Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 05.06.2014 02:19, Kevin Oberman wrote: On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:59 AM, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st mailto:freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: On 6/4/2014 09:46, Torsten Zuehlsdorff wrote: I know for certain that people in the past have given up after submitting PRs that were never answered. While I know we don't have the manpower to deal with all of them, that should at least be our ideal. Yes. It is really frustrating to create a bug-report with a complete patch just to wait for some months and seeing that nothing happens. And even after offering help it is closed with timeout and the bug still exists. That's not what a timeout is. Timeout does not mean close the PR regardless after a certain about of time. PRs generally stay open indefinitely unless the problem has been resolved or the situation is obsolete. If what you said occurred, that was wrong. I'd have to see the actual PR to verify no misunderstanding though. I just want to nip in the bud some kind of misconcept about timeouts ... which means (for ports PRs) any committer can taken over the PR and the maintainer has no right to complain about that. The timeout is on the maintainer, not the PR. And yes: trivial bugs are important. If something trivial not work, why use it? So it should be very easy to submit a report. Non-sequitur. Besides trivial being an extremely loaded word that doesn't indicate the true cost of the fix, I see no relation of the severity of said bug versus the reporting process. It would logically follow that critical bugs should therefore be extremely difficult to report, which is, of course, absurd. The process should be the same regardless. John I think that there are two different timeouts involved. 1. Maintainer fails to respond to a port update PR and any committer can pick it up. PR is NOT closed. 2. Committer (possibly maintainer) looks at an old PR for a port that has been updated to a new port version. The commiter is unable to reproduce the problem and asks the submitter to confirm whether it has been fixed. If the submitter fails to respond, the PR is marked as timed out and closed. Neither was. It was a mistake by the comitter. We cleared the problem off-list. I wrote a new patch and it is already in the ports Greetings, Torsten ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/4/2014 02:34, Mark Linimon wrote: On Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 01:50:23PM -0700, Eitan Adler wrote: I don't concede killing anonymous means killing trivial bug reporting, but if that was the case: Oh well, I guess we have to focus on non-trivial bugs. Trivial bugs are important too. I'll echo eadler a bit here, but with a different emphasis. What _I_ consider a trivial bug is based on my own past experiences with FreeBSD. Someone who is new to it and is submitting their first bug may not see it as trivial. We don't wish to discourage them. And the barrier put forth in front of them is a valid email address. So they can't be bothered to provide that, yet simultaneously expect real man-power to be spent of their issue? Really on them personally because they are certainly not reporting for the greater good of the OS at this point. Due to user newness, the issue is more likely to be user error than a real bug, trivial or not. Discouraging people from contributing is counterproductive. We need more contributors, not less. I know for certain that people in the past have given up after submitting PRs that were never answered. While I know we don't have the manpower to deal with all of them, that should at least be our ideal. Give the very real limitation on manpower, we should be realistic -- not idealistic. I too have seen a ton of PRs that are frankly useless. They don't provide any detail other than it doesn't work (symptoms, platform, what they were doing, sometimes what it is...). I'm guessing most of us didn't join for advocacy reasons. I am not going to jump every time somebody sniffs around FreeBSD, and it sounds like this isn't possible to do anyway. So lets help the users that really want help. John ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 04.06.2014 02:34, Mark Linimon wrote: On Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 01:50:23PM -0700, Eitan Adler wrote: I don't concede killing anonymous means killing trivial bug reporting, but if that was the case: Oh well, I guess we have to focus on non-trivial bugs. Trivial bugs are important too. I'll echo eadler a bit here, but with a different emphasis. What _I_ consider a trivial bug is based on my own past experiences with FreeBSD. Someone who is new to it and is submitting their first bug may not see it as trivial. We don't wish to discourage them. Discouraging people from contributing is counterproductive. We need more contributors, not less. I know for certain that people in the past have given up after submitting PRs that were never answered. While I know we don't have the manpower to deal with all of them, that should at least be our ideal. Yes. It is really frustrating to create a bug-report with a complete patch just to wait for some months and seeing that nothing happens. And even after offering help it is closed with timeout and the bug still exists. And yes: trivial bugs are important. If something trivial not work, why use it? So it should be very easy to submit a report. Greetings, Torsten ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/4/2014 09:46, Torsten Zuehlsdorff wrote: I know for certain that people in the past have given up after submitting PRs that were never answered. While I know we don't have the manpower to deal with all of them, that should at least be our ideal. Yes. It is really frustrating to create a bug-report with a complete patch just to wait for some months and seeing that nothing happens. And even after offering help it is closed with timeout and the bug still exists. That's not what a timeout is. Timeout does not mean close the PR regardless after a certain about of time. PRs generally stay open indefinitely unless the problem has been resolved or the situation is obsolete. If what you said occurred, that was wrong. I'd have to see the actual PR to verify no misunderstanding though. I just want to nip in the bud some kind of misconcept about timeouts ... which means (for ports PRs) any committer can taken over the PR and the maintainer has no right to complain about that. The timeout is on the maintainer, not the PR. And yes: trivial bugs are important. If something trivial not work, why use it? So it should be very easy to submit a report. Non-sequitur. Besides trivial being an extremely loaded word that doesn't indicate the true cost of the fix, I see no relation of the severity of said bug versus the reporting process. It would logically follow that critical bugs should therefore be extremely difficult to report, which is, of course, absurd. The process should be the same regardless. John ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/3/2014 7:50 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: On 6/3/14, 5:16 AM, David Chisnall wrote: On 3 Jun 2014, at 13:09, Vitaly Magerya vmage...