Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
great idea! On Sat, 5 May 2012, Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote: Find some mailing lists that have nothing to do with FreeBSD, and barrage them with spam promoting FreeBSD. :-) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Today, FreeBSD works on some of the most powerful equipment in the world. Equipment where price is hardly an issue. We have a great many to thank for that. and works on low end hardware. The same FreeBSD and it can be tuned well for both cases. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Just ensure that FreeBSD is the ideal distro for downloading and watching videos. All sorts of videos... And some standard User-Software like Gnumeric and Open Office would be welcome too. Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Find some mailing lists that have nothing to do with FreeBSD, and barrage them with spam promoting FreeBSD. :-) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
As someone pointed out when this thread started, it's off-topic for hackers. Please take it to advocacy. -- It's always a long day; 86400 doesn't fit into a short. Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
I think The power to serve, pretty much sums it up nicely. :-) that simple. While whom/what it serve it depends. But it have to serve someone needs. Contrary to computer owner being a server for someone else needs :) now. While I know this probably seems pointless, based on your observation(s). I can't help but wonder if initiating a BSD awareness day, might not be a bad idea. I can see when i started to use unix systems in 1996 in poland internet was a rare thing. And i only knew linux copied from someone - i was not aware of *BSD in spite it was superior. Linux was mentioned very often in computer newspapers. *BSD - not at all. then i got too dependent from linux but finally removed it altogether - not because FreeBSD was promoted harder but because i knew about it's existence AT ALL and because i found it - by testing and using - to be far better than linux. Since most people today have internet connectivity, i don't think any special work is needed. People that use overadvertised linux for real, and want performance will try other systems quickly. I even think too much advertisement is done today. For example - desktop environments are overadvertised, both they are not useful for real work and are not a special feature of FreeBSD, just like over 1 programs that are available in /usr/ports I don't really understand why new FreeBSD version is advertised, they say that there is some version of kde, and gnome? They are NOT A PART OF FREEBSD. Or if you think they are, then why not just do attach whole /usr/ports/INDEX-8 file to the advertisement? ZFS is overadvertised but fortunately UFS is still default. UFS is great feature of FreeBSD, it basically never fails, and performance (when configured properly) is really great. Actually FreeBSD is already very well known where performance and quality counts. And it is incorporated in a lot of devices/market solutions/services. Linux is everywhere in commodity gadgets as performance and quality is not important, only to sell as much as possible and forget. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Not really, no. I was referring to the practice of starting a gazillion services by default, including dbus, avahi, ftp and http services, file sharing components, and all the rest of the stuff that is now commonly installed as part of a Linux desktop. SELinux is indeed one form of hardening, but I wasn't referring specifically to it; exactly the opposite, in fact. Without running unneeded things there is no need to harden. In spite of FreeBSD having quite a lot of extra security features, i don't really use more than standard unix security and jails, it is not really needed. FreeBSD do this (almost) right - default rc.conf doesn't ruch much, but still too much. no idea why inetd is run by default, with no services but anyway. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
*WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? GPL vs BSDL ? (Create a GPLed BSD and see if it takes off.) the obese cartoon penguin? Do most people actually prefer the lower quality product? Popularity is inversly proportional to quality in many areas, not just OSes. marketing? Is there something that Linux does better than the BSDs, that many people care about? -- Is there a list somewhere of companies/organizations that contribute to FreeBSD? A list of those that freeload (Use FreeBSD as part of their product but do not contribute back.)? Do we need to recrute a diplomatic fund raiser person to shake the bushes? -- Are the resources we do have being used as effectively as possible? Looks to me like funds are being spent on things that would likely happen anyway (because they are fun, would result in a paper, or are commercially useful), while things that need doing but aren't always fun (such as fixing PRs) don't get funding and never get done. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On 05/04/12 15:11, Dieter BSD wrote: *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? Linux is popular because of RedHat. Corporate executives like to pay for software because it shifts responsibility away from them in the event that something goes wrong. If something goes wrong with RHEL, the company's legal department can hold RedHat responsible. If something goes wrong with FreeBSD, the board will hold the executive responsible. This makes paying RedHat for Linux very attractive and by extension, it makes Linux very popular. If you want BSD to surpass Linux in popularity, you are going to have to start a company like BSDi, except this time it will need to avoid a crippling lawsuit. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, 04 May 2012 15:11:10 -0400 Dieter BSD dieter...@engineer.com wrote: *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? My newsbyte answer is: BSD is Unix for people who love quality software. Linux is Unix for people who hate Microsoft. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. Expanded, most linux distros make gaining users more important than software quality. So things are made as easy as possible for the user: you install everything by default, configure everything for them, possibly even make it hard for them to break things by misconfiguring something. BSD makes software quality more important than gaining users. Just look at where there effort goes! Frankly, while I'd love to see BSD be more popular, I'd rather it not happen at the expense of the software quality. This shows up in *all* the software. If I install third party software from the BSD package system, it usually shows up with the default config from the original author. Any changes are usually the result of working around BSD not being the author's development system. On Linux systems, I find that stuff comes out of the box with some non-standard default configuration designed to make things easier. So I have to spend time figuring out what was changed, and why, and how to put it back. In some cases (like bash), it's easier to punt on the package and replace it with different software (as in: how do you *turn off* the color ls in bash on RHEL!?). mike -- Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On May 4, 2012, at 8:42 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: On Fri, 04 May 2012 15:11:10 -0400 Dieter BSD dieter...@engineer.com wrote: *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? My newsbyte answer is: BSD is Unix for people who love quality software. Linux is Unix for people who hate Microsoft. My favorite comparison-quote is from the former (x3) CEO of our company from way-way back (circa '95-'96): ``Linux is for Windows users that want to learn UNIX. FreeBSD is for UNIX users that want to use affordable hardware.'' _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On May 4, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Devin Teske wrote: On May 4, 2012, at 8:42 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: On Fri, 04 May 2012 15:11:10 -0400 Dieter BSD dieter...@engineer.com wrote: *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? My newsbyte answer is: BSD is Unix for people who love quality software. Linux is Unix for people who hate Microsoft. My favorite comparison-quote is from the former (x3) CEO of our company from way-way back (circa '95-'96): ``Linux is for Windows users that want to learn UNIX. FreeBSD is for UNIX users that want to use affordable hardware.'' (adding to the above) Which I don't necessarily think accurately describes FreeBSD today; that quote was circa pre 1.0-R (ref) to 2.x. Today, FreeBSD works on some of the most powerful equipment in the world. Equipment where price is hardly an issue. We have a great many to thank for that. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? Judging from the amount of effort it takes to harden a system that already starts a thousand services (typical desktop Linux scenario these days), and the number of times I've seen this sort of customization cause even more headaches, I'd say this is a slightly exaggerated statement. You are right that a plain user does not care about why their CD-ROM is not accessible after installation, but there are two different ways to approach this: - Install and enable everything by default, hoping that nothing bad happens when an unused service is exploitable. - Install a minimal system and build from there. Most Linux distributions pick the first option. _Some_ Linux distributions pick the second option (e.g. Gentoo). The default FreeBSD installation uses the second option. PC-BSD leans towards the first option, and does a really good job at making a BSD desktop 'accessible' to what is usually called the average user. So it all depends on what you want to do, and there _are_ options that cover both cases for either Linux or BSD. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On 05/02/12 04:55, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? Judging from the amount of effort it takes to harden a system that already starts a thousand services (typical desktop Linux scenario these days), and the number of times I've seen this sort of customization cause even more headaches, I'd say this is a slightly exaggerated statement. You might be thinking of SELinux, which is not the only option for hardening. The Gentoo Hardened project offers multiple options for hardening, of which SELinux is only one: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/ http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/primer.xml The PaX/GrSecurity patchset for Linux provides strong ASLR to the both the kernel and userland. To my knowledge, the only BSD that supports ASLR is OpenBSD. You are right that a plain user does not care about why their CD-ROM is not accessible after installation, but there are two different ways to approach this: - Install and enable everything by default, hoping that nothing bad happens when an unused service is exploitable. - Install a minimal system and build from there. Most Linux distributions pick the first option. _Some_ Linux distributions pick the second option (e.g. Gentoo). You might be thinking of Gentoo Linux, rather than Gentoo. The term Gentoo also covers Gentoo/FreeBSD and Gentoo Prefix. Gentoo/FreeBSD replaces the Linux kernel and GNU userland with FreeBSD while Gentoo Prefix provides a userland package manager to UNIX-compatible systems: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/fbsd/index.xml http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/prefix/ Neither Gentoo/FreeBSD nor Gentoo Prefix are Linux distributions, so it would be better to refer to Gentoo Linux when talking about the Gentoo Linux distribution. Also, Gentoo's minimalist design is not a form of hardening provided by the Gentoo Hardened project. Most Gentoo Hardened users would not consider it to be hardening. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Richard Yao r...