Re: On cooperative work [Was: Re: newbus' ivar's limitation..]
On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 9:30 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 8/1/2012 8:36 PM, Warner Losh wrote: I think this proves the point everybody has been saying: you are being needlessly contrary and confrontational. Actually if you take a step back and look at what Arnaud is saying objectively, he's right. If anyone can attend the meeting by simply getting an invitation from a committer, the only purpose the invitation serves is to force the mere-mortal user to kiss someone's ring. That's precisely the kind of elitist crap that I've been railing against for so many years now. OTOH, currently the dev summits generally take place with limited resources, so it's not really possible to have everyone attend. And (TMK) the invitation process is really more like a restaurant with a sign that says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. But on the _other_ other hand, the problem of things being discussed and/or decisions being taken exclusively at the dev summits, especially BSDCAN, has gotten quite bad over the last several years. Even amongst committers, the community has become divided between the haves who can travel to the summit, and the have nots who can't. Note, I'm quite sure that this statement will be met with howls of protest, from the haves, that this isn't the case. Even if they were sincere, it's incredibly easy for the people with the privileges to see their privileged state as normal, and lose sight of how the world looks from the cheap seats. In spite of Kevin's concerns (and I don't know what working groups he's been attending) the IETF model is really a good one to examine here. The majority of the work gets done on the mailing lists, with working group meetings serving as an opportunity for group discussion, presentations, etc. The results of the meetings are then published to the mailing list in the form of minutes, and the final decisions are made in public, on the lists. Another incredibly important feature, the meetings are open to remote participation in the sense that slide decks are published in advance, the meeting audio is streamed live, and there are jabber rooms for remote participants to interact with the people in the meeting. I used to ask the PTB to provide *some* form of remote participation for even a fraction of the events at the dev summit. I don't bother asking anymore because year after year my requests were met with any of: indifference, hostility, shrugged shoulders (that's a hard problem that we can't solve), or embarrassment. Since if the right people around here want something to happen, it happens; I finally came to the conclusion that they didn't want remote participation to happen, so it won't. That's a shame. If the only large, open project you've ever participated in is FreeBSD, what gets done around here feels normal to you. But don't be so quick to dismiss the viewpoints of people who have experience in the wider world. Doug Doug makes some good points. The lack of any opportunity for remote participation in this day and age seems quite odd. Almost all conferences of more that half a dozen people are available remotely, at least for observers. Some are set up for full remote participation including presentations, questions (via chat) and voting/polling. It is surprising to me that something is not available for significant FreeBSD meetings. By the way, WGs that gave me major issues were SNMP and DNS. SNMP was dissolved and the DNS group finally accomplished its job about two years later than it should have by scheduling meetings, still open, outside of IETF meetings and thanks to the stubborn determination of Randy Bush. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: On cooperative work [Was: Re: newbus' ivar's limitation..]
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org wrote: On 8/2/12 9:53 AM, Doug Barton wrote: On 08/02/2012 09:44, Garrett Cooper wrote: The Watson/Losh connection worked really well in BSDCan 2010 :). I wasn't going to mention that, since I didn't want to tell tales out of school. But the fact that remote participation actually was provided for the right people, even though I was told repeatedly that it wasn't possible, actually highlights a big part of the problem. bandwidth was limited and a single 1:1 skype connection was all we really could do. I did broadcast sessions a few years ago using the apple quicktime server but it was a lot of work and I think one person looked at part of one session. Doug First, too many of these posts assume way too much. I don't think anyone should be thinking of any sort of what is commonly called teleconferencing. That would be nice, but is far more complex and expensive, both in bandwidth and equipment, then should be considered as a starting point. I suggest the starting point is a webpage with a link to the slides being presented and a simple audio stream. This is trivially possible with a FreeBSD system and open-source software. A bandwidth of only about 70kbps would be needed. Less with reasonable codec choice. Several streams could be broadcast via a single, unicast stream to a well connected server which woild then stream to end users It might be augmented with jabber other open IM technology with someone at the meeting if procedures for this could be agreed to. (Some vetting is desirable, but will result in calls of censorship.) For small rooms, microphones are fairly easy to handle and one-way streams don't require echo cancellation. As costs for video come down, that might be something to think about some day, but is not required to allow remote attendance. Of course, unless this is publicized, no one will come (which eliminates any technical issues). :-) -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: On cooperative work [Was: Re: newbus' ivar's limitation..]
