Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
on 09/06/2012 19:17 Doug Barton said the following: If this were a problem we didn't already have a solution for, I'd be much more interested in what you're proposing. I wonder if you were in the same mindset when you worked on service(8). This is not to doubt service(8) usefulness, of course. Just drawing a parallel. But in no particular order ... 1. This is not something most users would have to do very often, if at all. 1. Let's not generalize. 2. It is not a coincidence that I started this thread on this mailing list. 2. We have a variety of different login managers, several of which do things subtly differently, all of which would need ongoing support. The solution as proposed of now does not require any support or modifications. If people would be willing to implement additional support, then probably they would be doing that because they would want to have that, and to support that. 3. While the changes you're proposing sound simple, the startup stuff has some subtle interactions that we don't like to disrupt without good reason. This is too vague to comment. It's also worth pointing out that if all you need is a shell at boot time, you can still do Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get that, without having to change anything. Thank you for opening my eyes. And sorry for using sarcasm again. No, that's not what I want. I want X to not start. And if you find yourself needing to prevent the login manager from starting more often than not, just disable it by default and start it with 'service blah onestart', or use startx. I do need it that often that I'd have to inconvenience each boot. But I also want convenience those time when I need it. My point being that this doesn't come with zero costs, and has very little benefit. That usually spells no in my book. I understand your point. On the other hand, I find the proposed change to have measurable benefit and insignificant cost. This is yes in my book. Please also note that I am not asking you to do any work. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On 06/13/2012 06:50 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: on 09/06/2012 19:17 Doug Barton said the following: If this were a problem we didn't already have a solution for, I'd be much more interested in what you're proposing. I wonder if you were in the same mindset when you worked on service(8). This is not to doubt service(8) usefulness, of course. Just drawing a parallel. But in no particular order ... 1. This is not something most users would have to do very often, if at all. 1. Let's not generalize. In order to make intelligent decisions about what changes to include and what changes to exclude we have to measure both the costs, and the benefits. Part of measuring the latter is knowing how many of our users will benefit from the proposed change. The percentage of desktop users that we have is (regrettably) a very small percentage of our total demographic. The percentage of those users who would benefit from this proposed change is smaller still. OTOH, every single FreeBSD user is affected by changes to the boot process. Furthermore, we already have a non-trivial public perception that FreeBSD is a hobbyist OS, by and for the developers first and foremost. I don't want to do anything that contributes to that perception without good reason. 2. It is not a coincidence that I started this thread on this mailing list. I get that. But changes we make to the boot process aren't restricted to the members of this mailing list. 2. We have a variety of different login managers, several of which do things subtly differently, all of which would need ongoing support. The solution as proposed of now does not require any support or modifications. Which solution are you discussing? Marcin's? I think his idea has a lot of merit, but in reference to your particular use case (inhibiting X from starting) it requires the user to know which particular knob (or knobs) is responsible. That's not necessarily a show-stopper, and people who are likely to need this are likely to be able to figure that out. If you're talking about a different proposed solution, please clarify. If people would be willing to implement additional support, then probably they would be doing that because they would want to have that, and to support that. The latter bit is what I'm most concerned about, especially long term. 3. While the changes you're proposing sound simple, the startup stuff has some subtle interactions that we don't like to disrupt without good reason. This is too vague to comment. That doesn't make the point invalid. :) If we have a specific solution that people are excited about, with patches, I'm happy to give it a more detailed review (along with freebsd-rc@ of course). It's also worth pointing out that if all you need is a shell at boot time, you can still do Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get that, without having to change anything. Thank you for opening my eyes. And sorry for using sarcasm again. FWIW I realize that *you* know that already. What I'm trying to do is to get an idea of what people want to accomplish, and make sure that we're not reinventing the wheel. No, that's not what I want. I want X to not start. Thanks for clarifying. And if you find yourself needing to prevent the login manager from starting more often than not, just disable it by default and start it with 'service blah onestart', or use startx. I do need it that often that I'd have to inconvenience each boot. But I also want convenience those time when I need it. My point being that this doesn't come with zero costs, and has