Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called?
I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) add -- to your language list so first 2 would disappear and third will become C. I *don't* want closed-source kit robots where the point is to build the robot the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If Why do you want something like microcontroller to run any OS? What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? running unix on microcontroller-style hardware is what i call nonsense. Writing your program that runs from first executed instruction is what i call normal programming of such devices. The proper way is to 1) buy a microcontrooler chip, make your hardware using it, possibly buy already made boards. microcontrollers are 1$, some more capable 32-bit ones (ARM compatible usually, some are MIPS) for 2-3$. 2) throw away all included libraries because they are mostly mess. prepare something that can be used as crt0.s Better write it yourself in assembly. shouldn't be larger than 5 instructions anyway, a bit more if ARM interrupt vectors are needed to be filled. Some assembly knowledge is very useful, in spite of writing most in C. 3) read documentation. All embedded devices (like A/D converters, PWM generators etc.) are described. With 32-bit micros start from memory MAP chapter and then device description. You will just find out at what address your peripheral is accessible. 4) lets say for example that 32 GPIO pins are accessible at address 0x40001000 for setting ports, 0x40002000 for resetting ports, 0x40003000 for reading out value, and 0x40004000 for setting direction (input/output). #define GPIO0_SET ((int*)0x40001000) #define GPIO0_RESET ((int*)0x40002000) #define GPIO0_READ ((int*)0x40003000) #define GPIO0_DIR ((int*)0x40004000) 5) use it in your program. *GPIO0_DIR=0x; //sets all pins to output *GPIO0_SET=0x; //sets every other pin to 1 *GPIO0_RESET=0x; //set the rest to 0 if you have questions send it privately. microcontrollers are wrong place for unix system and it's overcomplexity relatively to the task. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: No sound in Flash
if you really need flash, you may install gnash from ports. not fully capable but usually works, and doesn't need linux emulator and closed source code. Thanks for the advice about gnash! I've installed it, and removed nspluginwrapper and all the linux stuff. It seems to work perfectly for my purposes. not really perfect but anyway i don't feel i lost something seeing a site that cannot work without flash. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
apache PHP suhosin load
On FreeBSD 8.3 I have apache22 web server with PHP. PHP is PHP52 for compatibility with existing applications, but the most recent version in the php52 branch $ php --version PHP 5.2.17 with Suhosin-Patch 0.9.7 (cli) (built: May 7 2012 08:45:58) From time to time, I notice in a top output, that a huge number of httpd daemons are being started, making the load rapidly increase to levels of 5, 10, 15, ... and very slow interactive respons ... Stopping apache makes the load rapidly decrease to a normal level. I noticed at the console, at stopping apache, several messages such as Jun 14 09:12:20 macos kernel: Jun 14 09:12:20 macos suhosin[28824]: ALERT - canary mismatch on efree() - heap overflow detected (attacker 'REMOTE_ADDR not set', file '/home/wins/win/win/www/wiki/mediawiki-1.16.0/includes/AutoLoader.php', line 654) (the file value differs, but it's always suhosin .. canany mismatch - heap overflow detected) My PHP has following options set # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 My PHP has following options set # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 # make showconfig === The following configuration options are available for php52-5.2.17_8: CLI=on: Build CLI version CGI=on: Build CGI version APACHE=on: Build Apache module DEBUG=off: Enable debug SUHOSIN=on: Enable Suhosin protection system (not for jails) MULTIBYTE=off: Enable zend multibyte support IPV6=on: Enable ipv6 support MAILHEAD=off: Enable mail header patch REDIRECT=off: Enable force-cgi-redirect support (CGI only) DISCARD=off: Enable discard-path support (CGI only) FASTCGI=on: Enable fastcgi support (CGI only) FPM=off: Enable fastcgi process manager (CGI only) PATHINFO=on: Enable path-info-check support (CGI only) LINKTHR=off: Link thread lib (for threaded extensions) Is that heap overlow causing the trouble? Has suhosin to do something with it? How to solve? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: i would recommend you to take more care about yourself, and not me. You are not in the right position to give advice, young man. -- chs, ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Need latest xorg
On 21 jun. 2012, at 05:28, Waitman Gobble gobble...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Matthias Gamsjager mgamsja...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Lynn Steven Killingsworth blue.seahorse.syndic...@gmail.com wrote: I don't seem to have generated much comment. I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't immediately download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? Newer AMD videocards and Freebsd is just pure pain. Dont think the newer xorg will change much. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Hi, Have you considered installing packages? I have a daily sync repo mirror of amd64 and i386 pkgs (Latest/Current) if you experience difficulty accessing the FTP servers. lemme know. Unfortunately I don't have everything mirrored at this time, and not sure how they would fly on 9-x :) Also latest xorg runs great with my AMD HD 6620G, obviously a different class than your AMD HD 7950 but I suppose it could also be considered a 'newer card', first released June 14, 2011, about 6 months before the 7950. Not sure when the cut-off date is. Waitman Gobble Does it run with acceleration? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: apache PHP suhosin load
On 21 Jun 2012, at 08:34, n dhert ndhert...@gmail.com wrote: On FreeBSD 8.3 I have apache22 web server with PHP. PHP is PHP52 for compatibility with existing applications, but the most recent version in the php52 branch $ php --version PHP 5.2.17 with Suhosin-Patch 0.9.7 (cli) (built: May 7 2012 08:45:58) From time to time, I notice in a top output, that a huge number of httpd daemons are being started, making the load rapidly increase to levels of 5, 10, 15, ... and very slow interactive respons ... Stopping apache makes the load rapidly decrease to a normal level. I noticed at the console, at stopping apache, several messages such as Jun 14 09:12:20 macos kernel: Jun 14 09:12:20 macos suhosin[28824]: ALERT - canary mismatch on efree() - heap overflow detected (attacker 'REMOTE_ADDR not set', file '/home/wins/win/win/www/wiki/mediawiki-1.16.0/includes/AutoLoader.php', line 654) (the file value differs, but it's always suhosin .. canany mismatch - heap overflow detected) My PHP has following options set # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 My PHP has following options set # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 # make showconfig === The following configuration options are available for php52-5.2.17_8: CLI=on: Build CLI version CGI=on: Build CGI version APACHE=on: Build Apache module DEBUG=off: Enable debug SUHOSIN=on: Enable Suhosin protection system (not for jails) MULTIBYTE=off: Enable zend multibyte support IPV6=on: Enable ipv6 support MAILHEAD=off: Enable mail header patch REDIRECT=off: Enable force-cgi-redirect support (CGI only) DISCARD=off: Enable discard-path support (CGI only) FASTCGI=on: Enable fastcgi support (CGI only) FPM=off: Enable fastcgi process manager (CGI only) PATHINFO=on: Enable path-info-check support (CGI only) LINKTHR=off: Link thread lib (for threaded extensions) Is that heap overlow causing the trouble? Has suhosin to do something with it? How to solve? For starters, I would suggest moving away from apace and towards nginx + fastcgi php. A friend had a small dedicated server with a vbulletin forum overloaded with addons, and apache/php were bringing the server to high load levels, 10-20ish. I've moved him to nginx and the server hardly ever goes above 1 now. Additionally, nginx is immune to Slowloris attacks, while apache is not. Only after migrating to nginx would I investigate of the suhosin problem still exists.___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: apache PHP suhosin load
n dhert wrote: On FreeBSD 8.3 I have apache22 web server with PHP. PHP is PHP52 for compatibility with existing applications, but the most recent version in the php52 branch $ php --version PHP 5.2.17 with Suhosin-Patch 0.9.7 (cli) (built: May 7 2012 08:45:58) From time to time, I notice in a top output, that a huge number of httpd daemons are being started, making the load rapidly increase to levels of 5, 10, 15, ... and very slow interactive respons ... Stopping apache makes the load rapidly decrease to a normal level. I noticed at the console, at stopping apache, several messages such as Jun 14 09:12:20 macos kernel: Jun 14 09:12:20 macos suhosin[28824]: ALERT - canary mismatch on efree() - heap overflow detected (attacker 'REMOTE_ADDR not set', file '/home/wins/win/win/www/wiki/mediawiki-1.16.0/includes/AutoLoader.php', line 654) (the file value differs, but it's always suhosin .. canany mismatch - heap overflow detected) My PHP has following options set # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 My PHP has following options set # cd /usr/ports/lang/php52 # make showconfig === The following configuration options are available for php52-5.2.17_8: CLI=on: Build CLI version CGI=on: Build CGI version APACHE=on: Build Apache module DEBUG=off: Enable debug SUHOSIN=on: Enable Suhosin protection system (not for jails) MULTIBYTE=off: Enable zend multibyte support IPV6=on: Enable ipv6 support MAILHEAD=off: Enable mail header patch REDIRECT=off: Enable force-cgi-redirect support (CGI only) DISCARD=off: Enable discard-path support (CGI only) FASTCGI=on: Enable fastcgi support (CGI only) FPM=off: Enable fastcgi process manager (CGI only) PATHINFO=on: Enable path-info-check support (CGI only) LINKTHR=off: Link thread lib (for threaded extensions) Is that heap overlow causing the trouble? Has suhosin to do something with it? Most likely - yes. I noticed in your config above you built and installed the Apache PHP module in addition to CGI/FastCGI. If you are running Apache in a FastCGI mode you should check and make sure the following is indeed commented out like below: #LoadModule php5_modulelibexec/apache22/libphp5.so The general purpose meaning of this error is that PHP has detected some form of memory corruption. But as to why/what exactly it doesn't help much. The general way I used to look at Apache and PHP problems was to isolate pieces. Like only loading the core PHP and no extensions by renaming the extensions.ini to extensions.ini.bak. This is bound to cause problems as most PHP apps today require a certain basic number of modules enabled in order to work. 2 things to troubleshoot looking for a bad module: comment each out one at a time and restart. When you comment out the bad one you will no longer see the error. Another second item to be aware of is sometimes certain module combinations need to be loaded in extensions.ini in a specific order. Figuring out this order can be nightmarish, should it ever actaully be found to be a problem. Long time ago someone wrote a script to automate this. I seem to have a distant memory that back in early PHP 5.2.x days I had a problem with the mcrypt module. Maybe try commenting that one out first. If you don't need it leave it that way. I also seem to have experienced this error a second time, and it was from a bad interaction between Suhosin patch and two other build options being enabled, one was the Mailhead and I don't remember what the other one was(maybe it was IPv6). I found when I disabled these 2 things I could build with the Suhosin patch and stuff ran correctly. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Le 21 juin 2012 à 03:52, kpn...@pobox.com a écrit : All of this may seem stupid to a reasonable person outside of law. I'll agree that it probably does look stupid. But it is also the reality of the legal systems we must live with today. I can only praise kpneal for this very well argumented post. However some remarks. The whole argument revolves around FUD, fear, uncertainty and doubt. But there will never be any shortage of lawyers trying to spread FUD on any subject to please their clients, and if companies bend over instead of fighting FUD they will promptly be paralyzed. Last time a company tried to use such tactic against Linux, it did not turn out a bright idea. Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this argument may have a merit for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. If FreeBSD appears as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say Juniper) i am not sure this will be good for its further development. This being said, i agree with you that the FreeBSD binaries will not see a big performance degradation through the use of clang, so, as long as gcc is in the ports to be used with performance critical stuff, it is no big deal. Anyways as a long time FreeBSD user i have seen clang presented as an experiment by two or three people, and then suddenly stuffed without any discussion in the base system, apparently for political reasons that i don't share (i mean this stupid obsession of GPL free system, which has replaced the previous focus on quality and performance). -- Michel Talon ta...@lpthe.jussieu.fr
Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called?
I have one of these http://www.nerdkits.com/ They pack everything you need in and a few examples, quite neat but you need to do some electronics On 21/06/2012, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) add -- to your language list so first 2 would disappear and third will become C. I *don't* want closed-source kit robots where the point is to build the robot the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If Why do you want something like microcontroller to run any OS? What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? running unix on microcontroller-style hardware is what i call nonsense. Writing your program that runs from first executed instruction is what i call normal programming of such devices. The proper way is to 1) buy a microcontrooler chip, make your hardware using it, possibly buy already made boards. microcontrollers are 1$, some more capable 32-bit ones (ARM compatible usually, some are MIPS) for 2-3$. 2) throw away all included libraries because they are mostly mess. prepare something that can be used as crt0.s Better write it yourself in assembly. shouldn't be larger than 5 instructions anyway, a bit more if ARM interrupt vectors are needed to be filled. Some assembly knowledge is very useful, in spite of writing most in C. 3) read documentation. All embedded devices (like A/D converters, PWM generators etc.) are described. With 32-bit micros start from memory MAP chapter and then device description. You will just find out at what address your peripheral is accessible. 4) lets say for example that 32 GPIO pins are accessible at address 0x40001000 for setting ports, 0x40002000 for resetting ports, 0x40003000 for reading out value, and 0x40004000 for setting direction (input/output). #define GPIO0_SET ((int*)0x40001000) #define GPIO0_RESET ((int*)0x40002000) #define GPIO0_READ ((int*)0x40003000) #define GPIO0_DIR ((int*)0x40004000) 5) use it in your program. *GPIO0_DIR=0x; //sets all pins to output *GPIO0_SET=0x; //sets every other pin to 1 *GPIO0_RESET=0x; //set the rest to 0 if you have questions send it privately. microcontrollers are wrong place for unix system and it's overcomplexity relatively to the task. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang)
And I just want to add I'm a gay Marxist atheist and I represent the accusations leveled in that other post...we have feelings too!!! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Snippet from Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl: I successfully predicted the fall of linux (in quality point of view) years ago, then netbsd - after this and my prediction were good. Now i predict FreeBSD will fall within 2015 time frame. What i mean fall - that it would be better to use older version as long as possible because newer are worse. For now - FreeBSD 6 was an improvement - FreeBSD 7 was an improvement, except first releases but that's normal - FreeBSD 8 was a big improvement in performance and quality. FreeBSD 9 as for now: - have similar performance at most - have some improvement and important functionality like TRIM support. - have some useful functionality like softdep journalling, but risky. Still - forcing full check reveals some inconsistencies now and then. FreeBSD 10 will unlikely be better, but for sure slower unless you will force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. My experience with NetBSD suggests you may be right there, but Linux? I'll have to build a new Linux installation and see for myself! I'm still inclined to say FreeBSD 9.0 is an improvement over 8.2; I never got to 8.3. Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: List flames (was Re: Why Clang)
from Stephen Cook scli...@gmail.com: No, this is unusual. But also remember that most of these lists are not just unmoderated but open to posting without subscription. Then it becomes kind of amazing at how little flaming and trolling there is. That's not an accident, the admins work hard to limit abuse. As an alternate, consider the forums (http://forums.freebsd.org/), which are moderated. Because of FreeBSD lists being mainly unmoderated and open to posting without subscription, I notice some outright spams that slip through the list filters. I believe (could possibly be wrong) that the lists have spam filters in place. If a message has properties of spam, it will be held for a human moderator to see if it is spam (dump it) or not spam (let it through). Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: No surround sound with Creative SB Live! card
At 21:07 15/06/2012, Edward M wrote: What do you mean by a decoder is needed? A decorder is either a special plugin/codex that gets installed into the OS ( codex called a52dec) and decoding happens internally. or a hardware device like a stereo receiver that is able to understand Dolby Digital signals from the DVD through S/PDIF connector from the sound card to decorder. however, it only appears you are only missing a52dec? Have you installed a52dec from ports/audio/gstreamer-plugins-a52dec/ ? Perhaps ffmpeg was compiled without some codecs. If you check GPL codecs off, a52 and others are not compiled. Deinstall ffmepeg, do a manual compilation with cd /usr/ports/multimedia/ffmpeg make config install clean, checking the options you want. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. If FreeBSD appears as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say Juniper) i am not sure this will be good I think any project that size is actually a subsidiary and must be. I just don't like that it isn't stated openly! It is nothing wrong, unless one can feed using zero point energy, everyone needs money to stay alive. Wouldn't it be smarter to openly say Juniper request as to get rid o GPL as soon as we can because they are fed up with this shit and law mess. instead of personal attacks, messing with my (and others) sentences and posting evident lies just to explain the decision. It is a difference between honest people and fools. i already proposed (but not publically) to turn FreeBSD into commercial system. REALLY i would not see a problem to pay say 100$ per server licence. There is nothing to prevent giving source with system. Non-Free software doesn't have to be binary only. For paying this i would like FreeBSD to be maintained with quality and performance being the only reason, not politics. Every trendy or otherwise requested feature could be added separately or even charged separately, as long as it doesn't have any effects on base system. ZFS being example. Nothing against Juniper (the make truly good working hardware), but if they enforce decision because of their personal likes then it must be stopped. GPLv3 based C compiler does not prevent making closed source software like JunOS for example. It is only i hate GNU type decision. I hate too, and in spite of this am against removing gcc and replacing it with much worse product. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. My experience with NetBSD suggests you may be right there, but Linux? After commercial support got too much about directing decisions, NetBSD got very quickly useless. I'll have to build a new Linux installation and see for myself! Warning: You may not go through it healthy. I'm still inclined to say FreeBSD 9.0 is an improvement over 8.2; I never got to 8.3. There are some new functionality. rctl may be very very very useful. But as for speed - i don't see it to be better, and at high disk I/O load it seems to get somehow longer stalls but it is subjective, no precise test done. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Is ZFS production ready?