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. That is correct. The current leaning is towards not providing such functionality as: - It makes spamming easy - If someone can't be bothered to make an account, they are unlikely to provide the feedback required to correctly diagnose the bug. I don't know that this decision is final, but it's certainly unlikely to be high up the priority list to implement it. For FreeBSD 11, we'd like to have an HTTP-based send-pr replacement, which will not be able to enforce a valid email address, but which will at least request one. Although, again, we'll have to be careful to prevent it from being used as a spam tool (send a pr claiming to be from a different email address with a spam message and that person gets notified) and so it will likely add the bug to a private queue where it can be checked for spam before appearing in the main db. Volunteers to be spam filters welcome... I think a bunch of this can be solved by using oauth or something like it. aka: login via github or facebook/twitter. No, no, no, no, no, no. Also, hell no, and good god, man, are you daft? Requiring oauth will literally guarantee me and a whole bunch of other people will never have bugzilla accounts. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 4 June 2014 06:34, Darren Pilgrim list_free...@bluerosetech.com wrote: Requiring oauth will literally guarantee me and a whole bunch of other people will never have bugzilla accounts. I don't think anyone's suggesting oauth would be required. It would just be available as an alternate method for those who don't want to create a bugzilla-specific account. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Jun 4, 2014, at 6:51 AM, Ed Maste ema...@freebsd.org wrote: On 4 June 2014 06:34, Darren Pilgrim list_free...@bluerosetech.com wrote: Requiring oauth will literally guarantee me and a whole bunch of other people will never have bugzilla accounts. I don't think anyone's suggesting oauth would be required. It would just be available as an alternate method for those who don't want to create a bugzilla-specific account. Exactly. Thank you Ed. -Alfred ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 04/06/2014 11:34, Darren Pilgrim wrote: Requiring oauth will literally guarantee me and a whole bunch of other people will never have bugzilla accounts. I don't understand what the problem with logging in is? It surely is a small price to pay for a secure modern bug tracking system? -- Regards, Gary J. Hayers g...@hayers.org PGP Signature http://www.hayers.org/pgp In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/4/14, 9:12 AM, Gary J. Hayers wrote: On 04/06/2014 11:34, Darren Pilgrim wrote: Requiring oauth will literally guarantee me and a whole bunch of other people will never have bugzilla accounts. I don't understand what the problem with logging in is? It surely is a small price to pay for a secure modern bug tracking system? Some people just want to watch FreeBSD burn... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHCdKb5UWc -Alfred ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:59 AM, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: On 6/4/2014 09:46, Torsten Zuehlsdorff wrote: I know for certain that people in the past have given up after submitting PRs that were never answered. While I know we don't have the manpower to deal with all of them, that should at least be our ideal. Yes. It is really frustrating to create a bug-report with a complete patch just to wait for some months and seeing that nothing happens. And even after offering help it is closed with timeout and the bug still exists. That's not what a timeout is. Timeout does not mean close the PR regardless after a certain about of time. PRs generally stay open indefinitely unless the problem has been resolved or the situation is obsolete. If what you said occurred, that was wrong. I'd have to see the actual PR to verify no misunderstanding though. I just want to nip in the bud some kind of misconcept about timeouts ... which means (for ports PRs) any committer can taken over the PR and the maintainer has no right to complain about that. The timeout is on the maintainer, not the PR. And yes: trivial bugs are important. If something trivial not work, why use it? So it should be very easy to submit a report. Non-sequitur. Besides trivial being an extremely loaded word that doesn't indicate the true cost of the fix, I see no relation of the severity of said bug versus the reporting process. It would logically follow that critical bugs should therefore be extremely difficult to report, which is, of course, absurd. The process should be the same regardless. John I think that there are two different timeouts involved. 1. Maintainer fails to respond to a port update PR and any committer can pick it up. PR is NOT closed. 2. Committer (possibly maintainer) looks at an old PR for a port that has been updated to a new port version. The commiter is unable to reproduce the problem and asks the submitter to confirm whether it has been fixed. If the submitter fails to respond, the PR is marked as timed out and closed. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired E-mail: rkober...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 16:13, Michelle Sullivan miche...@sorbs.net wrote: Eitan Adler wrote: On 3 June 2014 10:11, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: ... it's doubtful most folks unwilling to register are about to make a meaningful report... This is *not* the reason for registation. The reason for registation is that we know from experience that having a way to talk with the reporter drastically increases the chance that the bug will get fixed. Registration offers verification of the submitters email. +1 ... actually +~ ... been there done than... at SORBS (attacked on a daily basis at times)... I went with the following that FreeBSD might find useful: ... I'll send you an email offline. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 17:58, Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com wrote: Hi, Postmaster@ webmaster@ are precedents. The orthogonal address should be bugmaster@, (with an alias from bugmeister for the lost). A random German Meister appended to Bug invites a French Maitre for next name. bugmeister@ is precedent. That will discourage response. Some don't have or want net 24/7, nor want to check a web in case someone might have asked for feedback, They get an email. nor want heavy browsers rather than a lightweight mail tool. They can use the CLI Some will want to edit with font style, size, colour, word wrapping, vi keys, preference set by minimal latency localhost. They can use the CLI Good, I've previously encountered people with patches who couldn't be bothered to submit a send-pr. Requiring just web follow up will deter more. Perhaps the reported initial rush may settle down, a mix of pent up demand post switch over, + the trendy who try new things. lets see On 3 June 2014 18:52, Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: Still, it acts as a test of the submitter's determination and indirectly, the quality of the information they give. This isn't about determination or even initial quality of the PR. Its about the ability to know we have a verified mechanism of talking to the reporter. As to another point: Yes. It is really frustrating to create a bug-report with a complete patch just to wait for some months and seeing that nothing happens. And even after offering help it is closed with timeout and the bug still exists. Before we couldn't track this. Now we can. Lets hope we can solve this problem. We still need more people to go through the bugs and fix things. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 2014-06-03 11:05, David Chisnall wrote: We are pleased to announce that the FreeBSD project has begin the transition from the GNATS bug-tracking system to Bugzilla. The Bugzilla installation can be found here: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. No comment-by-email too, as far as I can tell. Are those features gone forever? Can I ask them to be restored, at least in some capacity? ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 Jun 2014, at 13:09, Vitaly Magerya vmage...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. That is correct. The current leaning is towards not providing such functionality as: - It makes spamming easy - If someone can't be bothered to make an account, they are unlikely to provide the feedback required to correctly diagnose the bug. I don't know that this decision is final, but it's certainly unlikely to be high up the priority list to implement it. For FreeBSD 11, we'd like to have an HTTP-based send-pr replacement, which will not be able to enforce a valid email address, but which will at least request one. Although, again, we'll have to be careful to prevent it from being used as a spam tool (send a pr claiming to be from a different email address with a spam message and that person gets notified) and so it will likely add the bug to a private queue where it can be checked for spam before appearing in the main db. Volunteers to be spam filters welcome... No comment-by-email too, as far as I can tell. This is probably going to reappear at some point, if there is sufficient demand for it. David ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 2014-06-03 15:16, David Chisnall wrote: On 3 Jun 2014, at 13:09, Vitaly Magerya vmage...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. That is correct. The current leaning is towards not providing such functionality as: - It makes spamming easy - If someone can't be bothered to make an account, they are unlikely to provide the feedback required to correctly diagnose the bug. Let my protest against such sweeping judgements be noted. No comment-by-email too, as far as I can tell. This is probably going to reappear at some point, if there is sufficient demand for it. I see. Consider me to be expressing the demand then. Anything that would allow me to participate without using an account would be very much appreciated. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/3/2014 14:41, Vitaly Magerya wrote: Anything that would allow me to participate without using an account would be very much appreciated. Why? You've already spent more energy protesting than it would have taken create an account. I have a feeling I'm going to cringe at an honest answer though. No spam please. If that means losing some feedback from anti-account folks, ok. John ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
No comment-by-email too, as far as I can tell. This is probably going to reappear at some point, if there is sufficient demand for it. yes, this is probably a good idea, bug-followup@ or similar. Also, will send-pr still work? Anton ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/3/2014 14:41, Vitaly Magerya wrote: Anything that would allow me to participate without using an account would be very much appreciated. Why? For me it's easier to mail to bug-followup@ and to use send-pr than via an html browser. Indeed, in many cases the failures are such that there is no browser available no more. Using command line, simplest tools, might be best in such cases. Spamming is a problem, but we have to be resourceful and inventive to get the most of the new bugs system. Presumably the person dealing with a PR can easily delete obvious spam replies, or original spam PRs? Apologies if I'm talking bollocks. Anton ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/3/14, 5:16 AM, David Chisnall wrote: On 3 Jun 2014, at 13:09, Vitaly Magerya vmage...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. That is correct. The current leaning is towards not providing such functionality as: - It makes spamming easy - If someone can't be bothered to make an account, they are unlikely to provide the feedback required to correctly diagnose the bug. I don't know that this decision is final, but it's certainly unlikely to be high up the priority list to implement it. For FreeBSD 11, we'd like to have an HTTP-based send-pr replacement, which will not be able to enforce a valid email address, but which will at least request one. Although, again, we'll have to be careful to prevent it from being used as a spam tool (send a pr claiming to be from a different email address with a spam message and that person gets notified) and so it will likely add the bug to a private queue where it can be checked for spam before appearing in the main db. Volunteers to be spam filters welcome... I think a bunch of this can be solved by using oauth or something like it. aka: login via github or facebook/twitter. -Alfred ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 07:50:33 -0700 Alfred Perlstein alf...@freebsd.org wrote: I think a bunch of this can be solved by using oauth or something like it. aka: login via github or facebook/twitter. Why not take it to the higher level, and force all FreeBSD users to replace /etc/master.passwd with Facebook login? :P -- Marko Cupać ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