On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Arnaud Lacombe lacom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Adrian Chadd adr...@freebsd.org wrote: Any interested party is very welcome to approach a developer and get added to the developer summits. Plenty of the people at the most recent developer summit weren't @freebsd.org committers - we had plenty of representation from companies using FreeBSD. If you want to participate, just ask a friendly developer who is going to the developer summit to sponsor you in going. You're pleasant in person, so I'd have no problem sponsoring you if I am going to an event. :) I have a very deep, quasi-philosophical, trouble/problem with that whole idea of sponsor-requirement to attend a such meeting. There is just something which does not feel right about it. From my point of view, this is a matter of common sense, focus is gonna be very narrow and deeply technical. Attendee should go there only if they think they will give positive feedback. As for myself, I would not attend a developer meeting on the fiber-channel over infiniband optimization, but would attend a developer meeting on next-generation mbuf. Now, maybe I'll just push the door of some developer meeting I'd be interested in during next BSDCan, and see what happen :-) The outcome might be interesting to study in a social interaction, prisoner dilemma related, point-of-view. Arnaud, I suggest that you attend some Internet Engineering Task Force Working Group meetings. They are, by rule, open. There is no procedure for excluding anyone. While this may be open, it can be painfully wasteful of time as one person can tie up the entire meeting and ensure nothing is accomplished. It happens all too often and has resulted in working groups being shut down as they have no chance on reaching consensus. One person can't block consensus in theory. but he can tie up so much time that no actual work is done.This is one of the primary reasons I stopped attending IETF meetings as opposed to being active on WG mail lists where a lot of the real work is done and annoying messages can simply be ignored. For a much smaller endeavor, like FreeBSD, this is simply unacceptable as is a brainstorming type of meeting with too many people present. almost all really effective projects are done by one or two people and they need the input of a fairly small set of other concerned people to vet the work. This has worked well, if not perfectly, for FreeBSD and many other projects. It may not be perfect, but trying to accomplish something that comes under the heading of brainstorming in a truly open environment is a wonderful goal, but really is not efficient. And, no, I don't expect you to agree. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [CFC/CFT] large changes in the loader(8) code
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: I would like to point out that all other operating system which has had this precise problem, have solved it by adding a bootfs partition to hold the kernel+modules required to truly understand the disk-layout ? I have seen some form of this solution suggested three times (once by me) and now by someone who I think I can safely states is pretty familiar with geom. So far I have seen no direct response and only a passing comment by jhb that it might be difficult. Sometimes standards need to be broken. Sometimes they such so badly that te entire industry ignores them. But, unless there i a good reason to ignore them, one should fully justify doing so, all the more so when there are obvious ways that non-compliance can lead to disaster. (Think of geli disk there some other software steps on the last block.) Moreover, I think I can see a legitimate case, though I have not tried it. Say I have a FreeBSD system with a large, unused space on the disk and it uses gmirror. I decide that I need to have the ability to occasionally boot Linux on this system (or, even Windows 8). For some reason, and I can think of several, I can't use a virtual system. I create a new partition for the second OS and install it. It knows nothing about the gmirror, so it just uses the disk it is installed on and never touches the metadata. Is this possible? Looks reasonable to me. I really, really feel uncomfortable about all of this. And when people start claiming that, by a very strained interpretation of what appears on the surface to be a clear specification, they are not violating the standard. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [CFC/CFT] large changes in the loader(8) code
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Pawel Jakub Dawidek p...@freebsd.org wrote: On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 01:37:11PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: 4. The gptboot now searches the backup GPT header in the previous sectors, when it finds the GEOM:: signature in the last sector. PMBR code also tries to do the same: common/gpt.c i386/pmbr/pmbr.s GPT really wants the backup header at the last LBA. I know you can set it, but I've interpreted that as a way to see if the primary header is correct or not. [...] My interpretation is different: The way to verify if the header is valid is to check its checksum, not to check if the backup header location in the primary header points at the last LBA. Of course if primary header's checksum is incorrect it is hard to trust that the backup header location is correct. And we need the backup header when the primary header is invalid... [...] It seems to me that GPT tables created in this fashion (inside a GEOM provider) will not work properly with partition editors for other OS's. I'm hesitant to encourage the use of this as I do think putting GPT inside of a gmirror violates the GPT spec. I don't think so. Most common case is to