Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-26 Thread David Southwell
 On 2010-Sep-23 12:22:51 -0400, Jerry freebsd-ports.u...@seibercom.net 
wrote:
 A few months ago, after upgrading to version 8/amd64 and installing
 OpenSSL from ports, I had several ports bomb out when I attempted to
 build them.  I filed PR's against them and contacted the maintainers. It
 appeared that the majority of these port maintainers were not even aware
 that their port would not build in the presents of OpenSSL when it was
 installed via the ports tree. In any case, I was able to get them to
 fix their ports to build correctly.
 
 So it sounds like everything worked as expected.  I fail to see any
 deficiency in the way things worked.
 
 What amazed me is that this is such a common occurrence that it should
 have been contemplated when the port was released.
 
 Why do you think that?  It's quite likely that the port maintainers
 didn't install OpenSSL from ports - I know I don't.
 
  Perhaps the Porters
 
 Handbook should list ports that have a corresponding base system
 counterpart; thereby, alerting the maintainer that he/she should test
 against both versions to insure full compatibility.
 
 I disagree.  I'd be surprised if any part of the base system _didn't_
 have one or more corresponding equivalents in ports.  As well as
 OpenSSL, there are 5 versions of gcc (and probably a half-dozen other
 C compilers), binutils, 5 versions of bind (and several other DNS
 implementations that presumably also implement resolver libraries), 3
 Kerberos variants, 2-4 versions of ncurses, readline, etc.  Expecting
 a ports maintainer to check that their port works with all of these on
 3 different FreeBSD branches and about 5 different architectures is
 completely unrealistic.
 
 IMHO, the expectations on a port maintainer are that they verify that
 the port works as expected in their environments (where any unusual
 configurations are listed in the port dependencies) and at least
 builds on all other supported branches/architectures (via tinderbox or
 similar).  Any issues beyond that realistically need to be dealt with
 on a case-by-case basis.
Frankly I have never heard such a load of inconsiderate thoughtlessness and 
denial of responsibility form anyone before.

Installation of ssl from ports is part of a normal configuration. Mainainers 
need to take account of reality.

David

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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-24 Thread Peter Jeremy
On 2010-Sep-23 12:22:51 -0400, Jerry freebsd-ports.u...@seibercom.net wrote:
A few months ago, after upgrading to version 8/amd64 and installing
OpenSSL from ports, I had several ports bomb out when I attempted to
build them.  I filed PR's against them and contacted the maintainers. It
appeared that the majority of these port maintainers were not even aware
that their port would not build in the presents of OpenSSL when it was
installed via the ports tree. In any case, I was able to get them to
fix their ports to build correctly.

So it sounds like everything worked as expected.  I fail to see any
deficiency in the way things worked.

What amazed me is that this is such a common occurrence that it should
have been contemplated when the port was released.

Why do you think that?  It's quite likely that the port maintainers
didn't install OpenSSL from ports - I know I don't.

 Perhaps the Porters
Handbook should list ports that have a corresponding base system
counterpart; thereby, alerting the maintainer that he/she should test
against both versions to insure full compatibility.

I disagree.  I'd be surprised if any part of the base system _didn't_
have one or more corresponding equivalents in ports.  As well as
OpenSSL, there are 5 versions of gcc (and probably a half-dozen other
C compilers), binutils, 5 versions of bind (and several other DNS
implementations that presumably also implement resolver libraries), 3
Kerberos variants, 2-4 versions of ncurses, readline, etc.  Expecting
a ports maintainer to check that their port works with all of these on
3 different FreeBSD branches and about 5 different architectures is
completely unrealistic.

IMHO, the expectations on a port maintainer are that they verify that
the port works as expected in their environments (where any unusual
configurations are listed in the port dependencies) and at least
builds on all other supported branches/architectures (via tinderbox or
similar).  Any issues beyond that realistically need to be dealt with
on a case-by-case basis.

-- 
Peter Jeremy


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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-23 Thread David Southwell
 On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:29:50PM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote:

 
 To OP (David Southwell):
 
 Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in pkg_info
 output)?
 
 That might be the cause of your build failures while pointyhat cluster
 builds affected ports without errors.
 
 To port maintainers:
 
 Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl installed
 from ports?
 