Alfred Perlstein wrote: On 6/3/14, 5:16 AM, David Chisnall wrote: On 3 Jun 2014, at 13:09, Vitaly Magerya vmage...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. That is correct. The current leaning is towards not providing such functionality as: - It makes spamming easy - If someone can't be bothered to make an account, they are unlikely to provide the feedback required to correctly diagnose the bug. I don't know that this decision is final, but it's certainly unlikely to be high up the priority list to implement it. For FreeBSD 11, we'd like to have an HTTP-based send-pr replacement, which will not be able to enforce a valid email address, but which will at least request one. Although, again, we'll have to be careful to prevent it from being used as a spam tool (send a pr claiming to be from a different email address with a spam message and that person gets notified) and so it will likely add the bug to a private queue where it can be checked for spam before appearing in the main db. Volunteers to be spam filters welcome... I think a bunch of this can be solved by using oauth or something like it. aka: login via github or facebook/twitter. I for one would be highly opposed to it (facebook/twitter etc login) ... 3-4 years ago I went through 7 facebook accounts because of a vindictive little psycho kept reporting all my posts and accounts as abusive specifically to cause Facebook to delete my account... This then blocked the email address and telephone number from being used elsewhere and I lost several associated accounts as a result - including paid for services. I will never use such again, even a court order didn't get the (original) account reinstated or compensated. As for spamming, there are solutions - some make it more difficult than creating an account and logging in. That said I've had my fair share of spam through (verified email) logins... there is no easy solution, only less painful ones. :/ A tool that resides in the base OS for sending bug reports would be a good idea - even better if the tool reports basic OS parameters (uname -a, and an OS unique token) and the connecting IP (as seen by the receiving server) so that spammers cannot abuse it or be easily blocked. Just my $0.02 Michelle (from SORBS) -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
Vitaly Magerya wrote: On 2014-06-03 11:05, David Chisnall wrote: We are pleased to announce that the FreeBSD project has begin the transition from the GNATS bug-tracking system to Bugzilla. The Bugzilla installation can be found here: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. No comment-by-email too, as far as I can tell. Are those features gone forever? Can I ask them to be restored, at least in some capacity? This is the first I have seen this GNATS to Bugzilla subject discussed. GNATS has been working just fine for many years, why the change to Bugzilla? Who makes this kind of change in a vacuum? WHO AUTHORIZED THIS Why was the ports mailing list not included in this before now? ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
Hi! This is the first I have seen this GNATS to Bugzilla subject discussed. It was discussed on https://wiki.freebsd.org/Bugtracking since approx. 2004. GNATS has been working just fine for many years, why the change to Bugzilla? See the wiki page for the details. Who makes this kind of change in a vacuum? It was discussed on the committers list, and some people worked for a long time. WHO AUTHORIZED THIS The first mention to replace gnats with bugzilla apparently was around 2001 (yes, that long ago!) Why was the ports mailing list not included in this before now? It was mentioned on the ports@ list in the past, but there was no real 'driver' mentioned, but now it happened. The BSDCan 2014 meeting was the final trigger to switch over. So, it took a long time and now it happened. It will take a bit to get all the kinks out, but it looks like progress 8-) -- p...@opsec.eu+49 171 3101372 6 years to go ! ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Jun 3, 2014, at 8:23 AM, Michelle Sullivan miche...@sorbs.net wrote: Alfred Perlstein wrote: On 6/3/14, 5:16 AM, David Chisnall wrote: On 3 Jun 2014, at 13:09, Vitaly Magerya vmage...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. That is correct. The current leaning is towards not providing such functionality as: - It makes spamming easy - If someone can't be bothered to make an account, they are unlikely to provide the feedback required to correctly diagnose the bug. I don't know that this decision is final, but it's certainly unlikely to be high up the priority list to implement it. For FreeBSD 11, we'd like to have an HTTP-based send-pr replacement, which will not be able to enforce a valid email address, but which will at least request one. Although, again, we'll have to be careful to prevent it from being used as a spam tool (send a pr claiming to be from a different email address with a spam message and that person gets notified) and so it will likely add the bug to a private queue where it can be checked for spam before appearing in the main db. Volunteers to be spam filters welcome... I think a bunch of this can be solved by using oauth or something like it. aka: login via github or facebook/twitter. I for one would be highly opposed to it (facebook/twitter etc login) ... 3-4 years ago I went through 7 facebook accounts because of a vindictive little psycho kept reporting all my posts and accounts as abusive specifically to cause Facebook to delete my account... This then blocked the email address and telephone number from being used elsewhere and I lost several associated accounts as a result - including paid for services. I will never use such again, even a court order didn't get the (original) account reinstated or compensated. As for spamming, there are solutions - some make it more difficult than creating an account and logging in. That said I've had my fair share of spam through (verified email) logins... there is no easy solution, only less painful ones. :/ A tool that resides in the base OS for sending bug reports would be a good idea - even better if the tool reports basic OS parameters (uname -a, and an OS unique token) and the connecting IP (as seen by the receiving server) so that spammers cannot abuse it or be easily blocked. Just my $0.02 Michelle (from SORBS) -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ All of those parameters can easily be faked. Not sure how that would help. I still think using a form of oauth might help. Other options are email registration that results in an API key that those command line apps can use. That API key can be revoked by the bugzilla admins if needed. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 Jun 2014, at 16:18, Fbsd8 fb...@a1poweruser.com wrote: This is the first I have seen this GNATS to Bugzilla subject discussed. Then you have not been paying attention to any discussions for the past few years. Here, for example, is the Bugmeister team's entry in the status report from Q1 2013: http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2013-01-2013-03.html#FreeBSD-Bugmeister-Team GNATS has been working just fine for many years No it hasn't. It's the most cited reason for people not to report bugs in FreeBSD and a lot of developers simply refuse to learn an antiquated system. Compare the number of bugs closed in the last two days (since Bugzilla went online) to the number in the last year and see. , why the change to Bugzilla? For the reasons outlined on these wiki pages: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Bugtracking/BugRelocationPlan https://wiki.freebsd.org/Bugzilla Who makes this kind of change in a vacuum? No one. The Bugmeister team made the change after spending several *years* consulting with the developer community. WHO AUTHORIZED THIS Core, after discussion with the developer community. Why was the ports mailing list not included in this before now? Huh? The discussions have taken place at DevSummits, on mailing lists, on IRC, and so on. Portmgr was involved in the migration process. They've been summarised in status reports. The one I cited earlier contains this: As always, anybody interested in helping out with the PR queue is welcome to join us in #freebsd-bugbusters on EFnet After many years of calls for help in this, people like Peter and Eitan actually did the (massive amount of) work required to move us to a modern bug-tracking system and *now* you choose to get involved, by screaming abuse at them? David ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
