Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1110270834540.94...@wonkity.com, Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: ... The only thing that worries me about my rather ad-hoc way of setting up a personal printer (as describe above) is that I sort of wonder what will happen if I ever try to print something when something else is currently printing. There's also the issue of printing large files, which will tie up the command line until the printer has buffered them all... Tie up the command line ?? John Levine attempted to make the same point, and I'm still not really getting it. This is why we have X! I can have all of the command lines that I want, and I frequently do. I have at least 15 different xterm windows open as we speak, so I really don't see tying up the command line as a real issue. A better example would be a web browser or word processor. The program stops responding to further input until the printer has received the entire print job. This bothered people enough that they came up with lpd/lpr, which is part of the base FreeBSD system and works well. It's been around long enough for problems to have been worked out. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
from Mark Felder f...@feld.me: You've just made me a happy, happy user. I always wondered what it would take to get rid of CUPS, and today I've done it. Finally my print jobs are instantaneous here at work instead of being a mystery. Can't wait to go home and do the same with my personal laser. I wish I could do that with my HP n1212mf LaserJet, but the necessary hplip port depends on cups-base. I could not get that printer to work on the old computer under FreeBSD 8.2 and NetBSD 5.1_STABLE, problems with the tricky USB interface, won't work with ulpt, but I didn't try the ethernet way yet. On the new computer, FreeBSD being the only hard-drive OS installed so far, I built hplip but haven't tested it yet. Upgrading by source from FreeBSD 9.0-BETA2 to RC1, I was sure to deactivate ulpt in the kernel config file. I am still struggling with some files in /etc messed up by mergemaster. I may have found a solution but haven't tested it yet; I did back up my old /etc directory. Then I have to portupgrade hplip and dependencies (portupgrade -r ...) or the portmaster equivalent. Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:08:07 + (GMT) Thomas Mueller articulated: from Mark Felder f...@feld.me: You've just made me a happy, happy user. I always wondered what it would take to get rid of CUPS, and today I've done it. Finally my print jobs are instantaneous here at work instead of being a mystery. Can't wait to go home and do the same with my personal laser. I wish I could do that with my HP n1212mf LaserJet, but the necessary hplip port depends on cups-base. I could not get that printer to work on the old computer under FreeBSD 8.2 and NetBSD 5.1_STABLE, problems with the tricky USB interface, won't work with ulpt, but I didn't try the ethernet way yet. On the new computer, FreeBSD being the only hard-drive OS installed so far, I built hplip but haven't tested it yet. Upgrading by source from FreeBSD 9.0-BETA2 to RC1, I was sure to deactivate ulpt in the kernel config file. I am still struggling with some files in /etc messed up by mergemaster. I may have found a solution but haven't tested it yet; I did back up my old /etc directory. Then I have to portupgrade hplip and dependencies (portupgrade -r ...) or the portmaster equivalent. Welcome to the wonderful world of printing on FreeBSD. By the way, is the time you are investing in this venture considered billable hours or just self-flagellation? -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:09:05 -0500 (CDT)
Robert Bonomi articulated:
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Thu Oct 27 16:46:51 2011
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:46:21 -0400
From: Jerry je...@seibercom.net
To: FreeBSD freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:11:32 +0200
Polytropon articulated:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 13:39:05 -0400, Jerry wrote:
Printing under MS Windows is a breeze.
The *nix community has never
gotten printing up to that lever.
It _had_, past tense. :-)
While there are those who continually
blame the manufacturers, the truth is that any COO, CFO {or
any other alphabetic combination that you like} that seriously
proposed the creation of a department dedicated to the writing
of drivers for non-windows based systems, a department that
would therefore have a zero based projected cash flow, would be
removed from office posthaste.
Fully agree, but if established standards would have
been truly adopted by the manufactueres for their
products, there would be no need to develop any drivers.
One standard interface could address all printer
functionality, and maybe even more, such as scanning
or faxing functionalities quite common in the egg-laying
wool-milk-sows we see on the consumer markets.
First of all let me say that I love standards; there are so many of
them to choose from.
Secondly, I seriously hope that never comes to pass. Once you lock
yourself into one specific interface the ability to innovate has
been removed. I cannot think of a worse possible scenario.
There's no real need for a 'standard' for communication with dumb
raster devices, which is what most 'winprinters' are.
All that is needed is a _published_ specification such that others
can implement communications with that device.
And there isn't a whole lot to such a specification:
How start-of-page is marked
How start-of-line is marked
How end-of-line is marked
How end-of-page is marked
How pixels are represented
Pixels per raster line,
Raster lines per page,
How the bits are sequenced
The compression methodology, if any, used.
there is little reason _not_ to make such specification public.
Sadly, the one standard doesn't seem to exist, and
manufacturers are not willing to discuss one. Of course,
such a standard would have to be free and open, so any
OS could implement it.
There you go putting restriction on how such an standard should be
implemented. I have a better idea. Why doesn't the *nix/*BSD {pick
any other letter combination that turns you on} agree to one
uniform method of implementing printer drivers and then let the
manufacturers implement it on their end.
You argued cogently _against_ manufacturers using standards.
Now you argue in favor of the entire *nix commnity agreeing on one.
Somehow, the phrase double standard' springs to mind. grin
I argued against any standard that strangles the ability to innovate.
Certain standards such as port 25 for SMTP are a necessary evil.
There are other examples.
Microsoft, since Win95 has had a simple method for the installation of
programs and drivers into it system. A program that is attempting to
install itself into the system calls msi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer and supplies the needed
data to that application. MSI then takes over and installs the
application/driver. This allows developers to worry about creating
their applications or drivers without the headache of actually
installing them.