 0.02$,
 Alexey.
Have any maintainers tried this?


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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-23 Thread Mikhail T.

 23.09.2010 04:14, David Southwell написав(ла):


 To OP (David Southwell):



 Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in pkg_info

 output)?

David, I think, it is much easier for you to answer the above simple 
question, than for the others to attempt the below experiment...

 To port maintainers:



 Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl installed

 from ports?


Have any maintainers tried this?


Not me...

   -mi


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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-23 Thread Jerry
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:35:21 -0400
Mikhail T. mi+t...@aldan.algebra.com articulated:

   23.09.2010 04:14, David Southwell написав(ла):
 
   To OP (David Southwell):
 
   Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in
   pkg_info output)?
 
 David, I think, it is much easier for you to answer the above simple 
 question, than for the others to attempt the below experiment...
   To port maintainers:
 
   Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl
   installed from ports?
 
  Have any maintainers tried this?
 
 Not me...

A few months ago, after upgrading to version 8/amd64 and installing
OpenSSL from ports, I had several ports bomb out when I attempted to
build them. I filed PR's against them and contacted the maintainers. It
appeared that the majority of these port maintainers were not even aware
that their port would not build in the presents of OpenSSL when it was
installed via the ports tree. In any case, I was able to get them to
fix their ports to build correctly.

What amazed me is that this is such a common occurrence that it should
have been contemplated when the port was released. Perhaps the Porters
Handbook should list ports that have a corresponding base system
counterpart; thereby, alerting the maintainer that he/she should test
against both versions to insure full compatibility.

Just my 2¢.

-- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd-ports.u...@seibercom.net

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
__
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

Derek Bok, president of Harvard


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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-23 Thread David Southwell
   23.09.2010 04:14, David Southwell написав(ла):
   To OP (David Southwell):
   
   
   
   Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in pkg_info
   
   output)?
 
 David, I think, it is much easier for you to answer the above simple
 question, than for the others to attempt the below experiment...
 
   To port maintainers:
   
   
   
   Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl installed
   
   from ports?
  
  Have any maintainers tried this?
 
 Not me...
 
 -mi
 


I have already answered the question.
Yes I do have openssl built from ports!!
 
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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-23 Thread David Southwell
   23.09.2010 04:14, David Southwell написав(ла):
   To OP (David Southwell):
   
   
   
   Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in pkg_info
   
   output)?
 
 David, I think, it is much easier for you to answer the above simple
 question, than for the others to attempt the below experiment...
 
   To port maintainers:
   
   
   
   Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl installed
   
   from ports?
  
  Have any maintainers tried this?
 
 Not me...
 
 -mi
 
Just to follow up my last post here is the text of my post:
-
eXTRACT FOLL;OWS:
__
 Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in pkg_info
 output)?

Yes

dns1# pkg_info |grep ssl
dsssl-docbook-modular-1.79_1,1 DSSSL stylesheets for the DocBook DTD by Norman 
Walsh
linux-openssl-0.9.7f_2 SSL and crypto library (Linux Version)
openssl-1.0.0_2 SSL and crypto library
php5-openssl-5.3.3_2 The openssl shared extension for php
py26-openssl-0.10   Python interface to the OpenSSL library
qca-ossl-2.0.0.b3_4 QCA OpenSLL plugin

 
 That might be the cause of your build failures while pointyhat cluster
 builds affected ports without errors.
 
 To port maintainers:
 
 Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl installed
 from ports?
 
 0.02$,
 Alexey.
Thanks Alexey

david
\End of extract
_


See also:
Extract from posting by Jerry freebsd-ports.u...@seibercom.net
_
A few months ago, after upgrading to version 8/amd64 and installing
OpenSSL from ports, I had several ports bomb out when I attempted to
build them. I filed PR's against them and contacted the maintainers. It
appeared that the majority of these port maintainers were not even aware
that their port would not build in the presents of OpenSSL when it was
installed via the ports tree. In any case, I was able to get them to
fix their ports to build correctly.

What amazed me is that this is such a common occurrence that it should
have been contemplated when the port was released. Perhaps the Porters
Handbook should list ports that have a corresponding base system
counterpart; thereby, alerting the maintainer that he/she should test
against both versions to insure full compatibility.