Le mar 3 jui 14 à 17:55:03 +0200, Alfred Perlstein bri...@mu.org écrivait : I still think using a form of oauth might help. OpenID? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenID Regards, -- Th. Thomas. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
2014-06-03 14:16 GMT+02:00 David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: On 3 Jun 2014, at 13:09, Vitaly Magerya vmage...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. That is correct. The current leaning is towards not providing such functionality as: - It makes spamming easy - If someone can't be bothered to make an account, they are unlikely to provide the feedback required to correctly diagnose the bug. I don't know that this decision is final, but it's certainly unlikely to be high up the priority list to implement it. For FreeBSD 11, we'd like to have an HTTP-based send-pr replacement, which will not be able to enforce a valid email address, but which will at least request one. Although, again, we'll have to be careful to prevent it from being used as a spam tool (send a pr claiming to be from a different email address with a spam message and that person gets notified) and so it will likely add the bug to a private queue where it can be checked for spam before appearing in the main db. Volunteers to be spam filters welcome... Please reconsider this. I have come up with bug reports for various projects only to find out that I'd need YET ANOTHER FRIGGING PASSWORD just to send them my bug report. In the end, the report was not send, as yes, I cannot be bothered to create another account that I'll use essentially for sending an email. I'm surely not the only one avoiding even more accounts and password. At the very least think about implementing OAuth/OpenID or whatever it's called this days. A mood point for me, as I'll need a full account, but the Project should not make reporting bugs harder than it is already ... have you considered using reCATPCHA or something to fend of at least some of the spam? Cheers and thanks for the migration!! Uli ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 03/06/2014 13:16, David Chisnall wrote: Volunteers to be spam filters welcome... Here's one :) -- Regards, Gary J. Hayers g...@hayers.org PGP Signature http://www.hayers.org/pgp In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/3/2014 18:57, Ulrich Spörlein wrote: 2014-06-03 14:16 GMT+02:00 David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: A mood point for me, as I'll need a full account, but the Project should not make reporting bugs harder than it is already ... have you considered using reCATPCHA or something to fend of at least some of the spam? Both ineffective and highly annoying continuously, not just one time like registration is. If there's a vote between captcha-any-flavor and registration, I'll vote for the latter every single time. I'm with Chisnall - it's doubtful most folks unwilling to register are about to make a meaningful report. And it's pretty much the standard today. What can you still post on anonymously / no registration that isn't policed by humans 24/7? Not much that I can think of. John ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 03 Jun 2014, at 19:11, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: On 6/3/2014 18:57, Ulrich Spörlein wrote: 2014-06-03 14:16 GMT+02:00 David Chisnall thera...@freebsd.org: A mood point for me, as I'll need a full account, but the Project should not make reporting bugs harder than it is already ... have you considered using reCATPCHA or something to fend of at least some of the spam? Both ineffective and highly annoying continuously, not just one time like registration is. If there's a vote between captcha-any-flavor and registration, I'll vote for the latter every single time. I'm with Chisnall - it's doubtful most folks unwilling to register are about to make a meaningful report. And it's pretty much the standard today. What can you still post on anonymously / no registration that isn't policed by humans 24/7? Not much that I can Phabric.freebsd.org also allows to sign up using github and twitter, I would like to see the same for bugzilla (and maybe some other option like g+). ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 10:11, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: ... it's doubtful most folks unwilling to register are about to make a meaningful report... This is *not* the reason for registation. The reason for registation is that we know from experience that having a way to talk with the reporter drastically increases the chance that the bug will get fixed. Registration offers verification of the submitters email. We would rather get fewer higher quality and more engaged bugs than what we've had in the past where bugs were a one way vent. To preempt the next question: why don't we allow users to submit via email but verify with a token? That system isn't possible with how the gateway is set up now. Its a long term possability. If someone wants to help set that up please contact me offline (at bugmeister@). What about bug followups via email? That one won't be supported for a bit as we get used to bugzilla. It certainly on the cards to support in the future. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 11:11:29AM -0700, Eitan Adler wrote: What about bug followups via email? That one won't be supported for a bit as we get used to bugzilla. It certainly on the cards to support in the future. I initially thought this would be a problem for me, but even in 24 hours of working with it, I've wrapped my head around it. I agree IWBN long-term. OTOH I will state as prior long-term GNATS maintainer that several times a week the email discussions had to be edited and/or forwarded to make sure they showed up in the Audit-Trail. That's been going on for years. It's a task I won't miss. mcl ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
