better, something to get these disparate hardwares to be able to work together, and (as much as possible) to be able to share work. What might be the best, in terms of ability, and especially the ability to make these work together? If they're not a FreeBSD port, as long as they're reasonably stable, I don't mind porting things, but it needs to be stable on all those CPUs. Could you reo\commend me something? I'll go chase each one down, I won't jump on you if you're wrong, gimme your guesses, ok? I don't understand your question. It's almost like you're asking two questions: 1) How can I manage all of these machines remotely? (E.g. ssh, VNC, serial console, KVM, etc.) 2) How can I harness the power of all of these machines simultaneously? (e.g. some form of CPU clustering) Can you elaborate? -- | Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Freebsd/Xen: pcifront: IRQ resource allocation failed: Query
Hi ,
I am a Masters student at Carnegie Mellon Uni, working on xen/freebsd
opensource project. I have been working on pci-passtrhough support for
freebsd domU.
I am testing pcifront on freebsd domU using following sound card
[ Cirrus Logic CS 4614/22/24 [CrystalClear SoundFusion Audio Accelerator]
Following sound driver is used for this sound card on Freebsd:
*snd_csa*-- Crystal Semiconductor CS461x/462x/4280 PCI bridge device driver
I am able to detect the card.
pci3: PCI bus on pcib3
csa0: CS4280/CS4614/CS4622/CS4624/CS4630 mem
0xfafff000-0xfaff,0xfae0-0xfaef irq 16 at device 5.0 on pci3
csa: card is Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
But going ahead IRQ resource allocations fails, before interrupt
handler can be setup.
I found that it fails in rman_reserve_resource_bound
Because: r = TAILQ_FIRST(rm-rm_list) = is still NULL , as it was
initialized.
Here is the stacktrace:
(gdb) where
#0 rman_reserve_resource_bound (rm=0xc07b3de0, start=16, end=16,
count=1, bound=0, flags=4, dev=0xc0d8f700)
at ../../../kern/subr_rman.c:282
#1 0xc01747bc in rman_reserve_resource (rm=0xc07b3de0, start=16,
end=16, count=1, flags=4, dev=0xc0d8f700)
at ../../../kern/subr_rman.c:491
#2 0xc035cb75 in nexus_alloc_resource (bus=0xc0db3000,
child=0xc0d8f700, type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=16, end=16, count=1,
flags=6)
at ../../../i386/i386/nexus.c:367
#3 0xc016adae in bus_generic_alloc_resource (dev=0xc0d8f800,
child=0xc0d8f700, type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=16, end=16, count=1,
flags=6) at bus_if.h:263
#4 0xc016adae in bus_generic_alloc_resource (dev=0xc0d8f500,
child=0xc0d8f700, type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=16, end=16, count=1,
flags=6) at bus_if.h:263
#5 0xc016af34 in resource_list_alloc (rl=0xc0e03604, bus=0xc0e04b00,
child=0xc0d8f700, type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=16, end=16,
count=1, flags=6) at bus_if.h:263
#6 0xc00ab3d5 in pci_alloc_resource (dev=0xc0e04b00, child=0xc0d8f700,
type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=0, end=4294967295, count=1, flags=6)
at ../../../dev/pci/pci.c:3488
#7 0xc016ad1c in bus_alloc_resource (dev=0xc0d8f700, type=1,
rid=0xc0d8f994, start=0, end=4294967295, count=1, flags=6) at bus_if.h:263
#8 0xc00b54e6 in csa_attach (dev=0xc0d8f700) at bus.h:376
#9 0xc0169ecf in device_attach (dev=0xc0d8f700) at device_if.h:178
#10 0xc016a9f0 in device_probe_and_attach (dev=0xc0d8f700) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2369
#11 0xc016aad9 in bus_generic_attach (dev=0xc0e04b00) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2907
#12 0xc00ae8bf in pci_attach (dev=0xc0e04b00) at ../../../dev/pci/pci.c:2611
#13 0xc0169ecf in device_attach (dev=0xc0e04b00) at device_if.h:178
#14 0xc016a9f0 in device_probe_and_attach (dev=0xc0e04b00) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2369
#15 0xc016aad9 in bus_generic_attach (dev=0xc0d8f500) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2907
#16 0xc033811b in xpcib_attach (dev=0xc0d8f500) at
../../../dev/xen/pcifront/pcifront.c:702
#17 0xc0169ecf in device_attach (dev=0xc0d8f500) at device_if.h:178
#18 0xc016a9f0 in device_probe_and_attach (dev=0xc0d8f500) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2369
#19 0xc016aad9 in bus_generic_attach (dev=0xc0d8f800) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2907
#20 0xc03383ab in xpcife_attach (dev=0xc0d8f800) at
../../../dev/xen/pcifront/pcifront.c:640
#21 0xc0169ecf in device_attach (dev=0xc0d8f800) at device_if.h:178
#22 0xc016a9f0 in device_probe_and_attach (dev=0xc0d8f800) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2369