very little benefit. That usually spells no in my book. I understand your point. On the other hand, I find the proposed change to have measurable benefit and insignificant cost. This is yes in my book. I think that we disagree on both the relative costs and the relative benefits. That's why I wanted to express my concerns so that others could weigh in. Please also note that I am not asking you to do any work. That sounds great in theory. However given the amount of time that I've spent on refining the boot process, as well as trying to get the boot time down as low as possible; and given the overwhelming importance of the boot process to the OS generally, I have concerns about what you're proposing. Just to be clear, I'm not saying, NO!, I'm saying that if we're going to make changes in this area that we need to understand the landscape very well before we move forward. My other concern, to be perfectly blunt, is that this project not become something where changes are made, and then when users report problems with those changes they are told that they are on their own to come up with the debugging, analysis, and/or fixes for those problems. If you're saying that resources exist to support the design, implementation, testing, commit to HEAD, support in HEAD, MFC(s), and support in the older branches; then I'm glad to hear that. If we don't have those resources, that's a factor we
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
on 09/06/2012 17:45 Marcin Wisnicki said the following: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 12:57:41 +0300, Gleb Kurtsou wrote: On (07/06/2012 11:56), Andriy Gapon wrote: A user doesn't have to select the option unless he needs to. A simple user can just reboot without selecting the option to get back his X. A user doesn't have to learn anything about the code, just about kenv and magic inhibit_gui variable. What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart That's trivial to implement: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-November/079241.html Still applies with minor reject that can be ignored or easily resolved. It also brings support for overriding path to rc.conf, allowing multiple boot configurations. Hey, this is very nice, thank you! And developed almost 5 years ago too. I wonder what rc@ guys would think about committing this. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 07:28:50AM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: on 09/06/2012 04:16 Jason Hellenthal said the following: runlevel support might be a better solution so it does not differ that much from what other systems do and would be easy for people to grasp. Patches are welcome, as always. I agree... ;) How about generic runlevel support through kenv instead ? Set runlevel by default to 3 , where just like any other system is multiuser, and provide support in the rc scripts to look at kenv. While documenting runlevel in init(8)'s man page since that is where most people look for these things. This way a we could define a while bunch of things around generic runlevels and if perhaps runlevels ever make it into FreeBSD the support for them will already exist. -- - (2^(N-1)) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 12:57:41 +0300, Gleb Kurtsou wrote: On (07/06/2012 11:56), Andriy Gapon wrote: A user doesn't have to select the option unless he needs to. A simple user can just reboot without selecting the option to get back his X. A user doesn't have to learn anything about the code, just about kenv and magic inhibit_gui variable. What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart That's trivial to implement: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-November/079241.html Still applies with minor reject that can be ignored or easily resolved. It also brings support for overriding path to rc.conf, allowing multiple boot configurations. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On 06/07/2012 11:10, Andriy Gapon wrote: on 07/06/2012 17:29 Doug Barton said the following: On 06/07/2012 02:57 AM, Gleb Kurtsou wrote: What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart Why not just: boot single user fsck -p mount -a $EDITOR /etc/rc.conf[.local] Ah, right. Why provide a way to do something using one command at one prompt (or even toggling a menu option using a single keystroke) when you can already do the same using multiple commands at multiple places (and also trying to not forget to undo your changes later)... I realize you were being sarcastic, but your question deserves an answer. If this were a problem we didn't already have a solution for, I'd be much more interested in what you're proposing. But in no particular order ... 1. This is not something most users would have to do very often, if at all. 2. We have a variety of different login managers, several of which do things subtly differently, all of which would need ongoing support. 3. While the changes you're proposing sound simple, the startup stuff has some subtle interactions that we don't like to disrupt without good reason. It's also worth pointing out that if all you need is a shell at boot time, you can still do Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get that, without having to change anything. And if you find yourself needing to prevent the login manager from starting more often than not, just disable it by default and start it with 'service blah onestart', or use startx. My point being that this doesn't come with zero costs, and has very little benefit. That usually spells no in my book. