Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On 01/04/13 20:31, Adrian Chadd wrote: Why stop there? Noone runs FreeBSD on real hardware anymore. Except, say netflix. Let's just drop actual native hardware support and instead support only the bare minimum needed to boot inside vmware, virtualbox and xen. Anyone needing real hardware support can install NetBSD and xen. No need for NetBSD anymore, Xen is going to integrate the Linux tree and glibc, so you can build a full distro form the Xen tree: http://blog.xen.org/index.php/2013/04/01/bringing-open-source-communities-closer-together/ ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Hello, Dag-Erling. You wrote 2 апреля 2013 г., 13:04:04: DES http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html This one is 64-bit capable according to their mailing list -- // Black Lion AKA Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES . It is possible to assemble much more cheaper full featured PC like systems ( DDR3 memory , 64-bit capable processors , with a disadvantage about power requirements ) . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES . It is possible to assemble much more cheaper full featured PC like systems ( DDR3 memory , 64-bit capable processors , with a disadvantage about power requirements ) . Power consumption. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Achim Hut achim...@achimhut.de wrote: Am 02.04.2013 12:13, schrieb Kimmo Paasiala: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES . It is possible to assemble much more cheaper full featured PC like systems ( DDR3 memory , 64-bit capable processors , with a disadvantage about power requirements ) . Power consumption. ...Space - Price - temperature, easy to use, no Fans, no Noise... I was surprised about this discussion and first thought, its some kind of april joke. Everybody talks about cheap new 64 bit hardware But how about the hardware people are actualy using? In our datacenter we are running (beside 64bit machines) a large amount of 32bit servers. We have a room full of spare parts, spare servers... And we have no reason to change them to 64bit hardware. HP, IBM, they all run since years and i am shure, they make 5-10 more years :-) And we dont want to stop using FreeBSD after V9.x or so. Dont forget there are a lot of different people with different needs out there. Not everybody puts his focus on a cheap desktop PC thats thrown away after 3 years Achim It is in fact an April Fools Joke :D However, it does not invalidate some of the points made. ARM is going to dominate the desktop/laptop/tablet/smartphone market very soon and it would be very wise for FreeBSD to shift the focus to it as soon as possible. -Kimmo ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 03:10:56AM -0700, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk typed: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav d...@des.no wrote: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav - d...@des.no I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES . They are extremely stable and robust. It is possible to assemble much more cheaper full featured PC like systems ( DDR3 memory , 64-bit capable processors , with a disadvantage about power requirements ) . You can also get much bigger portions at MacDonald than what you get in a five star restaurant. Ruben ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Am 02.04.2013 12:13, schrieb Kimmo Paasiala: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES . It is possible to assemble much more cheaper full featured PC like systems ( DDR3 memory , 64-bit capable processors , with a disadvantage about power requirements ) . Power consumption. ...Space - Price - temperature, easy to use, no Fans, no Noise... I was surprised about this discussion and first thought, its some kind of april joke. Everybody talks about cheap new 64 bit hardware But how about the hardware people are actualy using? In our datacenter we are running (beside 64bit machines) a large amount of 32bit servers. We have a room full of spare parts, spare servers... And we have no reason to change them to 64bit hardware. HP, IBM, they all run since years and i am shure, they make 5-10 more years :-) And we dont want to stop using FreeBSD after V9.x or so. Dont forget there are a lot of different people with different needs out there. Not everybody puts his focus on a cheap desktop PC thats thrown away after 3 years Achim ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com writes: I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES. Please stop SHOUTING, and learn to accept and respect the fact that other people have other opinions and priorities than you do, and to stop trying to force your worldview on them. Maybe they know something you haven't learned yet. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:41 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com writes: I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES. Please stop SHOUTING, and learn to accept and respect the fact that other people have other opinions and priorities than you do, and to stop trying to force your worldview on them. Maybe they know something you haven't learned yet. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no You are right , but my idea was in affirmative sense to understand the reasons . I know that persons are using such systems with respect to some advantages other than the cost and their producers have reasons to assign such prices in a free economic structure . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Apr 2, 2013, at 4:10 AM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES . It is possible to assemble much more cheaper full featured PC like systems ( DDR3 memory , 64-bit capable processors , with a disadvantage about power requirements ) . Often times the power consumption is the most important bit, so much so you sacrifice speed and memory to get the power down to fit into a small power budget. Just because you have the ability to purchase a faster machine for less doesn't make that faster machine suitable for the job. Warner Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-a...@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-arch-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 10:22:20AM +, Ruben de Groot wrote: On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 03:10:56AM -0700, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk typed: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav d...@des.no wrote: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav - d...@des.no I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES . They are extremely stable and robust. It is possible to assemble much more cheaper full featured PC like systems ( DDR3 memory , 64-bit capable processors , with a disadvantage about power requirements ) . You can also get much bigger portions at MacDonald than what you get in a five star restaurant. Soekris boards are perhaps not five star boards but at least they have four :) Although the thread started as an april fools day prank, it's getting serious now about the value of having i386 next to amd64. I'm using quite a number of net4501/net4801/net5501/net6501 in many places just because I haven't found anything that can to the same job with the same reliability at the same low power diet for a reasonable price. For people on a tight budget with lower reliability expectations there are the PC-engines Alix boards. Except for the net6501, none of these can run amd64. Even though the net6501 can run amd64, I prefer running i386 on them (and other boards where I do not need = 4GB of RAM or the large address space) instead of amd64 just because the system image is so much smaller, requiring less storage on your filesystem (often a small flash device), less time to upload changes over the Internet when doing remote upgrades and they are more efficient with virtual memory. Running amd64 when not really needed is just a waste of resources. There have been discussions in the past whether is would make sense to run a 32-bit userland on top of a amd64 kernel sou you can have 4GB of RAM but keep your userland relatively small. There are only few applications that really benefit from 64 bit address space, others could well be 32 bit apps. Just some random numbers to illustrate my point: i386$ size /bin/sh /bin/ls /usr/bin/find /usr/bin/cc textdata bss dec hex filename 11153310487460 120041 1d4e9 /bin/sh 22808 572 396 237765ce0 /bin/ls 33098 7603392 372509182 /usr/bin/find 3148419376 18204 342421 53995 /usr/bin/cc amd64$ size /bin/sh /bin/ls /usr/bin/find /usr/bin/cc textdata bss dec hex filename 1293711992 10272 141635 22943 /bin/sh 262551144 536 279356d1f /bin/ls 4346413524680 49496c158 /usr/bin/find 383330 15296 58664 457290 6fa4a /usr/bin/cc Kind regards, Paul Schenkeveld ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Apr 2, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Chris BeHanna wrote: Goodness gracious, did no one see the date on the original post? What's the limit on this fishing hole? Three internet Trolls, two wise old owls and a april fool in a pear tree from the looks of it. Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Goodness gracious, did no one see the date on the original post? What's the limit on this fishing hole? -- Chris BeHanna ch...@behanna.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
As far I can tell it's now April 2nd in all time zones. Can we now end this thread? thank you, -Alfred On 4/2/13 6:22 AM, Paul Schenkeveld wrote: On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 10:22:20AM +, Ruben de Groot wrote: On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 03:10:56AM -0700, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk typed: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav d...@des.no wrote: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org writes: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html DES -- Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav - d...@des.no I am NOT able to understand the merit of these products with respect to their features and PRICES . They are extremely stable and robust. It is possible to assemble much more cheaper full featured PC like systems ( DDR3 memory , 64-bit capable processors , with a disadvantage about power requirements ) . You can also get much bigger portions at MacDonald than what you get in a five star restaurant. Soekris boards are perhaps not five star boards but at least they have four :) Although the thread started as an april fools day prank, it's getting serious now about the value of having i386 next to amd64. I'm using quite a number of net4501/net4801/net5501/net6501 in many places just because I haven't found anything that can to the same job with the same reliability at the same low power diet for a reasonable price. For people on a tight budget with lower reliability expectations there are the PC-engines Alix boards. Except for the net6501, none of these can run amd64. Even though the net6501 can run amd64, I prefer running i386 on them (and other boards where I do not need = 4GB of RAM or the large address space) instead of amd64 just because the system image is so much smaller, requiring less storage on your filesystem (often a small flash device), less time to upload changes over the Internet when doing remote upgrades and they are more efficient with virtual memory. Running amd64 when not really needed is just a waste of resources. There have been discussions in the past whether is would make sense to run a 32-bit userland on top of a amd64 kernel sou you