Eceryone seems to be saying hey do not bother me about this -- it must be 
something crazy about David's system when everyone knows that ports need to 
be built to take account of openssl from ports!

David

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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-22 Thread Alexey Shuvaev
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:29:50PM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote:
  21.09.2010 12:05, David Southwell написав(ла):
 Problem is opal does not compile due to failure which was in
 original posting:
 According to:
 
 http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-8-latest-logs/opal-2.2.11_2.log.bz2
 
 Opal builds just fine -- in the clean environment... As does ptlib:
 
 http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-8-latest-logs/ptlib-2.4.4.log.bz2
 
 Which means, there is something about your configuration, that
 interferes with the build.
 
 I'm not blaming you -- ports (unlike packages) ought to be flexible
 and build properly in a variety of configurations. The price for
 that flexibility, however, is having to deal with an occasional
 breakage, when your setup deviates too far from the mainstream.
 But you need to, at least, diagnose the problem yourself.
 
 Does the presence of some unusual package break the build? Any
 other unexpected setting/configuration option?
 
 Include that info in a PR, so that the problem can be reproduced...
 Thanks! Yours,
 
To OP (David Southwell):

Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in pkg_info
output)?

That might be the cause of your build failures while pointyhat cluster
builds affected ports without errors.

To port maintainers:

Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl installed
from ports?

0.02$,
Alexey.
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Fwd: Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-22 Thread David Southwell
 On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:29:50PM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote:
   21.09.2010 12:05, David Southwell написав(ла):
  Problem is opal does not compile due to failure which was in
  
  original posting:
  According to:
  
  http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-8-latest-logs/opal-2.2.11_2.l
  og.bz2
  
  Opal builds just fine -- in the clean environment... As does ptlib:
  
  http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-8-latest-logs/ptlib-2.4.4.log
  .bz2
  
  Which means, there is something about your configuration, that
  interferes with the build.
  
  I'm not blaming you -- ports (unlike packages) ought to be flexible
  and build properly in a variety of configurations. The price for
  that flexibility, however, is having to deal with an occasional
  breakage, when your setup deviates too far from the mainstream.
  But you need to, at least, diagnose the problem yourself.
  
  Does the presence of some unusual package break the build? Any
  other unexpected setting/configuration option?
  
  Include that info in a PR, so that the problem can be reproduced...
  Thanks! Yours,
 
 To OP (David Southwell):
 
 Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in pkg_info
 output)?
 
 That might be the cause of your build failures while pointyhat cluster
 builds affected ports without errors.
 
 To port maintainers:
 
 Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl installed
 from ports?
 
 0.02$,
 Alexey. On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:29:50PM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote:
   21.09.2010 12:05, David Southwell написав(ла):
  Problem is opal does not compile due to failure which was in
  
  original posting:
  According to:
  
  http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-8-latest-logs/opal-2.2.11_2.l
  og.bz2
  
  Opal builds just fine -- in the clean environment... As does ptlib:
  
  http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-8-latest-logs/ptlib-2.4.4.log
  .bz2
  
  Which means, there is something about your configuration, that
  interferes with the build.
  
  I'm not blaming you -- ports (unlike packages) ought to be flexible
  and build properly in a variety of configurations. The price for
  that flexibility, however, is having to deal with an occasional
  breakage, when your setup deviates too far from the mainstream.
  But you need to, at least, diagnose the problem yourself.
  
  Does the presence of some unusual package break the build? Any
  other unexpected setting/configuration option?
  
  Include that info in a PR, so that the problem can be reproduced...
  Thanks! Yours,
 
 To OP (David Southwell):
 
 Do you have openssl installed from ports (so it shows up in pkg_info
 output)?

Yes

dns1# pkg_info |grep ssl
dsssl-docbook-modular-1.79_1,1 DSSSL stylesheets for the DocBook DTD by Norman 
Walsh
linux-openssl-0.9.7f_2 SSL and crypto library (Linux Version)
openssl-1.0.0_2 SSL and crypto library
php5-openssl-5.3.3_2 The openssl shared extension for php
py26-openssl-0.10   Python interface to the OpenSSL library
qca-ossl-2.0.0.b3_4 QCA OpenSLL plugin

 
 That might be the cause of your build failures while pointyhat cluster
 builds affected ports without errors.
 