configure partitions on top of a mirror. Mirroring partitions is less common. Mostly because of hardware RAIDs being popular. You don't expect hardware RAID vendor to mirror partitions. Partition editors for other OS's won't work, but only because they don't support gmirror. If they wouldn't recognize and support some hardware (or pseudo-hardware) RAIDs there will be the same problem. In other words, IMHO, our problem is that FreeBSD's boot code doesn't recognize/support gmirror's metadata. What Andrey is proposing is to recognize the metadata and act accordingly - in case of a gmirror we simply need to skip it. In the future we will have the same problem with graid - until we add support for it to the boot code, we won't be able to boot from it. Long ago I saw a proposal to create a dedicated partition on GPT to hold the metadata. With the large number of partitions available on GPT, tying up one just for GEOM seems like a low price and it moves the device GEOM out of the realm of FreeBSD unique and subject to serious issues when/if a disk is shared with some other OS. I have seen little comment on this and have never seen any argument that that it could not work. I think this is an issue that will continue to bite users unless it is fixed. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: ifconfig accepting hostname as ipv4 address
On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Garrett Cooper yaneg...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: input. Moreover, ifconfig em0 some_valid_fqdn/MASK silently ignores it, so you can't set valid CIDR address using this notation. Classful era has ended more than 10 years ago, do we still want to keep this behavior? were not aware of that option, and it is rather stupid option - you should work on addresses not names when configuring network I agree that it's not the best configuration in the world, as it would only work 100% if a machine had proper DNS records or a definitive hosts file. There are already enough bugs with static IP configurations and hostnames as-is *I'm looking at you mountlate* -- no sense to introduce more potentially buggy interoperability that only works in a handful of niche cases. The idea was that you could enter all of the local interface names in /etc/hosts and than just put the names into the ifconfig commands. It was handy for keeping track of what port connected where on systems that had numerous interfaces, though this was more common in the day of async serial lines and modems. I'll admit that I have mixed feelings about its practicality today, though it does not hurt anything, as far as I can tell. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Automatic per-site configuration
On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 1:55 AM, Paul Schenkeveld free...@psconsult.nl wrote: Hi, There must be many others like me who carry a laptop from one site to another every week. Currently I have to work at four different sites. I'd like my FreeBSD 8.2 laptop to automatically start stuff depending on where I boot it and also my personal login environment depends on where I am (PRINTER setting in .profile, clients to automatically start and DISPLAY setting in .xsession, key bindings in .ctwmrc etc.) Until recently I could look at the fully qualified hostname I got from DHCP as all DHCP servers gave me a usable hostname but now I also have to work at various sites where DHCP does not give me a hostname at all. Getting no hostname from DHCP confuses xdm which defaults to 1 requiring me to switch to another virtual console and manually set the hostname to localhost or something. The hostname=foo.bar.tld in rc.conf is absolute, when set the hostname obtained from DHCP is ignored. How do other people solve this? I'd prefer to to be prompted during boot and during login for the site I want to configure for. I have been using Tobias Roth's profile to do this for several years. It is an RC script that runs right after mountcritical and checks for known networks via several techniques. It then does a unionfs mount of a file-backed md on /etc. It contains t least a locations specific rc.conf.local and my contain whatever other files in /etc which you might want per-site, such as resolv.conf or wpa_supplicant.conf. While it has worked (with a two line tweak to /etc/rc.subr to rollback the for support for special processing of rc.d files with a .sh extension), several developers expressed concerns with its viability and I don't think Tobias has done anything with it for some time. I'm not even sure that it is still available. If it is not, I could probably make it, along with the trivial patch to /etc/rc.subr available. For a tool that supposedly would suffer from long-term viability, I have been using it for FreeBSD 5 through 8. I suspect it will work fine in 9, when I get around to trying it. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer - Retired E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: something fails with svn