Now, if the *BSD and other non-windows platform had a similar
application, one that ran EXACTLY THE SAME on each different platform,
developers would have a far easier task designing drivers for a wide
target audience instead of having to custom design each driver to
each individual platform which sometimes changes drastically between
major version numbers.
I have spoke to two company reps in the
past year, one regarding printers, and both stated outright that the
thought of writing and maintaining drivers on a multitude of
platforms scares them to death. The problem is not with the
manufacturers but rather with the fragmentation of the non-windows
arena.
There is -no- need for *them* to actually write drivers for use in
'specialty'/'niche' markets.
*ALL* they have to do is release the 'specifications' for the
communications format and protocol that the device uses.
Obviously you do not understand the term proprietary as it refers to
proprietary design or proprietary goods.
Honestly, where do you socialists come off with the doctrine that
others should work their asses off developing a product and then
divulge that knowledge to you free of charge thus costing the developer
a fair return on his/her investment?
In any case, even IF the needed code were disclosed by the
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011, Mark Felder wrote: You've just made me a happy, happy user. I always wondered what it would take to get rid of CUPS, and today I've done it. Finally my print jobs are instantaneous here at work instead of being a mystery. Can't wait to go home and do the same with my personal laser. Has anyone here experience with PDQ? It is a printing system that appears to address the problems cited in this thread. http://pdq.sourceforge.net/ Quoting from the website: Most casual unix users regard lp and lpr as black holes to which print jobs disappear, and may or may not emerge. I haven't tried it, as we have been able to make CUPS work (barely), but I am sympathetic to the sentiments expressed. Other than Windows-specific printers, FreeBSD printing problems are home-grown, and not caused by vendor misbehavior. Daniel Feenberg ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS on Dell with FreeBSD
On 28/10/2011 06:53, Albert Shih wrote: Le 27/10/2011 à 13:34:50-0400, David Magda a écrit On Thu, October 27, 2011 11:32, Albert Shih wrote: I also recommend LSI 9200-8E or new 9205-8E with the IT firmware based on past experience Do you known if the LSI-9205-8E HBA or the LSI-9202-16E HBA work under FreBSD 9.0 ? Check the man page for mpt(4): http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=mptmanpath=FreeBSD+9-current http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=mptmanpath=FreeBSD+8.2-RELEASE WellI don't find this LSI in the mpt driver. I find the chipset of the http://www.lsi.com/products/storagecomponents/Pages/LSISAS9202-16e.aspx in the mps drivers. But I don't known if it's enough to support le card. Or LSI's site: http://www.lsi.com/products/storagecomponents/Pages/LSISAS9205-8e.aspx this one use 2308 chip and I definitely don't find this chip on mps driver. http://www.lsi.com/products/storagecomponents/Pages/LSISAS9202-16e.aspx Do you know how to use a search engine? Don't knwon you tell me ;-) I going to spend lot of money to buy some card, I just hope I can sure the card going to work There is a fair chance for any newer LSI/PERC that supports sas it may be supported under the mfi driver. for example on dell R410 mfiutil -u0 show adapter mfi0 Adapter: Product Name: PERC H700 Adapter Serial Number: 0CP00UO Firmware: 12.10.0-0025 RAID Levels: JBOD, RAID0, RAID1, RAID5, RAID6, RAID10, RAID50 Battery Backup: present NVRAM: 32K Onboard Memory: 512M Minimum Stripe: 8k Maximum Stripe: 1M mfi0@pci0:3:0:0:class=0x010400 card=0x1f161028 chip=0x00791000 rev=0x05 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'LSI Logic / Symbios Logic' device = 'MegaRAID SAS 2108 [Liberator]' class = mass storage I am currently having some issues with a similar controller but thats a different firmware and rebadged by supermicro. so far i havent had any issues with this dell but its been under very light load and only up for a month. Vince Thanks Regards. JAS ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Thu, 27 Oct 2011, Mark Felder wrote: You've just made me a happy, happy user. I always wondered what it would take to get rid of CUPS, and today I've done it. Finally my print jobs are instantaneous here at work instead of being a mystery. Can't wait to go home and do the same with my personal laser. Has anyone here experience with PDQ? It is a printing system that appears to address the problems cited in this thread. http://pdq.sourceforge.net/ Quoting from the website: Most casual unix users regard lp and lpr as black holes to which print jobs disappear, and may or may not emerge. The arguments seem weak to me, and it sounds like a reinvention of lpd. It's unfortunate that many people see CUPS as the default choice. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CARP related trivial question
Thanks for replying Dave, that's the problem. There's no module and apparently it's supposed to be there. Ready to be loaded. :-O Mistake in the FreeBSD handbook? On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 14:14 -0700, Robison, Dave wrote: On 10/26/2011 12:20, Snoop wrote: Hi everybody, I've got a pretty trivial question but I'm kind of disoriented. In the CARP man pages is clearly stated http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/carp.html: __ To enable support for CARP, the FreeBSD kernel must be rebuilt as described in Chapter 9 with the following option: device carp Alternatively, the if_carp.ko module can be loaded at boot time. Add the following line to the /boot/loader.conf: if_carp_load=YES __ I'm not new to FreeBSD but I didn't manage to load that as a module, not while the OS is running neither at the startup adding the param on loader.conf. I'd love to do that instead of recompiling the kernel to get that working on any node. I'm talking about FreeBSD 8.1. Am I missing something? Any tip would be appreciated. -- Caselle da 1GB, trasmetti allegati fino a 3GB e in piu' IMAP, POP3 e SMTP autenticato? GRATIS solo con Email.it http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Incrementa la visibilita' della tua azienda con le campagne di email marketing di Email.it Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=11846d=26-10 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Does if_carp.ko exist under /boot/kernel/ ? If so: [root@lefty] ~# ls -lart /boot/kernel | grep if_carp -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel197392 Feb 16 2011 if_carp.ko.symbols -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 44336 Feb 16 2011 if_carp.ko [root@lefty] ~# kldload if_carp.ko [root@lefty] ~# kldstat | grep if_carp.ko 471 0x814fe000 4dd0 if_carp.ko [root@lefty] ~# should work. Dave -- Caselle da 1GB, trasmetti allegati fino a 3GB e in piu' IMAP, POP3 e SMTP autenticato? GRATIS solo con Email.it http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Peluche Originali Disney, Simpson, Bugs Bunny, Spongebob... a partire da soli Euro 9.90! Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=11654d=28-10 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: (8.2) share lib and ldconfig problem.