 To port maintainers:
 
 Could you try to build your ports in the presence of openssl installed
 from ports?
 
 0.02$,
 Alexey.
Thanks Alexey

david

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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-21 Thread David Southwell
 On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 10:29:00PM +0100, David Southwell wrote:
  Does SSL from ports declare something that we can #ifdef around? I
 
 don't
 
  really use pwlib anymore. If you can produce a patch that fixes your
 
 issue
 
  without breaking the case of using system openssl I'll happly give
  it
 
 the
 
  nod. ports/pwlib is very old. Everything should be moving to
  ports/ptlib
  
  (2.4) or ports/ptlib26
 
 Thanks for your reply.
 
 IMHO The problem is ptlibs AND ptlib26. Both these ports seem to be
 the cause of the problem. pwlib tries to build ptlib and that build
 fails. ptlib26 fails with the same error.
 
 Actually not. pwlib _IS_ ptlib just a very old version. It doesn't build
 ptlib or ptlib26.
 
 I think you have your finger on the pulse... both ptlib AND ptlib26
 need to address the way they use openssl but I do not know how to do
 that!
 
 Heh. Until someone who cares does know then its not likely to get fixed. As
 I said, I don't even use anymore so I have no test/develpment platform.
 

I would have thought as you are listed as the maintainer for two of the 
affected ports you might have some reason for caring!

I had the crazy idea that all the maintainers on the hook might be able to 
collaborate to deal with a common interest.

Maintainers on the hook as listed in the relevant Makefiles  are:

ptlib -- lih...@ieee.org  
ptlib26 -- melif...@ipfw.ru
pwlib -- st...@energistic.com
openh323 -- st...@energistic.com
opal m...@aldan.algebra.com
asterisk sobo...@freebsd.org

Seriously this issue needs a solution.

David
_
PS

 David
 
 PS Would you mind not top posting
 
 Seriously? Top posting is somehow worse than scrolling to the bottom of
 pages of compile output to see a tiny response? Welcome to the 21st
 century.

Why scroll?? - Be flexible like your computer.

The modern method is to use an appropriate control key combination. Try Ctrl 
End -- on freebsd 7.2 p3 it is the default way to get your cursor to the last 
line of a reply with no fuss. 

If you want to be super efficient a simple  script will automatically launch 
your reply with your cursor at the bottom! You can then post knowing  people 
will be able to read the discussion in a logical sequence. People read 
discussions downwards not upwards !

 Top posting
 Such as?
  They do the most annoying things
   How do you recognise that?
  They are often inconsiderate not out of malice but because they do 
not understand how people read maillists!
 How?
From their emails
   How do you recognise people with relatively short experience?
   Millions join every week 
 How fast is the internet expanding?



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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-21 Thread David Southwell
 21.09.2010 05:34, David Southwell написав(ла):
  I had the crazy idea that all the maintainers on the hook might be able
  to collaborate to deal with a common interest.
  
  Maintainers on the hook as listed in the relevant Makefiles are:
  
  ptlib -- lih...@ieee.org
  ptlib26 -- melif...@ipfw.ru
  pwlib -- st...@energistic.com
  openh323 -- st...@energistic.com
  opal m...@aldan.algebra.com
  asterisk sobo...@freebsd.org
 
 I have not committed anything in Opal-related in many months... Thus, I
 doubt, it is my problem... If you think, it is, please, file a PR. Thank
 you,
 
   -mi
Problem is opal does not compile due to failure which was in original posting:
(See below)

Now for me the question is who is responsible!!

Is this an openssl problem (openssl seems to work elsewhere) or is it a 
ptlib/ptlib26 problem or are opal  openh323 not being compiled 
sympathetically to ptlib/ptlib26 dependencies. I do not know but feel 
maintainers might be interested enough to  know why their port does not 
compile!!

David


_
From: David Southwell 
  To: st...@energistic.com 
  Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org ; m...@aldan.algebra.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 5:28 AM
  Subject: Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal 
-  openh323


On Sat, 18 Sep 2010, David Southwell wrote:

 /usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pssl.o

 ../../ptclib/pssl.cxx: In constructor 'PSSLContext::PSSLContext(const

void*, PINDEX)':

../../ptclib/pssl.cxx:917: error: invalid conversion from 'const

SSL_METHOD*' to 'SSL_METHOD*'

 gmake[3]: ***

 [/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pssl.o] Error 1



I'm having this error too. My guess is that is that pwlib has problems

with the OpenSSL version in the ports. I've had similar problems with

other ports in the past.



