Re: deprecated ports
That said, I think that un-deprecating these ports just because someone can find a distfile somewhere is the wrong approach. bapt has been very careful to only deprecate ports that are on the absolute bottom of the pile. They are unmaintained, and unfetchable. That's not completely accurate. Some ports were deprecated because their distfiles had been moved, sometimes to another directory on the same server, but this went unnoticed because the distfiles were mirrored locally. I see a few others, some of them standard packages, that were caught in the net for various reasons -- one because someone had compressed the local copies of the distfiles, and then marked the Makefile so that only the compressed versions that were not present upstream would be fetched; another, still fetchable and with a reachable homepage, was deprecated presumably because it had a few bad mirrors. I'll fix these. There is certainly a lot that could and should be cleaned up, and it is difficult for one person to do this without making a few mistakes -- I'm glad that Bapt was willing to make the attempt. But it's not clear to me why, for example, some usable fonts were deprecated -- fonts often don't have homepages. b. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
Am 15.03.2011 23:19, schrieb Baptiste Daroussin: 2011/3/15 Charlie Kestercorky1...@comcast.net I see there's been another few batch commits deprecating some unmaintained ports where upstream is gone and/or distfile is no longer available. Maintainers and prospective maintainers should be sure to look at the ports listed in these commits. I don't think much effort was made to check the availability of the distfiles. Instead, it seems that all that was done was to try the MASTER_SITES, etc. from the port Makefiles, and if the fetch failed, onto the list they went. NOTE: I'm NOT saying the committers' procedure was too lazy or anything like that. There are a lot of these broken ports in the tree, and deprecation seems like a reasonable step to take -- especially if the result is to trigger some action from people who want to see these ports retained. I just rescued one of these, sysutils/lookat, that was deprecated a few days ago. I followed the WWW link in the pkg-descr, found that the author's website was still up and that the distfile could still be downloaded -- but the download url had changed. So all the port needed was a tweak to the MASTER_SITES. Today I see that the fairly popular graphics/gimpshop has also been deprecated. Here the WWW link from pkg-descr also fails, but a quick websearch found the new (?) official website for this app: http://www.gimpshop.com, where the distfile is available for download. So here's another one that can be easily rescued. And I'll bet there are more. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I am responsible for the deprecation and I have done more than just look if the distfiles fetch (I fixed lot of them) I may have missed some for sure, when when I deprecate sysutils/lookat I wasn't able to join the main website nor to fetch a distfile. About gimpshop it may be wrong, but one there website I only found windows and mac binaries, nothing. I am human and I can make mistakes. thanks pointing the mistakes. I really will be happy to remove the deprecation and expiration if people wanted to maintain or point me to the right WWW and MASTER_SITES for the given ports. Baptiste, I generally agree with your approach, and as Doug pointed out, it has worked out fine. Those ports that people had interest in triggered, for instance, Charlie's response. However, we should be sure to find maintainers before ports are undeprecated, else we run into a cycle of deprecation, reviving the port, deprecating it again, and so on. Charlie has stated which ports he isn't interested in (and I haven't checked if there are any left where we could offer him maintainership). For anyone who reads this and is unhappy about the deprecation of a pet port, please feel invited to become a port maintainer -- the porter's handbook has lots of information, and port committers will likely be willing to lend a hand with a new maintainer's first steps. :-) Best regards Matthias -- Matthias Andree ports committer ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
2011/3/16 Matthias Andree mand...@freebsd.org Baptiste, I generally agree with your approach, and as Doug pointed out, it has worked out fine. Those ports that people had interest in triggered, for instance, Charlie's response. However, we should be sure to find maintainers before ports are undeprecated, else we run into a cycle of deprecation, reviving the port, deprecating it again, and so on. Charlie has stated which ports he isn't interested in (and I haven't checked if there are any left where we could offer him maintainership). For anyone who reads this and is unhappy about the deprecation of a pet port, please feel invited to become a port maintainer -- the porter's handbook has lots of information, and port committers will likely be willing to lend a hand with a new maintainer's first steps. :-) Yes your right I was planning to send a general mailing at the end of my seek and deprecate campaign inviting users and maintainer to have a look a the deprecation list and adopt the ports they use. regards, Bapt ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 11:45:25AM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: However, we should be sure to find maintainers before ports are undeprecated, else we run into a cycle of deprecation, reviving the port, deprecating it again, and so on. That's the purpose of a long deprecation period + the period emails from portsmon about deprecated ports. The next one of those is scheduled in the next few days. (Remember, too, that deleted ports can always be brought back from the Attic, if there is sufficient cause.) mcl ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 06:15:11AM +, b. f. wrote: But it's not clear to me why, for example, some usable fonts were deprecated -- fonts often don't have homepages. The deprecations are (currently) advisory-only. If people are using these ports, and want to keep them, then they need to step up with either hosting the distfiles, becoming the upstream maintainers, or in the best case, both. mcl ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