Dear community In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large file systems. Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: List flames (was Re: Why Clang)
Because of FreeBSD lists being mainly unmoderated and open to posting without subscription, I notice some outright spams that slip through the list filters. I believe (could possibly be wrong) that the lists have spam filters in place. it must have and well done. FreeBSD list is for sure more known to spammer than me, while i would get ca 2000 spams per day after turning off my antispam system. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Snippet from Antonio Olivares olivares14...@gmail.com: I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not giving back as the license requires. There was little to no way to enforce the license, he decided to move to other license that protects his work and let others use it was well with little to no strings attached. He know uses the CDDL which is also an Open Source License. He can give you many reasons as to why the GPLv3 is the wrong way to go. I can ask him for these and other reasons at your request. Yes, that would be a good idea, not so much for me as for others who want to better understand the licensing issues of GCC compared to Clang. That would help explain why FreeBSD is switching to Clang. Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most impressed with it so far. rather huge difference. Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ is the place I always look first. and third - manuals. They are in sync with system and actually VERY useful. while i was still (long time ago) using linux most common manual was like this manual is outdated. Use texinfo documentation. and texinfo docs was often outdated too. Today it is most probably look at wikipedia ;) Of course i means FreeBSD base system, ports are not part of FreeBSD and quality varies. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I will go with a single thread. I will also try to keep it as short as possible. Please note that it is not my intention to start a flame-war against anyone or any project. I am stating my experiences, the goals I would like to achieve and some questions I have. Suggestions and directions (to put me on track) are greatly welcome and appreciated. Questions will be marked with a q) at the beginning of the line. Introduction and background I have been using GNU/Linux for quite a while and I am most comfortable with Archlinux. The reason I like it is it's simplicity from the ground up without wasting too much time on unimportant details (unless you want to). Another strong point is that it provides binary packages by default, user-building of packages if you want to, and the same level of customization you can achieve with - say - Gentoo Linux. FreeBSD seems to provide that. I learned over the years that (re-)compilation of packages is not something I want to do regularly, but something I would like to do only when I need and want to (ie, to strip out or add a certain compile-time feature from/to a package). I also learned that the performance gains of tuning compiler flags for a certain CPU are not that drastic for a desktop/laptop/workstation machine workflow and that this category of computing is mostly bound by IO speed (especially with HDDs). q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting to ports when really needed? What set me off, and got me tired of dealing with Linux-based systems is a set of patterns that have been repeating over for some years now. Generally: 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every Linux kernel release). 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with v4l, gstreamer and cheese. 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to anything. 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop environment). 3. Those daemons are increasingly hard and obscure to configure (ie, huge XML files, complex hierarchies, etc). 3. Due to having to run and interact with each other all the time, those daemons are sucking the life out of my laptop battery (according to powertop). 4. Probably other frustrations that I have forgotten about. 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but it needs to be working well. Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, consolekit and policykit. I am aware that those solutions are there to solve complex problems (thus their inherent complexity) and that many bright people with a lot of experience have thought about them and worked on those projects. My frustration is that those solutions are: 1. At the cost of making simple tasks more complex. 2. Replacing or conflicting with the previously existing solution. 3. Sometimes very unstable and unusable. q) Where does the FreeBSD project stand on this matter? From what I noticed is that the base system seems to adhere to the tranditional flat text files for configuration and simple tools that do a good job, leaving it up to the user to combine those small tools to create larger, more complex ones (a UNIX inheritance). q) Is a FreeBSD stable base system with current high-level components possible? Will it avoid the issues I experienced on Linux-based systems? My goal I
Re: Why Clang
wrong way to go. I can ask him for these and other reasons at your request. Yes, that would be a good idea, not so much for me as for others who want to better understand the licensing issues of GCC compared to Clang. i would like to hear this. but only in C compiler context. i understand the other issues, but IMHO there are none about using GPLv3 licenced compiler to compile non-opensource programs. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
Hi, I think it is stable enough on FreeBSD. Someone actually posted quite a similar thread not a while ago.. Here'e a quick summary: For my various OpenSource projects, I have deployed a 36TB file system which is fine and stable running 24/7. Additionally at home I use 4TB (2x 2TB) + 8TB (2x 4TB) on a machine with 4GB RAM this has been up for 3 years with minimum reboot! - this system gets pretty hammered as lot's of front ends for my OpenSource stuff run off there plus I transfer large amounts of data 10's of GB's often between systems. For web stuff I get round 20,000-30,000 hits from various places on that particular box and it handles perfectly unlike my crappy Cisco 857 router - will redeploy a uni-socket server running OpenBSD for this one. Good luck! Regards, Kaya On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 8:33 AM, Hooman Fazaeli hoomanfaza...@gmail.com wrote: Dear community In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large file systems. Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. The correct answer would be. I depends on the work load ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I will go with a single thread. I will also try to keep it as short as possible. Please note that it is not my intention to start a flame-war against anyone or any project. I am stating my experiences, the goals i - in reply - just told you my experiences with linux which was actually my first unix-like OS. I learned over the years that (re-)compilation of packages is not something I want to do regularly, but something I would like to do only when I need and want to (ie, to strip out or add a certain compile-time feature from/to a package). I also learned that the performance gains of tuning compiler flags for a certain CPU are not that drastic for a desktop/laptop/workstation machine workflow and that this category of computing is mostly bound by IO speed (especially with HDDs). true. anyway if you want anything else that default compile options you have to rebuild. q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In you may use all binary packages. You may even do pkg_add ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/.../packagename.tbz and it works, and will fetch dependencies too if needed. you may use source builds, or mix of both. you just do portsnap fetch portsnap update to get ports tree up to date. other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting to ports when really needed? it depends on ports. Some are easy to deal with some are not. 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every Linux kernel release). 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with v4l, gstreamer and cheese. 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to anything. This programs are not part of FreeBSD, just as they are not part of linux (linux is kernel). webcamd, gstreamer etc.. are still the same programs no matter if you compile then under linux and freebsd. as for point 2 it would probably be better with FreeBSD :) 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. In that respect FreeBSD is 100 times better. But still - PORTS are not FreeBSD. There are tens of thousands of them. Most are the same programs that run on linux, just packaging differ. And nobody can be sure something will not get f...d up. 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. FreeBSD starts only inetd and cron by default. As for me it is already too much in /etc/crontab :) 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop environment). No such a problem under FreeBSD. But when compiling xorg-server from ports i recommend turning off SUID and HAL options. 3. Those daemons are increasingly hard and obscure to configure (ie, huge XML files, complex hierarchies, etc). FreeBSD base system is not like that. But still - if you use the same thing that in linux it would be the same. Anyway human have brain and can use it. So prepare your environment that would fit your needs and nothing else. 3. Due to having to run and interact with each other all the time, those daemons are sucking the life out of my laptop battery (according to powertop). No such problem on my laptop. It runs 1.5 hours longer than official specs. enable powerd in /etc/rc.conf - powerd is a part of base system, not addon. Works great. 4. Probably other frustrations that I have forgotten about. You should not forgot them so you will not ever want to go back to linux. 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but it needs to be working well. I don't really know what linux community want to achieve. For my observation they wanted to compete with microsoft windows. And they exceeded the target - it's even more messy and uncontrollable. Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, consolekit and policykit. You do not need any of them under FreeBSD. It is useful to have dbus daemon running for whole machine in many use cases but not really needed. I am aware that those solutions are there to solve complex problems which was first created. I have two laptops (Asus N73JQ, Asus U36S) which I use as work machines. Power efficiency is very important, efficient disk access too. Suspend to ram and hiberation would be nice to have but are not utterly important. q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is fast enough for a laptop? If you have
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
21.06.2012 15:52, Wojciech Puchar пишет: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I see the trend here. That guy is determined to shove his opinion down the throat of everybody. Stop it, tis most annoying. Back to the topic. ZFS support has matured greatly since the last time you tried it, currently freebsd supports zfs pool v. 28 in the last updates. Try it, it won't disappoint you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
For my various OpenSource projects, I have deployed a 36TB file system which is fine and stable running 24/7. Additionally at home I use 4TB (2x 2TB) + 8TB (2x 4TB) on a machine with 4GB RAM this has been up for 3 years with minimum reboot! Good. There are some companies that make for living recovering data from unbreakable ZFS :) You may be just lucky. or they will make some money. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. The correct answer would be. I depends on the work load For different kinds of production workload it doesn't, aat least for me. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Hooman Fazaeli hoomanfaza...@gmail.comwrote: Dear community In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large file systems. Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? Like I said. It depends. Could you give a better description about the expected work load. (DB, NFS filer etc) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