Regards,

Marco


   That makes sense. The problem is this also breaks asterisk which depends 

upon 

   pwlib!!

   I have also tried building ptlib26 but get the same failures.

   I have cc'd this to the maintainerlih...@ieee.org

  lih...@ieee.org is maintainer for ptlib.

  I have also just sent a copy to st...@energistic.com who is maintainer for 
pwlib and net/openh323 which is also affected by this build failure.


  I have also added m...@aldan.algebra.com who is maintainer for /net/opal 
which 
has the same problem.


  dns1# portupgrade -a


  --- Upgrading 'opal-2.2.11_2' to 'opal-2.2.11_3' (net/opal)

  --- Building '/usr/ports/net/opal'

  === Cleaning for pwlib-1.12.0_6,1

  :

  :

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/src/ptlib/unix'

  gmake[3]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins'

  Created dependencies.

  set -e; gmake -C sound_oss debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_v4l debugdepend ; 
gmake -C vidinput_v4l2 debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_bsd debugdepend ;

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'

  c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1 -
I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall 
-D_DEBUG -fPIC -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -M 
sound_oss.cxx  ../pwlib/device/sound/*.dep

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'

  c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1 -
I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall 
-D_DEBUG -fPIC -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -M 
vidinput_v4l.cxx  ../pwlib/device/videoinput/*.dep

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l2'

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l2'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_bsd'

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_bsd'

  gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports

Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-21 Thread Mikhail T.

21.09.2010 05:34, David Southwell написав(ла):

I had the crazy idea that all the maintainers on the hook might be able
to collaborate to deal with a common interest.

Maintainers on the hook as listed in the relevant Makefiles are:

ptlib -- lih...@ieee.org
ptlib26 -- melif...@ipfw.ru
pwlib -- st...@energistic.com
openh323 -- st...@energistic.com
opal m...@aldan.algebra.com
asterisk sobo...@freebsd.org


I have not committed anything in Opal-related in many months... Thus, I 
doubt, it is my problem... If you think, it is, please, file a PR. Thank 
you,


-mi
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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-21 Thread Mikhail T.

 21.09.2010 12:05, David Southwell написав(ла):
Problem is opal does not compile due to failure which was in original 
posting:

According to:


http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-8-latest-logs/opal-2.2.11_2.log.bz2


Opal builds just fine -- in the clean environment... As does ptlib:


http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-8-latest-logs/ptlib-2.4.4.log.bz2


Which means, there is something about your configuration, that 
interferes with the build.


I'm not blaming you -- ports (unlike packages) ought to be flexible and 
build properly in a variety of configurations. The price for that 
flexibility, however, is having to deal with an occasional breakage, 
when your setup deviates too far from the mainstream. But you need to, 
at least, diagnose the problem yourself.


Does the presence of some unusual package break the build? Any other 
unexpected setting/configuration option?


Include that info in a PR, so that the problem can be reproduced... 
Thanks! Yours,


-mi

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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-20 Thread David Southwell
  On Sat, 18 Sep 2010, David Southwell wrote:
   /usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pssl.o
   ../../ptclib/pssl.cxx: In constructor 'PSSLContext::PSSLContext(const
  void*, PINDEX)':
  ../../ptclib/pssl.cxx:917: error: invalid conversion from 'const
  SSL_METHOD*' to 'SSL_METHOD*'
   gmake[3]: ***
   [/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pssl.o] Error 1
  
  I'm having this error too. My guess is that is that pwlib has problems
  with the OpenSSL version in the ports. I've had similar problems with
  other ports in the past.
  
  Regards,
  Marco

 That makes sense. The problem is this also breaks asterisk which depends  
  upon 
 pwlib!!
 I have also tried building ptlib26 but get the same failures.
 I have cc'd this to the maintainerlih...@ieee.org
lih...@ieee.org is maintainer for ptlib.
I have also just sent a copy to st...@energistic.com who is maintainer for 
pwlib and net/openh323 which is also affected by this build failure.

