Re: what happened to make world?
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 03:49:12 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Not every FreeBSD user is [still] a "computer enthusiast". It just so > happens that the OS at the time is the best one for many, many different > uses, such as: server, router, research workstation, 'desktop', etc. > It is basically an excellent universal tool for many > (computer_science|IT)-unrelated tasks, e.g. machine in a physics lab. For me, FreeBSD is the best platform for developers and senior support personnel to build custom solutions to those problems on. It provides a basic platform on which you can build things with minimal effort. Developers love this. > You see, it'd make me really sad to see FBSD go in the direction of > Linux one day, and be geared towards (hackish) developers. You know, I see GNU/Linux (as RMS notes, most of the userland utilities are from GNU, and they, not Linus, deserve the credit - or in this case the blame) as being much more geared towards users than developers when compared to FreeBSD. GNU/Linux distros tend to come prebuilt to solve those problems the way the distributors think they should be solved. If that happens to work for you, great - you win. Users love this. If it doesn't work for you, you have to build your own. Of course, first you have to get the GNU/Linux distro to the point where you can build your own. The prepackaged solutions wind up getting in the way all along the path. Developers hate this. FreeBSD, on the other hand, doesn't have those solutions preinstalled - you have to at least navigate the packages or ports system. Users hate this. I won't go into the differences between the packages software for FreeBSD vs. RHE, I'll just note that software installed by RHE has a habit of not working the way I need it to, and getting it to do the right thing almost always involves something disgusting, obscene or both. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
> : > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > : >> # make world > : >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > : >> installation without also building and installing a new > : >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > : >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > : >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > : >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > : >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > : >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > : >> before doing this. [...] > : I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. > > I will note that since we switched to the multi-phase world with > explicit reboot instructions, the support load for 'oh no, I shot > myself in the foot' has gone way down. There are times that one must > put a few safety rails in place. Since we have limited resources for > support for users, it is better to make them make sure they know what > they are doing so we can focus our resources better. > > Sometimes we have to optimize for developer time in the tradeoffs that > are made. Against any bit of modesty that's left in me, I'll crawl out of my cave for a second here -- to make a wise comment, no doubt ;) Not trying to start offtopic, just a little remark that's of importance to me (and to many other FreeBSD users, I bet). Not every FreeBSD user is [still] a "computer enthusiast". It just so happens that the OS at the time is the best one for many, many different uses, such as: server, router, research workstation, 'desktop', etc. It is basically an excellent universal tool for many (computer_science|IT)-unrelated tasks, e.g. machine in a physics lab. The ideal tool, of course, is the one that Just Works. Some of the folks using it can't afford the time expense of figuring out how exactly it's geared -- as long as things are working. If it Just Dies at any wrong move -- then, well, one can loose a lot of time, and be pretty screwed. I just hope that you developers won't be forgetting about the users. None of that "Are you sure?" nonsense is needed (it interferes with work as one gains experience), but just a helpful info message or a warning at the right moment is sure nice -- it makes things less painful and more productive. You see, it'd make me really sad to see FBSD go in the direction of Linux one day, and be geared towards (hackish) developers. Meaningless (to a mere mortal) error messages, obscure ways of doing things, chaotic development, and so on. Quite user-unfriendly. These things aren't "bad", they just tend to make the OS less useful as a tool. BTW, if this thread doesn't burn out, then perhaps it's about time it should start drifting in the general direction of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Warner [SorAlx] ridin' VS1400 ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
In message: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Pietro Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: : Max Laier wrote: : > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: : >> # make world : >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD : >> installation without also building and installing a new : >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, : >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. : >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, : >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. : >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining : >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications : >> before doing this. : >> : >> Bailing out now... : >> *** Error code 1 : >> : >> Stop in /usr/src. : >> : >> : >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with : >> - root access : >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" : >> needs this sort of things? : >> : >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on : >> the list.. have I missed something? : > : > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? : > : : I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. I will note that since we switched to the multi-phase world with explicit reboot instructions, the support load for 'oh no, I shot myself in the foot' has gone way down. There are times that one must put a few safety rails in place. Since we have limited resources for support for users, it is better to make them make sure they know what they are doing so we can focus our resources better. Sometimes we have to optimize for developer time in the tradeoffs that are made. Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
