Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years
Marcel Moolenaar wrote: On Jul 8, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Rink Springer wrote: On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:53:45PM +0300, Mike Makonnen wrote: Freddie Cash wrote: The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning, and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS. Actually, this is probably the easiest part (at least for UFS). The libdisk(3) library abstracts most of it out of the installer. ...except that libdisk(3) was supposed to be a temporary hack. I'd really suggest that something cleaner is to be written; libdisk(3) really is not the way to go. Have a look at the code and see for yourself. Yes, libdisk is bad. GEOM_PART has been designed for use by installers. It can be interfaced faily easily. See gpart(8) for example. Is there documentation for the geom_part API somewhere (I couldn't find any) or do I have to look at gpart(8) to figure out how to use it? Is it ok to just use gpart(8) instead of using the geom_part API? Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years
Freddie Cash wrote: The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning, and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS. Actually, this is probably the easiest part (at least for UFS). The libdisk(3) library abstracts most of it out of the installer. Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for post-installation configuration and package installation. This causes no end of trouble for newbies, who seem to view sysinstall as The One True System Admin Tool and try to use it for configuring/installing everything. Too many times, on various BSD forums, I've had to walk people through cleaning up /etc/rc.conf and showing them how to correctly install/configure things (using standard FreeBSD tools), since they used sysinstall for everything. That may be true, but sysinstall did help me do basic, essentical configuration of my very first installed system, and a few installs after that (until I learned about /etc/rc.conf et al). And I never regarded it as The One True Sysadmin Tool, because I did not use Linux distros, thus never got used to their ways. It's just that the simple configuration menu really helped me to get a useful system running in a few minutes (though menu items certainly could make use of more verbose descriptions). And then I could play with the working system and learn ways to configure it. So, IMHO, a basic curses system configuration utility is still needed, and should be run after sysinstall or it should tell the user how to run it (maybe in motd, or sysinstall itself?). Yes, I agree that such a tool is useful, but it does not belong in the installer. In fact, the BSD Installer framework can be used here also to separate the implementation details from the user interface. Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years
Robert Watson wrote: On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Mike Makonnen wrote: The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list after that is setting Date and Time Zone. At that stage the installer will be more or less feature-complete, and I can start code cleanup, getting it to work on additional architectures, etc. I had initially intended to include package installation as one of the criteria for feature-completeness, but after reading through this thread I've decided not to use sysinstall's package installation code and instead write one from scratch once I'm happy with the rest of the installer. Sounds pretty much in line with what I was looking for. However, I think I would like to see it be a bit more complete than sysinstall in the area of geom partition labeling (concat/strip/raid/encryption), and perhaps also ZFS support. I realize that adds complexity a fair amount, but one of the biggest areas of feature lack in sysinstall today is that you are basically stuck with the original BSD partition structure and UFS, whereas we expect increasing numbers of users to deploy ZFS. We don't have boot support currently, but being able to set up /data as a ZFS file system would be great. Today, people have to do an initial install on, say, a small boot partition and then relabel/deal with the rest of the disk, boot a live CD, or worse, discover they have to repartition, which really fails to expose some of the excellent ease-of-use, auto-configuration, etc, features that we otherwise have in this area. I agree absolutely. I should have said more or less feature-complete for a 1.0 release. Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years
Robert Watson wrote: For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of customization during the install -- I configure machines using DHCP, I add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts since my servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem reasonable. I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not to enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means that I find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't want sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in the handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different libdialog interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and express installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a box installed in 5m including actual time to write out the file systems, which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new installer :-). That's the route I'm trying to go with the Sysinstall-BSD Installer mashup. No submenu hell, no XYZ distribution choices, and no extraneous configuration choices. My basic philosophy is that there should be no Basic, Expert, or Custom modes. There should only be one mode with sensible default choices so that the novice user can simply just click Next and the more expert user can modify the default choices and get exactly what he/she wants. Also, the installer's job should only be to install a useable system. Post-installation chores like configuration, adding/removing users, etc should be done by another application. You shouldn't need the installer once you've installed the OS. And oh yeah-- if you can't reliably upgrade from a previous version of the OS, you shouldn't offer the user the option of doing so. Essentially the user only needs to supply 6 things: 1) Where to install to. 2) Where to get installation files from. 3) Network card configuration. 4) Date and Time zone. 5) Hostname. 6)root's password. I'm leaning towards adding a 7th question on whether to enable sshd(8) simply because it's so useful and one of the first things I do after installing a server. Although I didn't want to have the installer setup additional users at first I'm also leaning towards implementing it since enabling sshd(8) without having a non-root user to login as is kinda pointless. Other than that: 1. The stock installation disk should allow the user to easily automate installation (through a configuration file on a flash disk or something). 2. You shouldn't have to edit the source code to make changes to release name, ftp installation sites, etc... 3. Completely divorce the UI from the backend installation logic. So, that all that you need to implement a new UI is boiler plate code to display items sent by the backend and return responses/choices made by the user. Although it needs a few improvements, the BSD Installer pretty much already does this. Status update on the installer I'm woring on: The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list after that is setting Date and Time Zone. At that stage the installer will be more or less feature-complete, and I can start code cleanup, getting it to work on additional architectures, etc. I had initially intended to include package installation as one of the criteria for feature-completeness, but after reading through this thread I've decided not to use sysinstall's package installation code and instead write one from scratch once I'm happy with the rest of the installer. Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fdcheckstd() test bug in execve() (was: Re: Suggested fixes foruidinfo would sleep messages)
