thread0 usage in syncache_socket()
Hi, in syncache_socket() in tcp_syncache.c the global variable thread0 is used to do a in6_pcbconnect() with the ucread of thread0. Why is the thread0 used here and not the one of the current thread? -- Sebastian Huber, embedded brains GmbH Address : Obere Lagerstr. 30, D-82178 Puchheim, Germany Phone : +49 89 18 90 80 79-6 Fax : +49 89 18 90 80 79-9 E-Mail : sebastian.hu...@embedded-brains.de PGP : Public key available on request. Diese Nachricht ist keine geschäftliche Mitteilung im Sinne des EHUG. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool
on 23/04/2012 00:21 Marius Strobl said the following: On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 06:37:54PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: [snip] I am particularly interested in reviews of my attempt to make ZFS boot support arch-independent. The arches, of course, would have to add some code to make use of that support. Currently I only enabled it for x86. I can't say much about these patches as a whole as they are rather big and I'm not aware of all the details of ZFS. However, one bit that makes the current implementation x86-specific is zfs_dev_init(). If you could move it to the MD part in the course of these patches that would be great. I have arranged this in my WIP version of the patch, which I hope to share soon. Need to work out some unrelated details. If you could also take the second patch in PR 165025 into account, which I plan to commit once the issue with the current ofw_disk.c are properly solved, that would be great. Thank you for the heads up. Since I also hope to commit my patch rather soon, I would also appreciate if you keep my changes in mind :-) In fact, I would like to ask you if it would make sense to postpone the patch from the PR until my patch is committed. That should make some things easier to do (e.g. MD zfs_dev_init), but on the other hand some things would become different. Either way, one of the patches would have to be rebased on top of the other. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool
on 23/04/2012 09:23 Andrey V. Elsukov said the following: On 23.04.2012 1:21, Marius Strobl wrote: I can't say much about these patches as a whole as they are rather big and I'm not aware of all the details of ZFS. However, one bit that makes the current implementation x86-specific is zfs_dev_init(). If you could move it to the MD part in the course of these patches that would be great. If you could also take the second patch in PR 165025 into account, which I plan to commit once the issue with the current ofw_disk.c are properly solved, that would be great. I also have some WIP related to moving partition table handling into MD part. You can look here: http://people.freebsd.org/~ae/sys_boot.diff I like this patch. OTOH, I couldn't help by wonder if it is possible to somehow directly re-use the results of dv_init probing by other drivers (or subset of the drivers, like only 'disk'). E.g. if instead of re-examining the partition tables, we could ask a driver for a list of devices that it discovered. But how to do that is not something that I can answer. This patch have one problem, there is no way to determine disk size and i'm thinking about adding ioctl(DIOCGMEDIASIZE) to the disk devsw. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool
On 27.04.2012 13:14, Andriy Gapon wrote: I also have some WIP related to moving partition table handling into MD Oh, i did mean MI part. part. You can look here: http://people.freebsd.org/~ae/sys_boot.diff I like this patch. OTOH, I couldn't help by wonder if it is possible to somehow directly re-use the results of dv_init probing by other drivers (or subset of the drivers, like only 'disk'). E.g. if instead of re-examining the partition tables, we could ask a driver for a list of devices that it discovered. But how to do that is not something that I can answer. What you think about this concept: We can implement some MI API to query disks count and each disk parameters (mediasize, sectorsize). This MI code will use some IOCTL that will act with MD disk's devsw-ioctl. devicename.c functions can be changed to use MI DISK API together with PART API, or maybe even moved to the MI code. In the result we will have some MI API to get access to the disks and partitions, that we can use anywhere, e.g. in the ZFS code. -- WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: thread0 usage in syncache_socket()
On Friday, April 27, 2012 3:56:06 am Sebastian Huber wrote: Hi, in syncache_socket() in tcp_syncache.c the global variable thread0 is used to do a in6_pcbconnect() with the ucread of thread0. Why is the thread0 used here and not the one of the current thread? The current thread is generally not all that interesting in this case. Note that this is used for building a socket that will be returned by accept(), not due to a call to connect(), so the only credential establishing this connection would be the user on the remote machine that opened the connection. The current thread for this call is typically an interrupt thread of some sort, but it can also be a netisr thread, or a device driver taskqueue thread, etc. thread0 gives a stable credential to use for creating accepted connections. -- John Baldwin ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool
on 27/04/2012 13:37 Andrey V. Elsukov said the following: What you think about this concept: We can implement some MI API to query disks count and each disk parameters (mediasize, sectorsize). This MI code will use some IOCTL that will act with MD disk's devsw-ioctl. devicename.c functions can be changed to use MI DISK API together with PART API, or maybe even moved to the MI code. In the result we will have some MI API to get access to the disks and partitions, that we can use anywhere, e.g. in the ZFS code. Sorry, but I couldn't understand your design. Probably I am missing the bigger picture. I think that for ZFS case it would be sufficient to be able to iterate over detected device names or devspecs. Size and other disk properties do not seem to be needed. Unless I am mistaken, of course. E.g. something akin to what bd_print (dv_print, in the general case) does but oriented towards programmatic use rather than end-user. Maybe all that partition table parsing should be done only once (e.g. in the init method) and the result should be saved. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Ways to promote FreeBSD?