Hello, 8.2 STABLE/i386 I'm hit by something strange. Basically ldconfig does not take care of some libs in /usr/local/lib/compat/pkg By sample I've updated icu (via portupgrade) and libreoffice does not start anymore. $ libreoffice /libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object libicuuc.so.46 not found, required by libsvtfi.so Portgrade did a copy of the lib into /usr/local/lib/compat/pkg and run ldconfig. But the lib does not appear in the listing of the ldconfig cache : You mean portupgrade, probably? # cd /usr/local/lib/compat/pkg/ # ls -m *icu* libicudata.so.46*, libicudata.so.46.1*, libicui18n.so.46.1*, libicuio.so.46.1*, libicule.so.46.1*, libiculx.so.46.1*, libicutest.so.46.1*, libicutu.so.46.1*, libicuuc.so.46.1* # ldconfig -r | grep pkg | grep icu 664:-licudata.46 = /usr/local/lib/compat/pkg/libicudata.so.46 Note that there is only one icu lib in the ldconfig's cache. The one named libicudata.so.46 (which is a copy of libicudata.so.46.1). Questions are : - Why theses libs are not in the ldconfig cache ? - Why a copy named libicudata.so.46 is in the cache and not libicudata.so.46.1? Unlike the hints for the old aout format, there aren't any filename hashes in the elf hints file, just a header and a list of search directories. The 'ldconfig -r' output is faked, and displays (see list_elf_hints() in src/sbin/ldconfig/elfhints.c) what it thinks rtld(1) will look for: shared libraries in the search directories with filenames of the form lib*.so., followed by a string of numbers corresponding to the major version of the shared library. *.so.46.1 don't fit this pattern, because of the extra dots separating the major and minor version numbers in those filenames. Since your broken binary seems to need *.so.46, you can try adding symlinks between the corresponding *.so.46 and *.so.46.1, or you can rebuild the dependent port. b. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
How to dual-boot FreeBSD 9 with Linux?
Hi all Is any one by now successfully dual-booting FreeBSD 9 with Linux? I have tried with OpenSuse 11.4 with FreeBSD 9. OpenSuse installs Grub1 to mbr. Grub1 doesn't seem to support FreeBSD 9. It cannot recognise the file system type. Any help in this regard is very much appreciated. Many thanks in advance. Unga ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:53:44 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote: A better example would be a web browser or word processor. The program stops responding to further input until the printer has received the entire print job. This bothered people enough that they came up with lpd/lpr, which is part of the base FreeBSD system and works well. It's been around long enough for problems to have been worked out. Furthermore, this system's mechanism allows the use of user plugins, i. e. custom printer filters that talk to the device directly. This means that as soon as the printer spooler has received the data from the application program, any delays just happen to the processing and transmitting job (to the printer), not to the originating program. For example, I've written a simple search replace filter to send data directly to the parallel port where a daisywheel printer is attached. It's easy to combine this with the system's tools lpr / lpd / lpq / lprm, in combination with the /etc/printcap file and a shell script. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: rsync and the ports tree
Sounds like a well-thought out backup strategy. I've started to use your methods here, and I'm building ports I need at the same time, but the wireless here is not password protected so is incredibly slow as there are lots of leaches on the system. But while I'm plodding along, I have a few more questions: On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:07 AM, C. P. Ghost cpgh...@cordula.ws wrote: On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Peter Kryszkiewicz tundra2b...@gmail.com wrote: I have several machines installed in my temporary location and only my laptop gets the internet through wireless. So far I've been building ports on the other machines by rsync'ing the distfiles from the laptop as I need them (all machines have the same FreeBSD 8.2 installed). The problem comes after I did a 'portupgrade -a' on the laptop. To ensure the other ports trees are in sync, can I rsync the /usr/ports directory to the other machines? Since some of them are different architectures (amd64 multicore for instance) I ran into situations where the distfiles are different (for gcc for example). First of all, rsync is working perfectly if you want to distribute /usr/ports/distfiles, /usr/ports to your internal machines, even when they are not of the same architecture. I'm doing this with a BIG farm of servers running i386, amd64, and sparc64 for a long, long time. You only need to make sure to rsync the *union* of your /usr/ports/distfiles directories, or else it won't work. Say, on amd64 you have /usr/ports/distfiles/some-distfile-for-amd64-only.tar.bz2 and on i386 you have /usr/ports/distfiles/some-distfile-for-i386-only.tar.bz2 Yes, that happens every now and then. So you have to rsync both ways, so that you end up with /usr/ports/distfiles/some-distfile-for-amd64-only.tar.bz2 /usr/ports/distfiles/some-distfile-for-i386-only.tar.bz2 on both i386 and amd64 machines. I've done that, it works well especially for the architecture differences. gcc requires an additional distfile for the amd64 build). The catch is: look out for rsync's --delete flag! When some port managers delete old/stale distfiles, they may also delete distfiles for the *other* arches because they (rightly) think they are not needed here... and when you then rsync with --delete, that would (wrongly) propagate such deletes to those arches, and you end up with missing distfiles on the targets. Since I have more than just two arches, I use a slightly different 2-layer workflow: 0. I have 3 servers that are allowed to fetch files from the outside: i386-master, amd64-master, sparc64-master. and a whole bunch of i386-slave-NNN, amd64-slave-NNN and sparc64-slave-NNN machines that would duplicate from their relative masters via rsync. On all -master(s), I keep $DISTFILES outside of /usr/ports (on /usr/local/distfiles, with a symbolic link in /usr/ports /usr/ports/distfiles - /usr/local/distfiles) Initial update of i386-master, as usual: 1. On i386-master, csup /usr/ports. Run portmaster as usual to upgrade everything. This may delete old stale distfiles and non-i386-distfiles. This may fetch additional generic and i386-specific distfiles. Copy the new /usr/ports (without distfiles) to the other arch masters: 2. rsync -av --delete i386-master:/usr/ports to amd64-master and sparc64-master. CAUTION: Use --delete is okay, but only because distfiles are not under /usr/ports, so as not to nuke non-i386-specific distfiles of the other arches. Copy i386-master's NEW distfiles to the other arch masters: 3. rsync -av i386-master:/usr/local/distfiles to amd64-master and sparc64-master. BEWARE: Don't use --delete here! Do this to copy new generic distfiles (and i386) from the i386-master build to amd64-master and sparc64-master. Update amd64-master and sparc64-master's ports as usual: 4. On amd64-master, run portmaster as usual to upgrade everything. This may delete old stale distfiles and non-amd64-distfiles. This may fetch additional (generic and) amd64-specific-distfiles. 