#23 0xc033792a in pcifront_backend_changed (xdev=0xc0e05000,
be_state=XenbusStateConnected) at ../../../dev/xen/pcifront/pcifront.c:346
#24 0xc032fea8 in otherend_changed (watch=0xc0e05000, vec=0xc0defa00,
len=2) at ../../../xen/xenbus/xenbus_probe.c:330
#25 0xc0330aec in xenwatch_thread (unused=0x0) at
../../../xen/xenbus/xenbus_xs.c:741
#26 0xc0129968 in fork_exit (callout=0xc0330980 xenwatch_thread,
arg=0x0, frame=0xc588bd38) at ../../../kern/kern_fork.c:795
#27 0xc0350e84 in fork_trampoline () at ../../../i386/xen/exception.s:240
(gdb) p rm-rm_list
$4 = {tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0xc07b3de0}
(gdb)
tqh_first is still 0 ( as it was initialzed ) which ultimately causes
the IRQ resource allocation to fail.
Am I missing anything ?
Looking forward to hearing from you,Thanks for the help in advance.
Thanks,
Sanket Hase
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Freebsd/Xen: pcifront: IRQ resource allocation failed: Query
Hi All,
I am a Masters student at Carnegie Mellon Uni, working on xen/freebsd
opensource project. I have been working on pci-passtrhough support for
freebsd domU.
I am testing pcifront on freebsd domU using following sound card
[ Cirrus Logic CS 4614/22/24 [CrystalClear SoundFusion Audio Accelerator]
Following sound driver is used for this sound card on Freebsd:
*snd_csa*-- Crystal Semiconductor CS461x/462x/4280 PCI bridge device driver
I am able to detect the card.
pci3: PCI bus on pcib3
csa0: CS4280/CS4614/CS4622/CS4624/CS4630 mem
0xfafff000-0xfaff,0xfae0-0xfaef irq 16 at device 5.0 on pci3
csa: card is Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
But going ahead IRQ resource allocations fails, before interrupt
handler can be setup.
I found that it fails in rman_reserve_resource_bound
Because: r = TAILQ_FIRST(rm-rm_list) = is still NULL , as it was
initialized.
Here is the stacktrace:
(gdb) where
#0 rman_reserve_resource_bound (rm=0xc07b3de0, start=16, end=16,
count=1, bound=0, flags=4, dev=0xc0d8f700)
at ../../../kern/subr_rman.c:282
#1 0xc01747bc in rman_reserve_resource (rm=0xc07b3de0, start=16,
end=16, count=1, flags=4, dev=0xc0d8f700)
at ../../../kern/subr_rman.c:491
#2 0xc035cb75 in nexus_alloc_resource (bus=0xc0db3000,
child=0xc0d8f700, type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=16, end=16, count=1,
flags=6)
at ../../../i386/i386/nexus.c:367
#3 0xc016adae in bus_generic_alloc_resource (dev=0xc0d8f800,
child=0xc0d8f700, type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=16, end=16, count=1,
flags=6) at bus_if.h:263
#4 0xc016adae in bus_generic_alloc_resource (dev=0xc0d8f500,
child=0xc0d8f700, type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=16, end=16, count=1,
flags=6) at bus_if.h:263
#5 0xc016af34 in resource_list_alloc (rl=0xc0e03604, bus=0xc0e04b00,
child=0xc0d8f700, type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=16, end=16,
count=1, flags=6) at bus_if.h:263
#6 0xc00ab3d5 in pci_alloc_resource (dev=0xc0e04b00, child=0xc0d8f700,
type=1, rid=0xc0d8f994, start=0, end=4294967295, count=1, flags=6)
at ../../../dev/pci/pci.c:3488
#7 0xc016ad1c in bus_alloc_resource (dev=0xc0d8f700, type=1,
rid=0xc0d8f994, start=0, end=4294967295, count=1, flags=6) at bus_if.h:263
#8 0xc00b54e6 in csa_attach (dev=0xc0d8f700) at bus.h:376
#9 0xc0169ecf in device_attach (dev=0xc0d8f700) at device_if.h:178
#10 0xc016a9f0 in device_probe_and_attach (dev=0xc0d8f700) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2369
#11 0xc016aad9 in bus_generic_attach (dev=0xc0e04b00) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2907
#12 0xc00ae8bf in pci_attach (dev=0xc0e04b00) at ../../../dev/pci/pci.c:2611
#13 0xc0169ecf in device_attach (dev=0xc0e04b00) at device_if.h:178
#14 0xc016a9f0 in device_probe_and_attach (dev=0xc0e04b00) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2369
#15 0xc016aad9 in bus_generic_attach (dev=0xc0d8f500) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2907
#16 0xc033811b in xpcib_attach (dev=0xc0d8f500) at
../../../dev/xen/pcifront/pcifront.c:702
#17 0xc0169ecf in device_attach (dev=0xc0d8f500) at device_if.h:178
#18 0xc016a9f0 in device_probe_and_attach (dev=0xc0d8f500) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2369
#19 0xc016aad9 in bus_generic_attach (dev=0xc0d8f800) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2907
#20 0xc03383ab in xpcife_attach (dev=0xc0d8f800) at
../../../dev/xen/pcifront/pcifront.c:640
#21 0xc0169ecf in device_attach (dev=0xc0d8f800) at device_if.h:178