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:04:30 -0500 From: Jonathan Noack noac...@alumni.rice.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-sta...@freebsd.org On Tue, December 29, 2009 23:33, jhell wrote: On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:18, oliver.pntr@ wrote: Hi list! Something fails, when updated the FreeBSD's svn repo to git. Since yesterday I get this warning: $ git svn rebase ... M sys/boot/pc98/kgzldr/crt.s Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/sys/cddl/contrib/opensolaris Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/sys Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/stable/8/sys Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/user/kmacy/releng_7_2_fcs/sys Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/user/peter/kinfo/sys Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/sys/contrib/dev/acpica Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/sys/contrib/pf Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/stable/8/sys/contrib/pf Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/user/peter/kinfo/sys/contrib/pf r201153 = 2a0c8903699f2e4ff17312c753e335424eeac5e3 (refs/remotes/git-svn) M sys/powerpc/conf/DEFAULTS M sys/sparc64/conf/DEFAULTS M sys/ia64/conf/DEFAULTS M sys/sun4v/conf/DEFAULTS M sys/pc98/conf/DEFAULTS M sys/i386/conf/DEFAULTS M sys/amd64/conf/DEFAULTS Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/sys/cddl/contrib/opensolaris Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/sys/contrib/dev/acpica Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/sys Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/sys/contrib/pf r201164 = c4051399b1b56820b010acba9f5f0e2953f5be70 (refs/remotes/git-svn) M etc/rc.d/named M etc/mtree/BIND.chroot.dist M etc/namedb/named.conf Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/etc r201173 = d70d011b0c38f8a35845a3a63e6ba60f2f04774b (refs/remotes/git-svn) M usr.sbin/zic/Theory M lib/libc/stdtime/tzfile.5 Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/vendor/tzcode/dist/libc/stdtime Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/lib/libc Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/vendor/tzcode/dist/libc Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/head/usr.sbin/zic Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/vendor/tzcode/dist Couldn't find revmap for svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/vendor/tzcode/dist/zic r201184 = 47c9db23979a71f805ff5f11d0574ae1ed83a581 (refs/remotes/git-svn) ... the git config is: [core] repositoryformatversion = 0 filemode = true bare = false logallrefupdates = true [svn-remote svn] url = svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7 fetch = :refs/remotes/git-svn Is this a user error (my), or it's an mismerge or repo fail git / or freebsd's svn? SVN never has problems It's powered by FreeBSD ;) Take a look at your git config. The problem lies there and is very visible. After you are done fixing that re-read the whole email that you posted. I'd appreciate an explanation -- sounds like the OP, myself, and at least one other person haven't figured it out yet. No, the OP has it figured out, so it's just you and a a few others who may have missed the last message in the thread. The problem was a change in the importation of svn into git with the latest update to git on 12/28. It required a modification of the git configuration...otherwise the import failed. I am not git-aware, so I suggest reading the final message from Oliver sent on 1/1 at 18:24 -8. He points out the thread on the git list that explained the work-around: http://lists-archives.org/git/707921-git-svn-memoize-conversion-of-svn-merge-ticket-info-to-git-commit-ranges.html -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: ober...@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: something fails with svn
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:20:54 -0500 From: jhell jh...@dataix.net Sender: owner-freebsd-sta...@freebsd.org On 1/1/2010 6:24 AM, Ed Schouten wrote: * jhelljh...@dataix.net wrote: With those remarks I will leave it up to your honed skills to figure out. If you don't have anything constructive to say, please refrain from responding to any message on these lists. The purpose of these lists is to help each other. You know really... I did not see anything that you have replied with to be constructive criticism At all. And personally if you really want to reply with remarks of Would you mind sharing your findings Sherlock Holmes You can then keep your comments to your self as I do not find them useful and my name is not Sherlock Holmes. Secondly I would expect a much more intelligent remark to come from someone with your background but I guess that comes with age. So my suggestion in constructiveness to you would be to think harder before you critique a post of the very same nature as the one you posted. As regards to the OP the email was meant as a confirmation to the author that the problem did lye on his end and that by paying closer attention to the paths that were displayed in the OP would have revealed the problem. OK. I will try to say something constructive. You seem to think that clever, useless comments make you look good. As someone who has been working with FreeBSD and the FreeBSD community for a long time, all you really do is make yourself look juvenile, arrogant, and rude. You are a prime example of why many people approaching the FreeBSD community for help claim that we are an arrogant and rude bunch. The information content of your messages approaches zero. Maybe the problem is trivial and obvious to you. Maybe it would be to Ed, if he could spot it. Now, if you have never missed an obvious bug until you asked someone why the code would not work, you are either truly exceptional (along with the adjectives listed above) or have written little or no code of your own. Please either provide reasonable assistance when responding to questions or don't reply at all. No one likes a smart ass, plonk -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: ober...@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: bad NFS/UDP performance
David, You beat me to it. Danny, read the iperf man page: -b, --bandwidth n[KM] set target bandwidth to n bits/sec (default 1 Mbit/sec). This setting requires UDP (-u). The page needs updating, though. It should read -b, --bandwidth n[KMG]. It also does NOT require -u. If you use -b, UDP is assumed. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 pgpOo3ttHcEYe.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Laptop suggestions?