5. On sparc64-master, run portmaster as usual to upgrade everything. This may delete old stale distfiles and non-sparc64-distfiles. This may fetch additional (generic and) sparc64-specific-distfiles. At this point, i386-master, amd64-master and sparc64-master are fully updated, and their /usr/local/distfiles directories are up to date w.r.t. their specific architectures. Now, copy everything from the masters to the slaves: 6. On every i386-slave-NNN, rsync -av --delete: /usr/ports, /usr/local (including /usr/local/distfiles), /var/db/pkg, /var/db/ports from i386-master. 7. On every amd64-slave-NNN, rsync -av --delete: /usr/ports, /usr/local (including /usr/local/distfiles) /var/db/pkg, /var/db/ports from amd64-master. I can see the need to sync /var/db/ports, but isn't /var/db/pkg specific to each machine? Same with /usr/local/distfiles (as far as
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:36:20 -0400, Jerry wrote: Welcome to the wonderful world of printing on FreeBSD. By the way, is the time you are investing in this venture considered billable hours or just self-flagellation? Maybe you can also ask the other way round: BEFORE I buy a product, I ask: Does this product offer compatibility with my OS? Does it support my system? I'm doing so for some years now intendedly, and I spend less money and have less trouble, still I can use the optimal hardware + software combination for the jobs I need them for. Of course, only very few professionals do use this approach, and they are a minority. They are not part of the target audience of manufacturers as they get the most revenue from the home consumer markets; regarding the advanced users, they _rightfully_ say: We don't care, as it doesn't pay. This is a simple logic of the market. Regarding standards: If products are somehow compatible with something that's already established and supported, the the questions at the beginning can be answered with YES, leading to a unit sale. I think this is meant by voting with my wallet, right? Product doesn't work for me - no sale. But as I initially said: Majorities decide in market regards. Those majorities are grown by advertising, which means that their needs are first created, then formed, and finally satisfied. See Jevons paradox in relation to modern products again. On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:59:16 -0400, Jerry wrote: I argued against any standard that strangles the ability to innovate. And I fully agree with that. ANY concept that is intended to limit the possibilities and the evolution of a product (hardware or software) is bad, as it limits freedom, as well as a natural flow of a free market. Certain standards such as port 25 for SMTP are a necessary evil. There are other examples. Yes. Microsoft, since Win95 has had a simple method for the installation of programs and drivers into it system. A program that is attempting to install itself into the system calls msi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer and supplies the needed data to that application. MSI then takes over and installs the application/driver. This allows developers to worry about creating their applications or drivers without the headache of actually installing them. Ha! Very funny. :-) Most software suppliers do use their own installers, just as they use own GUIs (for inconsistency). I know that the MSI mechanism exists for many years, but developers seem to already have no big intention to use it. Windows does not have a concept of centrally managed software search, instalaltion, auditing, upgrading and deinstallation, so this fits the picture well. Also malware, spyware and all the fun you have in Windows land bypasses such means to improve installation habits. This is because users have developed a certain way of how they get programs onto their PCs: First they open a web browser and google for it, then they download some *.EXE file and execute it, go through a wizard, next, next, next, wait, and reboot. This method also applies to drivers. Just look at what manufacturers put onto their installation CDs (or DVDs today), or how they encourage the users to download the stuff from the web. Program cycling (like upgrades) are typically done by each program on its own, individually. Again, marketing concepts apply here: Many software vendors regard the installer as part of their product, as a viewing window needed to have advertising purposes. Things such as company logos, entertainment elements, registration and other things therefore are claimed to _have to_ come in the installer. Oh, and I think you're wrong regarding the year: The MSI system, if I remember correctly, became available in the product Windows 2000. The installer itself depends on the PRESENCE of the proper infrastructure, and there are various incompatible versions across the many kinds of Windows, and you cannot install every MSI version on any arbitrary Windows. This has to be made sure _before_ attempting to install anything that uses the MSI mechanism! The MSI intrastructure is also not freely documented, so it's not fully possible to employ it without further burdens. It's also Windows centric and cannot be used on other systems. And in the future, it's quite possible that certification will be added in order to control _what_ can be installed on a Windows PC and what cannot. And licensing also comes into mind, where coworkers of MICROS~1 are treated as 1st class cititens, whereas competitors would have to buy a license to use this approach. The actual programs to create MSI packages also have to be considered: Are they expensive, in comparison to the free and powerful tools known in the Linux and BSD world? Again, politics enter the field. And then there's the security consideration. MSI as a black box prohibits the proper inspection of its content before it's too late (unlike the packaging