On 2007-08-30 21:49, Pietro Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > Even worse.. it doesn't tell you how to do what you tell him to > do.. it doubts that maybe that's not what you really want to do! Oh but it does. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications before doing this. So, if you know what you are doing and you really _want_ the old behavior, set HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD and off you go: # env HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD=yes \ make world It's not so hard or such a big PITA, right? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
> # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? it says 2 very important things: -- `make world` will overwrite (keywords here) existing base system (very well known as the 'world') without you explicitly telling it to (i.e., no 'install' string visible anywhere in the command line, but that's actually what it does); -- kernel is outside the world (slightly counter-intuitive), and installing world before kernel _can_ be dangerous (anyone disagrees?). so yes, it is more user friendly but this change causes very little inconvenience, thus could be considered an improvement Enough said > I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going > on the list.. have I missed something? [SorAlx] ridin' VS1400 ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
On Aug 30, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: Doug Barton wrote: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. These changes were made because of the long history of user help requests from people who aren't as smart as you who shot themselves in the foot. If you don't need the protection, so much the better for you. We've given you the code, do what you will with it. I'm filling a bug report to add a similar "feature" to /bin/rm when called with the -f switch Just joking.. mailing lists readers like I am aren't interested in your complaint about feeling stupid. get rid of it with your psychatrist or by ignoring warnings obvious to you. but, please, stop posting to inappropriate lists or useless questions. (refering to you other recent post on -questions) Matthieu ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
On Thursday, 30 August 2007 at 21:20:13 +0200, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation, kill your cat and burn your house down... > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? I'm sure they do, especially since things have changed. There are many good reasons for this change, but it saddens me. It used to be possible to run 'make world', and indeed we advertised how easy it was. But when problems crept in, instead of fixing them, we broke 'make world' up into small pieces. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers. pgp94giZOA41f.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: what happened to make world?
Erik Trulsson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 09:20:13PM +0200, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >> # make world >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD >> installation without also building and installing a new >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications >> before doing this. >> >> Bailing out now... >> *** Error code 1 >> >> Stop in /usr/src. >> >> >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with >> - root access >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" >> needs this sort of things? > > Yes. Having root access does not imply any particular knowledge or > experience. > In older documentation (which might be used by the unwary) there are > several references to 'make world'. > > This means that a person new to FreeBSD may well attempt to use 'make world' > while (wrongly) believing it to be the correct thing to use and not being > aware of the pitfalls with it. > > This is good to prevent. > > > >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on >> the list.. have I missed something? > > 'make world' has been deprecated and not-recommended for several years now. > The correct sequence to upgrade is described in /usr/src/UPDATING and does > not involve 'make world'. That's why I noticed this warning only three years after its appearance... > > Personally I think the better solution would be to remove the 'world' target > completely from the makefiles, but there is probably some good reason for > why that has not been done. I quite agree with you -- Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: what happened to make world?
On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 09:20:13PM +0200, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? Yes. Having root access does not imply any particular knowledge or experience. In older documentation (which might be used by the unwary) there are several references to 'make world'. This means that a person new to FreeBSD may well attempt to use 'make world' while (wrongly) believing it to be the correct thing to use and not being aware of the pitfalls with it. This is good to prevent. > > I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on > the list.. have I missed something? 'make world' has been deprecated and not-recommended for several years now. The correct sequence to upgrade is described in /usr/src/UPDATING and does not involve 'make world'. Personally I think the better solution would be to remove the 'world' target completely from the makefiles, but there is probably some good reason for why that has not been done. -- Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
Matthieu Michaud wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > >> Doug Barton wrote: >>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >>> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. >>> >>> These changes were made because of the long history of user help >>> requests from people who aren't as smart as you who shot themselves in >>> the foot. If you don't need the protection, so much the better for you. >>> We've given you the code, do what you will with it. >> >> I'm filling a bug report to add a similar "feature" to /bin/rm when >> called with the -f switch >> >> Just joking.. > > mailing lists readers like I am aren't interested in your complaint > about feeling stupid. get rid of it with your psychatrist or by ignoring > warnings obvious to you. but, please, stop posting to inappropriate > lists or useless questions. (refering to you other recent post on > -questions) Mailing lists readers like me aren't interested in whatever you may think about me. Here we discuss FreeBSD, and I won't lower it down to a personal level with you. Period. Please elaborate this: "Refering to you other recent post on @question". > > Matthieu -- Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp signature.asc Description: PGP signature signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: what happened to make world?