Am 03.06.2014 14:09, schrieb Vitaly Magerya: On 2014-06-03 11:05, David Chisnall wrote: We are pleased to announce that the FreeBSD project has begin the transition from the GNATS bug-tracking system to Bugzilla. The Bugzilla installation can be found here: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ It doesn't seem to be possible to post comments (or bugs) without creating an account and logging in. No comment-by-email too, as far as I can tell. I'd cast a vote against such features. I've made that experiment upstream in a project unrelated to FreeBSD, and received too many hit-and-run-style bug reports of anonymous posters that were insufficient. I asked questions back and did not receive a response, for whatever reason - and if that the reporter never checked if I commented on their bug, frustration, having moved on to other projects, you never know. Wasted time for bugs never found, never fixed. While having a valid-looking email address from a submitter does not guarantee a reply when developers have further questions, at least it raises the chance that the submitter (reporter) knows more information is needed. Surely there may be valid and sometimes useful comments by people who aren't the original reporter, but for the common case that the bug evolves into a discussion between a developer and a reporter having a valid BIDIRECTIONAL communications channel up front helps a lot. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
Matthias Andree wrote: Surely there may be valid and sometimes useful comments by people who aren't the original reporter, but for the common case that the bug evolves into a discussion between a developer and a reporter having a valid BIDIRECTIONAL communications channel up front helps a lot. I would venture that docs bugs and certain classes of website bugs rarely have communications. For example: https://bugs.freebsd.org/86522 https://bugs.freebsd.org/163733 https://bugs.freebsd.org/182551 Those bugs would simply not have been submitted if I had to create an account first. I strongly support anonymous bug reporting, but I'm not interested in a protracted discussion on it. The comitters can decide if they want trivial bugs reported or not as they prefer. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 6/3/2014 22:06, Stephen Hurd wrote: Matthias Andree wrote: Surely there may be valid and sometimes useful comments by people who aren't the original reporter, but for the common case that the bug evolves into a discussion between a developer and a reporter having a valid BIDIRECTIONAL communications channel up front helps a lot. I would venture that docs bugs and certain classes of website bugs rarely have communications. For example: Those bugs would simply not have been submitted if I had to create an account first. If the submitter's interest in getting the bug known in order to be fixed exceeds the distaste for registration, then yes, the report would still get submitted. (For example, if that person *really* wants to access FreeBSD forums via IPv6 and nobody knows it's busted, they would probably bite the bullet). If nobody else that has an account already bothers to report it, it must not really be that big of an issue. I strongly support anonymous bug reporting, but I'm not interested in a protracted discussion on it. The comitters can decide if they want trivial bugs reported or not as they prefer. I don't concede killing anonymous means killing trivial bug reporting, but if that was the case: Oh well, I guess we have to focus on non-trivial bugs. John ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 13:41, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: On 6/3/2014 22:06, Stephen Hurd wrote: Matthias Andree wrote: Surely there may be valid and sometimes useful comments by people who aren't the original reporter, but for the common case that the bug evolves into a discussion between a developer and a reporter having a valid BIDIRECTIONAL communications channel up front helps a lot. I would venture that docs bugs and certain classes of website bugs rarely have communications. For example: Those bugs would simply not have been submitted if I had to create an account first. This is a legitimite concern. This is exactly why we have anonymous bug reporting on at the moment. On the hand we're *already* seeing tens of spam per hour via this exact mechanism. If the submitter's interest in getting the bug known in order to be fixed exceeds the distaste for registration, then yes, the report would still get submitted. This is true. (For example, if that person *really* wants to access FreeBSD forums via IPv6 and nobody knows it's busted, they would probably bite the bullet). There are also other mechanisms. For example, mailing lists. If nobody else that has an account already bothers to report it, it must not really be that big of an issue. This is the wrong rhetoric to be using here. We explicitly *don't* believe this is true. The concern from bugmeister's side is that we want to make sure that the bug database is *useful*. We know that some low-effort no-reply-needed bugs come in. This is true for both ports and doc. It is slightly less true in src but not non-existent in source. On the other hand the question is does this value outweigh the the value of knowing that the submitter has a valid email address. I strongly support anonymous bug reporting, but I'm not interested in a protracted discussion on it. The comitters can decide if they want trivial bugs reported or not as they prefer. At the moment this is absolutely enabled. On the other hand we will be closely watching these types of bugs. I'm not sure we have meta-data to track the source of an account (anon-report, or not) but we will soon. I don't concede killing anonymous means killing trivial bug reporting, but if that was the case: Oh well, I guess we have to focus on non-trivial bugs. Trivial bugs are important too. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 03 Jun 2014, at 22:41, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: On 6/3/2014 22:06, Stephen Hurd wrote: Matthias Andree wrote: Surely there may be valid and sometimes useful comments by people who aren't the original reporter, but for the common case that the bug evolves into a discussion between a developer and a reporter having a valid BIDIRECTIONAL communications channel up front helps a lot. I would venture that docs bugs and certain classes of website bugs rarely have communications. For example: Those bugs would simply not have been submitted if I had to create an account first. If the submitter's interest in getting the bug known in order to be fixed exceeds the distaste for registration, then yes, the report would still get submitted. (For example, if that person *really* wants to access FreeBSD forums via IPv6 and nobody knows it's busted, they would probably bite the bullet). Ah, is that the reason why I had so many issues with it lately? Could bugzilla maybe allow email verified submissions without an account? So you report a bug with your email address and have to click verify in an email response to get it to a state people will look at it. That would eliminate the whole oh no, one more account/password hassle, but reduce spam and lack of working back channels. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 13:51, Michael Gmelin gre...