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 21:12:54 +0200 Polytropon articulated: So let me make this more clear: IF the hardware manufacturer wants to allow developers to write drivers for their hardware for free, THEN everything they'd have to do is to publish the control codes for the sheet feeder and the ink pee motors. Conclusion: If they don't do it, they don't want developers to do so. It is their RIGHT, because they own the product, and they may sell it under any circumstances they think will lead to profit. Market rules again. I am just going to reply to this one point because it is where you entire argument breaks down. Assume Big Corporation creates a new printer known as Printer-101 and releases its code for any moron, sorry I meant expert to use to write OS specific drivers for. Now lets assume a user/developer/hobbyist (pick one, any one) decides to write a driver for said Printer-101 and it is adapted by some unnamed OS. Lets name the driver writer Poly. Now users buy this printer for this specific OS because they were told that a suitable driver existed for it on said platform. So far so good. Now comes the fun part. The printers output sucks. There are numerous system lockups and other really bad things happening. The manufacturer, Big Corporation finds its sales of Printer-101 sinking faster than the Titanic. After a lengthy investigation it is found that the printer is sound and the codes supplied were correct. The problem is with the horrific driver written by Poly. Now tell me, should Poly be held financially responsible for this abomination? The odds are that Poly will be hiding off in a basement somewhere unreachable. We haven't even touched on what happens if Big Corporation finds a glitch with the printer and needs a modification in its firmware and modifications to Poly's driver script. Who supplies them and what happens when Poly disappears? Check out MOVED in the ports. There are numerous applications that are just abandoned or discontinued. If something breaks I want someone to contact. I realize that is not the Open Source way however. The thought of someone actually being responsible is rare indeed. I buy my cars from known corporations and not the local chop-shop. My drugs come form known pharmaceutical corporations and not the local pusher. I like my device specific codes to come from those best able to supply them, the OEM. As stated in another post, if a suitable platform were created for manufacturers to distribute their drivers, whether it be printers, modems, wireless devices, etcetera, the problem would be solved. Of course it is easier for all the non-windows based OSs to have a pissing contest rather than create a unified front so I am confident that the prospect of that occurring in my life time are nil. -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Oct 28, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Jerry wrote: Check out MOVED in the ports. There are numerous applications that are just abandoned or discontinued. If something breaks I want someone to contact. I realize that is not the Open Source way however. The thought of someone actually being responsible is rare indeed. When you use Open Source software, _you_ are responsible for it, and not the author(s) to the extent that such responsibility can legally be disclaimed. See the Disclaimer in all-caps here, for example: http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/freebsd-license.html Don't like it? Feel free to use something else, or feel free to pay for a level of support that suits you. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:14:26 -0700 Chuck Swiger articulated: On Oct 28, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Jerry wrote: Check out MOVED in the ports. There are numerous applications that are just abandoned or discontinued. If something breaks I want someone to contact. I realize that is not the Open Source way however. The thought of someone actually being responsible is rare indeed. When you use Open Source software, _you_ are responsible for it, and not the author(s) to the extent that such responsibility can legally be disclaimed. Which is exactly what I stated. -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:04:19 -0400, Jerry wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 21:12:54 +0200
Polytropon articulated:
So let me make this more clear: IF the hardware manufacturer
wants to allow developers to write drivers for their hardware
for free, THEN everything they'd have to do is to publish the
control codes for the sheet feeder and the ink pee motors.
Conclusion: If they don't do it, they don't want developers
to do so. It is their RIGHT, because they own the product,
and they may sell it under any circumstances they think will
lead to profit. Market rules again.
I am just going to reply to this one point because it is where you
entire argument breaks down.
Assume Big Corporation creates a new printer known as Printer-101 and
releases its code for any moron, sorry I meant expert to use to write
OS specific drivers for.
[...]
We haven't even touched on what happens if Big Corporation finds a
glitch with the printer and needs a modification in its firmware and
modifications to Poly's driver script. Who supplies them and what
happens when Poly disappears?
Valid point, haven't thought about that yet. The
implications are interesting...
It does not invalidate my argumentation, but it is
worth being considered. Bad advertising could be
considered a downside in unit sales, such as it
happens with GPU vendors whose cards to not work
properly on Linux -- they won't get recommended
for use, instead a competitor will make the sale.
But the manufacturers can create that effect theirselves
by releasing crappy drivers. Due to the short life
of hardware, they don't seem to consider drivers
an essential part of their product, as it does
break next year anyway, an attitude fully matching
the current state of the art, the throwaway society.
That's why driver support is often designed towards
(and limited to!) a specific kind of Windows (as
they make the main target audience, the majority,
the biggest slice of market share).
Fully understandable from a corporate point of view.
Shortsighted in many cases maybe, but understandable.
Why invest time (and therefore, money) in developing
Linux drivers when the product will be withdrawn in
the next year anyway, and the amount of Linux users
going to buy the product are nearly zero, so the
revenue will be quite small, and in _no_ relation
to the investition of developing drivers.
Take USB hard disks for example. As manufacturers
have decided to use _one_ plug, as well as _one_
command set, I can virtually buy any external hard
disk without worrying about compatibility, and I
don't need any company to develop a driver for
that disk for the OS I'm using.