can have 4GB of RAM but keep your userland relatively small. There are only few applications that really benefit from 64 bit address space, others could well be 32 bit apps. Just some random numbers to illustrate my point: i386$ size /bin/sh /bin/ls /usr/bin/find /usr/bin/cc textdata bss dec hex filename 11153310487460 120041 1d4e9 /bin/sh 22808 572 396 237765ce0 /bin/ls 33098 7603392 372509182 /usr/bin/find 3148419376 18204 342421 53995 /usr/bin/cc amd64$ size /bin/sh /bin/ls /usr/bin/find /usr/bin/cc textdata bss dec hex filename 1293711992 10272 141635 22943 /bin/sh 262551144 536 279356d1f /bin/ls 4346413524680 49496c158 /usr/bin/find 383330 15296 58664 457290 6fa4a /usr/bin/cc Kind regards, Paul Schenkeveld ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Hi, On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 00:48:08 -0400 Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. if not for the date, I just wonder, what significance it real has. Erich ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Hello, Eitan. You wrote 1 апреля 2013 г., 8:48:08: EA I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we EA should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 EA and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. A lot of people (myself included) uses FreeBSD on small integrated boards from Soekris, ALIX and others, equipped with low-power non-interl i386-compatible processors. Now such boards start (only start!) to migrate to Intel Atom, but not every Intel Atom platform is 64bit capable (it depends on CPU, chipset, BIOS and some other unknown conditions, but the same CPU on different boards could be and could be not 64-bit capable in practice). And these die-hard integrated mult-NIC soldered-memory soldered-CPU motherboards will work for long time. I'm using -CURRENT on my board, because I need very last WiFi, for example, and as such boards are often used as small custom routers, it is not only my case. -- // Black Lion AKA Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com writes: At present, there is NO any processor which is ONLY 32-bits. All the world is not a PC. There are still 32-bit x86-based embedded or small-form-factor systems, such as the soekris net5501 and net6501, which are widely used in the BSD community. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 3:39 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com writes: At present, there is NO any processor which is ONLY 32-bits. All the world is not a PC. There are still 32-bit x86-based embedded or small-form-factor systems, such as the soekris net5501 and net6501, which are widely used in the BSD community. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no These are special purpose systems and they are not developed by , let's say , ordinary users . Therefore , their developers may maintain the existing i386 branch as a specialized branch with a freedom to tailor it to more specific needs . Since I am not a developer or user of such a system , I can not say whether 25000 packages are necessary for them or not . Reducing any amount of work load which its outcome is not directly used is a contribution to the FreeBSD project by diverting such efforts to other man power or resources required areas . When costs are considered , some times 64 bit capable systems are not so expensive : As an example : From a computer shop in Turkey with many branch shops : Memory : 1 Giga Bytes chips : From $27 + VAT to $40 + VAT 4 Giga Bytes chips : From $31 + VAT to $43 + VAT There is NO reason to buy 4 x ( 1 Giga Bytes ) , when the difference is a few dollars with 4 x ( 4 Giga Bytes ) . AMD Sempron 145 AM3 2.8GHz processor is $ 34 + VAT which is 64 bits capable . As I said above , I am not able to make knowledgeable comparisons about such systems but my opinion is that these specialized systems are not so much advantageous . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com writes: Since I am not a developer or user of such a system , I can not say whether 25000 packages are necessary for them or not. Reducing any amount of work load which its outcome is not directly used is a contribution to the FreeBSD project by diverting such efforts to other man power or resources required areas. You're assuming that maintaining i386 as a tier 1 platform really *does* add significantly to our workload. You should also check your calendar :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
From: Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 00:48:08 -0400 Subject: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture To: freebsd-a...@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. don't care for i386, don't use it anymore. Is ARM really ready for tier 1? Including the ports infrastructure? Installation images? Anton ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Mar 31, 2013, at 11:48 PM, Kimmo Paasiala wrote: I think the only ones who are going to object are the users of embedded hardware. Some of them are still using CPUs that are only i586 equivalent. Personally I support the notion. -Kimmo On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Actually, that's not true. ARM is producing a 64-bit thing, but (a) it hasn't been released yet and (b) the vast majority of all embedded arm boards are 32-bits. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. I've not seen this to be the case, and I still run i386 in several virtual machines as well as on my firewall. Running in a virtual environment isn't good support for dropping i386, frankly. I've had the build be broken for me about equal times for both. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. arm can be Tier 1 without dropping i386 as Tier 1. Are there specific bugs in i386 that haven't gone fixed for a long time? Basically, I see no benefit to this move. At least none has been articulated. Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Apr 1, 2013, at 7:31 AM, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: From: Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 00:48:08 -0400 Subject: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture To: freebsd-a...@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. don't care for i386, don't use it anymore. Is ARM really ready for tier 1? Including the ports infrastructure? Installation images? It is certainly getting close, at least for the newer armv6+ boards. Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On 04/01/13 06:39, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk m.e.sanlit...@gmail.com writes: At present, there is NO any processor which is ONLY 32-bits. All the world is not a PC. There are still 32-bit x86-based embedded or small-form-factor systems, such as the soekris net5501 and net6501, which are widely used in the BSD community. DES Just for the sake of the archives, the net6501 is 64bit: FreeBSD 9.1-STABLE #3 r245043: Fri Jan 4 11:05:39 EST 2013 root@hostname:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/AMD64-9 amd64 CPU: Genuine Intel(R) CPU@ 1.60GHz (1600.03-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin = GenuineIntel Id = 0x20661 Family = 0x6 Model = 0x26 Stepping = 1 Features=0xbfe9fbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CLFLUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE Features2=0x40e3bdSSE3,DTES64,MON,DS_CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,MOVBE AMD Features=0x20100800SYSCALL,NX,LM AMD Features2=0x1LAHF TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics real memory = 2147352576 (2047 MB) avail memory = 2047160320 (1952 MB) MPTable: Soekris net6501 ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. what? i rarely see firefox exceed 1GB and it is already way too much IMHO. ? A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. and never was. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. but ALL NEW x86 computers have 64-bit instruction set. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? now 1 server running. because it's older and not 64-bit capable. and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. true. no need to support it as tier 1. users of older hardware usually don't want to upgrade to latest freebsd kernel and userland. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
that it is NOT necessary to make it a first class branch . 1 Giga Bytes , and even 2 Giga Bytes memory chips are disappearing from the computer shops slowly . at now 2GB RAM is smallest you can get, and intel atom is lowest end - but still 64-bit - CPU. At present , there is NO any processor which is ONLY 32-bits . Not only the Windows Server , if I am not remembering incorrectly , new regular Windows it should not matter what microsoft do. It is Unix. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On 4/1/13, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: You're assuming that maintaining i386 as a tier 1 platform really *does* add significantly to our workload. Indeed. We don't seem to be running into a ton of issues on this front, and I do still find my 32-bit only Atom-based netbook useful when traveling. You should also check your calendar :) This is one of the finest pieces of April Fools' Day trolling I've seen in quite some time. I'd rank it right up there with that press release from some years ago about Microsoft's acquisition of the Roman Catholic Church. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Hello, Wojciech. You wrote 1 апреля 2013 г., 20:03:27: that it is NOT necessary to make it a first class branch . 1 Giga Bytes , and even 2 Giga Bytes memory chips are disappearing from the computer shops slowly . WP at now 2GB RAM is smallest you can get, and intel atom is lowest end - but WP still 64-bit - CPU. It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. -- // Black Lion AKA Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Why stop there? Noone runs FreeBSD on real hardware anymore. Except, say netflix. Let's just drop actual native hardware support and instead support only the bare minimum needed to boot inside vmware, virtualbox and xen. Anyone needing real hardware support can install NetBSD and xen. Adrian On 31 March 2013 21:48, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
WP still 64-bit - CPU. It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. don't know of any now in shops that are not -- // Black Lion AKA Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
You should also check your calendar :) This is one of the finest pieces of April Fools' Day trolling I've seen in quite some time. I'd rank it right up there with that press release from some years ago about Microsoft's acquisition of the Roman Catholic Church. anyway Easter at 1 april for me is already a great joke :) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On 04/01/2013 12:48 AM, Eitan Adler wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Eitan, Your arguments against 32-bit are undermined by your statement that FreeBSD should replace i386 with ARM. ARM is a 32-bit architecture While there is a 64-bit version of ARM in development, there are a few issues to consider. First, none of the compilers in base support it. Second, every market that uses ARM is fine with 32-bit hardware. Many intentionally use older versions of ARM (such as ARMv5) specifically because such chips are cheaper, more power efficient and get the job done. ARMv8, the 64-bit version of ARM, is only necessary in Intel's territory, which is an area where ARM is attempting to expand. There is no reason to think that 32-bit ARM will be phased out in existing applications. In addition, the idea that others are dropping