#22 0xc016a9f0 in device_probe_and_attach (dev=0xc0d8f800) at
../../../kern/subr_bus.c:2369
#23 0xc033792a in pcifront_backend_changed (xdev=0xc0e05000,
be_state=XenbusStateConnected) at ../../../dev/xen/pcifront/pcifront.c:346
#24 0xc032fea8 in otherend_changed (watch=0xc0e05000, vec=0xc0defa00,
len=2) at ../../../xen/xenbus/xenbus_probe.c:330
#25 0xc0330aec in xenwatch_thread (unused=0x0) at
../../../xen/xenbus/xenbus_xs.c:741
#26 0xc0129968 in fork_exit (callout=0xc0330980 xenwatch_thread,
arg=0x0, frame=0xc588bd38) at ../../../kern/kern_fork.c:795
#27 0xc0350e84 in fork_trampoline () at ../../../i386/xen/exception.s:240
(gdb) p rm-rm_list
$4 = {tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0xc07b3de0}
(gdb)
tqh_first is still 0 ( as it was initialzed ) which ultimately causes
the IRQ resource allocation to fail.
Am I missing anything ?
Looking forward to hearing from you,Thanks for the help in advance.
Thanks,
Sanket Hase
___
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Re: Summer of Code 2008 Project Ideas
On Mar 17, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Murray Stokely wrote: The FreeBSD Project was again accepted as a mentoring organization for the Google Summer of Code. The student application period will begin next week so if you have any ideas for great student projects, please send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or post them here for discussion. A good student project has a well defined purpose, some key FreeBSD developers that could be identified as potential mentors, and is feasible for a student to complete in a few months time. The existing ideas list is available here : http://www.freebsd.org/projects/ideas/ If you can suggest something (getting specific parts of valgrind working on FreeBSD?) then please provide information in the form of the other projects listed on the page as far as difficulty level, requirements, etc.. Thanks, - Murray Sysinstall - Isn't this being handled to some extent? I remember someone posting an RFC a few months ago. They may need a helping hand in coding stuff up, but it sounded like there was a plan already in place. Improving the USB stack in FreeBSD - Wasn't HFS working on that too? Duplicating work might not be a good thing.. FAT (msdosfs) infrastructure work - (extension) Microsoft is coming up with a new extension to VFAT (they're calling it x-FAT), which supports large devices. There's also FATX (Xbox based FAT-spinoff FS). I was just thinking that combining the three into a base library with individual extensions might be a good idea. NTFS - sync FreeBSD up with ntfs project - NTFS support in FreeBSD is a bit out of date, and panics on some platforms with some configurations. Bringing NTFS in the kernel / userland up to date would be a welcome improvement for many users. FYI, I'm still working on the following items: 1. Add hashed .db support to pkg_tools (accepted) 2. Utility for safe updating of ports in base system (assumed) 3. Package tools improvements (assumed) Not saying helping hands wouldn't be welcome with my work, but I owe FreeBSD / GSoC as much of my time for last year and I've committed myself to seeing my work through. Thanks, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Summer of Code 2008 Project Ideas
Hi Murray Stokely! On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:15:40 -0700; Murray Stokely wrote about 'Summer of Code 2008 Project Ideas': The FreeBSD Project was again accepted as a mentoring organization for the Google Summer of Code. The student application period will begin next week so if you have any ideas for great student projects, please send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or post them here for discussion. A good student project has a well defined purpose, some key FreeBSD developers that could be identified as potential mentors, and is feasible for a student to complete in a few months time. The existing ideas list is available here : http://www.freebsd.org/projects/ideas/ If you can suggest something (getting specific parts of valgrind working on FreeBSD?) then please provide information in the form of the other projects listed on the page as far as difficulty level, requirements, etc.. I'm going to write a proposal about a bunch of changes in ipfw2 (dynamic rules and others) in a day or two and post it for architectural discussion to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Has it any chances to go to SoC 2008 ? -- WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freebsd 7.0 on ASUS P4R8L - No Disks Found!