Fred Morcos writes: q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting to ports when really needed? Mostly, yes. There are down-sides, but if you're building a client where specific functionality is not needed and performance is not crucial - yes. 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every Linux kernel release). 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with v4l, gstreamer and cheese. 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to anything. To work in FreeBSD-land, you're going to need to understand the difference between the system and the ports. Also, the difference between CURRENT and STABLE releases. See the Handbook for more information. 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. Not much of this. 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop environment). Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, consolekit and policykit. Hal and dbus are used by a fair number of programs; many can be compiled not to used them, with varying consequences. As for the others: on a system with 882 ports installed, 44 use pulseaudio, 61 use consolekit and 62 use policykit. (Porbably a high degree of overlap there.) 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but it needs to be working well. Everything is a work in progress. :-) q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the HDDs in the first laptop. I am given to understand ZFS can do some wonderful things ... but uses a _lot_ of memory, which may be unacceptable. q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on packages? Yes, assuming you're willing to live with the default options for each. Note: there may be ports whose packages are - for various reasons - not of the most recent version. q) I noticed all file/data-sizes are in bytes (ls, dd, etc), is there a way to change that system-wide to be in human-readable format? Check out the BLOCKSIZE environment variable, and the -H/-h setting to individual programs. q) Is there a tool that can test a set of mirrors for connection time and speed (for packages and ports)? Analogous to Archlinux's rankmirrors? sysutils/fastest_cvsup q) I noticed in the ports collection that there were some outdated packages (skype-2.2, gimp-2.6), should I report that and where? (A PR?) Generally - the right people know. What they don't know is when they will have the time (and in some cases, motivation) to import (and test) the latest version. Anyone can submit patches. The default person in charge of dealing with patches is the maintainer, who can be identified by going to the port directory and doing make MAINTAINER. Talking to the maintainer about new versions and trouble with old versions is both polite and (usually) more efficient. (For some large projects - Gnome, KDE, Mozilla, Java, etc. - the maintainer is a team.) Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
On 21/06/2012 12:24, Fred Morcos wrote: q) I am currently considering 3 disks for a home micro-server, with ZFS striping with the third disk being a parity disk. In case I decide to buy a fourth disk in the future and add it to the pool, is ZFS capable of re-structuring the data on-the-fly to have 2 sets of striping (without parity, so 2 disks each) and on top of that a mirror? Analogous to the following: +---+ |Stripe2 mirrors Stripe1| +---+---+ |Stripe1|Stripe2| +---+---+---+---+ | Disk1 | Disk2 | Disk3 | Disk4 | +---+---+---+---+ Just picking one of your questions arbitrarily -- not that there's anything wrong with the others, but this I had to comment on. And the comment is: Don't do it like that. viz. Don't mirror the stripes: stripe the mirrors instead. +---+ |Stripe | +---+---+ |Mirror1|Mirror2| +---+---+---+---+ | Disk1 | Disk2 | Disk3 | Disk4 | +---+---+---+---+ Why this way? Well, consider what happens if one of your disks fails. With your original plan (RAID0+1): A failed disk in a stripe immediately takes the whole stripe out of action, so you're left operating on only two drives and you have no resilience to further failures. With my plan (RAID10): A failed drive means you lose resilience in one of the mirrors -- the other mirror can carry on as usual, and you will still be making full use of all the remaining drives. It's also faster to recover when you replace the failed drive -- you only have to resilver one disk's worth. Now, your actual question: can you convert a RAIDz (which is what I assume you mean by with the third disk being a parity disk) to a RAID10 transparently? No. You can add another vdev (ie. a disk, mirrored pair or RAIDz group) to expand the size, but you can't radically rearrange the devices in your zpool without manual intervention. What you can do is: add your new disk to the system, and remove one drive from your RAIDz (so the RAIDz is running in degraded mode). You can create a new zpool from those two disks -- temporarily as a RAID0 stripe across the pair. You can then do 'zfs send' | 'zfs receive' to copy your filesystem contents over to the new zpool. Reboot so the system is running live on the new zpool, destroy the old zpool and then insert those drives into the new zpool so they mirror drives already there. That's a lot of copying stuff around, and all the while you won't have any resilience against disk failure. Plenty of scope for disastrous errors. Make sure you have very good backups. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: For my various OpenSource projects, I have deployed a 36TB file system which is fine and stable running 24/7. Additionally at home I use 4TB (2x 2TB) + 8TB (2x 4TB) on a machine with 4GB RAM this has been up for 3 years with minimum reboot! Good. There are some companies that make for living recovering data from unbreakable ZFS :) You may be just lucky. or they will make some money. And there are many happy users with ZFS (fbsd and opensolaris/solaris). Guess they are all wrong. I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with customers who want to use their data again. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
+---+ |Stripe | +---+---+ |Mirror1|Mirror2| +---+---+---+---+ | Disk1 | Disk2 | Disk3 | Disk4 | +---+---+---+---+ true. but there are mirror/stripe layout that is quite better in performance than yours where writes are not dominant ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, 2012-06-21 at 12:03 +0430, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: Dear community In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large file systems. Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? System 1: 32 cores, Interlagos, 64GB, 18TB RAIDz1 System 2: 64 cores, Interlagos, 128GB, 15TB RAIDz1 System 3: 8 cores, Bulldozer, 16GB, 27TB RAIDz2 Those are the main volumes on those systems. There are smaller ZFS volumes. I have other systems also ZFS (total of seven systems), typically with one or more 5-10TB RAIDz1 volumes. All systems RELENG_9. Stable? Yes. Be sure you have up-to-date FreeBSD kernel and your HBA firmware is up-to-date. Generally I use LSI 9211 cards. That said, the weak point is the drives. For example, one system has 6 Hitachi 4TB drives and there are three more in other systems -- 30% failure rate within one year. I've also had several failures with Seagate drives across two years. Zero failures with WD drives (12 drives in one ZFS array, IIRC) however those are slower, cheap drives. I am also working with compressed volumes because my data is very large and highly compressable. Compressed volumes, as you would expect, has a significant kernel performance impact depending on what you are doing. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 21.06.2012 07:39, Dennis Glatting wrote: Stable? Yes. Be sure you have up-to-date FreeBSD kernel and your HBA firmware is up-to-date. Generally I use LSI 9211 cards. Does the 9211 support JBOD (complete plain disks, no RAID or single disk RAID mess)? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
Hi, On Thursday 21 June 2012 18:24:26 Fred Morcos wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting to ports when really needed? you can run both the operating system and the ports from prebuilt binaries. What set me off, and got me tired of dealing with Linux-based systems is a set of patterns that have been repeating over for some years now. Generally: 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every Linux kernel release). You will not find this kind of chaos here. Maybe a hint. I leave always one big release out. With other words. If you start now with 9, you do not have to move to 10 but you can stick with 9 until 11 comes out. You do not even have to upgrade at the spot. 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with v4l, gstreamer and cheese. 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to anything. Things like this happened in the past too. But it is very, very rare and happens most likely with older hardware and not new one. 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. Welcome to Linux. 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop environment). 3. Those daemons are increasingly hard and obscure to configure (ie, huge XML files, complex hierarchies, etc). This was avoided here. 3. Due to having to run and interact with each other all the time, those daemons are sucking the life out of my laptop battery (according to powertop). I do not wonder. On the other side, power management is not the best on FreeBSD. 4. Probably other frustrations that I have forgotten about. 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but it needs to be working well. FreeBSD has here one simple advantage. It is not integrated by any means into a GUI. Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, consolekit and policykit. Said to say but these friends are also available here. They are not part of FreeBSD and some can be avoided. I am aware that those solutions are there to solve complex problems (thus their inherent complexity) and that many bright people with a lot of experience have thought about them and worked on those projects. My frustration is that those solutions are: 1. At the cost of making simple tasks more complex. 2. Replacing or conflicting with the previously existing solution. 3. Sometimes very unstable and unusable. I think you see here Linux as a distribution. Things like this are avoided with FreeBSD itself but not wit the ports. The ports have nothing much to do with FreeBSD except that they work on FreeBSD. q) Where does the FreeBSD project stand on this matter? From what I noticed is that the base system seems to adhere to the tranditional flat text files for configuration and simple tools that do a good job, leaving it up to the user to combine those small tools to create larger, more complex ones (a UNIX inheritance). I read sometime comments that people want to make it more complex. q) Is a FreeBSD stable base system with current high-level components possible? Will it avoid the issues I experienced on Linux-based systems? Yes and no. As an example. I have had to run Fedora 16 on my x220 for some reasons. I was surprised how fast it is when I moved yesterday to FreeBSD. Some of the differences have to do with the deamons as you described above. My goal I have two laptops (Asus N73JQ, Asus U36S) which I use as work machines. Power efficiency is very important, efficient disk access too. Suspend to ram and hiberation would be nice to have but are not utterly important. q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is fast enough for a laptop? I use UFS since 2004/5 on laptops. q) Does ZFS make sense on a laptop? Any advantages of using it over USF with J+SU? I am not interested in any striping or mirroring on the laptops, but the compression features is very attractive for the HDDs in the first laptop. It did not make sense for me. q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? q) Can I live with a desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) and desktop applications (Firefox, Libreoffice, etc) by relying only on packages? It should work when you start off from the release versions. q) Does
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
Maybe a hint. I leave always one big release out. With other words. If you start now with 9, you do not have to move to 10 but you can stick with 9 until 11 comes out. You do not even have to upgrade at the spot. my as i do - i for now run FreeBSD 8, and will run 9 when it will be needed with new hardware (drivers) or it will have clearly noticable adventages of speed and/or functionality. I think you see here Linux as a distribution. Things like this are avoided with FreeBSD itself but not wit the ports. The ports have nothing much to do with FreeBSD except that they work on FreeBSD. repeating once again. FreeBSD base system is one complete and consistent thing. ports are another. If one run program X under linux, it will be the same program X under FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
System 1: 32 cores, Interlagos, 64GB, 18TB RAIDz1 System 2: 64 cores, Interlagos, 128GB, 15TB RAIDz1 System 3: 8 cores, Bulldozer, 16GB, 27TB RAIDz2 what these systems do? (no details, just rough information) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
A bash scripting question
How Can I simplify/perfect the following script, so that I read _ALL_ the
lines in the file and act on the content as shown below, so that I do not
have to specifiy an action per line?