support for 32-bit hardware is somewhat exaggerated. Wikipedia states that Microsoft Windows Server 2008 runs on IA-32, which is a synonym for 32-bit x86. In addition, Apple hardware is traditionally 64-bit. They only had 32-bit support because of a brief stint with Intel's 32-bit only Yonah chip during the Intel transition. I see no problem with demoting i386 to Tier 2 status. The committers' guide specifically states: Architectures reaching end of life may also be moved from Tier 1 status to Tier 2 status as the availability of resources to continue to maintain the system in a Production Quality state diminishes. Additionally, while it is true that ARM's important is increasing, you do not make a cohesive argument for ARM's promotion to Tier 1 status. The committers' guide does suggests that there must be at least 2 Tier 1 architectures, but it is not clear to me that architecture should be ARM: Tier 1 embedded architectures must be able to cross-build packages on at least one other Tier 1 architecture. On that note, I imagine that this would be a decision for the FreeBSD core team to make. I am not a FreeBSD committer, so what I think probably does not carry much weight with them. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Hello, Wojciech. You wrote 1 апреля 2013 г., 22:31:51: It is not exact so. Some Atoms on some motherboards with some firmwares are 64-bit CPU. WP don't know of any now in shops that are not Are you sure about Chinese-made MoBos with 6x1G on-board NICs and soldered memory and other such embedded devices? -- // Black Lion AKA Lev Serebryakov l...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Adrian Chadd wrote: Why stop there? Noone runs FreeBSD on real hardware anymore. Except, say netflix. Let's just drop actual native hardware support and instead support only the bare minimum needed to boot inside vmware, virtualbox and xen. Anyone needing real hardware support can install NetBSD and xen. The irony being that NetBSD runs on really obscure hardware but nothing that anybody anywhere uses? ;) Adrian On 31 March 2013 21:48, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On 01/04/2013 23:11, Joe Holden wrote: Adrian Chadd wrote: Why stop there? Noone runs FreeBSD on real hardware anymore. Except, say netflix. I run on my personal notebook. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Mon, Apr 01, 2013 at 12:48:08AM -0400, Eitan Adler wrote: Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only. No, it isn't. Windows Server 2008 comes in both 32 bit and 64 bit versions. Windows Server 2008 R2 is 64 bit only however. The same goes for Windows Server 2012. -- Joel ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. -- Eitan Adler This idea is really very good . The FreeBSD Project man power , for me , is wasted to maintain a branch that it is NOT necessary to make it a first class branch . 1 Giga Bytes , and even 2 Giga Bytes memory chips are disappearing from the computer shops slowly . At present , there is NO any processor which is ONLY 32-bits . Not only the Windows Server , if I am not remembering incorrectly , new regular Windows ( desk top , etc. ) versions will drop 32 bits branches : They only supply 64 bits versions . By concentrating on 64 bits ( amd64 ) branch and work toward distributed processing and high performance computing for super or clustered computers or graphics chips ( cards ) is much more useful than working on 32 bits version . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
I think the only ones who are going to object are the users of embedded hardware. Some of them are still using CPUs that are only i586 equivalent. Personally I support the notion. -Kimmo On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Monday, 1 April 2013 at 0:48:08 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. Nice one! And only 48 minutes into the day. I've seen a number of people take it seriously. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger g...@freebsd.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua pgp6abC0YZd7B.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: considering i386 as a tier 1 architecture
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey g...@freebsd.org wrote: On Monday, 1 April 2013 at 0:48:08 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote: Hi, I am writing this email to discuss the i386 architecture in FreeBSD. Computers are getting faster, but also more memory intensive. I can not find a laptop with less than 4 or 8 GB of RAM. Modern browsers, such as Firefox, require a 64bit architecture and 8GB of RAM. A 32 bit platform is not enough now a days on systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. A 32 bit core now is like 640K of RAM in the 1990s. Even in the embedded world ARM is going 64 bit with ARMv8. Secondly, the i386 port is unmaintained. Very few developers run it, so it doesn't get the testing it deserves. Almost every user post or bug report I see from a x86 compatible processor is running amd64. When was the last time you booted i386 outside a virtual machine? Often times the build works for amd64 but fails for i386. Finally, others are dropping support for i386. Windows Server 2008 is 64 bit only, OSX Mountain Lion (10.8) is 64-bit only. Users and downstream vendors no longer care about preserving ancient hardware. I hope this email is enough to convince you that on this date we should drop support for the i386 architecture for 10.0 to tier 2 and replace it with the ARM architecture as Tier 1. Nice one! And only 48 minutes into the day. I've seen a number of people take it seriously. Greg -- Oh crap :P However, this discussion will not be out of place some day, may be 2 or 3 years and practicly everything will be 64-bits. -Kimmo ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