I wish this could be the default situation with
any device, be it a media player, printer+scanner,
USB toy or anything else. A standard that gives
a broad interface with _all_ options available
so the manufacturer can invent any extraordinary
functionality he wants, depending on that tool-
set. Basically, that's what their current drivers
do: They take a limited set of commands (in some
programming language, assembler, C, whatever is
currently considere modern in Windows, who knows)
and implements the functionality with this _closed_
set of tools, creating something new. Why not do
that with a toolset that's available anywhere, and
that can be ported to any new platform? Without
paying license fees and handing them over to
customers, hoping on the good will of possible
competitors who hold the licensing rights so
they won't destroy the product, and maybe the
whole manufacturing company?
The big chance: The Yes, it also works on ...
could increase unit sales, and the perspective for
the future would be good: Without developing sets
of new drivers (for different kinds of Windows
on different architectures, {m,n}-matrix) they
could state that their product will also work with
future devices. Interoperability, maybe this will
also be more important in the future?
A unified structure that gets PROPERLY (!) implemented
on different platforms could be the solution. It
would not limit inventions or further development.
Check out MOVED in the ports. There are numerous applications that
are just abandoned or discontinued. If something breaks I want someone
to contact. I realize that is not the Open Source way however. The
thought of someone actually being responsible is rare indeed.
There are companies offering support for payment, while
the product they are using and promoting basically is
free of charge. Maybe such a model could be adopted in
such cases?
I buy my cars from known corporations and not the local chop-shop. My
drugs come form known pharmaceutical corporations and not the local
pusher. I like my device specific codes to come from those best able to
supply them, the OEM.
This is what you _need_ to rely on as long as you cannot
validate the products yourself. In many cases, you need
very precide knowledge, maybe technology and tools, to
be sure. This is _knowing_. By
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:04:19 -0400, Jerry je...@seibercom.net pontificated: I buy my cars from known corporations and not the local chop-shop. My drugs come form known pharmaceutical corporations and not the local pusher. I like my device specific codes to come from those best able to supply them, the OEM. I am just going to reply to this one point because it is where you(sic) entire argument breaks down. That attitude is entirely acceptable for _your_ decision making. Asserting that nobody else shoul have any other alternatives to what you think is 'acceptable' is downright fascist. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:35:20 -0500 (CDT) Robert Bonomi articulated: On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:04:19 -0400, Jerry je...@seibercom.net pontificated: I buy my cars from known corporations and not the local chop-shop. My drugs come form known pharmaceutical corporations and not the local pusher. I like my device specific codes to come from those best able to supply them, the OEM. I am just going to reply to this one point because it is where you(sic) entire argument breaks down. That attitude is entirely acceptable for _your_ decision making. Asserting that nobody else shoul(sic) have any other alternatives to what you think is 'acceptable' is downright fascist. Who, or is it whom you choose to be your supplier is entirely a decision you have to make based on your needs and desires. My point is that anyone offering such products should be to some degree held legally responsible to their worth. A Fly by Night operation is totally unacceptable to me. If you find it acceptable then so be it. Remember the adage: You get what you pay for. By the way, calling me a Fascist when a significant number of users of Open Source are socialist is rather funny. -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:17:46 -0500 (CDT) Robert Bonomi articulated: P.S. If _anybody_ wants to accuse me of 'name-calling', note well that Jerry started it, and without any provocation. Mommy.mommy, come quick. The boy next door is picking on me. -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
header files?:: where?
yes, i'm still messing with my curses pgm and have made some discoveries---among them, that xmodmap might be interferring with my configuration. anyway, anybody know where the following headers might be found/ #include gen_defs.h #include ciolib.h #include curs_cio.h #include keys.h #include mouse.h #include vidmodes.h tia, y'all! gary -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:54:01 -0400, Jerry wrote: Remember the adage: You get what you pay for. That's often true - especially in the home consumer market you mostly get crap, this is what you pay for. But in some cases, you can't control _what_ you get just per payment, means: Just because it's more expensive does NOT mean it's better than the cheaper competitor product. Money is not the selective means here. Knowledge is. Gaining that knowledge is an investment of time that traditionally pays in the end. Some have to learn that the hard way. By the way, calling me a Fascist when a significant number of users of Open Source are socialist is rather funny. Can you show me some evidences that proof that a significant number of users of Open Source are socialist please? Or may I simply dismiss this statement as a claim with _no_ backup? Really man... I'd like to know where you got THAT stupid idea from... Because I think it is wrong. Do you call big companies and small businesses socialist because they employ, let's say Linux, as the basis of their business, which is to make money... would you call them socialist? I'd say they're capitalist, as they're acting on a free market where they _choose_ the best product for a particular job, and the fact that this product can be purchased for free does not turn the business into a giveaway charity club! So using open source products (or let's generalize: free software) is often the _better_ solution for a capitalist (that's anyone who doesn't want to give money away for crap, as it doesn't pay!), because it maximizes revenue when you have to spend less money on software that doesn't do the job. Remember: it's ALWAYS about a particular job getting done, a requirement or a need that selects _which_ software gets purchased -- for $$$ or for 0. That has NOTHING do do with socialism. Please try to consolidate your terminology. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:54:01 -0400 Jerry je...@seibercom.net supersciliously ponftificated: On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:35:20 -0500 (CDT) Robert Bonomi articulated: On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:04:19 -0400, Jerry je...@seibercom.net pontificated: I buy my cars from known corporations and not the local chop-shop. My drugs come form known pharmaceutical corporations and not the local pusher. I like my device specific codes to come from those best able to supply them, the OEM. I am just going to reply to this one point because it is where you(sic) entire argument breaks down. That attitude is entirely acceptable for _your_ decision making. Asserting that nobody else shoul(sic) have any other alternatives to what you think is 'acceptable' is downright fascist. Who, or is it whom you choose to be your supplier is entirely a decision you have to make based on your needs and desires. My point is that anyone offering such products should be to some degree held legally responsible to their worth. Of course, _every_ piece of freeware comes with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. If you don't like it, for _any_reason_whatsoever_, your money will be immediately refunded, in full. You don't even have to return the (in your view) defective, product -- or even stop using it. A Fly by Night operation is totally unacceptable to me. If you find it acceptable then so be it. Remember the adage: You get what you pay for. By the way, calling me a Fascist when a significant number of users of Open Source are socialist is rather funny. What 'some others' are, and what _you_ are, are unrelated subjects. Your insistance on trying to impose -your- standards on the world, and denying them the 'freedom of choice' to make their own decisions on the matter -- e.g. anyone offering such products should be to some degree held legally responsible to their worth -- is a fascist mind-set. You 'know better' than anybody else, what is 'right' _for_ them. snort BTW, I'd _love_ to see Microsoft held legally respnsible for _their_ product shortcomings. They'd be out of business in a week at the outside. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:54:01 -0400 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:35:20 -0500 (CDT) Robert Bonomi articulated: On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:04:19 -0400, Jerry je...@seibercom.net pontificated: I buy my cars from known corporations and not the local chop-shop. My drugs come form known pharmaceutical corporations and not the local pusher. I like my device specific codes to come from those best able to supply them, the OEM. I am just going to reply to this one point because it is where you(sic) entire argument breaks down. That attitude is entirely acceptable for _your_ decision making. Asserting that nobody else shoul(sic) have any other alternatives to what you think is 'acceptable' is downright fascist. Who, or is it whom you choose to be your supplier is entirely a decision you have to make based on your needs and desires. My point is that anyone offering such products should be to some degree held legally responsible to their worth. A Fly by Night operation is totally unacceptable to me. If you find it acceptable then so be it. Remember the adage: You get what you pay for. By the way, calling me a Fascist when a significant number of users of Open Source are socialist is rather funny. From a point of view a political sciences theorist might assume, fascism and socialism are not that far apart. Both need to abolish individual liberties quite soon. Which is what you seem to claim ... abolish the right of the individual to make contracts based on his/her terms. BTW, I do not believe that many open source users would accept a serious decline of their civil and legal liberty. So I do not believe many are really more than cherry-picking socialists, even if calling oneself socialist is somehow en vogue. We could debate anarchism, though, ... ;-) -- Christopher J. Ruwe TZ GMT + 2 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: header files?:: where?
On Oct 28, 2011, at 3:24 PM, Gary Kline wrote: yes, i'm still messing with my curses pgm and have made some discoveries---among them, that xmodmap might be interferring with my configuration. anyway, anybody know where the following headers might be found/ #include gen_defs.h #include ciolib.h #include curs_cio.h Couldn't find any of those. #include keys.h #include mouse.h Maybe these are from the XFree86 source: HEAD/xc/lib/font/Speedo/keys.h HEAD/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/input/mouse/mouse.h NOTE: Here's the cvsup file I use to pull down XFree86 source... BEGIN xc-all.cvsup *default host=anoncvs.xfree86.org *default base=/usr/opshome/dteske/src/xfree86/HEAD *default prefix=/usr/opshome/dteske/src/xfree86/HEAD *default release=cvs tag=. *default delete use-rel-suffix *default compress cvs-base doctools-all contrib-all utils-all xtest-all xc-all END xc-all.cvsup #include vidmodes.h Couldn't find this one. -- Devin _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: header files?:: where?
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 15:24:13 -0700 From: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: header files?:: where? yes, i'm still messing with my curses pgm and have made some discoveries---among them, that xmodmap might be interferring with my configuration. anyway, anybody know where the following headers might be found/ #include gen_defs.h #include ciolib.h #include curs_cio.h #include keys.h #include mouse.h #include vidmodes.h The fact that they're in double-quotes indicates that they should be in the working directory or somewhere that must be specified by an '-I' on the compile line. Anything that is 'expected' to be in the 'standard' #include hierearchy is put in angle-brackets instead of double-quotes. Therefore, 'RFTM' is _the_ answer to figuring out where they 'should' be found. 'Somewhere there are directions about using those headers, which will tell you about where they are to be found. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:27:03 -0500 (CDT), Robert Bonomi wrote: Your insistance on trying to impose -your- standards on the world, and denying them the 'freedom of choice' to make their own decisions on the matter -- e.g. anyone offering such products should be to some degree held legally responsible to their worth -- is a fascist mind-set. You 'know better' than anybody else, what is 'right' _for_ them. snort There is a market for those who don't want to think before buying, who just want to buy, who want to be told what's the right way. In a free society, it's also a freedom to give up the individual choice, as strange as it sounds. By spending more money, customers are able to buy theirselves free from doubt and fear. I admit that this attitude shares aspects of a typical belief or even religion. This concept runs the thing we currently call the self-controlling market. BTW, I'd _love_ to see Microsoft held legally respnsible for _their_ product shortcomings. They'd be out of business in a week at the outside. Would benefiting a healthy and free market, which means real capitalism (not the stage show we're experiencing today). :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote: A better example would be a web browser or word processor. The program stops responding to further input until the printer has received the entire print job. This bothered people enough that they came up with lpd/lpr ... Back when lpr/lpd were first written, it was not just a matter of the printer receiving the entire print job but of (nearly) the entire job being completely printed. Few printers had more than a one-line buffer in those days. There was also the matter of sharing the printer among a considerable number of concurrent users, those being the days of multiuser PDP-11's and VAXen. BTW there was nothing particularly innovative about lpr/lpd -- mainframes like IBM 360's and even 7090's had been using print spoolers for years. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:44:59 +0200, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:27:03 -0500 (CDT), Robert Bonomi wrote: Your insistance on trying to impose -your- standards on the world, and denying them the 'freedom of choice' to make their own decisions on the matter -- e.g. anyone offering such products should be to some degree held legally responsible to their worth -- is a fascist mind-set. You 'know better' than anybody else, what is 'right' _for_ them. snort There is a market for those who don't want to think before buying, who just want to buy, who want to be told what's the right way. In a free society, it's also a freedom to give up the individual choice, as strange as it sounds. Yup. No argument -- idiots are free to do as they chose. I, however, object -- *most*strenuously* -- when those self-same fascist idiots try to force -their- determination of what is 'right' on me. BTW, I'd _love_ to see Microsoft held legally respnsible for _their_ product shortcomings. They'd be out of business in a week at the outside. Would benefiting a healthy and free market, which means real capitalism (not the stage show we're experiencing today). :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 01:28:30 -0700 Ronald F. Guilmette r...@tristatelogic.com wrote: This isn't really a question. It's more of a semi-rant, combined with some information that I wanted to put on the record (so that it can be googled) because it may benefit some folks, other than just me. I'm impatient by nature, and I don't like CUPS. (I would say that I hate it, but I don't actually feel that strongly.) I have two personal workstations. When I say personal I mean it. I'm the only one who ever touches them. I think I have over 50 ports depending on CUPS in one way or another.. but I've never configured or knowingly used CUPS. The easiest way I've found for printing is ports/print/apsfilter. It seems to support a lot of printers and has a configuration script that generates the /etc/printcap file. There is a guide at http://www.freebsddiary.org/apsfilter.php Take a look at http://www.apsfilter.org/ for detailed information. Randy ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How to dual-boot FreeBSD 9 with Linux?