This below is doing exactly what i need BUT reading one line at a time
untill the 10th line, if i want more i add manually...
This might help some1 someday! But if there is a way to perfect it please
do so.
#!/usr/local/bin/bash
smsfile=email_to_sms
`grep Subject /var/spool/mail/sms $smsfile`
if [[ -s $smsfile ]] ; then
cat /dev/null /var/spool/mail/sms
sed -i 's/Subject: //g' $smsfile
echo `sed -n '1p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==1
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '2p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==2
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '3p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==3
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '4p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==4
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '5p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==5
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '6p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==6
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '7p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==7
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '8p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==8
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '9p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==9
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '10p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==10
{print $1}' $smsfile`
else
echo ***Sorry the SMS FILE $smsfile is empty.
fi
gammu-smsd start
cat email_to_sms email_to_sms2
cat /dev/null email_to_sms
--
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with Even if ZFS would be the only filesystem in existence i would make one per 2 disks (single mirror). No matter what's going on, what do you prefer in case say - double disk failure from one mirror on 48 disk systems? losing completely data of 1/24 of users (and then restoring that amount from backups), or losing randomly chosen 1/24 of files from whole system? answer yourself. With UFS of course i would have single disk fsck time - less than a hour. which CAN be done out of work hours with soft updates. i normally turn off automatic fsck for large data filesystems, and if crash happened i run it after/before work hours. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with Even if ZFS would be the only filesystem in existence i would make one per 2 disks (single mirror). No matter what's going on, what do you prefer in case say - double disk failure from one mirror on 48 disk systems? losing completely data of 1/24 of users (and then restoring that amount from backups), or losing randomly chosen 1/24 of files from whole system? answer yourself. Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not mirror 24vs24. I will perform very well but there is too much risk in that. you would rather go with a raidz2 stripe sets. With UFS of course i would have single disk fsck time - less than a hour. which CAN be done out of work hours with soft updates. i normally turn off automatic fsck for large data filesystems, and if crash happened i run it after/before work hours. raid is not a backup. You can loose data with any configuration or fs. so like in the compiler discussion. There is no perfect something in this world. It's always a tradeoff. with ZFS you have access to most advanced techniques and I believe that data is most safe with raidz3 as it can be. UFS cant match that and you have to rely on a raidcontroller which can screw up your data as well. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. What options are there for 2TB file systems with UFS? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
answer yourself. Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not mirror 24vs24. if i wasn't clear enough then i would it like that (with UFS), and assuming disks are named disk0disk48, and that i have at least one more disk for system code, often acessed data etc (SSD would be fine), while these 48 disks store user/whatever data. gmirror label ...options... mirror1 /dev/disk0 /dev/disk1 gmirror label ...options... mirror2 /dev/disk2 /dev/disk3 . . . gmirror label ...options... mirror24 /dev/disk46 /dev/disk47 then newfs etc.. and mounted as 24 filesystems. eg. /home1.../home24 then decide how to spread things properly. this depend of your needs. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. What options are there for 2TB file systems with UFS? the same as for 2TB filesystems. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
One interesting feature of ZFS if it's block checksum: all reads and writes include block checksum, so it can easily detect situations where, for example, data is quietly corrupted by RAM. This feature is very important for databases. On 06/21/2012 15:58, Matthias Gamsjager wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with Even if ZFS would be the only filesystem in existence i would make one per 2 disks (single mirror). No matter what's going on, what do you prefer in case say - double disk failure from one mirror on 48 disk systems? losing completely data of 1/24 of users (and then restoring that amount from backups), or losing randomly chosen 1/24 of files from whole system? answer yourself. Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not mirror 24vs24. I will perform very well but there is too much risk in that. you would rather go with a raidz2 stripe sets. With UFS of course i would have single disk fsck time - less than a hour. which CAN be done out of work hours with soft updates. i normally turn off automatic fsck for large data filesystems, and if crash happened i run it after/before work hours. raid is not a backup. You can loose data with any configuration or fs. so like in the compiler discussion. There is no perfect something in this world. It's always a tradeoff. with ZFS you have access to most advanced techniques and I believe that data is most safe with raidz3 as it can be. UFS cant match that and you have to rely on a raidcontroller which can screw up your data as well. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: answer yourself. Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not mirror 24vs24. if i wasn't clear enough then i would it like that (with UFS), and assuming disks are named disk0disk48, and that i have at least one more disk for system code, often acessed data etc (SSD would be fine), while these 48 disks store user/whatever data. gmirror label ...options... mirror1 /dev/disk0 /dev/disk1 gmirror label ...options... mirror2 /dev/disk2 /dev/disk3 . . . gmirror label ...options... mirror24 /dev/disk46 /dev/disk47 then newfs etc.. and mounted as 24 filesystems. eg. /home1.../home24 then decide how to spread things properly. this depend of your needs. interesting idea but the options ZFS would give you are superior to this setup. But I have still not seen any evidence/facts that ZFS looses more data than UFS. Excluding user error which is 90% the reason data is lost. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 06/21/2012 16:13, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. What options are there for 2TB file systems with UFS? this should not be a problem if you use GPT + gpart (which is the way to go nowadays) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
At 16:13 21/06/2012, you wrote: On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. What options are there for 2TB file systems with UFS? With UFS2 you can use file systems up to 2^73 (8 ZB). The problem is not UFS, but the old tools used to format the disk like fdisk and bsdlabel. For big file systems you must use gpart. The problem with file system recovery times when the worst thing happens(tm) is soluted/mitigated with su+j on FreeBSD9. HTH ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, 2012-06-21 at 07:55 -0500, wel...@excelsusphoto.com wrote: On 21.06.2012 07:39, Dennis Glatting wrote: Stable? Yes. Be sure you have up-to-date FreeBSD kernel and your HBA firmware is up-to-date. Generally I use LSI 9211 cards. Does the 9211 support JBOD (complete plain disks, no RAID or single disk RAID mess)? Typically I simply reburn them with IT firmware however I found under IR that a disk on an unconfigured port is seen by the kernel and usable but I haven't looked at any performance impact and I can't say whether that's a good idea. -- Dennis Glatting d...@pki2.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
One interesting feature of ZFS if it's block checksum: all reads and writes include block checksum, so it can easily detect situations where, for example, data is quietly corrupted by RAM. you may be shocked but you are sometimes wrong. i already demostrated it and checksumming doesn't get any errors, and do write wrong data with right checksums :) it's quite easy to explain if one understand hardware details. Checksumming will protect you from - failed SATA/SAS port, on-disk controller that returns bad data as good. This is actually really rare case. i never seen that, but maybe it happens. - some types of DRAM failure - but not all. Actually just a small fraction because DRAM failure like that would bring your system to crash so quickly that you are unlikely to get big data corruption. Common case with DRAM memory is that after you write to it, keeps right data some time and RARELY flips some bit later in spite of refresh. With this type you may run your machine for hours, even days or longer. And ZFS would calculate proper checksum of wrong data and will write it to disk. This is the reason i keep few failed DIMMs - for testing how different software behaves on broken machine. UFS resulted in few corrupted files after half a day of heavy work and 4 crashes. fsck always recovered things well (of course unexpected softupdate inconsistency) ZFS survived 2 crashes. After third it panicked on startup. Of course - no zfs_fsck. And no possibility of making really good zfs_fsck because of data layout, at least not easy. This feature is very important for databases. is data integrity not important for the rest? :) Still - disks itself perform quite heavy ECC and both SATA and SAS ports. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
interesting idea but the options ZFS would give you are superior to this setup. Were you just unable to understand my setup or a reasons to do this? please reread former post and possibly ask again if you don't understand the reasons. I ignore performance issues completely for now. But I have still not seen any evidence/facts that ZFS looses more data than UFS. And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