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On 06/09/12 10:37, Jason Hellenthal wrote: On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 07:28:50AM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: on 09/06/2012 04:16 Jason Hellenthal said the following: runlevel support might be a better solution so it does not differ that much from what other systems do and would be easy for people to grasp. Patches are welcome, as always. I agree... ;) How about generic runlevel support through kenv instead ? I've wondered whether it would be more BSD-sh to specify a way to tell init, Tell /etc/rc to run the scripts listed by rcorder up until we get NETWORKING. (Or SERVERS or whatever dependency you need, or Stop just before LOGIN.) -- George Mitchell Set runlevel by default to 3 , where just like any other system is multiuser, and provide support in the rc scripts to look at kenv. While documenting runlevel in init(8)'s man page since that is where most people look for these things. This way a we could define a while bunch of things around generic runlevels and if perhaps runlevels ever make it into FreeBSD the support for them will already exist. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On 7 June 2012 16:12, Garrett Cooper yaneg...@gmail.com wrote: I've run into _multiple_ scenarios where this isn't possible because the terminal settings are screwed up in single user mode, and had to resort to `sed -i '' `. ed is the standard text editor Aled ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 01:06:09PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: on 07/06/2012 12:57 Gleb Kurtsou said the following: What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart I think that this is an excellent idea. runlevel support might be a better solution so it does not differ that much from what other systems do and would be easy for people to grasp. -- - (2^(N-1)) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
on 09/06/2012 04:16 Jason Hellenthal said the following: runlevel support might be a better solution so it does not differ that much from what other systems do and would be easy for people to grasp. Patches are welcome, as always. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 10:45:26AM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: It's long been a wish of mine to have an ability to decide at boot time that a system should boot in console-only mode. That is, that no graphics/X applications like e.g. xdm/kdm/gdm are automatically started even when they are configured to do so. Here is my attempt at implementing that: https://gitorious.org/~avg/freebsd/avgbsd/commit/96f7051d63d4286ef6f0196d241e7855338a6ed7?format=patch All the option does at boot time is setting of 'inhibit_gui' variable for kernel environment. I envision that this variable could be properly and gracefully handled in various startup scripts and/or application startup logic. But to ensure that the option is always honored I've also added ultimate protection to syscons that prohibits KDSETMODE/KD_GRAPHICS ioctl. This is too much, IMO. I understand why you may want to disable auto-start of login manager, but preventing a user from running X at all until she learns about kenv -u _and_ obscure code somewhere in the kernel, is unreasonable. pgpGQ5pmj2pYb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
on 07/06/2012 11:47 Konstantin Belousov said the following: On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 10:45:26AM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: It's long been a wish of mine to have an ability to decide at boot time that a system should boot in console-only mode. That is, that no graphics/X applications like e.g. xdm/kdm/gdm are automatically started even when they are configured to do so. Here is my attempt at implementing that: https://gitorious.org/~avg/freebsd/avgbsd/commit/96f7051d63d4286ef6f0196d241e7855338a6ed7?format=patch All the option does at boot time is setting of 'inhibit_gui' variable for kernel environment. I envision that this variable could be properly and gracefully handled in various startup scripts and/or application startup logic. But to ensure that the option is always honored I've also added ultimate protection to syscons that prohibits KDSETMODE/KD_GRAPHICS ioctl. This is too much, IMO. I understand why you may want to disable auto-start of login manager, but preventing a user from running X at all until she learns about kenv -u _and_ obscure code somewhere in the kernel, is unreasonable. A user doesn't have to select the option unless he needs to. A simple user can just reboot without selecting the option to get back his X. A user doesn't have to learn anything about the code, just about kenv and magic inhibit_gui variable. IMO. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On (07/06/2012 11:56), Andriy Gapon wrote: on 07/06/2012 11:47 Konstantin Belousov said the following: On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 10:45:26AM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: It's long been a wish of mine to have an ability to decide at boot time that a system should boot in console-only mode. That is, that no graphics/X applications like e.g. xdm/kdm/gdm are automatically started even when they are configured to do so. Here is my attempt at implementing that: https://gitorious.org/~avg/freebsd/avgbsd/commit/96f7051d63d4286ef6f0196d241e7855338a6ed7?format=patch All the option does at boot time is setting of 'inhibit_gui' variable for kernel environment. I envision that this variable could be properly and gracefully handled in various startup scripts and/or application startup logic. But to ensure that the option is always honored I've also added ultimate protection to syscons that prohibits KDSETMODE/KD_GRAPHICS ioctl. This is too much, IMO. I understand why you may want to disable auto-start of login manager, but preventing a user from running X at all until she learns about kenv -u _and_ obscure code somewhere in the kernel, is unreasonable. A user doesn't have to select the option unless he needs to. A simple user can just reboot without selecting the option to get back his X. A user doesn't have to learn anything about the code, just about kenv and magic inhibit_gui variable. What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart Thanks, Gleb. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