I have also added m...@aldan.algebra.com who is maintainer for  /net/opal which 
has the same problem.

dns1# portupgrade -a

---  Upgrading 'opal-2.2.11_2' to 'opal-2.2.11_3' (net/opal)
---  Building '/usr/ports/net/opal'
===  Cleaning for pwlib-1.12.0_6,1
:
:
Created dependencies.
gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/src/ptlib/unix'
gmake[3]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins'
Created dependencies.
set -e; gmake -C sound_oss debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_v4l debugdepend ; 
gmake -C vidinput_v4l2 debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_bsd debugdepend ;
gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'
c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1 -
I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall  
-D_DEBUG -fPIC -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -M 
sound_oss.cxx  ../pwlib/device/sound/*.dep
gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'
gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'
Created dependencies.
gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'
gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'
c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1 -
I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall  
-D_DEBUG -fPIC -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -M 
vidinput_v4l.cxx  ../pwlib/device/videoinput/*.dep
gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'
gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'
Created dependencies.
gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'
gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l2'
Created dependencies.
gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l2'
gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_bsd'
Created dependencies.
gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_bsd'
gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins'
set -e; if test -e src/ptlib/unix ; then gmake -C src/ptlib/unix debug; fi;  
if test -e plugins ; then gmake -C plugins debug; fi; 
gmake[3]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/src/ptlib/unix'
c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include  -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions  -O1 -
I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall  
-g -D_DEBUG -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include  -O1 -fPIC -
DLDAP_DEPRECATED -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include   -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include 
-I/usr/local/include -c ../../ptclib/psasl.cxx -o 
/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/psasl.o
c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include  -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions  -O1 -
I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall  
-g -D_DEBUG -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include  -O1 -fPIC -
DLDAP_DEPRECATED -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include   -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include 
-I/usr/local/include -c ../../ptclib/pldap.cxx -o 
/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pldap.o
c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -
I/usr/local/include  -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions  -O1 -

Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-20 Thread Steve Ames
Does SSL from ports declare something that we can #ifdef around? I don't really 
use pwlib anymore. If you can produce a patch that fixes your issue without 
breaking the case of using system openssl I'll happly give it the nod. 
ports/pwlib is very old. Everything should be moving to ports/ptlib (2.4) or 
ports/ptlib26
  - Original Message - 
  From: David Southwell 
  To: st...@energistic.com 
  Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org ; m...@aldan.algebra.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 5:28 AM
  Subject: Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal 
-  openh323


On Sat, 18 Sep 2010, David Southwell wrote:

 /usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pssl.o

 ../../ptclib/pssl.cxx: In constructor 'PSSLContext::PSSLContext(const

void*, PINDEX)':

../../ptclib/pssl.cxx:917: error: invalid conversion from 'const

SSL_METHOD*' to 'SSL_METHOD*'

 gmake[3]: ***

 [/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pssl.o] Error 1



I'm having this error too. My guess is that is that pwlib has problems

with the OpenSSL version in the ports. I've had similar problems with

other ports in the past.



Regards,

Marco


   That makes sense. The problem is this also breaks asterisk which depends 

upon 

   pwlib!!

   I have also tried building ptlib26 but get the same failures.

   I have cc'd this to the maintainerlih...@ieee.org

  lih...@ieee.org is maintainer for ptlib.

  I have also just sent a copy to st...@energistic.com who is maintainer for 
pwlib and net/openh323 which is also affected by this build failure.


  I have also added m...@aldan.algebra.com who is maintainer for /net/opal 
which has the same problem.


  dns1# portupgrade -a


  --- Upgrading 'opal-2.2.11_2' to 'opal-2.2.11_3' (net/opal)

  --- Building '/usr/ports/net/opal'

  === Cleaning for pwlib-1.12.0_6,1

  :

  :

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/src/ptlib/unix'

  gmake[3]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins'

  Created dependencies.

  set -e; gmake -C sound_oss debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_v4l debugdepend ; 
gmake -C vidinput_v4l2 debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_bsd debugdepend ;

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'

  c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include 
-I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1 
-I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall 
-D_DEBUG -fPIC -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -M 
sound_oss.cxx  ../pwlib/device/sound/*.dep