On August 30, 2007 12:41 pm Mike Meyer wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Max Laier wrote: > > > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > > >> # make world > > >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > > >> installation without also building and installing a new > > >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > > >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > > >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > > >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > > >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > > >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > > >> before doing this. > > >> > > >> Bailing out now... > > >> *** Error code 1 > > >> > > >> Stop in /usr/src. > > >> > > >> > > >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > > >> - root access > > >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > > >> needs this sort of things? > > >> > > >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd > > >> going on the list.. have I missed something? > > > > > > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > > > > I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. > > Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. > > But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - > you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's > going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to > do From the original post: -- Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications before doing this. -- What part in there doesn't make sense? :) It tells you right there "how to do what we told it to do". Seems like a lot of whining over nothing. -- Freddie Cash, LPIC-2 CCNT CCLP Network Support Technician School District 73 (250) 377-HELP [377-4357] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
On August 30, 2007 12:49 pm Pietro Cerutti wrote: > Mike Meyer wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Max Laier wrote: > >>> On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? > > I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd > going on the list.. have I missed something? > >>> > >>> And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > >> > >> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. > > > > Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. > > > > But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - > > you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's > > going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to > > do > > Even worse.. it doesn't tell you how to do what you tell him to do.. it > doubts that maybe that's not what you really want to do! From the bit you quoted in your first post: -- Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications before doing this. -- Tells you right there how to work around this warning. -- Freddie Cash, LPIC-2 CCNT CCLP Network Support Technician School District 73 (250) 377-HELP [377-4357] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. These changes were made because of the long history of user help requests from people who aren't as smart as you who shot themselves in the foot. If you don't need the protection, so much the better for you. We've given you the code, do what you will with it. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
Doug Barton wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > >> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. > > These changes were made because of the long history of user help > requests from people who aren't as smart as you who shot themselves in > the foot. If you don't need the protection, so much the better for you. > We've given you the code, do what you will with it. I'm filling a bug report to add a similar "feature" to /bin/rm when called with the -f switch Just joking.. > > Doug > -- Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: what happened to make world?
Mike Meyer wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Max Laier wrote: >>> On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: # make world WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD installation without also building and installing a new kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications before doing this. Bailing out now... *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with - root access - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" needs this sort of things? I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on the list.. have I missed something? >>> And your complaint would be ... what exactly? >>> >> I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. > > Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. > > But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - > you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's > going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to > do Even worse.. it doesn't tell you how to do what you tell him to do.. it doubts that maybe that's not what you really want to do! > > http://gahr.ch/pgp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: what happened to make world?
On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 03:41:29PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Max Laier wrote: > > > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > > >> # make world > > >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > > >> installation without also building and installing a new > > >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > > >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > > >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > > >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > > >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > > >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > > >> before doing this. > > >> > > >> Bailing out now... > > >> *** Error code 1 > > >> > > >> Stop in /usr/src. > > >> > > >> > > >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > > >> - root access > > >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > > >> needs this sort of things? > > >> > > >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on > > >> the list.. have I missed something? > > > > > > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > > > > > > > I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. > > Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. > > But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - > you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's > going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to > do > >-- > Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://www.mired.org/consulting.html > Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. Anyway, this change is 3 years old and you are complaining just now. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/Makefile.diff?r1=text&tr1=1.300&r2=text&tr2=1.304 Yuri pgpMFRflejceC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: what happened to make world?