on 07/06/2012 12:57 Gleb Kurtsou said the following: What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart I think that this is an excellent idea. -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On 06/07/2012 02:57 AM, Gleb Kurtsou wrote: What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart Why not just: boot single user fsck -p mount -a $EDITOR /etc/rc.conf[.local] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 06/07/2012 02:57 AM, Gleb Kurtsou wrote: What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart Why not just: boot single user fsck -p mount -a $EDITOR /etc/rc.conf[.local] I've run into _multiple_ scenarios where this isn't possible because the terminal settings are screwed up in single user mode, and had to resort to `sed -i '' `. -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Gleb Kurtsou gleb.kurt...@gmail.com wrote: On (07/06/2012 11:56), Andriy Gapon wrote: on 07/06/2012 11:47 Konstantin Belousov said the following: On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 10:45:26AM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: It's long been a wish of mine to have an ability to decide at boot time that a system should boot in console-only mode. That is, that no graphics/X applications like e.g. xdm/kdm/gdm are automatically started even when they are configured to do so. Here is my attempt at implementing that: https://gitorious.org/~avg/freebsd/avgbsd/commit/96f7051d63d4286ef6f0196d241e7855338a6ed7?format=patch All the option does at boot time is setting of 'inhibit_gui' variable for kernel environment. I envision that this variable could be properly and gracefully handled in various startup scripts and/or application startup logic. But to ensure that the option is always honored I've also added ultimate protection to syscons that prohibits KDSETMODE/KD_GRAPHICS ioctl. This is too much, IMO. I understand why you may want to disable auto-start of login manager, but preventing a user from running X at all until she learns about kenv -u _and_ obscure code somewhere in the kernel, is unreasonable. A user doesn't have to select the option unless he needs to. A simple user can just reboot without selecting the option to get back his X. A user doesn't have to learn anything about the code, just about kenv and magic inhibit_gui variable. What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart It needs to be profiled, but I would be curious what the slowdown would be for this change. Also, it sort of introduces a fun chicken and egg problem with sourcing rc.conf files, like I discovered recently at $JOB. Thanks, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On 06/07/2012 08:12 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: I've run into _multiple_ scenarios where this isn't possible because the terminal settings are screwed up in single user mode, and had to resort to `sed -i '' `. If that happens, a) report it! SUM is a very important part of FreeBSD, and it needs to always work. b) There were problems after the cons25 - xterm conversion that have almost all been fixed nowadays c) Try using a simpler shell, like /bin/sh, or even /rescue/sh d) Obviously don't try to do SUM with a shell that is not compiled static hth, Doug ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
on 07/06/2012 17:29 Doug Barton said the following: On 06/07/2012 02:57 AM, Gleb Kurtsou wrote: What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable options in rc.conf? I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set rc.slim_enable=no -- overrides slim_enable=yes in rc.conf Similarly rc.pf_enable=no Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm forcestart Why not just: boot single user fsck -p mount -a $EDITOR /etc/rc.conf[.local] Ah, right. Why provide a way to do something using one command at one prompt (or even toggling a menu option using a single keystroke) when you can already do the same using multiple commands at multiple places (and also trying to not forget to undo your changes later)... -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode
On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 10:45:26AM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: It's long been a wish of mine to have an ability to decide at boot time that a system should boot in console-only mode. That is, that no graphics/X applications like e.g. xdm/kdm/gdm are automatically started even when they are configured to do so. Here is my attempt at implementing that: https://gitorious.org/~avg/freebsd/avgbsd/commit/96f7051d63d4286ef6f0196d241e7855338a6ed7?format=patch All the option does at boot time is setting of 'inhibit_gui' variable for kernel environment. I like this idea. rc(8) sets rc_fast=yes when the system boots, so it would be possible to extend the scripts that start a desktop manager can use a code like this: if [ -n $rc_fast -a `kenv inhibit_gui 2 /dev/null` = 1 ]; then echo Console only mode, $name not started exit 0 fi Then the user can still start the DM manually by issuing service $name start. pgp6ER3Vv2RPM.pgp Description: PGP signature