@freebsd.org wrote: On 03 Jun 2014, at 22:41, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: On 6/3/2014 22:06, Stephen Hurd wrote: Matthias Andree wrote: Surely there may be valid and sometimes useful comments by people who aren't the original reporter, but for the common case that the bug evolves into a discussion between a developer and a reporter having a valid BIDIRECTIONAL communications channel up front helps a lot. I would venture that docs bugs and certain classes of website bugs rarely have communications. For example: Those bugs would simply not have been submitted if I had to create an account first. If the submitter's interest in getting the bug known in order to be fixed exceeds the distaste for registration, then yes, the report would still get submitted. (For example, if that person *really* wants to access FreeBSD forums via IPv6 and nobody knows it's busted, they would probably bite the bullet). Ah, is that the reason why I had so many issues with it lately? Duno. If you can, please file a bug and let us know :) Could bugzilla maybe allow email verified submissions without an account? So you report a bug with your email address and have to click verify in an email response to get it to a state people will look at it. That would eliminate the whole oh no, one more account/password hassle, but reduce spam and lack of working back channels. See above: === To preempt the next question: why don't we allow users to submit via email but verify with a token? That system isn't possible with how the gateway is set up now. Its a long term possability. If someone wants to help set that up please contact me offline (at bugmeister@). === -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 03 Jun 2014, at 22:52, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: On 3 June 2014 13:51, Michael Gmelin gre...@freebsd.org wrote: On 03 Jun 2014, at 22:41, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: On 6/3/2014 22:06, Stephen Hurd wrote: Matthias Andree wrote: Surely there may be valid and sometimes useful comments by people who aren't the original reporter, but for the common case that the bug evolves into a discussion between a developer and a reporter having a valid BIDIRECTIONAL communications channel up front helps a lot. I would venture that docs bugs and certain classes of website bugs rarely have communications. For example: Those bugs would simply not have been submitted if I had to create an account first. If the submitter's interest in getting the bug known in order to be fixed exceeds the distaste for registration, then yes, the report would still get submitted. (For example, if that person *really* wants to access FreeBSD forums via IPv6 and nobody knows it's busted, they would probably bite the bullet). Ah, is that the reason why I had so many issues with it lately? Duno. If you can, please file a bug and let us know :) Will test later from my home line... Could bugzilla maybe allow email verified submissions without an account? So you report a bug with your email address and have to click verify in an email response to get it to a state people will look at it. That would eliminate the whole oh no, one more account/password hassle, but reduce spam and lack of working back channels. See above: === To preempt the next question: why don't we allow users to submit via email but verify with a token? That system isn't possible with how the gateway is set up now. Its a long term possability. If someone wants to help set that up please contact me offline (at bugmeister@). === Well, I didn't mean *via* email, but specifying a valid email address in a web form. This could be done using the old web form on freebsd.org and using an email verification loop that holds submissions outside of bugzilla until the verification link has been clicked. I don't know any details of the current setup, but I would assume this is quite doable. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 10:11, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: ... it's doubtful most folks unwilling to register are about to make a meaningful report... This is *not* the reason for registation. The reason for registation is that we know from experience that having a way to talk with the reporter drastically increases the chance that the bug will get fixed. Registration offers verification of the submitters email. We would rather get fewer higher quality and more engaged bugs than what we've had in the past where bugs were a one way vent. To preempt the next question: why don't we allow users to submit via email but verify with a token? That system isn't possible with how the gateway is set up now. Its a long term possability. If someone wants to help set that up please contact me offline (at bugmeister@). What about bug followups via email? That one won't be supported for a bit as we get used to bugzilla. It certainly on the cards to support in the future. Will send-pr continue to work or not? Anton ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 14:40, Anton Shterenlikht me...@bris.ac.uk wrote: Will send-pr continue to work or not? From the announce email === The send-pr script will continue functioning as a compatibility interface, but it is not guaranteed to run in a timely fashion (currently, importing bugs submitted via send-pr involves a manual step). === -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
There are also other mechanisms. For example, mailing lists. We were repeatedly told in this list that the preferred way to let people know of the issue is to file a PR. Posting something to ports@ is the easiest route (for me, at least), however, I take the trouble to use the send-pr route. Registration is not the issue, it's the need to login every time and having to store yet another passwd that is frustrating. I get the spam issue, but perhaps the fact that the ability to send PRs with no extra login step is highly valued by some, deserves another thought. Anton ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