With UFS2 you can use file systems up to 2^73 (8 ZB). The problem is not UFS, but the old tools used to format the disk like fdisk and bsdlabel. For big file systems you must use gpart. true. or not using anything at all (and put filesystem directly on whole device/mirror). The problem with file system recovery times when the worst thing happens(tm) is soluted/mitigated with su+j on FreeBSD9. True but i don't believe completely in SU+J. i use it - eg on my private backup disk. but do full fsck sometimes. and usually few, but nonzero amount of errors are corrected. but with just SU it is easy to solve. Disable fsck on boot at all. softupdates allow that risk without problems. then do fsck at time when full or partial system outage can be tolerated - after work hours. This is my solution used everywhere. of course fsck on 100TB filesystem will be too slow. But it is implementation problem, and could be improved. but i would not recommend making single virtual device (gmirror/gstripe or dedicated hardware matrix controller) from too many disks because of the risk. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: interesting idea but the options ZFS would give you are superior to this setup. Were you just unable to understand my setup or a reasons to do this? please reread former post and possibly ask again if you don't understand the reasons. I ignore performance issues completely for now. I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a good solution. I know you think it's the best and only one :) But I have still not seen any evidence/facts that ZFS looses more data than UFS. And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. Really? that's you anwser to my question. The most childish answer I could image. You have a gift to troll and ruine every topic with this kind of answers ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a good so i would repeat my question. Assume you have 48 disks, in mirrored configuration (24 mirrors) and 480 users with their data on them. Your solution with ZFS - ZFS crashes or you get double disk failure. Assuming the latter by average one per 24 file (randomly chosen) is destroyed which - in practice and limited time, means everything destroyed. Actually more than one per 24 - large files can be spread over. Your solution with UFS - better as there is fsck which slowly but successfully repairs problem. with double disk failure - the same! You restore everything from backup (i assume you have one). This takes like a day or more, one or two complete work days lost+all users in practice lost everything since last backup. My solution with UFS - fsck in case of failure work in parallel on 24 disks so not that long. double disk failure means losing data of 1/24 users. every one per 24 user cannot work, others work and i without any stress do recover this 1/24 of users data from backup after putting replacement disks. 1/24 of users lost data since last backup, and some hours of time. Even assuming ZFS is perfect then we both have problems as often, but my problems are 1/24 as severe as yours. Just don't ask me for help when unhappy users will want to cut off your head. And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. Really? that's you anwser to my question. The most childish answer I could stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 21.06.2012 10:15, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a good so i would repeat my question. Assume you have 48 disks, in mirrored configuration (24 mirrors) and 480 users with their data on them. Your solution with ZFS - ZFS crashes or you get double disk failure. Assuming the latter by average one per 24 file (randomly chosen) is destroyed which - in practice and limited time, means everything destroyed. Actually more than one per 24 - large files can be spread over. Your solution with UFS - better as there is fsck which slowly but successfully repairs problem. with double disk failure - the same! You restore everything from backup (i assume you have one). This takes like a day or more, one or two complete work days lost+all users in practice lost everything since last backup. My solution with UFS - fsck in case of failure work in parallel on 24 disks so not that long. double disk failure means losing data of 1/24 users. every one per 24 user cannot work, others work and i without any stress do recover this 1/24 of users data from backup after putting replacement disks. 1/24 of users lost data since last backup, and some hours of time. Even assuming ZFS is perfect then we both have problems as often, but my problems are 1/24 as severe as yours. I think it is incorrect to assume that a failure with ZFS that cannot be recovered could be recovered if you used UFS with fsck. What fsck fixes in other file systems doesn't apply to ZFS by ZFS's design. fsck deals with fixing superblock inconsistancies on non-journaled file systems (like UFS/UFS2), not resurecting corrupted blocks on a disk. http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/6071-No,-ZFS-really-doesnt-need-a-fsck.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFS2 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
I think it is incorrect to assume that a failure with ZFS that cannot be recovered could be recovered if you used UFS with fsck. i think it is incorrect to not read carefully. So explanation - ZFS failure NOT caused by disks failure cannot be usually recovered. But even if i am wrong at this, rest still apply. What fsck fixes in other file systems doesn't apply to ZFS by ZFS's design.fsck deals with fixing superblock inconsistancies on non-journaled file systems (like UFS/UFS2), not resurecting corrupted blocks on a disk. http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/6071-No,-ZFS-really-doesnt-need-a-fsck.html yes i know that article. And it is truly funny for me to know people do think this way. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:42:55 -0500, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: And it is truly funny for me to know people do think this way. If you understood how ZFS commits data to disk you'd not be making these statements. Also, if you take snapshots you can just roll back if there is any weirdness at all. Another important point: With 24 ZFS mirrors you'd have your data being striped across ALL the mirrors. This will yield much better performance. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 21 jun. 2012, at 17:15, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a good so i would repeat my question. Assume you have 48 disks, in mirrored configuration (24 mirrors) and 480 users with their data on them. Your solution with ZFS - ZFS crashes or you get double disk failure. Assuming the latter by average one per 24 file (randomly chosen) is destroyed which - in practice and limited time, means everything destroyed. Actually more than one per 24 - large files can be spread over. Your solution with UFS - better as there is fsck which slowly but successfully repairs problem. with double disk failure - the same! You restore everything from backup (i assume you have one). This takes like a day or more, one or two complete work days lost+all users in practice lost everything since last backup. My solution with UFS - fsck in case of failure work in parallel on 24 disks so not that long. double disk failure means losing data of 1/24 users. every one per 24 user cannot work, others work and i without any stress do recover this 1/24 of users data from backup after putting replacement disks. 1/24 of users lost data since last backup, and some hours of time. Even assuming ZFS is perfect then we both have problems as often, but my problems are 1/24 as severe as yours. Just don't ask me for help when unhappy users will want to cut off your head. And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. Really? that's you anwser to my question. The most childish answer I could stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver them its a stupid question. And about the dram error. I really hope you do use ecc memory in production which renders your scenario invalide. And even then its a claim made by you some random dude on a list. Without proper test scenario and documentation such claims are just useless. And a proper layout zfs will withstand a double disk failure with zero downtime...where younhave to tell your customer they just lost a day work___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
Another important point: With 24 ZFS mirrors you'd have your data being striped across ALL the mirrors. This will yield much better performance. i though already after few mails that you can discuss things normally. But this reply just perfectly proves you didn't read more than maybe my last sentence in spite of nearly a page of explanation written. My advices was now for free. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver them its a stupid question. just a proof it is a waste of time to explain things (FOR FREE) for people like you. You are free to make dangerous setups. People are free to hire you and believe at things what you do. People are free to then pay consequences of the results at unexpected time, as well as 10 times oversized hardware for a need. At least this is still free :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
Wojciech == Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl writes: Wojciech I ignore performance issues completely for now. An ironic line, given your complaints about clang. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 mer...@stonehenge.com URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.posterous.com/ for Smalltalk discussion ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: A bash scripting question
On Jun 21, 2012, at 6:40 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
How Can I simplify/perfect the following script, so that I read _ALL_ the
lines in the file and act on the content as shown below, so that I do not
have to specifiy an action per line?
This below is doing exactly what i need BUT reading one line at a time
untill the 10th line, if i want more i add manually...
This might help some1 someday! But if there is a way to perfect it please
do so.
#!/usr/local/bin/bash
smsfile=email_to_sms
`grep Subject /var/spool/mail/sms $smsfile`
if [[ -s $smsfile ]] ; then
cat /dev/null /var/spool/mail/sms
sed -i 's/Subject: //g' $smsfile
echo `sed -n '1p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==1
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '2p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==2
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '3p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==3
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '4p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==4
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '5p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==5
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '6p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==6
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '7p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==7
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '8p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==8
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '9p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==9
{print $1}' $smsfile`
echo `sed -n '10p' $smsfile` | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT `awk 'NR==10
{print $1}' $smsfile`
else
echo ***Sorry the SMS FILE $smsfile is empty.
fi
gammu-smsd start
cat email_to_sms email_to_sms2
cat /dev/null email_to_sms
Try the following…
#!/bin/sh
smsfile=email_to_sms
spoolfile=/var/spol/mail/sms
grep Subject $spoolfile $smsfile
if [ -s $smsfile ]; then
: $spoolfile
sed -e 's/Subject: //g' $smsfile | awk '
{
if (NR 10) exit
print | /usr/bin/gammu --sendsms TEXT $1
}'
else
echo ***Sorry the SMS FILE $smsfile is empty.
fi
gammu-smsd start
cat $smsfile email_to_sms2
: $smsfile
--
Devin
_
The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential.