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'

  c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include 
-I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1 
-I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall 
-D_DEBUG -fPIC -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -M 
vidinput_v4l.cxx  ../pwlib/device/videoinput/*.dep

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l2'

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l2'

  gmake[4]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_bsd'

  Created dependencies.

  gmake[4]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_bsd'

  gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins'

  set -e; if test -e src/ptlib/unix ; then gmake -C src/ptlib/unix debug; fi; 
if test -e plugins ; then gmake -C plugins debug; fi; 

  gmake[3]: Entering directory 
`/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/src/ptlib/unix'

  c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include 
-I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1 
-I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include -Wall 
-g -D_DEBUG -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -O1 -fPIC 
-DLDAP_DEPRECATED -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include 
-I/usr/local/include -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include 
-I/usr/local/include -c

Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-20 Thread David Southwell
 - Original Message -
   From: David Southwell
   To: st...@energistic.com
   Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org ; m...@aldan.algebra.com
   Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 5:28 AM
   Subject: Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk -
 opal -  openh323
 
 On Sat, 18 Sep 2010, David Southwell wrote:
  /usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pssl.o
  
  ../../ptclib/pssl.cxx: In constructor
  'PSSLContext::PSSLContext(const
 
 void*, PINDEX)':
 ../../ptclib/pssl.cxx:917: error: invalid conversion from 'const
 
 SSL_METHOD*' to 'SSL_METHOD*'
 
  gmake[3]: ***
  
  [/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/pssl.o] Error
  1
 
 I'm having this error too. My guess is that is that pwlib has
 problems
 
 with the OpenSSL version in the ports. I've had similar problems with
 
 other ports in the past.
 
 
 
 Regards,
 
 Marco

That makes sense. The problem is this also breaks asterisk which
depends

 upon

pwlib!!

I have also tried building ptlib26 but get the same failures.

I have cc'd this to the maintainerlih...@ieee.org
 
   lih...@ieee.org is maintainer for ptlib.
 
   I have also just sent a copy to st...@energistic.com who is maintainer
 for pwlib and net/openh323 which is also affected by this build failure.
 
 
   I have also added m...@aldan.algebra.com who is maintainer for /net/opal
 which has the same problem.
 
 
   dns1# portupgrade -a
 
 
   --- Upgrading 'opal-2.2.11_2' to 'opal-2.2.11_3' (net/opal)
 
   --- Building '/usr/ports/net/opal'
 
   === Cleaning for pwlib-1.12.0_6,1
 
 
 
 
 
   Created dependencies.
 
   gmake[3]: Leaving directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/src/ptlib/unix'
 
   gmake[3]: Entering directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins'
 
   Created dependencies.
 
   set -e; gmake -C sound_oss debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_v4l
 debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_v4l2 debugdepend ; gmake -C vidinput_bsd
 debugdepend ;
 
   gmake[4]: Entering directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'
 
   c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include
 -I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1
 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include
 -Wall -D_DEBUG -fPIC -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include
 -M sound_oss.cxx  ../pwlib/device/sound/*.dep
 
   gmake[4]: Leaving directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'
 
   gmake[4]: Entering directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'
 
   Created dependencies.
 
   gmake[4]: Leaving directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/sound_oss'
 
   gmake[4]: Entering directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'
 
   c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include
 -I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1
 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include
 -Wall -D_DEBUG -fPIC -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include
 -M vidinput_v4l.cxx  ../pwlib/device/videoinput/*.dep
 
   gmake[4]: Leaving directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'
 
   gmake[4]: Entering directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'
 
   Created dependencies.
 
   gmake[4]: Leaving directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l'
 
   gmake[4]: Entering directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l2'
 
   Created dependencies.
 
   gmake[4]: Leaving directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_v4l2'
 
   gmake[4]: Entering directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_bsd'
 
   Created dependencies.
 