--On March 16, 2011 6:15:11 AM + b. f. bf1...@googlemail.com wrote: That said, I think that un-deprecating these ports just because someone can find a distfile somewhere is the wrong approach. bapt has been very careful to only deprecate ports that are on the absolute bottom of the pile. They are unmaintained, and unfetchable. That's not completely accurate. Some ports were deprecated because their distfiles had been moved, sometimes to another directory on the same server, but this went unnoticed because the distfiles were mirrored locally. I think the point is that if the ports were maintained properly, those changes would not go unnoticed. For example, I maintain a port named security/chaosreader. Recently it failed to build, after which I promptly got an email notification. I quickly figured out that one of the files that needs to be downloaded had been moved to a different uri on sourceforge, updated the port and submitted a PR. That's how it's *supposed* to work. When a port become unmaintained, that doesn't happen. While it's true that some good ports might get caught in the sweep, the reality is that if someone was maintaining them they wouldn't get deprecated. The ports system depends on active maintainers and breaks down when maintainers are inactive. -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead. Thomas Jefferson There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them. George Orwell ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
On Wed 16 Mar 2011 at 03:45:25 PDT Matthias Andree wrote: However, we should be sure to find maintainers before ports are undeprecated, else we run into a cycle of deprecation, reviving the port, deprecating it again, and so on. I definitely agree with this. If someone wants to get one of these ports off the deprecated list, they should be willing to maintain it. I'm willing to take on more myself, but I'm not running a home for orphaned ports here. There has to be something about the port that interests me. I'm fond of commandline tools and ncurses-based interfaces, for example, which is why I took lookat. We have far too many unmaintained ports in the tree. I applaud this effort to weed out the stale ones. I certainly didn't intend for my comments re gimpshop, xinvest and xquote to lead to them being pulled off the deprecated list but still unmaintained. If no one else wants them, I'll take xinvest and xquote, since I'm responsible for their current status. But I'm leery of the whole gimp-y swamp. If I took gimpshop, I'd probably be in over my head. So I hope you'll understand if I decline. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
Ruslan Mahmatkhanov wrote: I also saw that graphics/gimp-greycstoration is finally deprecated. Baptiste you may want to look at ports/154596 to close it. In fact this is an interesting plugin which is superseded by gmic from the same author David Tschumperlé http://gmic.sourceforge.net/gimp.shtml and which is in the ports. So this deprecation is fine. -- Michel TALON ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 02:58:01PM -0700, Charlie Kester thus spake: I see there's been another few batch commits deprecating some unmaintained ports where upstream is gone and/or distfile is no longer available. Maintainers and prospective maintainers should be sure to look at the ports listed in these commits. I don't think much effort was made to check the availability of the distfiles. Instead, it seems that all that was done was to try the MASTER_SITES, etc. from the port Makefiles, and if the fetch failed, onto the list they went. NOTE: I'm NOT saying the committers' procedure was too lazy or anything like that. There are a lot of these broken ports in the tree, and deprecation seems like a reasonable step to take -- especially if the result is to trigger some action from people who want to see these ports retained. I just rescued one of these, sysutils/lookat, that was deprecated a few days ago. I followed the WWW link in the pkg-descr, found that the author's website was still up and that the distfile could still be downloaded -- but the download url had changed. So all the port needed was a tweak to the MASTER_SITES. Today I see that the fairly popular graphics/gimpshop has also been deprecated. Here the WWW link from pkg-descr also fails, but a quick websearch found the new (?) official website for this app: http://www.gimpshop.com, where the distfile is available for download. So here's another one that can be easily rescued. And I'll bet there are more. To this point I just found another: sysutils/idled was just deprecated the other day. In following some weblinks, I found that doinkd has replaced it: sysutils/doinkd :) Maybe the DEPRECATION line should be altered. -jgh ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 14:59:57 PDT Jason Helfman wrote: On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 02:58:01PM -0700, Charlie Kester thus spake: I see there's been another few batch commits deprecating some unmaintained ports where upstream is gone and/or distfile is no longer available. Maintainers and prospective maintainers should be sure to look at the ports listed in these commits. I don't think much effort was made to check the availability of the distfiles. Instead, it seems that all that was done was to try the MASTER_SITES, etc. from the port Makefiles, and if the fetch failed, onto the list they went. NOTE: I'm NOT saying the committers' procedure was too lazy or anything like that. There are a lot of these broken ports