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Don Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your patch also looks like it should fix the bug. I prefer my patch, though, because I think the resultant code is structured better and should be easier to understand. For instance, the reason for the assignment to oldcred in the if (error != 0) block in your patch is not immediately obvious. You can remove it, it was part of something else I was working on. I haven't taken a look at your patch. I was working on something else and already had a patch for it, before I saw yours. I sent it as a reference because there was something in the thread about leaking p_args. I really don't care which patch makes it into the tree. If it solves the problem, it solves the problem. There's not much more to it. Cheers, Mike Makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: rc.d boot scripts are ready
[ forgive this breach of net-ettiquette, but this should probably be given a wider audience] On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 05:01:18 -0600 Mike Makonnen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok folks, I have our current rc.* scripts ported to the NetBSD framework. Preliminary testing says it's good to go, so consider this an official call for testers. Gordon has indicated he is ready to start committing it soon. I ask that people start testing it out before he does so. That will enable me to get any remaining bugs fixed before it hits the tree. Once you download and follow the directions at: http://home.pacbell.net/makonnen/rcng.html you can enable it by including rc_ng=YES in your /etc/rc.conf. If you experience any breakage please let me know so I can fix it. I'd appreciate it if people with the appropriate setups especially test the following: ATM ipfilter amd Any comments, constructive criticism welcome. Cheers, Mike Makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: non-root /var/run files (was Re: Sendmail, smmsp, and pid file)
On Mon, 2002-05-27 at 13:38, Gregory Neil Shapiro wrote: pjklist Funny thing about that, I actually created a /var/run/named directory pjklist for just the purpose of running named in a 'sandbox', chowned the pjklist directory bind:bind, and because I forgot to set the pid file path in pjklist named.conf, I see that it seems to write named.pid (owned by pjklist bind:bind) into /var/run without a problem. For named, the initial creation isn't the problem, it's the reloads and restarts: # ndc reload Reload initiated. # tail -2 /var/log/messages May 27 12:36:35 horsey named[142]: couldn't create pid file '/var/run/named.pid' May 27 12:36:35 horsey named[142]: Ready to answer queries. named(8) starts up as root, but demotes itself and chroots to the sandbox immediately after reading the command line. I assume it creates the pid file as soon as it starts up, before it processes its arguments. Using ndc isn't a problem if you use the -c option to point it to the correct socket. Cheers, Mike Makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: gethostbyname2 and AF_INET6
On Sun, 2002-05-12 at 14:16, Peter Haight wrote: Hmm. Looking at the FreeBSD resolver code, it doesn't look like there is some convenient way to do this. Maybe something like, try the lookup, but if we don't get any reply in a short timeout, try an A lookup. If we get a reply to that, then log the site as probably not conforming to the RFC. In mozilla's case, it's not the FreeBSD resolver that's trying ipv6 and then ipv4. Mozilla does it explicitly by calling gethostbyname2 first with AF_INET6, and if that fails with AF_INET. You could just patch it to not make the first gethostbyname2 call. From a quick browse of the source from mozilla.org it's src/misc/prnetdb.c around line # 579 or thereabouts. Cheers, Mike Makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Problems with nge driver and copper GbE cards
On Tue, 2002-04-23 at 13:32, Fengrui Gu wrote: Third, I had trouble to set half-duplex mode on nge0. If I issued command ifconfig nge0 media 1000baseTX mediaopt half-duplex, I got the following error message ifconfig: SIOCSIFMEDIA: Device not configured I don't have trouble to issue command ifconfig nge0 media 1000baseTX mediaopt full-duplex. This I can help you with. the correct way of doing it is disabling full-duplex: # iconfig nge0 media 1000baseTX -mediaopt full-duplex cheers, Mike Makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD 2.2.8 ISO or install media
On Mon, 2002-03-18 at 18:01, Mark Stuhr wrote: Anyone know where I can put my hands on the files that would allow me to setup a 2.2.8 server without having to compile server source code. An ISO image would be best. Do you have your heart set on 2.2.8? We have a 2.2.6 install iso at ftp.svbug.com. cheers, Mike Makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: panic: pmap_enter
On Mon, 2002-03-11 at 18:03, Clark C . Evans wrote: panic: pmap_enter: attempted pmap_enter on 4MB page trace: Debugger panic pmap_enter vm_fault trap_pfault trap calltrap It seems to me that you are showing only the last part of the trace, which shows where a second panic occurred. While that may also be an issue the real reason for the panic occurred earlier. Please post the complete trace. Cheers, Mike Makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: fork rate limit
On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 18:02:13 -0500 Mike Barcroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He should be able to pick his own administrative policy. And what I pointed out was simply another choice. Whether he implements the solution in software or takes the administrative route is obviously his choice. And if other people are interested in the work and want it commited that's fine too. cheers, mike makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: fork rate limit
On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 02:35:46 +0400 Gaspar Chilingarov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've got such situation on our free shellbox set up in the university - some newbies were kidding with old while(1) fork(); attack. Finnaly they got hit by memory limits set up for each user, but anyway they were taking a lot of processor time. I prefer to limit some uid's ability to do many forks in some short period - like 'no more than 200 forks in 10 seconds' or smthng like this. Lock them out of the box for a while. If they do it again ban them forever. The students will learn pretty quickly not to do such things. This means less work for you, and no need to continuously maintain diffs against the kernel sources. IMO it's a *very,very* bad thing to introduce changes into the kernel that might introduce unintended side effects when the problem can be solved administratively. cheers, mike makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: TAILQ
On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 00:57:48 +0100 Aleksander Rozman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have finally started with my work on that protocol I was telling you about (ax.25), but now I have come to a problem. Some of old structs for networking were changed and now they use TAILQ macros. There is almost no man queue(3) Cheers, mikem To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: freebsd in dos extended ?
Why do you want to install it on a DOS extended partition? Just remove that extended patition and install FreeBSD in the unused portion of the disk. Install the FreeBSD boot manager so you can boot into whichever OS you want to. Mike. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