But with that said, what mode is your SATA/IDE controller in? If there is an AHCI or Legacy mode, try it again. or Compatible mode (not Enchansed) in BIOS /Vladimir Ermakov // ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: remote operation or admin
In response to Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have 4 computers, 1 big FreeBSD-current (4 x86 procs), 2 GentooLinux (1 is a dial AMD Opteron, the other a dual older x86), and 1 MacOSX (dual PPC). I was thinking about looking for two items, I'm not sure if I want one or both of them: either some software to let me merely remotely manage them (public software, mind) or, even better, something to get these disparate hardwares to be able to work together, and (as much as possible) to be able to share work. What might be the best, in terms of ability, and especially the ability to make these work together? If they're not a FreeBSD port, as long as they're reasonably stable, I don't mind porting things, but it needs to be stable on all those CPUs. Could you reo\commend me something? I'll go chase each one down, I won't jump on you if you're wrong, gimme your guesses, ok? Your question is extraordinarily vague. I manage multiple systems remotely using ssh, so I'm not sure what additional stuff you want. However, here are some links that may provide some help. All of these are FreeBSD ports, and I'm fairly sure they'll work on Gentoo and OSX as well: http://www.webmin.com/ http://www.cfengine.org/ http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/ -- Bill Moran Collaborative Fusion Inc. http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 412-422-3463x4023 ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: vkernel GSoC, some questions
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008, Peter Jeremy wrote: with the BIOS, and see BIOSes then respec to a new far cleaner API. The BIOS is the stinking pile of horseshit that has held back OS development for the last 15 years. I'd go further and say that BIOSes are getting worse: Back in the AT-clone days, you could just totally ignore the BIOS once you'd gotten the kernel loaded. Now you _have_ to keep talking to the BIOS for things like ACPI - but the BIOSes are still just as broken as they used to be. On Sun's Niagara (sun4v) platform, it is expected that all OS's will sit on top of the hypervisor that ships in the firmware, abstracting away countless basic hardware services behind hypercalls. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Graphic boot loader?
Jeremy Chadwick wrote: Igor_Z wrote: Does anybody know something about graphic boot loader? I mean how to make this? I know that some guy is did it, but how? That is the question! =) This is currently in development, as I understand it. The individual working on it is Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I'm sorry for the late reply, I'm currently swamped with work (not FreeBSD-related). It's true I'm working on the graphics support for the boot loader. Development is done in the P4 repository first. As soon as I have something for public test, I will post an RFT to the -current list. I plan to provide a .tar.gz that can simply be dropped in /boot, so everyone can participate in the test easily. It should work with both 8-current and 7-stable. I'm only asking for a little bit of patience, because my free time for working on this is currently very limited. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd What is this talk of 'release'? We do not make software 'releases'. Our software 'escapes', leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[6]: vkernel GSoC, some questions
:Matt, : :We use VMWare Server at work. It does not have the same nice image management interface and/or video capture as commercial counterparts. However, it is is free and testing on it helps us out big time. We never concluded whether it maked sense to pay for VMWare licenses, instead of using free shell scripts legally available for free. : :I have used UML for development in the past. I even used bochs once to debug a boot loader. All nice tools. Beats real hardware for me. : :Xen and KVM are significantly slower than commercial products due to hardware switching. There is a GPLed product that works about as fast as VMWare's BT - VirtualBox by innotek. Sun recently scooped them up. You've tried them all pretty much. VirtualBox is the only one that's actually open-source (well, bochs is too but bochs is a full simulator and unusably slow). VB is very nicely documented too, though I get a headache trying to read all that C++. I know several people using VB on linux host systems. The reason I ask is simply because I am trying to point out *the* major issue for open-source systems when it comes to hardware virtualization, that being the availability of an open-source solution. I have never trusted VMWare to maintain compatibility with any longevity. VB has a better chance and even though it is hard to gauge what Sun will do with it, I'd rather it be Sun then MS. :Don't you use something like VMWare for development and debugging? We use vkernel's for development and debugging. Pretty