Could bugzilla maybe allow email verified submissions without an account? So you report a bug with your email address and have to click verify in an email response to get it to a state people will look at it. That would eliminate the whole oh no, one more account/password hassle, but reduce spam and lack of working back channels. Or what about a concept of a registered FreeBSD user? Some sort of a database of users known to the project. So that the info in send-pr will be enough to accept a PR, perhaps with another id field or similar? This still wouldn't allow anonymous posting, but will remove the need to login each time. Anton ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Tue, 3 Jun 2014 13:52:36 -0700 Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: On 3 June 2014 13:51, Michael Gmelin gre...@freebsd.org wrote: On 03 Jun 2014, at 22:41, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: On 6/3/2014 22:06, Stephen Hurd wrote: Matthias Andree wrote: Surely there may be valid and sometimes useful comments by people who aren't the original reporter, but for the common case that the bug evolves into a discussion between a developer and a reporter having a valid BIDIRECTIONAL communications channel up front helps a lot. I would venture that docs bugs and certain classes of website bugs rarely have communications. For example: Those bugs would simply not have been submitted if I had to create an account first. If the submitter's interest in getting the bug known in order to be fixed exceeds the distaste for registration, then yes, the report would still get submitted. (For example, if that person *really* wants to access FreeBSD forums via IPv6 and nobody knows it's busted, they would probably bite the bullet). Ah, is that the reason why I had so many issues with it lately? Duno. If you can, please file a bug and let us know :) Yep, seems like IPv6 is broken. Got my bugzilla account working, but couldn't find the forums as a component. Opened a bug to get the component in so I can file a bug :) -- Michael Gmelin ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 15:03, Anton Shterenlikht me...@bris.ac.uk wrote: Could bugzilla maybe allow email verified submissions without an account? So you report a bug with your email address and have to click verify in an email response to get it to a state people will look at it. That would eliminate the whole oh no, one more account/password hassle, but reduce spam and lack of working back channels. Or what about a concept of a registered FreeBSD user? Some sort of a database of users known to the project. So that the info in send-pr will be enough to accept a PR, perhaps with another id field or similar? This exits. send-pr will use your email account if it exists. This still wouldn't allow anonymous posting, but will remove the need to login each time. An interesting idea would be to have send-pr reject email from accounts that don't exist (as opposed to creating them). We'll consider this as time goes on. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On 3 June 2014 14:58, Anton Shterenlikht me...@bris.ac.uk wrote: There are also other mechanisms. For example, mailing lists. We were repeatedly told in this list that the preferred way to let people know of the issue is to file a PR. Posting something to ports@ is the easiest route (for me, at least), however, I take the trouble to use the send-pr route. Registration is not the issue, it's the need to login every time and having to store yet another passwd that is frustrating. We understand this. We expected this. I hope you understand our concern about the need to have an email that confirmed valid. At the moment anon-email works. We will be closely watching this space. I get the spam issue, but perhaps the fact that the ability to send PRs with no extra login step is highly valued by some, deserves another thought. This isn't about spam but about the need to engage bug reporters. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
Eitan Adler wrote: On 3 June 2014 10:11, John Marino freebsd.cont...@marino.st wrote: ... it's doubtful most folks unwilling to register are about to make a meaningful report... This is *not* the reason for registation. The reason for registation is that we know from experience that having a way to talk with the reporter drastically increases the chance that the bug will get fixed. Registration offers verification of the submitters email. +1 ... actually +~ ... been there done than... at SORBS (attacked on a daily basis at times)... I went with the following that FreeBSD might find useful: 1/ No login, no information (static pages only) 2/ No Login + Catpcha (self generated, tho reCaptcha would work), limited information and rate limiting (on IP address) 3/ Login - email verified, admin *not verified* (ie general user) .. a little more information than in (2) and rate limits increased (and not limited to IP - though changing IP will require re-login). 4/ Login - email verified - admin verified (ie: privileged user) .. full (almost - based on permissions) access... rate limiting removed. how I could see that apply to FreeBSD (using the same numbering): 1/ static pages only 2/ can view a bug (and *maybe* log a bug - a single bug per day/week/month) 3/ can log a bug and view a bug 4/ can work on a bug, log a bug and view a bug. We would rather get fewer higher quality and more engaged bugs than what we've had in the past where bugs were a one way vent. To preempt the next question: why don't we allow users to submit via email but verify with a token? That system isn't possible with how the gateway is set up now. Its a long term possability. If someone wants to help set that up please contact me offline (at bugmeister@). I'm happy to help setup all sorts of anti-spam systems - feel free to mail me offlist. What about bug followups via email? Possibly a problem (but not really - if you're not the originator of the bug, and not logged in, you can't update it at all..) That one won't be supported for a bit as we get used to bugzilla. It certainly on the cards to support in the future. Michelle -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 10:59:54PM +0200, Michael Gmelin wrote: Well, I didn't mean *via* email, but specifying a valid email address in a web form. This could be done using the old web form on freebsd.org and using an email verification loop Hmm. Well, I think we're really hoping to deorbit the old code as soon as feasible. It's held together with hot-glue and baling wire. mcl ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 01:50:23PM -0700, Eitan Adler wrote: I don't concede killing anonymous means killing trivial bug reporting, but if that was the case: Oh well, I guess we have to focus on non-trivial bugs. Trivial bugs are important too. I'll echo eadler a bit here, but with a different emphasis. What _I_ consider a trivial bug is based on my own past experiences with FreeBSD. Someone who is new to it and is submitting their first bug may not see it as trivial. We don't wish to discourage them. Discouraging people from contributing is counterproductive. We need more contributors, not less. I know for certain that people in the past have given up after submitting PRs that were never answered. While I know we don't have the manpower to deal with all of them, that should at least be our ideal. mcl ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD bug tracking moves from GNATS to Bugzilla
On Tue, 3 Jun 2014, Stephen Hurd wrote: I would venture that docs bugs and certain classes of website bugs rarely have communications. For example: ... There are trivial bugs in any class, but it's a mistake to think that most of any particular class are that way. I do agree that some trivial bugs will be lost due to the submitter not wanting to create Yet Another Account(TM). Still, it acts as a test of the submitter's determination and indirectly, the quality of the information they give. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