If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all
copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and
(iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any
message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons
other than the intended recipient. Thank you.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 21 jun. 2012, at 18:07, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver them its a stupid question. just a proof it is a waste of time to explain things (FOR FREE) for people like you. You are free to make dangerous setups. People are free to hire you and believe at things what you do. People are free to then pay consequences of the results at unexpected time, as well as 10 times oversized hardware for a need. At least this is still free :) True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is quite the probdlem with you. And discussing with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its free. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 2012-06-21 08:12, Евгений Лактанов wrote: 21.06.2012 15:52, Wojciech Puchar пишет: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I see the trend here. That guy is determined to shove his opinion down the throat of everybody. Stop it, tis most annoying. Back to the topic. ZFS support has matured greatly since the last time you tried it, currently freebsd supports zfs pool v. 28 in the last updates. Try it, it won't disappoint you. Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, from his interactions on several topics. ZFS is stable and tested, and works well if you have the resources. That means RAM as well as hard disks - and if you don't have the resources, most of ZFS's advantages wouldn't be coming into play anyway. I have seen no reason to believe at this point (under FreeBSD 9) that it is any less stable than any other filesystem. It is still fairly new relatively, but I and others have used it with no problems, on boxes of various sizes. Getting the best performance may take some tweaking on occasion, but in general it should be very good. (And getting the best performance out of a multi-terabyte drive array will take tweaking no matter what file system you are trying.) My one note to the above would be to advise against using it for swap - unless you have enough RAM to make sure you never swap. It doesn't do well in that role, in my experience. (Though that was under a slightly earlier version.) Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is quite the probdlem with you. And discussing with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its free. so stop it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
his interactions on several topics. ZFS is stable and tested, and works well if you have the resources. That means RAM as well as hard disks - and if you don't have the resources, most of ZFS's advantages wouldn't be coming into play anyway. I have seen no right. repeat it more times, as your clients may read it :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
[...] My one note to the above would be to advise against using it for swap - unless you have enough RAM to make sure you never swap. It doesn't do well in that role, in my experience. (Though that was under a slightly earlier version.) I remember on SXCE running on my test Sun E420r server that ZFS (can't remember if this was in the spec file or not??) would use **any** usable or unpartitioned file system as swap. I maybe totally off-base with this as I was too knew to investigate the issue and was still learning Solaris at the time but all of a sudden a remote mounted external drive would start getting zapped by I/O usage. Of course it couldn't be any user as the only user for those machines was me and I wasn't doing anything on either system. That was quite a weird thing, but happened many years ago so my memory is quite hazy on the specifics of the issue too I do recall running top to see swap usage at a few tens of gigs which was quite funny, of course unmounting the drive dropped the swap back to whatever got allocated by SXCE default. Daniel T. Staal Regards, Kaya ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 6/21/12 1:40 AM, Michel Talon wrote: Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this argument may have a merit for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and maintenance staff and the money to pay for them comes from those commercial users. If FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to continue, it will not continue. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:24:26 +0200, Fred Morcos wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most impressed with it so far. rather huge difference. If you use the right Linusi, you can gain lots of useful knowledge. Basics are important, and older versions of Linux can really teach them. Of course a click'n'grunt environment won't teach you much. Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ is the place I always look first. and third - manuals. They are in sync with system and actually VERY useful. while i was still (long time ago) using linux most common manual was like this manual is outdated. Use texinfo documentation. and texinfo docs was often outdated too. Today it is most probably look at wikipedia ;) Of course i means FreeBSD base system, ports are not part of FreeBSD and quality varies. In modern applications, documentation is often left out (Who ever reads that?!), or it's scattered across web forums, user web pages and wikis. Some ports for FreeBSD have good manpages (e. g. man mplayer, man xmms or even man opera), some don't (try to find manpages for KDE programs, also no man firefox). I have been using GNU/Linux for quite a while and I am most comfortable with Archlinux. That should have provided you with essential basic knowledge that you can apply in FreeBSD without problems. The reason I like it is it's simplicity from the ground up without wasting too much time on unimportant details (unless you want to). You will find that aspect in FreeBSD. Another strong point is that it provides binary packages by default, user-building of packages if you want to, and the same level of customization you can achieve with - say - Gentoo Linux. FreeBSD seems to provide that. FreeBSD offers two methods: Source-based or precompiled. Both of them are build from the ports collection, a kind of means to control dealing with sources and automatically build from them. I learned over the years that (re-)compilation of packages is not something I want to do regularly, but something I would like to do only when I need and want to (ie, to strip out or add a certain compile-time feature from/to a package). A prominent example is mplayer / mencoder to deal with codecs. It's also typically needed to build OpenOffice with non-US language and unusual settings like no integration with KDE or Gnome (if you're not using them). I also learned that the performance gains of tuning compiler flags for a certain CPU are not that drastic for a desktop/laptop/workstation machine workflow and that this category of computing is mostly bound by IO speed (especially with HDDs). It's only needed when you have to get things running on older hardware. Again, mplayer is a good example for where you intendedly would deal with compiling in such a constellation. q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting to ports when really needed? It is. You're basically using pkg_add -r name to install the packages you want. The required dependencies will automatically be installed. What set me off, and got me tired of dealing with Linux-based systems is a set of patterns that have been repeating over for some years now. Generally: 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every Linux kernel release). They don't in FreeBSD. Only tested and verified modifications will be committed to the non-experimental branches (the security branch of -RELEASE, and the -STABLE branch). If you're following the experimental development branch -HEAD, it _might_ happen that the system doesn't even compile, but updated 30 minutes after that accident, it runs fine again. :-) 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with v4l, gstreamer and cheese. FreeBSD - unlike Linux! - has a differentiation between the OS (FreeBSD itself, the operating system) and 3rd party applications (everything else, the ports collection). Even if you mess up all your ports, you _never_ will end up with a defective OS. So even in such a worst case, you can still access system means for diagnostics and repair. 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. The concept of FreeBSD includes to have several system-level deamons available, but only few of them are running by default. You have to enable them if you feel you need them. This is done in centralized (!) system configuration files. The most important one is /etc/rc.conf. Did I already mention
FreeBSD 8.2 Add second hard drive multi-boot
Good morning, FreeBSD enthusiasts. On my Hewlett-Packard xw4400 workstation, I had one hard drive. I partitioned it with two slices, the first one for FreeBSD 8.2 with its native file system, and the second one for a future re-installation of Windows XP, to be formatted with NTFS file system. FreeBSD 8.2 was then installed. The Windows XP re-installation has not yet taken place. Recently, I installed a second hard drive on the machine that was already formatted with two slices, both NTFS. Already installed on the first of these slices is the Windows XP operating system with a special application program. Already installed on the second slice is data. It is my understanding that the FreeBSD loader is supposed to be able to load any operating system. Upon power-up, the FreeBSD loader presents the following screen: F1 Win F2 FreeBSD F5 Drive 1 F6 PXE If I depress F1, I receive the response BOOTMGR is missing. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart. If I depress F2, FreeBSD loads normally. If I depress F5, I receive the response Missing operatin system. How can I get the FreeBSD loader to load the Windows XP operating system from the second hard drive? The G.P.T. disklabel is not used by either of these operating systems, so I do not believe that that is the problem. Although the FreeBSD operating system seems to see the second hard drive, it does not mount it upon startup. It does not appear in the fstab file. I attempted to mount it manually using the mount command, without success, just to see if any of the data files could be read. I ran fsidk -B on the zeroeth sector of the second hard drive, but that did not seem to help. I know that this type of issue comes up repeatedly in the mailing lists, some of which I have read, but I am flummoxed. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. Your truly, Lee Shackelfo r! d ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
ZFS is superior to UFS. End of the history. There is no point in use old technology (UFS) when the new one can make the same as the older and better ? Regards, El 21/06/12 11:31, Matthias Gamsjager escribió: On 21 jun. 2012, at 18:07, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.plmailto:woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver them its a stupid question. just a proof it is a waste of time to explain things (FOR FREE) for people like you. You are free to make dangerous setups. People are free to hire you and believe at things what you do. People are free to then pay consequences of the results at unexpected time, as well as 10 times oversized hardware for a need. At least this is still free :) True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is quite the probdlem with you. And discussing with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its free. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.orgmailto:freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.orgmailto:freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- MARCO ANTONIO MUSKUS MUSKUS NOC - Aplicaciones ISP EDATEL S.A. E.S.P. Calle 41 # 52 - 28 Piso 2 Medellín, Antioquia - Colombia Teléfono: (574) 384 6507 Fax: (574) 3846500 www.edatel.net.cohttp://www.edatel.net.co mamus...@edatel.com.comailto:mamus...@edatel.com.co Este mensaje y/o sus anexos son para uso exclusivo de su destinatario intencional y puede contener información legalmente protegida por ser confidencial. Si usted no es el destinatario intencional del mensaje por favor infórmenos de inmediato y elimínelo, así como sus anexos. Igualmente, le comunicamos que cualquier retención, revisión no autorizada, distribución, divulgación, reenvío, copia, impresión, reproducción, o uso indebido de este mensaje y/o sus anexos, está estrictamente prohibida y sancionada legalmente. EDATEL S.A. no se hace responsable en ningún caso por daños derivados de la recepción del presente mensaje. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this argument may have a merit for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and maintenance staff and the money to pay for them comes from those commercial users. If FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to continue, it will not continue. but why it isn't clearly stated: We put clang because sponsors wanted it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
NIC problem