@cs.stonybrook.edu wrote: On 05/02/12 04:55, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: Judging from the amount of effort it takes to harden a system that already starts a thousand services (typical desktop Linux scenario these days), and the number of times I've seen this sort of customization cause even more headaches, I'd say this is a slightly exaggerated statement. You might be thinking of SELinux, which is not the only option for hardening. Not really, no. I was referring to the practice of starting a gazillion services by default, including dbus, avahi, ftp and http services, file sharing components, and all the rest of the stuff that is now commonly installed as part of a Linux desktop. SELinux is indeed one form of hardening, but I wasn't referring specifically to it; exactly the opposite, in fact. You are right that a plain user does not care about why their CD-ROM is not accessible after installation, but there are two different ways to approach this: - Install and enable everything by default, hoping that nothing bad happens when an unused service is exploitable. - Install a minimal system and build from there. Most Linux distributions pick the first option. _Some_ Linux distributions pick the second option (e.g. Gentoo). You might be thinking of Gentoo Linux, rather than Gentoo. The term Gentoo also covers Gentoo/FreeBSD and Gentoo Prefix. Gentoo/FreeBSD replaces the Linux kernel and GNU userland with FreeBSD while Gentoo Prefix provides a userland package manager to UNIX-compatible systems: Gentoo Linux is what I was talking about. It's one of the distributions that does lean towards the install only what is necessary side of the spectrum. The main point is not whether Gentoo/Linux or Gentoo/BSD is the best color for the particular bikeshed though. It was that one _has_ the option both with Linux and BSD as a base to implement both types of installations. Hardening can be either an install-time property or an after-effect. It's really not OS-dependent at all. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Advertising that it exists and is used is more important than saying x sucks, use y instead. This is the tone I was getting from the previous response and this is what I discourage as well as others on the list. It was just an example. I don't use FreeBSD because Oracle Solaris sucks but because it works best for me. No other unix not only is as fast but allows so easy tuning like compiling own kernel and configuring things. What do you prefer - few files in /etc, like rc.conf to configure almost everything in base system (+starting installed ports), or thousands of files in modern linux distro or oracle solaris? Sorry but when i HAD to deal with linux i just deleted most of /etc and write my own /etc/rc. Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are just useless. Linux is trendy and quality is second thing, but it had to be everywhere including things that should not have OS at all, like VoIP gateway. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Advertising that it exists and is used is more important than saying x sucks, use y instead. This is the tone I was getting from the previous response and this is what I discourage as well as others on the list. It was just an example. I don't use FreeBSD because Oracle Solaris sucks but because it works best for me. No other unix not only is as fast but allows so easy tuning like compiling own kernel and configuring things. What do you prefer - few files in /etc, like rc.conf to configure almost everything in base system (+starting installed ports), or thousands of files in modern linux distro or oracle solaris? Sorry but when i HAD to deal with linux i just deleted most of /etc and write my own /etc/rc. Joe user, students, etc really don't care about the underlying system as long as the GUIs obscure this. OSX is a prime example of this (the OSX CLI has sucked for a long time). Only sysadmin and CLI power users care how things like this are organized. I think this is the usability boat that's been missed for a while on *nix. Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are just useless. Linux is trendy and quality is second thing, but it had to be everywhere including things that should not have OS at all, like VoIP gateway. Sun isn't Oracle, so I don't expect them to put forth a decent general purpose OS offering. As far as Linux is concerned, in some ways it's good Linux has become a niche OS, and in some ways it's bad, but you can't take back the fact that it is what it is right now. Thanks, -Garrett___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Joe user, students, etc really don't care about the underlying system as long as the GUIs obscure this. Indeed you are right. Actually they don't completely know what happens. This is normal, but the poor word in your sentence is students. Unfortunately, from my observations, this is completely true. OSX is a prime example of this (the OSX CLI has sucked for a long time). Only sysadmin and CLI power users care how things like this are organized. I think this is the usability boat that's been missed for a while on *nix. True. And my point is - don't promote FreeBSD in that area. Mac OS X, Windows, Modern linux distros will always be better than FreeBSD when judged by joe user who owns computer. Yes i used parantheses in owns because he/she don't really own her computer, just paid for it and is enslaved. FreeBSD can be great when used by joe user BUT when joe user does not install it, configure it or know root password at all, but QUALIFIED sysadmin configured everything for joe. Joe may use thin client to connect to timesharing server with FreeBSD and this is my favourite example. (actually i use X terminal made from obsolete PCs line pentium 133-500MHz PII, which are intentionally downclocked and fans removed, disks removed - SILENCE, low power). Even with trendy GUI (but configured by root user, not joe user) it works quick, fast and predictable with cost of servicing close to zero. This is right target for FreeBSD advertising IMHO, but not personal computer market. Again i used parantheses for personal computer as for many years users don't completely know what is going on on their computers and are owned by them. Do you now finally understood what i mean and why i am against your kind of promotion? You won't promote Ferrari for people that now use everyday small city car. Inexperienced driver can only kill him/herself given top line Ferrari, and trying to make Ferrari to by easy to use will badly reduce it's performance. Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are just useless. Linux is trendy and quality is second thing, but it had to be everywhere including things that should not have OS at all, like VoIP gateway. Sun isn't Oracle, so I don't expect them to put forth a decent general purpose OS offering. As far as Linux is concerned, in some ways it's good Linux has become a niche OS, and in some ways it's bad, but you can't take back the fact that it is what it is right now. Sun IS Oracle from some time. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Tue, 1 May 2012 09:26:30 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Joe user, students, etc really don't care about the underlying system as long as the GUIs obscure this. Indeed you are right. Actually they don't completely know what happens. This is normal, but the poor word in your sentence is students. Unfortunately, from my observations, this is completely true. OSX is a prime example of this (the OSX CLI has sucked for a long time). Only sysadmin and CLI power users care how things like this are organized. I think this is the usability boat that's been missed for a while on *nix. True. And my point is - don't promote FreeBSD in that area. Mac OS X, Windows, Modern linux distros will always be better than FreeBSD when judged by joe user who owns computer. Yes i used parantheses in owns because he/she don't really own her computer, just paid for it and is enslaved. FreeBSD can be great when used by joe user BUT when joe user does not install it, configure it or know root password at all, but QUALIFIED sysadmin configured everything for joe. Joe may use thin client to connect to timesharing server with FreeBSD and this is my favourite example. (actually i use X terminal made from obsolete PCs line pentium 133-500MHz PII, which are intentionally downclocked and fans removed, disks removed - SILENCE, low power). Even with trendy GUI (but configured by root user, not joe user) it works quick, fast and predictable with cost of servicing close to zero. This is right target for FreeBSD advertising IMHO, but not personal computer market. Again i used parantheses for personal computer as for many years users don't completely know what is going on on their computers and are owned by them. I think The power to serve, pretty much sums it up nicely. :-) Do you now finally understood what i mean and why i am against your kind of promotion? You won't promote Ferrari for people that now use everyday small city car. Inexperienced driver can only kill him/herself given top line Ferrari, and trying to make Ferrari to by easy to use will badly reduce it's performance. Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are just useless. Linux is trendy and quality is second thing, but it had to be everywhere including things that should not have OS at all, like VoIP gateway. Sun isn't Oracle, so I don't expect them to put forth a decent general purpose OS offering. As far as Linux is concerned, in some ways it's good Linux has become a niche OS, and in some ways it's bad, but you can't take back the fact that it is what it is right now. While I know this probably seems pointless, based on your observation(s). I can't help but wonder if initiating a BSD awareness day, might not be a bad idea. I can see where, if targeted at students, this might be especially effective -- this IS where BSD all started, wasn't it? :-) just my $0.02 :-) Sun IS Oracle from some time. Right you are!. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Apr 29, 2012, at 10:16 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I prefer less advanced FreeBSD Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. +1 Leave mudslinging to marketing and politicians :).. as for now you and few other people work hard to DE-promote FreeBSD from those few people that are able to make use of it but yet didn't. I'm sorry… I didn't realize that resorting to petty tactics to achieve one's goals was the way to do things. If it's better, the proof will be in the pudding and people will flock to it (as another old adage goes -- if you build it, they will come): plain and simple. Or more exact - delay, because those that need it sooner or later will start using it. Advertising that it exists and is used is more important than saying x sucks, use y instead. This is the tone I was getting from the previous response and this is what I discourage as well as others on the list. If you can do it in a non-confrontational way, I'd say do it. Otherwise, please don't force your opinion down others' throats. Thanks, -Garrett___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Hi, On Monday 30 April 2012 12:14:39 Wojciech Puchar wrote: Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this is the most advanced unix from Oracle. I prefer less advanced FreeBSD Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. So? I also wonder? He did not write this 'most advanced unix; but showed only what they result of their efforts was. Why blame the messenger for the bad message? Yes, I have had to work with this kind of software for some time. Erich ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 09:08:18PM -0400, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:24 PM, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, c.hutchins...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm wondering if spinning up a live DVD desktop version, using GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD for a test drive ... There is such a very nice distribution : http://ghostbsd.org/ Also, freesbie.org The above link is not complete . The freesbie.org is working as follows : http://www.freesbie.org/ Others : http://www.desktopbsd.net/ There are some links in the page : http://www.livebsd.org/ FreesBIE and DesktopBSD are lng dead Why don't we add a link to PC-BSD and maybe GhostBSD (though I read at [1] that it needs to be polished more to be a user-friendly distro) to the LATEST RELEASES section on freebsd.org? That way we could promote FreeBSD on the desktop, have more people try and run PC-BSD and keep simple how do I set up a desktop? questions from freebsd-questions@ [1] http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/02/02/ghostbsd-2-5-review/ pgpdb5sB6rPW6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 07:39:25AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . why do you try to position this OS as windows/Mac OS replacement? Unix will never be and is not designed for it, but for users that want to have real control of computers. Mac OSD _is_ a UNIX: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/4376 So, why not use a UNIX on the Desktop? :) pgpDJ64oaHgwh.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