After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. -- Andrew Young Mosaic Storage Systems, Inc http://www.mosaicarchive.com/ Twitter: @MosaicArchive Facebook: Mosaic ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:16:51AM -0400, Andy Young wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. This is probably a better discussion for advocacy@... added to CC line. Anyway a central point of contact for further information related to that can be found at http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ Welcome -- - (2^(N-1)) pgpgBEzYeCEAJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Andy Young ayo...@mosaicarchive.com wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, Can you name a few? I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. It would be interesting to read about your infrastructure, the reasons why you found FreeBSD to be a better fit than what you used before, challenges during deployment and migration, any resulting performance/maintenance improvements, etc. A short article or a blog post with the above maybe? I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. (Adding freebsd-advocacy@ to CC). ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
NFS - slow
is there any way to speed up NFS server? from what i noticed: - reads works fast and good, like accessed locally, readahead up to maxbsize works fine on large files etc. - write works terribly. it performs sync on every write IMHO, setting vfs.nfsrv.async=1 improves things SLIGHTLY, but still - writes are sent to hard disk every single block - no clustering. am i doing something wrong or is it that broken? i tried user space nfs from ports, it's funny but it's performance is actually better after i removed fsync from code. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a breath to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a hardened FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 05:18:47PM -0400, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : There, you are wrong. If you choose to take the defaults, you can breeze through installation just setting IP and hostame and nameserver the same as on any Lunix I have ever installed. But, FreeBSD does make options much more plentiful than Linux and that is one of the things that makes FreeBSD so powerful and useful. It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . Completely not true. In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . I never set anything special for using USB or CD, etc. I just put in some media and mount them and use them. I don't need to do anything special in installation. I have always had to muck with rc stuff and especially the horrid iptables every time I have installed a Lunic. Enough, though. I doubt you will be convinced. jerry This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a breath to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a hardened FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . And that's a good thing. :) It forces people to learn. And it allows people to create the system *they* need, instead of being forced to use the system the project thinks everyone needs. We spend a good 2-3 hours customising Ubuntu Server and Debian Linux installs to make them work they way *we* want them to, with the software *we* want, and the configurations *we* need. Most of that time is spent undoing all the helpful abstractions that Ubuntu/Debian devs think make life simpler (and they do, *IF* you use a GUI to manage things, but CLI users are left in the cold). Just look at the horrible mess that is GRUB2 configuration on Ubuntu/Debina, with shell script snippets spread through 4 different directories. Great for GUI tools to parse and update, but a royal pain for CLI users. Compared to FreeBSD where you get a nice, barebones system where we spend some time *building up* the system we want, instead of tearing down/removing excess crud. The beauty of FreeBSD as well, is that there are other projects that build on FreeBSD to create super-simple-easy-to-use-ready-from-the-word-go setups, like PC-BSD. :) With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Everything you rant about is covered by PC-BSD ... yet, you don't want PC-BSD. :) Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Considering how long it's been used by various people around the world, I would hardly call PC-BSD untested. Maybe it's time to fire up a VM and try it? You may be pleasantly surprised that everything you are complaining about is there, ready and waiting for you to click on it. Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Freddie Cash fjwc...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
- Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) Regards Steve This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Steven Hartland wrote: - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) I worked for the CS dept. at a university for 30years. What I observed was that students were usually enthusiastic about trying a new os. However, these days, they have almost no idea how to work in a command line environment. If they installed FreeBSD, it would be zapped off their disk within minutes of the install completing and they'd forget about it. They install and like distros like Ubuntu, which install and work the way they expect (yes, they expect a GUI desktop, etc). When they get out in industry, they remember Linux, but won't remember FreeBSD (at least not in a good way). Now, I am not suggesting that FreeBSD try and generate Ubuntu-like desktop distros. However, it might be nice if the top level web page let people know that the installs there are not desktop systems and point them to PC-BSD (or whatever other desktop distro there might be?) for a desktop install. (I know, the original poster wasn't a PC-BSD fan, but others seem happy with it. I'll admit I've never tried it, but then, I'm not a GUI desktop guy.:-) Just my $0.00 worth, rick Regards Steve This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 6:32 PM, Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.ukwrote: - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) Regards Steve As I mentioned in my previous messages , the new bsdinstall is a very nice and very good installer . My ideas are not about goodness of installer programs , but related to installation structure especially for desktop users . Therefore , it is not suitable to mix these concepts . I am NOT claiming that Linux is better than FreeBSD . I find such comparisons very useless . Each has its advantages and disadvantages . Some Linux distributions require much knowledge for install than FreeBSD requirements . Some distributions are very good for installation structure for desktop users ( for example , Fedora , Mandriva , Mageia , Debian , and some others ) If I repeat once more , I am talking about usage easiness after default installation of FreeBSD by ordinary ( means NOT being computing expert ) new desktop users . It is obvious that if any one attempts to install and maintain a server , it is likely that she or he is much more knowledgeable than a new user . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Rick Macklem rmack...@uoguelph.ca wrote: Steven Hartland wrote: - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) I worked for the CS dept. at a university for 30years. What I observed was that students were usually enthusiastic about trying a new os. However, these days, they have almost no idea how to work in a command line environment. If they installed FreeBSD, it would be zapped off their disk within minutes of the install completing and they'd forget about it. They install and like distros like Ubuntu, which install and work the way they expect (yes, they expect a GUI desktop, etc). When they get out in industry, they remember Linux, but won't remember FreeBSD (at least not in a good way). Now, I am not suggesting that FreeBSD try and generate Ubuntu-like desktop distros. However, it might be nice if the top level web page let people know that the installs there are not desktop systems and point them to PC-BSD (or whatever other desktop distro there might be?) for a desktop install. (I know, the original poster wasn't a PC-BSD fan, but others seem happy with it. I'll admit I've never tried it, but then, I'm not a GUI desktop guy.:-) Just my $0.00 worth, rick Regards Steve Absolutely I do NOT have any idea against PC-BSD . My wish is that it should be much better than its current state . My suggestion is that it needs testing before its releases especially on bare metal with new and previously installed different operating system hard disks . Installation success on a VM ( Virtual Machine ) is very misleading because a VM is an artificial environment and it is supplying some services which they are not available in a bare metal machine . FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each release of it ) . My ideas are about parameters set by installation for desktop users , not for computing experts . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: serial lirc driver for testing (and a book review)
I have now updated the shar and patch to uart(4) code from head (instead of 9.0), fixed read() not respecting O_NONBLOCK, and improved behaviour at kldunload: http://people.freebsd.org/~nox/tmp/uart-lirc-preliminary-002.patch and http://people.freebsd.org/~nox/tmp/uartlirc-preliminary-002.shar If someone would like to comment on the code I'd be grateful! :) On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 11:08:38PM +0200, Juergen Lock wrote: Hi! For those that don't read forums.freebsd.org: I posted a short review of FreeBSD Device Drivers: A Guide for the Intrepid by Joseph Kong, http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?p=175029 and wrote a serial lirc driver in the process. If you want to test it extract the shar, run `make DEBUG_FLAGS=-g' in the extracted uartlirc dir, then copy uartlirc.ko and uartlirc.ko.symbols to /boot/modules, reboot to loader prompt, do `load uartlirc.ko' and `boot -v'. (or add `uartlirc_load=YES' to loader.conf and reboot.) After that make sure you have the comms/lirc port installed, then you should be able to run: mode2 -d /dev/lirc0 or if you have X, xmode2 -d /dev/lirc0 and see pulses and spaces reported when triggering a remote at the receiver, and using irrecord and lircd should work as normal too, see the pkg-message of the comms/lirc port which can be shown like this: pkg_info -D lirc\* |less Enjoy, :) Juergen ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Greetings... On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:18:47 -0400 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a breath to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a hardened FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk I'm wondering if spinning up a live DVD desktop version, using GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD for a test drive. That'd give new ppl to FreeBSD an oportunity to try-before-commit. I'd envision the DVD having links on the desktop to all the important info regarding the setup, and use of a *BSD system -- including the pre-requisits to setup/install. It'd give them a hands on experience, so they'd know in advance, what to expect. It might also be an image that'd permit something like dd if=/path/freebsd9-kde.img of=/dev/hd/slice||partition While I /know/ PC-BSD offers something similar, I just thought something geared more towards a FULL FreeBSD experience, that includes pointers to LEARNING FreeBSD -- everything you ever wanted to know about FreeBSD, but were afraid
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, c.hutchins...@yahoo.com wrote: Greetings... On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:18:47 -0400 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a breath to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a hardened FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk I'm wondering if spinning up a live DVD desktop version, using GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD for a test drive. That'd give new ppl to FreeBSD an oportunity to try-before-commit. I'd envision the DVD having links on the desktop to all the important info regarding the setup, and use of a *BSD system -- including the pre-requisits to setup/install. It'd give them a hands on experience, so they'd know in advance, what to expect. It might also be an image that'd permit something like dd if=/path/freebsd9-kde.img of=/dev/hd/slice||partition While I /know/ PC-BSD offers something similar, I just thought
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. possibly but this is what i observe. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Those would not benefit from FreeBSD or anything else. 99.9% of computer users are actually toying with them. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . why do you try to position this OS as windows/Mac OS replacement? Unix will never be and is not designed for it, but for users that want to have real control of computers. Linux got this was and fell. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Absolutely I do NOT have any idea against PC-BSD . My wish is that it Me too. in spite that it is FreeBSD based, it's good it is separate. This means that people that want windows style computing already have something FreeBSD based. So what a problem? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