   gmake[4]: Leaving directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins/vidinput_bsd'
 
   gmake[3]: Leaving directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/plugins'
 
   set -e; if test -e src/ptlib/unix ; then gmake -C src/ptlib/unix debug;
 fi; if test -e plugins ; then gmake -C plugins debug; fi;
 
   gmake[3]: Entering directory
 `/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/src/ptlib/unix'
 
   c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include
 -I/usr/local/include -D_REENTRANT -pthread -fno-exceptions -O1
 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include
 -Wall -g -D_DEBUG -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -O1
 -fPIC -DLDAP_DEPRECATED -O1
 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include -I/usr/local/include
 -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include
 -I/usr/local/include -c ../../ptclib/psasl.cxx -o
 /usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/lib/obj_d/psasl.o
 
   c++ -O1 -I/usr/ports/devel/pwlib/work/ptlib_v1_12_0/include
 -I

Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-20 Thread Steve Ames
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 10:29:00PM +0100, David Southwell wrote:
 Does SSL from ports declare something that we can #ifdef around? I
don't
 
 really use pwlib anymore. If you can produce a patch that fixes your
issue
 
 without breaking the case of using system openssl I'll happly give it
the
 
 nod. ports/pwlib is very old. Everything should be moving to ports/ptlib
 
 (2.4) or ports/ptlib26
 
Thanks for your reply.
 
IMHO The problem is ptlibs AND ptlib26. Both these ports seem to be the
cause of the problem. pwlib tries to build ptlib and that build fails.
ptlib26 fails with the same error.
 

Actually not. pwlib _IS_ ptlib just a very old version. It doesn't build
ptlib or ptlib26.

I think you have your finger on the pulse... both ptlib AND ptlib26 need
to address the way they use openssl but I do not know how to do that!
 
Heh. Until someone who cares does know then its not likely to get fixed. As I
said, I don't even use anymore so I have no test/develpment platform.

David
 
PS Would you mind not top posting

Seriously? Top posting is somehow worse than scrolling to the bottom of pages
of compile output to see a tiny response? Welcome to the 21st century.

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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-20 Thread Chuck Swiger
Hi, Steve--

On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Steve Ames wrote:
   PS Would you mind not top posting
 
 Seriously? Top posting is somehow worse than scrolling to the bottom of pages
 of compile output to see a tiny response? Welcome to the 21st century.

Welcome to the FreeBSD mailing lists.  Please see:

  
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html#ETIQUETTE-REPLYING

Please do not top post.  By this, we mean that if you are replying to a 
message, please put your replies after the text that you copy in your reply.

• A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
• Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?

Regards,
-- 
-Chuck

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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-20 Thread Chip Camden
Quoth Chuck Swiger on Monday, 20 September 2010:
 Hi, Steve--
 
 On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Steve Ames wrote:
PS Would you mind not top posting
  
  Seriously? Top posting is somehow worse than scrolling to the bottom of 
  pages
  of compile output to see a tiny response? Welcome to the 21st century.
 
 Welcome to the FreeBSD mailing lists.  Please see:
 
   
 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html#ETIQUETTE-REPLYING
 
 Please do not top post.  By this, we mean that if you are replying to a 
 message, please put your replies after the text that you copy in your reply.
 
   ? A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
   ? Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
 
 Regards,
 -- 
 -Chuck
 
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Speaking of the 21st century, a decent e-mail user agent (like mutt) can be
configured to take you to the bottom of the message with one or two
keystrokes, and a modern email composer (like vim in conjunction with
mutt)  can automatically quote and place you at the end of the quoted
passage when replying.

-- 
Sterling (Chip) Camden| sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F
http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com| http://chipsquips.com


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Re: ptlib build failure - breaks pwlib - hence also asterisk - opal - openh323

2010-09-20 Thread Steve Ames
My bad. I generally dont criticize people while asking for their help. Also you 
emailed me directly so freebsd mailing list rules are irrelevant. 

So. Yey you get to be right.  Hope it solves your issues. 

On Sep 20, 2010, at 7:32 PM, Chuck Swiger cswi...@mac.com wrote:

 Hi, Steve--
 
 On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Steve Ames wrote:
  PS Would you mind not top posting
 
 Seriously? Top posting is somehow worse than scrolling to the bottom of pages
 of compile output to see a tiny response? Welcome to the 21st century.
 
 Welcome to the FreeBSD mailing lists.  Please see:
 
  
 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html#ETIQUETTE-REPLYING
 
 Please do not top post.  By this, we mean that if you are replying to a 
 message, please put your replies after the text that you copy in your reply.
 
• A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
• Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
 
 Regards,
 -- 
 -Chuck
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