There is such a very nice distribution : http://ghostbsd.org/ Also, freesbie.org That's great - there are distributions with ready to use desktop environments etc. etc. while the main one is always the same. Everyone gets what he/she needs. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each release of it ) . Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this is the most advanced unix from Oracle. I prefer less advanced FreeBSD ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Don't really understand you. Basically everything that is open source compiles under FreeBSD out of the box (or out of ports) or can be ported without big work. Even if you have binary only 99% of the time linux emulation works great (for me it worked 100% of time). And yes - linux is faster if you run one program at a time and measures how fast openoffice loads. When you get to make greatly loaded server you will end it buying 50 servers to split high load or install FreeBSD. Everyone have a choice. I really can't imagine serving average sized company using one server running linux, with file transfers going over gigabit ethernet from multiple workstations, AND with everyone using his/her mail AND sendmail receives/sends mails and passes through antispam and antivirus and greylister AND lots of people view their website, AND there are 5 virtualboxed windoze session to run old software under windoze XP AND doing web proxy AND encrypting everything on disk. Still - getting by average one core saturated, with good deal of it being encryption (fortunately AESNI support here). All this AT THE SAME TIME on lower end dell T110-II tower server with 4 disks and 8GB RAM and single quad core xeon. If someone want to sell a lot of hardware then he/she will not like FreeBSD! ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On 29 Apr 2012 16:33, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each release of it ) . Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this is the most advanced unix from Oracle. I prefer less advanced FreeBSD Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. Chris ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Apr 29, 2012, at 8:47 AM, Chris Rees utis...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 Apr 2012 16:33, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each release of it ) . Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this is the most advanced unix from Oracle. I prefer less advanced FreeBSD Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. +1 Leave mudslinging to marketing and politicians :).. -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Mac OSD _is_ a UNIX: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/4376 So, why not use a UNIX on the Desktop? :) as well as my VoIP phone gateway software. as well as Mac software it is unix based but NOT meant for it's user to interact with unix commands or even know it is. Just opposite to FreeBSD/amd64. Nothing wrong to use FreeBSD (because of zero-restriction BSD licence) this way and actually used that way often - eg. Juniper routers. But why so many people here want everyone (or at least a lot of ordinary people) to use it willingly, while 99.9% of people will not be able to ever learn any unix? or actually any software except of point and click. No idea. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this is the most advanced unix from Oracle. I prefer less advanced FreeBSD Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. So? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
I prefer less advanced FreeBSD Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. +1 Leave mudslinging to marketing and politicians :).. -Garrett as for now you and few other people work hard to DE-promote FreeBSD from those few people that are able to make use of it but yet didn't. Or more exact - delay, because those that need it sooner or later will start using it. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Andy Young ayo...@mosaicarchive.com wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, Can you name a few? Zfs, jails, and ip aliases are the first that come to mind. I also really like the defaults concept of the config file layout. I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. It would be interesting to read about your infrastructure, the reasons why you found FreeBSD to be a better fit than what you used before, challenges during deployment and migration, any resulting performance/maintenance improvements, etc. A short article or a blog post with the above maybe? Sounds like a good idea. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. (Adding freebsd-advocacy@ to CC). ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4/27/12 10:16 AM, Andy Young wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. Hi Andrew, Your message caught my eye because of your company name in your signature. I thought I had seen it somewhere before, and I had - I was at the VentureX competition at the abi when you won the grand prize! I'm down the road in Hollis, NH, and I have been to a few of the Wednesday meetups at the abi. I am a FreeBSD ports tree committer, and like you, I found it a number of years ago after getting so frustrated with the multitude of different Linux flavors. I needed an OS that was packaged consistently, and the ports tree was a huge win for me. After submitting a number of PRs over the years, I was invited to become a committer, and I have mentored other new committers since then. If that is ever an interest to you, we should talk about it. Anyway, I would be happy to meet with you to talk about FreeBSD in general, as well as advocacy, if you want. I'm interested to learn more about how you are managing your infrastructure, too. We currently making heavy use of jails and are also in the midst of a project implementing a Puppet-based server provisioning framework. We could certainly give a short overview of FreeBSD in one of the meetups at the abi, and maybe there's even call for a user group, if there's enough interest in the area. Cheers, Greg Wow! Talk about a small world. I'd love to meet up. I'll send you a direct email and maybe we can grab coffee or something next week. - -- Greg Larkin http://www.FreeBSD.org/ - The Power To Serve http://www.sourcehosting.net/ - Ready. Set. Code. http://twitter.com/cpucycle/ - Follow you, follow me -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk+a79kACgkQ0sRouByUApCR+gCePd4rfkcdyq0OuOecxOAbRz6Q 5e4An15lkn9QRL6T9LvDgCMgYt4TATjp =B/1h -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry Information, encouragement and just more awareness would have helped me out a lot. I can't help but think that getting students involved earlier on would pave the way for more awareness and adoption later on. Andy ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, April 27, 2012 18:30, Freddie Cash wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . And that's a good thing. :) It forces people to learn. And it allows people to create the system *they* need, instead of being forced to use the system the project thinks everyone needs. We spend a good 2-3 hours customising Ubuntu Server and Debian Linux installs to make them work they way *we* want them to, with the software *we* want, and the configurations *we* need. Most of that time is spent undoing all the helpful abstractions that Ubuntu/Debian devs think make life simpler (and they do, *IF* you use a GUI to manage things, but CLI users are left in the cold). Just look at the horrible mess that is GRUB2 configuration on Ubuntu/Debina, with shell script snippets spread through 4 different directories. Great for GUI tools to parse and update, but a royal pain for CLI users. that could not be more true. Ubuntu won't even ask if you want GRUB, it installs it and will replace your bootloader regardless. I hate that. this is one reason to just use ubuntu where it is alone, and won't harm no OS. FreeBSD asks, and will respect my will to choose. matheus -- We will call you Cygnus, The God of balance you shall be A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, c.hutchins...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm wondering if spinning up a live DVD desktop version, using GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD for a test drive ... There is such a very nice distribution : http://ghostbsd.org/ Also, freesbie.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:24 PM, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, c.hutchins...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm wondering if spinning up a live DVD desktop version, using GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD for a test drive ... There is such a very nice distribution : http://ghostbsd.org/ Also, freesbie.org The above link is not complete . The freesbie.org is working as follows : http://www.freesbie.org/ Others : http://www.desktopbsd.net/ There are some links in the page : http://www.livebsd.org/ Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Ways to promote FreeBSD?
After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. -- Andrew Young Mosaic Storage Systems, Inc http://www.mosaicarchive.com/ Twitter: @MosaicArchive Facebook: Mosaic ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:16:51AM -0400, Andy Young wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. This is probably a better discussion for advocacy@... added to CC line. Anyway a central point of contact for further information related to that can be found at http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ Welcome -- - (2^(N-1)) pgpgBEzYeCEAJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Andy Young ayo...@mosaicarchive.com wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for implementing large-scale storage servers. In my research I found ZFS and subsequently found FreeBSD. As I learned more about it, I was incredibly impressed. There are so many elements of FreeBSD that I love, Can you name a few? I've completely ditched Linux and am deploying FreeBSD exclusively on my company's server infrastructure. It would be interesting to read about your infrastructure, the reasons why you found FreeBSD to be a better fit than what you used before, challenges during deployment and migration, any resulting performance/maintenance improvements, etc. A short article or a blog post with the above maybe? I can't help wonder why I hadn't heard all about it before. Sure, I knew the name, but I had never seen it in use, either in college or in over ten years as a software developer since then. In contrast Linux is everywhere! Even though there are so many applications where FreeBSD seems to be a better or at least more mature solution. What are the current efforts to promote and educate people on FreeBSD? I'd love to help spread the word. (Adding freebsd-advocacy@ to CC). ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a breath to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a hardened FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 05:18:47PM -0400, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : There, you are wrong. If you choose to take the defaults, you can breeze through installation just setting IP and hostame and nameserver the same as on any Lunix I have ever installed. But, FreeBSD does make options much more plentiful than Linux and that is one of the things that makes FreeBSD so powerful and useful. It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . Completely not true. In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . I never set anything special for using USB or CD, etc. I just put in some media and mount them and use them. I don't need to do anything special in installation. I have always had to muck with rc stuff and especially the horrid iptables every time I have installed a Lunic. Enough, though. I doubt you will be convinced. jerry This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a breath to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a hardened FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . And that's a good thing. :) It forces people to learn. And it allows people to create the system *they* need, instead of being forced to use the system the project thinks everyone needs. We spend a good 2-3 hours customising Ubuntu Server and Debian Linux installs to make them work they way *we* want them to, with the software *we* want, and the configurations *we* need. Most of that time is spent undoing all the helpful abstractions that Ubuntu/Debian devs think make life simpler (and they do, *IF* you use a GUI to manage things, but