Unga unga...@yahoo.com writes: Hi all Is any one by now successfully dual-booting FreeBSD 9 with Linux? I have tried with OpenSuse 11.4 with FreeBSD 9. OpenSuse installs Grub1 to mbr. Grub1 doesn't seem to support FreeBSD 9. It cannot recognise the file system type. Any help in this regard is very much appreciated. It isn't very difficult and there are at least two ways to do it. Grub1 actually does support ffs and ufs2 file systems, but the linux distributions don't seem to include the drivers. If you can get the source, that should have all of them. I think that I just got the grub package from the FreeBSD file system and copied the additional drivers directly into my linux grub directory, but I am not sure now. The other way is to use the 'chainloader' command. You just specify the disk and partition (slice) with the root command, and then add the commands 'chainloader +1' and 'boot'. The chainloader command just means to boot whatever is at the first sector of the previously specified disk and slice. I think the first sector of a ufs2 file system just jumps to the loader. The menu items from mine are just: title FreeBSD /boot/loader root(hd1,2,a) kernel /boot/loader boot title FreeBSD chainloader root(hd1,2) chainloader +1 boot In my case, those specifies that they use the third slice on the second disk. The first menu item requires that you already have the 'ufs2_stage1_5' file in your grub directory. -- Carl Johnsonca...@peak.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How to dual-boot FreeBSD 9 with Linux?
Is any one by now successfully dual-booting FreeBSD 9 with Linux? I have tried with OpenSuse 11.4 with FreeBSD 9. OpenSuse installs Grub1 to mbr. Grub1 doesn't seem to support FreeBSD 9. It cannot recognise the file system +type. Any help in this regard is very much appreciated. Many thanks in advance. Unga Not yet, but I intend to, once I get Linux built and installed, possibly starting with a cross-compile from FreeBSD 9. On my older computer, i386 (32-bit), I dual-boot FreeBSD 8.2 and Linux (Slackware) using LILO, also FreeDOS on another hard disk, can even boot grub4dos and Plop (http://www.plop.at/) boot manager from LILO. Can you use rootnoverify with grub1 (you must mean grub 0.97)? You could also try grub2, which is in the ports under sysutils. Is your hard disk partitioned MBR or GPT? My hard disk is partitioned GPT, I still can't boot the hard disk directly, but using the System Rescue CD (http://sysresccd.org/), I go to the Super Grub Disk in the floppy images, hit c to get to command prompt, and set root=(hd0,3) kfreebsd /boot/loader boot You would use the actual FreeBSD partition which will probably be different from (hd0,3). Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: How to dual-boot FreeBSD 9 with Linux? [ SOLVED]
- Original Message - From: Carl Johnson ca...@peak.org To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:12 AM Subject: Re: How to dual-boot FreeBSD 9 with Linux? Unga unga...@yahoo.com writes: Hi all Is any one by now successfully dual-booting FreeBSD 9 with Linux? I have tried with OpenSuse 11.4 with FreeBSD 9. OpenSuse installs Grub1 to mbr. Grub1 doesn't seem to support FreeBSD 9. It cannot recognise the file system type. Any help in this regard is very much appreciated. It isn't very difficult and there are at least two ways to do it. Grub1 actually does support ffs and ufs2 file systems, but the linux distributions don't seem to include the drivers. If you can get the source, that should have all of them. I think that I just got the grub package from the FreeBSD file system and copied the additional drivers directly into my linux grub directory, but I am not sure now. The other way is to use the 'chainloader' command. You just specify the disk and partition (slice) with the root command, and then add the commands 'chainloader +1' and 'boot'. The chainloader command just means to boot whatever is at the first sector of the previously specified disk and slice. I think the first sector of a ufs2 file system just jumps to the loader. The menu items from mine are just: title FreeBSD /boot/loader root (hd1,2,a) kernel /boot/loader boot title FreeBSD chainloader root (hd1,2) chainloader +1 boot In my case, those specifies that they use the third slice on the second disk. The first menu item requires that you already have the 'ufs2_stage1_5' file in your grub directory. Hi Carl Thank you very much for the reply. Your second method (ie. chainloader) worked, but the grub still say file system type is unknown. The ufs2_stage1_5 is available in /boot/grub/. Since now I can have a working dual boot with Linux, I conclude this is solved. Best regards Unga ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