I have an Intel Wifi Link 1000 BGN NIC that I'm having trouble getting to work. I have FreeBSD 8.3 installed. I looked in the NOTES file under /usr/src/sys/conf for the driver and did not see it listed. It is PCI. I have tried to configure the settings via the sysinstall command post configuration. I read about Project Evil and other options. I wanted to see if someone could help me out... thanks ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 6/21/12 9:47 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is quite the probdlem with you. And discussing with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its free. so stop it. This mailing list isn't your blog. If you want to hear your own voice, go lock yourself in a room. We'll all be happier. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 6/21/12 10:08 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this argument may have a merit for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and maintenance staff and the money to pay for them comes from those commercial users. If FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to continue, it will not continue. but why it isn't clearly stated: We put clang because sponsors wanted it. Sponsors didn't want clang. Sponsors wanted not to be encumbered by a GPLv3 license. If there was a shmoodlepoodle compiler instead of clang that met this requirement instead and was at least as performant and stable, it would likely have been selected. If you don't like clang as an option, go away and come back when you've built a better compiler and offered it under an acceptable license. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
the experimental development branch -HEAD, it _might_ happen that the system doesn't even compile, but updated 30 minutes after that accident, it runs fine again. :-) And finally unless doing tests or using private not-really-important computer, don't just install newest FreeBSD because it's out. I - and lot of others - still use 8.* for production while 9.* is out already for some time. Anyway i think that bleeding edge -HEAD release is still more stable than stable linux kernel. q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is fast enough for a laptop? I think so. For a laptop, you _might_ consider adding encryption. Just in case. You never know. for a server - you MUST do this :) q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? There are several parameters that you can tweak (see man tunefs), I would suggest a single partition spanning the whole SSD, and journaling would not be contraproductive. s/would not/would/ i assume this as mistake. do not journal on SSD. it increases amount of writes, and fsck is quick anyway. do not forget of -t option with newfs (TRIM enable) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
ZFS is superior to UFS. End of the history. There is no point in use old technology (UFS) when the new one can make the same as the older and better ? anyway there must be morons here like me that after observation conclude that older is far safer and better. But if you want end of history then fine. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
We put clang because sponsors wanted it. Sponsors didn't want clang. Sponsors wanted not to be encumbered by a GPLv3 they are not. programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 6/21/12 10:16 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: We put clang because sponsors wanted it. Sponsors didn't want clang. Sponsors wanted not to be encumbered by a GPLv3 they are not. programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. Programs that link to GPLv3 libraries are encumbered. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 06/21/2012 10:08, Wojciech Puchar wrote: You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and maintenance staff and the money to pay for them comes from those commercial users. If FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to continue, it will not continue. but why it isn't clearly stated: We put clang because sponsors wanted it. Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC will still be in the ports tree for those of you who prefer to run it. Your questions have been answered repeatedly, ad nauseam, but apparently you don't like and won't accept the answers so you ask the questions again and again. You don't like Clang. You prefer GCC. We get it. -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) da...@vicor.com david.robi...@fisglobal.com _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On 06/21/2012 00:33, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: Dear community In the past, I built a 8TB ZFS log server on freebsd 7.4. However, the system experienced instablility after long up times. My main motive to use ZFS was UFS inability to support large file systems. Now, I want to the same thing on 8.3 and wanted to know your opinion on ZFS stability. Is there any success story using ZFS in 24x7, large volume, heavy duty servers? Is there any other option other than ZFS to build larger than 2TB file systems? We use ZFS for critical data and are quite happy with it. I've been using it in production since 8.1-R and have yet to have a problem. Make sure you do your zpool scrubs regularly. I use a cron job. We are currently migrating our customer RAID arrays to ZFS to ameliorate the multi-hour FSCK situations. -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) da...@vicor.com david.robi...@fisglobal.com _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, Here too, http://berklix.com/~jhs/dots/.procmailrc.lists Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with . Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:16:31 -0500, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. This has not been decided in court yet. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
they are not. programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. Programs that link to GPLv3 libraries are encumbered. you mean libgcc_s.so.1 and libstdc++? scanned /bin and /usr/bin and few programs do link it - all are C++ written. None IMHO are needed in closed-source system really, anyway (i don't have clang installed now) what clang compiled C++ programs use as libstdc++ ? do clang provide it? cannot you just use this (or other) nonGPL library? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC Because most that are not already stopped and ignored thing. and use GCC. Politics won. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
Hi, On Thursday 21 June 2012 23:55:38 Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:24:26 +0200, Fred Morcos wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar q) Is it possible to get native resolution on the console? I played with vesa and vidcontrol but could never get what I wanted. Native resolution would require KMS? As far as I know, KMS (kernel mode settings) is specific to Linux. past tense, please. FreeBSD has several VESA modes bigger than 80x25. But I have to admit that I don't see a problem in using this default mode during initialization time. Later on, xterms (also those containing SSH and screen sessions) can be configured any size under X. Not really. I never found out why PCBSD could use my 1366x768 screen under VESA but FreeBSD couldn't. The new KMS does it all. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
z woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. This has not been decided in court yet. sources please! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, Here too, http://berklix.com/~jhs/dots/.procmailrc.lists very good. just block me, instead of performing aggresive replies and personal attacks. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:30:40 -0500, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: z woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. This has not been decided in court yet. sources please! Google GPLv3 court case. There are no applicable results. Until a Judge decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. As you've already been told it's not English it's Law ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
sources please! Google GPLv3 court case. There are no applicable results. Until a Judge decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. true. But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official letter to GNU Free Software Foundation asking for just that case? Nothing to loose, lots to gain. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:36:03 -0500, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official letter to GNU Free Software Foundation asking for just that case? There needs to be a lawsuit and lawyers and judges need to be involved. You can't just ask the FSF to explain themselves. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 06/21/2012 10:30, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC Because most that are not already stopped and ignored thing. and use GCC. Politics won. Excellent. We have a winner. Now you can stop commenting. -- Dave Robison Sales Solution Architect II FIS Banking Solutions 510/621-2089 (w) 530/518-5194 (c) 510/621-2020 (f) da...@vicor.com david.robi...@fisglobal.com _ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 6/21/12 10:36 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: sources please! Google GPLv3 court case. There are no applicable results. Until a Judge decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. true. But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official letter to GNU Free Software Foundation asking for just that case? Because what FSF says is irrelevant. What courts decide is all that counts. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Mark Felder schreef op 21-06-2012 19:28: On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:16:31 -0500, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. This has not been decided in court yet. Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL executables is limited to what hey call eligible compilation processes, what rules out using proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with non-GPL tooling and extensions. Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may turn out even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be it depends. :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
21.06.2012 21:32, Wojciech Puchar пишет: Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, Here too, http://berklix.com/~jhs/dots/.procmailrc.lists very good. just block me, instead of performing aggresive replies and personal attacks. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Only after you, my man, only after you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Only after you, my man, only after you. not yours. i'm not homosexual ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL executables is limited to what hey call eligible compilation processes, what rules out using proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with non-GPL tooling and extensions. Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may turn out even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be it depends. :) GNU GPL is even worse that i ever dreamed (in worst horror). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Stas Verberkt lego...@legolasweb.nl wrote: Mark Felder schreef op 21-06-2012 19:28: On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:16:31 -0500, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. This has not been decided in court yet. Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL executables is limited to what hey call eligible compilation processes, what rules out using proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with non-GPL tooling and extensions. Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may turn out even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be it depends. :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org So, has anyone compared the performance of clang vs gcc compiled in daily use-- for example as a server? Anyone can cherry pick a couple of binaries, but how important is this for the performance of FreeBSD world? -- joe gain jacob-burckhardt-str. 16 78464 konstanz germany +49 (0)7531 60389 (...otherwise in ???) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
So, has anyone compared the performance of clang vs gcc compiled in daily use-- for example as a server? Anyone can cherry pick a couple of binaries, but how important is this for the performance of FreeBSD world? not big, as with almost any compiler. Most workload are dominated by cache misses and jump misprediction. That's why my gzip comparision resulted in minimally worse clang-compiled one (1% or less), while f2c converted fortran code for scientific calculations showed large differences. i expect large difference in eg. cjpeg, lame etc and rather small in for eg. perl ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Jun 21, 2012 11:23 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL executables is limited to what hey call eligible compilation processes, what rules out using proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with non-GPL tooling and extensions. Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may turn out even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be it depends. :) GNU GPL is even worse that i ever dreamed (in worst horror). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I have seen a few instances which are risky IMHO... or at least interesting to ponder.. one is a claim that GPLv3 enables the vendor to require the use of their trademark logo (flowplayer)... which opens up other legal issues i think, and another, i recently purchased a router, in the package was a small piece of paper stating the device includes GPL software, and if i want the source i need to write (snail mail) their legal department and explain why i want it. (d-link). but i agree the issues have not been legally decided AFAIK. anyway, i think a BSD licensed FreeBSD operating system works for me. Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 6/21/12 10:30 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: z woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. This has not been decided in court yet. sources please! Logical fallacy -- looking for a non-existence proof. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