much everything except hardware device driver development can be done using a vkernel and being able to gdb the kernel binary (gdb, not kgdb) on a whim is rather nice. Kinda hard to beat a 5-second reboot, it makes the engineering test cycle almost as short as hitting ^C and re-running a program. I don't even bother to do a clean halt of the vkernel most of time, I just pop it into it's DDB with ctl-\ and then kill it with ^C, then restart. One interesting side-effect of having a vkernel so easily accessible is that it opens up kernel development to normal programmers. More DragonFly developers have been dipping their fingers into the kernel code in the last 6 months then in all the time before then. That alone justifies the time spent doing it. Except for hardware device driver development, the agonizing engineering cycle for kernel development is completely gone now. -Matt :In production, we don't use any of these products - too slow and too much RAM would be required. : :Sincerely, : :Igor Shmukler, http://www.elusiva.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: vkernel GSoC, some questions
Matthew Dillon wrote: :Matt, : :We use VMWare Server at work. It does not have the same nice image management interface and/or video capture as commercial counterparts. However, it is is free and testing on it helps us out big time. We never concluded whether it maked sense to pay for VMWare licenses, instead of using free shell scripts legally available for free. : :I have used UML for development in the past. I even used bochs once to debug a boot loader. All nice tools. Beats real hardware for me. : :Xen and KVM are significantly slower than commercial products due to hardware switching. There is a GPLed product that works about as fast as VMWare's BT - VirtualBox by innotek. Sun recently scooped them up. You've tried them all pretty much. VirtualBox is the only one that's actually open-source (well, bochs is too but bochs is a full simulator and unusably slow). VB is very nicely documented too, though I get a headache trying to read all that C++. I know several people using VB on linux host systems. The reason I ask is simply because I am trying to point out *the* major issue for open-source systems when it comes to hardware virtualization, that being the availability of an open-source solution. I have never trusted VMWare to maintain compatibility with any longevity. VB has a better chance and even though it is hard to gauge what Sun will do with it, I'd rather it be Sun then MS. :Don't you use something like VMWare for development and debugging? We use vkernel's for development and debugging. Pretty much everything except hardware device driver development can be done using a vkernel and being able to gdb the kernel binary (gdb, not kgdb) on a whim is rather nice. Kinda hard to beat a 5-second reboot, it makes the engineering test cycle almost as short as hitting ^C and re-running a program. I don't even bother to do a clean halt of the vkernel most of time, I just pop it into it's DDB with ctl-\ and then kill it with ^C, then restart. One interesting side-effect of having a vkernel so easily accessible is that it opens up kernel development to normal programmers. More DragonFly developers have been dipping their fingers into the kernel code in the last 6 months then in all the time before then. That alone justifies the time spent doing it. Except for hardware device driver development, the agonizing engineering cycle for kernel development is completely gone now. -Matt :In production, we don't use any of these products - too slow and too much RAM would be required. : :Sincerely, : :Igor Shmukler, http://www.elusiva.com I have thought of the vkernel primarily as an aid to kernel development (where performance is not a prime concern), not as a virtualisation solution that will compete with Xen and VMWare. It's difficult to compete with thousands of men-hours paid by corporate funding. So far nobody has expressed interest in vkernels as a tool for kernel development. And I got the general impression that I've proposed something stupid and useless. I can see the value in having a virtualisation solution in the base system that allows one to easily try out kernel development. I know it would have helped _me_ get into the forbidden land. I'm augmenting my project idea by dropping the AMD64 version, and adding performance work to reduce overhead for disk I/O and networking. I'll also make sure that no kernel function renaming will be needed, through some linking magic. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Building in /usr/src copied to $HOME
Hi,
I am trying to use /usr/src copied to my $HOME but the build process doesn't
want to work. For example when I try build /bin/cp I get the following:
shell::wilx:~/freebsd/src/bin/cp make
/usr/home/users/wilx/freebsd/src/bin/cp/../Makefile.inc, line 9: Malformed
conditional (${MK_DYNAMICROOT} == no)
/usr/share/mk/bsd.init.mk, line 15: if-less endif
make: fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue
Is there any sort of tutorial/prescription anywhere how to use /usr/src tree
that does not reside in /usr/src?