CLI users are left in the cold). Just look at the horrible mess that is GRUB2 configuration on Ubuntu/Debina, with shell script snippets spread through 4 different directories. Great for GUI tools to parse and update, but a royal pain for CLI users. Compared to FreeBSD where you get a nice, barebones system where we spend some time *building up* the system we want, instead of tearing down/removing excess crud. The beauty of FreeBSD as well, is that there are other projects that build on FreeBSD to create super-simple-easy-to-use-ready-from-the-word-go setups, like PC-BSD. :) With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Everything you rant about is covered by PC-BSD ... yet, you don't want PC-BSD. :) Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Considering how long it's been used by various people around the world, I would hardly call PC-BSD untested. Maybe it's time to fire up a VM and try it? You may be pleasantly surprised that everything you are complaining about is there, ready and waiting for you to click on it. Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Freddie Cash fjwc...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
- Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) Regards Steve This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Steven Hartland wrote: - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) I worked for the CS dept. at a university for 30years. What I observed was that students were usually enthusiastic about trying a new os. However, these days, they have almost no idea how to work in a command line environment. If they installed FreeBSD, it would be zapped off their disk within minutes of the install completing and they'd forget about it. They install and like distros like Ubuntu, which install and work the way they expect (yes, they expect a GUI desktop, etc). When they get out in industry, they remember Linux, but won't remember FreeBSD (at least not in a good way). Now, I am not suggesting that FreeBSD try and generate Ubuntu-like desktop distros. However, it might be nice if the top level web page let people know that the installs there are not desktop systems and point them to PC-BSD (or whatever other desktop distro there might be?) for a desktop install. (I know, the original poster wasn't a PC-BSD fan, but others seem happy with it. I'll admit I've never tried it, but then, I'm not a GUI desktop guy.:-) Just my $0.00 worth, rick Regards Steve This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 6:32 PM, Steven Hartland kill...@multiplay.co.ukwrote: - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) Regards Steve As I mentioned in my previous messages , the new bsdinstall is a very nice and very good installer . My ideas are not about goodness of installer programs , but related to installation structure especially for desktop users . Therefore , it is not suitable to mix these concepts . I am NOT claiming that Linux is better than FreeBSD . I find such comparisons very useless . Each has its advantages and disadvantages . Some Linux distributions require much knowledge for install than FreeBSD requirements . Some distributions are very good for installation structure for desktop users ( for example , Fedora , Mandriva , Mageia , Debian , and some others ) If I repeat once more , I am talking about usage easiness after default installation of FreeBSD by ordinary ( means NOT being computing expert ) new desktop users . It is obvious that if any one attempts to install and maintain a server , it is likely that she or he is much more knowledgeable than a new user . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Rick Macklem rmack...@uoguelph.ca wrote: Steven Hartland wrote: - Original Message - From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . I disagree, we find quite the opposite; FreeBSD's current install is perfect its quick, doesn't install stuff we don't need and leaves a very nice base. Linux on the other had takes ages, asks way to many questions, has issues with some hardware with mouse and gui not work properly making the install difficult to navigate, but most import its quite hard to get a nice simple base as there are so many options, which is default with FreeBSD. In essence it depends on what you want and how you use the OS. For the way we use FreeBSD on our servers its perfect. So if your trying to suggest its not suitable for all that's is incorrect as it depends on what you want :) I worked for the CS dept. at a university for 30years. What I observed was that students were usually enthusiastic about trying a new os. However, these days, they have almost no idea how to work in a command line environment. If they installed FreeBSD, it would be zapped off their disk within minutes of the install completing and they'd forget about it. They install and like distros like Ubuntu, which install and work the way they expect (yes, they expect a GUI desktop, etc). When they get out in industry, they remember Linux, but won't remember FreeBSD (at least not in a good way). Now, I am not suggesting that FreeBSD try and generate Ubuntu-like desktop distros. However, it might be nice if the top level web page let people know that the installs there are not desktop systems and point them to PC-BSD (or whatever other desktop distro there might be?) for a desktop install. (I know, the original poster wasn't a PC-BSD fan, but others seem happy with it. I'll admit I've never tried it, but then, I'm not a GUI desktop guy.:-) Just my $0.00 worth, rick Regards Steve Absolutely I do NOT have any idea against PC-BSD . My wish is that it should be much better than its current state . My suggestion is that it needs testing before its releases especially on bare metal with new and previously installed different operating system hard disks . Installation success on a VM ( Virtual Machine ) is very misleading because a VM is an artificial environment and it is supplying some services which they are not available in a bare metal machine . FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each release of it ) . My ideas are about parameters set by installation for desktop users , not for computing experts . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Greetings... On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:18:47 -0400 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a breath to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a hardened FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk I'm wondering if spinning up a live DVD desktop version, using GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD for a test drive. That'd give new ppl to FreeBSD an oportunity to try-before-commit. I'd envision the DVD having links on the desktop to all the important info regarding the setup, and use of a *BSD system -- including the pre-requisits to setup/install. It'd give them a hands on experience, so they'd know in advance, what to expect. It might also be an image that'd permit something like dd if=/path/freebsd9-kde.img of=/dev/hd/slice||partition While I /know/ PC-BSD offers something similar, I just thought something geared more towards a FULL FreeBSD experience, that includes pointers to LEARNING FreeBSD -- everything you ever wanted to know about FreeBSD, but were afraid
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, c.hutchins...@yahoo.com wrote: Greetings... On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:18:47 -0400 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry McAllister jerr...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:27:07PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: After using Linux for almost 15 years, I only recently started using FreeBSD. I own an internet startup and was looking for a solution for Those who need FreeBSD already use it. no need to promote. Or maybe need to promote bigger donations to FreeBSD community from big users. Those who actually need high performers and have servers that are loaded and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Sure, if people take the time and come to the web site and then download and use it and learn it, they know and don't need to be told much. But, most others are not yet in that situation. They might appreciate the help. Of course, some may be too lazy or prejudiced to go through that, but many just need some more information and encouragement I would guess. jerry My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . Contrary to this , when a FreeBSD is installed , an ordinary user can NOT use USB , CD/DVD , etc. , and even key board / mouse in X without setting MANY parameters in MANY files ( loder.conf , rc.conf , etc. ) . This point is a very important difficulty for the beginners and a really very tiring for experienced users . The first thing for FreeBSD to promote its use is to be done is to remedy this obstacle . All over the years , this fact is ignored , and left as it is , with a counter argument that FreeBSD is for servers . If we stick into this idea indefinitely , FreeBSD user base will not exceed a few with respect to number of desktop users because number of servers with respect to number of desktop users may be considered very small . Such a small user base is not sufficient supply a breath to FreeBSD to make it live . An important example is www.wikipedia.org which I mentioned many times . In yearly campaigns , they are collecting more than 15 MILLION US dollars as donations where average donations being around 5 US dollars per donation . Contrary to this , www.freebsdfoundation.org has a yearly budget less than HALF a MILLION US dollars . If the news I read is correct , Mozilla Foundation is getting 300 MILLION US dollars from Google for specifying its name in its search bar . Failure point for the FreeBSD is its usage difficulty and a small number of user base . Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect to desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop users . For them , it is very easy to harden FreeBSD after installation if ever it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to ask : Will this be used as a Server ? With respect to answer to this question , even during installation a hardened FreeBSD may be installed . Another , for me , irrespective , idea is to mention PC-BSD in place of FreeBSD . With a more than FORTY years of computing experience , my idea about PC-BSD is that it is complete failure and mentioning it in front of FreeBSD is only to create another obstacle for it . Trouble for PC-BSD is that , for me , it is an untested ( as even as a simple installation on a bare hardware ) distribution . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk I'm wondering if spinning up a live DVD desktop version, using GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD for a test drive. That'd give new ppl to FreeBSD an oportunity to try-before-commit. I'd envision the DVD having links on the desktop to all the important info regarding the setup, and use of a *BSD system -- including the pre-requisits to setup/install. It'd give them a hands on experience, so they'd know in advance, what to expect. It might also be an image that'd permit something like dd if=/path/freebsd9-kde.img of=/dev/hd/slice||partition While I /know/ PC-BSD offers something similar, I just thought
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
and are working not toying around - use FreeBSD. Not really true and kind of a poor attitude. possibly but this is what i observe. Yes. many people needing high performance already use FreeBSD, but there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in the field and do not know better than that. Those would not benefit from FreeBSD or anything else. 99.9% of computer users are actually toying with them. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its installation structure : It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly as it is . In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , NOT root , can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters which it is approximately ZERO . why do you try to position this OS as windows/Mac OS replacement? Unix will never be and is not designed for it, but for users that want to have real control of computers. Linux got this was and fell. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Absolutely I do NOT have any idea against PC-BSD . My wish is that it Me too. in spite that it is FreeBSD based, it's good it is separate. This means that people that want windows style computing already have something FreeBSD based. So what a problem? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