in the tree, and deprecation seems like a reasonable step to take -- especially if the result is to trigger some action from people who want to see these ports retained. I just rescued one of these, sysutils/lookat, that was deprecated a few days ago. I followed the WWW link in the pkg-descr, found that the author's website was still up and that the distfile could still be downloaded -- but the download url had changed. So all the port needed was a tweak to the MASTER_SITES. Today I see that the fairly popular graphics/gimpshop has also been deprecated. Here the WWW link from pkg-descr also fails, but a quick websearch found the new (?) official website for this app: http://www.gimpshop.com, where the distfile is available for download. So here's another one that can be easily rescued. And I'll bet there are more. To this point I just found another: sysutils/idled was just deprecated the other day. In following some weblinks, I found that doinkd has replaced it: sysutils/doinkd :) Maybe the DEPRECATION line should be altered. Two more found with a simple web query: finance/xinvest and finance/xquote are now on sourceforge. http://xinvest.sourceforge.net/ BTW, I don't use either of these, or gimpshop, so I'm not going to fix the ports myself. Instead, I'll leave that to anyone who's interested. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
2011/3/15 Charlie Kester corky1...@comcast.net I see there's been another few batch commits deprecating some unmaintained ports where upstream is gone and/or distfile is no longer available. Maintainers and prospective maintainers should be sure to look at the ports listed in these commits. I don't think much effort was made to check the availability of the distfiles. Instead, it seems that all that was done was to try the MASTER_SITES, etc. from the port Makefiles, and if the fetch failed, onto the list they went. NOTE: I'm NOT saying the committers' procedure was too lazy or anything like that. There are a lot of these broken ports in the tree, and deprecation seems like a reasonable step to take -- especially if the result is to trigger some action from people who want to see these ports retained. I just rescued one of these, sysutils/lookat, that was deprecated a few days ago. I followed the WWW link in the pkg-descr, found that the author's website was still up and that the distfile could still be downloaded -- but the download url had changed. So all the port needed was a tweak to the MASTER_SITES. Today I see that the fairly popular graphics/gimpshop has also been deprecated. Here the WWW link from pkg-descr also fails, but a quick websearch found the new (?) official website for this app: http://www.gimpshop.com, where the distfile is available for download. So here's another one that can be easily rescued. And I'll bet there are more. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I am responsible for the deprecation and I have done more than just look if the distfiles fetch (I fixed lot of them) I may have missed some for sure, when when I deprecate sysutils/lookat I wasn't able to join the main website nor to fetch a distfile. About gimpshop it may be wrong, but one there website I only found windows and mac binaries, nothing. I am human and I can make mistakes. thanks pointing the mistakes. I really will be happy to remove the deprecation and expiration if people wanted to maintain or point me to the right WWW and MASTER_SITES for the given ports. regards, Bapt ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
2011/3/15 Charlie Kester corky1...@comcast.net On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 14:59:57 PDT Jason Helfman wrote: On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 02:58:01PM -0700, Charlie Kester thus spake: I see there's been another few batch commits deprecating some unmaintained ports where upstream is gone and/or distfile is no longer available. Maintainers and prospective maintainers should be sure to look at the ports listed in these commits. I don't think much effort was made to check the availability of the distfiles. Instead, it seems that all that was done was to try the MASTER_SITES, etc. from the port Makefiles, and if the fetch failed, onto the list they went. NOTE: I'm NOT saying the committers' procedure was too lazy or anything like that. There are a lot of these broken ports in the tree, and deprecation seems like a reasonable step to take -- especially if the result is to trigger some action from people who want to see these ports retained. I just rescued one of these, sysutils/lookat, that was deprecated a few days ago. I followed the WWW link in the pkg-descr, found that the author's website was still up and that the distfile could still be downloaded -- but the download url had changed. So all the port needed was a tweak to the MASTER_SITES. Today I see that the fairly popular graphics/gimpshop has also been deprecated. Here the WWW link from pkg-descr also fails, but a quick websearch found the new (?) official website for this app: http://www.gimpshop.com, where the distfile is available for download. So here's another one that can be easily rescued. And I'll bet there are more. To this point I just found another: sysutils/idled was just deprecated the other day. In following some weblinks, I found that doinkd has replaced it: sysutils/doinkd :) Maybe the DEPRECATION line should be altered. Two more found with a simple web query: finance/xinvest and finance/xquote are now on sourceforge. http://xinvest.sourceforge.net/ BTW, I don't use either of these, or gimpshop, so I'm not going to fix the ports myself. Instead, I'll leave that to anyone who's interested. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Concerning those two try to follow a single link on the main website, they are all broken and I tested them. The workaround would have been to goes from the sourceforge interface to the project page instead of being confident on the website of the project (normally non stalled project have working websites). But you are right I should have gone the the sourceforge project page and then try to download the files. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 15:19:29 PDT Baptiste Daroussin wrote: I am responsible for the deprecation and I have done more than just look if the distfiles fetch (I fixed lot of them) I may have missed some for sure, when when I deprecate sysutils/lookat I wasn't able to join the main website nor to fetch a distfile. About gimpshop it may be wrong, but one there website I only found windows and mac binaries, nothing. I am human and I can make mistakes. thanks pointing the mistakes. I really will be happy to remove the deprecation and expiration if people wanted to maintain or point me to the right WWW and MASTER_SITES for the given ports. regards,* Bapt My apologies for misrepresenting your efforts, bapt. I meant no disrespect. I'm just trying to whip up some followup action from the readers, so you don't have to do all this by yourself. :) We've recently heard calls for new blood. Well, here's a way people can help. Maybe it wasn't there when you looked, but http://www.gimpshop.com/download.shtml has links to download sources for both the development version and the latest release (2.2.8). They even have an alternate link for the release version. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
2011/3/15 Charlie Kester corky1...@comcast.net On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 15:19:29 PDT Baptiste Daroussin wrote: I am responsible for the deprecation and I have done more than just look if the distfiles fetch (I fixed lot of them) I may have missed some for sure, when when I deprecate sysutils/lookat I wasn't able to join the main website nor to fetch a distfile. About gimpshop it may be wrong, but one there website I only found windows and mac binaries, nothing. I am human and I can make mistakes. thanks pointing the mistakes. I really will be happy to remove the deprecation and expiration if people wanted to maintain or point me to the right WWW and MASTER_SITES for the given ports. regards,* Bapt My apologies for misrepresenting your efforts, bapt. I meant no disrespect. I'm just trying to whip up some followup action from the readers, so you don't have to do all this by yourself. :) We've recently heard calls for new blood. Well, here's a way people can help. Maybe it wasn't there when you looked, but http://www.gimpshop.com/download.shtml has links to download sources for both the development version and the latest release (2.2.8). They even have an alternate link for the release version. ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Sorry, I misunderstood your mail, this is fixt thanks for the report. regards. Bapt ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
On 03/15/2011 15:16, Charlie Kester wrote: BTW, I don't use either of these, or gimpshop, so I'm not going to fix the ports myself. Instead, I'll leave that to anyone who's interested. Charlie, I think you've been very diplomatic in your approach, so to be clear I don't have a problem with either the content or method of your messages. That said, I think that un-deprecating these ports just because someone can find a distfile somewhere is the wrong approach. bapt has been very careful to only deprecate ports that are on the absolute bottom of the pile. They are unmaintained, and unfetchable. That's generally a very good indication that they are also unused. Thus marking them deprecated to see if anyone picks them up, and then removing them if not, is the right approach. I also think that what you did with sysutils/lookat is proof that this method works. Further, IMO we need to be much more aggressive in removing stale ports. Anything that is removed that it turns out people actually use can be restored from CVS literally with a few keystrokes. It's all well and good to say how cool it is that we have 22,000+ ports, but when you start looking at maintenance, infrastructure updates, etc. having stale stuff makes life much harder for everyone. Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
16.03.2011 01:27, Charlie Kester пишет: Maybe it wasn't there when you looked, but http://www.gimpshop.com/download.shtml has links to download sources for both the development version and the latest release (2.2.8). They even have an alternate link for the release version. gimpshop is pretty old and development seems stalled. The next gimp release will have gimpshop-like UI by default so i think it worth deprecating. I also saw that graphics/gimp-greycstoration is finally deprecated. Baptiste you may want to look at ports/154596 to close it. -- Regards, Ruslan ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: deprecated ports
On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 07:40 +0300, Ruslan Mahmatkhanov wrote: gimpshop is pretty old and development seems stalled. The next gimp release will have gimpshop-like UI by default so i think it worth deprecating. That's almost too optimistic thing to say at the moment, as GIMP's single window interface has been in talks, like, since when, early 2009? Instead, we got this: http://libregraphicsworld.org/news.php?readmore=667 While I agree that that gimpshop itself is pretty rotten, there's no viable alternative for people willing (needing?) to use it, so backing up its deprecation with the planned (*cough*) release of GIMP 2.8 probably isn't the very best possible course in this case... At this time, there isn't even a specific release date in plans for 2.8 and even if that eventually happens, many people [citation needed] doubt that the single-UI will actually make it there (as, currently, there's not even a spec finalized for it). Just saying. m. -- Michal Varga, Stonehenge (Gmail account) ___ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-ports-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