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Re: Building in /usr/src copied to $HOME
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 09:28:50PM +0100, Vclav Haisman wrote:
Hi,
I am trying to use /usr/src copied to my $HOME but the build process
doesn't want to work. For example when I try build /bin/cp I get the
following:
shell::wilx:~/freebsd/src/bin/cp make
/usr/home/users/wilx/freebsd/src/bin/cp/../Makefile.inc, line 9:
Malformed conditional (${MK_DYNAMICROOT} == no)
/usr/share/mk/bsd.init.mk, line 15: if-less endif
make: fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue
Is there any sort of tutorial/prescription anywhere how to use /usr/src
tree that does not reside in /usr/src?
You should link your /usr/src to ~/freebsd/src/ and that will make it work.
M.
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Re: Building in /usr/src copied to $HOME
Václav Haisman wrote, On 18.3.2008 21:28:
Hi,
I am trying to use /usr/src copied to my $HOME but the build process
doesn't want to work. For example when I try build /bin/cp I get the
following:
shell::wilx:~/freebsd/src/bin/cp make
/usr/home/users/wilx/freebsd/src/bin/cp/../Makefile.inc, line 9:
Malformed conditional (${MK_DYNAMICROOT} == no)
/usr/share/mk/bsd.init.mk, line 15: if-less endif
make: fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue
Is there any sort of tutorial/prescription anywhere how to use /usr/src
tree that does not reside in /usr/src?
Never mind, I have realised that I have copied the wrong tree. I have coped
/usr/src for HEAD instead of 6.3 that the box uses. With the 6.3 /usr/src it
works fine.
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Re: vkernel GSoC, some questions
Jordan Gordeev wrote: Matthew Dillon wrote: We use vkernel's for development and debugging. ... One interesting side-effect of having a vkernel so easily accessible is that it opens up kernel development to normal programmers. More DragonFly developers have been dipping their fingers into the kernel code in the last 6 months then in all the time before then. That alone justifies the time spent doing it. Except for hardware device driver development, the agonizing engineering cycle for kernel development is completely gone now. I have thought of the vkernel primarily as an aid to kernel development (where performance is not a prime concern), not as a virtualisation solution that will compete with Xen and VMWare. It's difficult to compete with thousands of men-hours paid by corporate funding. So far nobody has expressed interest in vkernels as a tool for kernel development. And I got the general impression that I've proposed something stupid and useless. I can see this would be advantageous for lowering the barrier for kernel development. The easier this is made, the better chance we have of people having a go at fixing issues in some of the unmaintained bits and pieces out there. I recall trying to take the leap into kernel development some years back to fix some issues in NWFS and SMBFS; even though I was using VMware for testing, I still found the whole compile/install/reboot test cycle a bit tedious. If it were a matter of just Ctrl-C'ing a kernel and then waiting 5 seconds or a new one to boot up, while still having the rest of the machine available outside to view/edit source at the same time, it would be much simpler... -- Antony ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: vkernel GSoC, some questions
Matthew Dillon wrote: :Matt, ... :Don't you use something like VMWare for development and debugging? We use vkernel's for development and debugging. Pretty much everything except hardware device driver development can be done using a vkernel... Does that include trying to get rid of the BGL, for example? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Building in /usr/src copied to $HOME
On 2008-03-18 21:28, V??clav Haisman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I am trying to use /usr/src copied to my $HOME but the build process
doesn't want to work. For example when I try build /bin/cp I get the
following:
shell::wilx:~/freebsd/src/bin/cp make
/usr/home/users/wilx/freebsd/src/bin/cp/../Makefile.inc, line 9:
Malformed conditional (${MK_DYNAMICROOT} == no)
/usr/share/mk/bsd.init.mk, line 15: if-less endif
make: fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue
Is there any sort of tutorial/prescription anywhere how to use /usr/src
tree that does not reside in /usr/src?
Hmmm, that should work. I regularly build as a non-root user, at
`/home/build/src'.
The error about ``Malformed conditional'' seems a bit odd too. Are you
using /usr/bin/make? What version of FreeBSD is the build host running,
and what version of the source tree have you checked out?
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