From: Achim Patzner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:20:28 +0200 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Smørgrav: I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking about iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me even more. I have been running for the last two years in a ThinkPad T43 and it works fine. ATI graphics work well as does everything except the modem. Since I don't have any access to any dialup network service any more, I don't think I care, although I do carry an old PCMCIA modem card, just in case. Suspend also does not work reliably, but I don't normally suspend my system, anyway, so I don't notice that, either. Atheros wireless, Broadcomm Ethernet, graphics, DRI, USB all just work and have worked since V6.1 days. That said, I suspect that my next laptop with be a Mac with either VMware or Parallels, My wife already runs one and it's pretty nice. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 pgp42tCPCHiOv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:26:16 -0700 From: Rob Lytle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Kevin, The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. I use portupgrade for all ports. i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens so you have to babysit the whole process. Please don't top post! I never said that you should build from ports. I said that you should not use sysinstall to install packages. I said that you can copy the packages from the CDs to /usr/ports/packages/All/ and use 'portinstall -P' to install all of them that are still current and to download those that are not. This simply eliminates all of the disc shuffling. If the nag screens annoy you, use BATCH=yes to build ports with default values. That gives you the same build as the package system uses. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 pgp5wLwjg6IyB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 From: Rob Lytle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi All, I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD install existed, but will do that next time. You call this a flame war? It's been pretty civil and there are no scorch marks on my display. I agree that the disk swapping is not a good thing, but I simply avoid it by never installing packages from sysinstall. I only use sysinstall for FreeBSD. Once I have FreeBSD installed, I update my ports tree with csup (but portsnap is probably a better way) and install ruby and portupgrade. Then I simply install the ports/packages I want using 'portinstall -P'. This assures that I have the latest ports and not something stale. I can speed the process by copying all of the packages from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only have to change CDs a couple of times. 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a dependency is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install gigantic packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one hell of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for FreeBSD 10.0. I have not seen this, but I don't sue sysinstall to install packages/ports. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 pgpYyMQTuWpZp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Call for testers: CVSMode for csup
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:44:59 +0100 From: Ulf Lilleengen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello all, During the past few months, I've implemented CVSMode support for csup. This means one can use csup to fetch complete CVS repositories. However, first I'd like everyone who'd like to help, to try out this patch and test to find bugs and issues with it. Currently, I'm pretty sure it should behave correctly in the normal cases, but therefore needs to be tested by a wider audience. Also, there are some flaws that are noted at the bottom of this e-mail, but the important thing is to test the correctness regarding RCS. For now, I'm including the tokenizer generated by flex since the base system flex won't be good enough yet. Hopefully, it'll get updated soon. Many thanks for working on this! While I greatly appreciate all of the work John Polstra did to create and maintain cvsup over the years, it will be very nice to be able to bid it goodbye. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 pgpjP5A3HlPcV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [patch] enhance powerd(8) to handle max temperature
Garrett Cooper wrote: M. Warner Losh wrote: In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nate Lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : Hajimu UMEMOTO wrote: : On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:31:33 +0200 : Pietro Cerutti [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: : gahr My patch is really just a first draft that I wrote in order to have : gahr feedbacks on the general idea to implement a temperature controlling : gahr system inside powerd, and doesn't implement hysteresis as you noted, and : gahr your feedback is that it's not a good idea, which I respect. : : It is rather backward, IMHO. I did implement a passive cooling : feature as an enhancement of powerd(8) like you did, during initial : phases. Then, I implemented it in our kernel as a result. : : I'll take a look at your patch. Umemoto-san is right in that you really : want the kernel to control cooling. What happens if