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:18 +0200 Pietro Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Max Laier wrote: > > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > >> # make world > >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > >> installation without also building and installing a new > >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > >> before doing this. > >> > >> Bailing out now... > >> *** Error code 1 > >> > >> Stop in /usr/src. > >> > >> > >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > >> - root access > >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > >> needs this sort of things? > >> > >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on > >> the list.. have I missed something? > > > > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > > > > I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. Yeah, we have Windows for that. Or if you hate MS, GNU/Linux. But there are valid reasons for wanting to do a make world (i.e. - you've changed make.conf options the kernel doesn't use). If it's going to be friendly, it should tell us how to do what we told it to do http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
Jose-Marcio Martins da Cruz wrote: > Pietro Cerutti wrote: >> # make world > >> >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with >> - root access >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" >> needs this sort of things? >> >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on >> the list.. have I missed something? > > Take a look in the first, say, 20 lines of /usr/src/Makefile or read > /usr/src/UPDATING # # $FreeBSD: src/Makefile,v 1.319.2.6 2007/03/28 08:46:02 ru Exp $ # # The user-driven targets are: # # universe- *Really* build *everything* (buildworld and # all kernels on all architectures). # buildworld - Rebuild *everything*, including glue to help do # upgrades. # installworld- Install everything built by "buildworld". # world - buildworld + installworld. # buildkernel - Rebuild the kernel and the kernel-modules. # installkernel - Install the kernel and the kernel-modules. # installkernel.debug # reinstallkernel - Reinstall the kernel and the kernel-modules. # reinstallkernel.debug # kernel - buildkernel + installkernel. # update - Convenient way to update your source tree (cvs). # check-old - Print a list of old files/directories in the system. # delete-old - Delete obsolete files and directories interactively. ... so what? Can't find any info about this in /usr/src/UPDATING. Can you? I'm not saying that I can't figure out how to make world again. I just don't agree with the decision to put that stupid message in Makefile. I suppose that a person typing make world as root already knows what she's going to do. -- Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: what happened to make world?
Pietro Cerutti wrote: # make world Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with - root access - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" needs this sort of things? I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on the list.. have I missed something? Take a look in the first, say, 20 lines of /usr/src/Makefile or read /usr/src/UPDATING ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: what happened to make world?
Max Laier wrote: > On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >> # make world >> WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD >> installation without also building and installing a new >> kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, >> 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. >> Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, >> including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. >> You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining >> HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications >> before doing this. >> >> Bailing out now... >> *** Error code 1 >> >> Stop in /usr/src. >> >> >> Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with >> - root access >> - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" >> needs this sort of things? >> >> I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on >> the list.. have I missed something? > > And your complaint would be ... what exactly? > I don't want my OS to treat me like a stupid. -- Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: what happened to make world?
On Thursday 30 August 2007, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > # make world > WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD > installation without also building and installing a new > kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, > 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. > Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, > including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. > You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining > HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications > before doing this. > > Bailing out now... > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with > - root access > - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" > needs this sort of things? > > I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on > the list.. have I missed something? And your complaint would be ... what exactly? -- /"\ Best regards, | [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
what happened to make world?
# make world WARNING: make world will overwrite your existing FreeBSD installation without also building and installing a new kernel. This can be dangerous. Please read the handbook, 'Rebuilding world', for how to upgrade your system. Define DESTDIR to where you want to install FreeBSD, including /, to override this warning and proceed as usual. You may get the historical 'make world' behavior by defining HISTORICAL_MAKE_WORLD. You should understand the implications before doing this. Bailing out now... *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. Now, THIS is quite funny... do you really thing that a person with - root access - the knowledge of the existence of "make world" needs this sort of things? I didn't see anything about this new-wave-of-user-friendly-bsd going on the list.. have I missed something? -- Pietro Cerutti PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