powerd dies/hangs : and your system burns up? Passive cooling is often a last resort to : keep the system from overheating. I keep getting the system shutting down on my HP by FreeBSD because the temperature exceeds the _CRT value. Maybe there's something wrong with my values, since it happens a lot: hw.acpi.thermal.min_runtime: 0 hw.acpi.thermal.polling_rate: 10 hw.acpi.thermal.user_override: 0 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 0.0C hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.active: -1 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.passive_cooling: 1 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.thermal_flags: 0 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._PSV: 90.0C hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._HOT: -1 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT: 94.0C hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._ACx: 40.0C -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 Note: temperature is always 0.0C. What can I do to help my situation, if I really want the kernel doing the cooling? Warner Wow, something's really wrong with those calculated temperatures. At that value most of the plastic and weaker circuitry should have fused together =\. It would be interesting to see what the values are just after booting, or even earlier if you can get the bios to give temperatures (some MBs have that possibility) Not really. My ThinkPad shows even higher values and I am convinced that they are correct: hw.acpi.thermal.min_runtime: 0 hw.acpi.thermal.polling_rate: 10 hw.acpi.thermal.user_override: 0 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 55.0C hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.active: -1 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.passive_cooling: 1 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.thermal_flags: 0 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._PSV: 94.5C hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._HOT: -1 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT: 99.0C hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._ACx: -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 These are correct. During heavy compute use, I have seen my laptop CPU at 86C. Nothing melts. According to the other five sensors, nothing ouside of the CPU is anywhere near that hot. (It does get hot enough under the heat pipes and sink to be very uncomfortable when used as a literal laptop.) The CPU temperature is measured by a junction in the chip and it is the hottest point in the machine (unless you have a hot GPU). The days of sensors on the mobo that show an external temp are pretty much over as all recent AMD and Intel chips have internal sensors. If you check the spec sheets, many recent chips are rated for operating at internal temps of 100C and higher. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 pgpVIzOJoL4GU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: A smarter mergemaster
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:41:57 -0700 From: Doug Barton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] One of the design decisions that you need to be aware of for this project since day one was to try and balance intelligent behavior and configuration options that would be useful for the very small percentage of the FreeBSD user community that constitutes our developers, versus the needs of the vast majority of regular users who need to be able to use the tool without becoming experts in either our build system, or the tool itself. That is why every single default for mergemaster is to do nothing. It was a purposeful decision to require the user to examine change requests, and make an affirmative choice to approve them. Doug, You just hit on one of my pet peeves with mergemaster! Contrary to what you say: every single default for mergemaster is to do nothing, when a file is found in /etc/rc.d that is not in /usr/src/etc/rc.d, the default is to delete the file in etc. I think that this is a bad thing(tm). I have to restore my profile.sh (which MUST be in /etc/rc.d as it needs to be run before /usr is mounted). I do have an open PR on this (conf/85449), but it does not seem to have gone anywhere other than being assigned to you last Friday. (No, I didn't expect anything to happen this quickly. You just gave me such a perfect opportunity to gripe!) By the way, having run FreeBSD before mergemaster, it's a huge improvement on those ugly days. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Standard sbc and pcm support in GENERIC kernel?
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:08:35 +0100 From: Tijl Coosemans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:58:26 +0100 (MET), Helge Oldach wrote: So yes: some machines require a kernel with PNPBIOS even when sound modules can be kldload'ed. I presume these are typically boxen without knob to disable the PnP BIOS. Still I wonder whether sound on -CURRENT will do on such a box... I have an old toshiba which also needs PNPBIOS in 4-STABLE and when I tried 5-CURRENT sound just worked. Of course that doesn't say anything about your setup... That is almost certainly because of ACPI. It handles peripheral devices quite differently from the former mode and, if it works at all on a given system, should eliminate this Plug-n-Play mess when 5 goes STABLE! ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
