Re: Why Clang
I am not sure, as long as clients would be treated seriously! I look at large corporate software vendors and see them treating customers seriously maybe 2% of the time at best. In this case, most of I assumed FreeBSD team are OK and would fit in this 2% or even those 0.2% am i wrong? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Maybe take a look at lftp, at the mirror option. For basic demands its a compact solution. try doing backup of things with 1 dirs and million files and certainly you will understand you need rsync. ftp protocol is plain bad for that. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
I meant, is it now possible to have 2TB FS with UFS? UFS2 is here since IMHO year 2005. Now the only problem is fsck time. actually IMHO fsck can be improved a lot but someone must have time and will to do this. if parallelism would be exploited on gstripe type(*) volumes then it should take less than 30 minutes no matter how large the volume is. Anyway - even with UFS which is the most fault-resilent filesystem i know - i would not recommend creating gstripe type volumes taking too many disks for the reason i already explained. For now softupdates+journal is fine, you actually have to do full fsck now and then, but at spare time. *) gstripe type means gstripe, gstripe+gmirror, graid5, graid5+gstripe, hardware matrix controller with any type of RAID configuration. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do
and hardware in the lab on last week. I reformatted the USB drive with extFAT and standard block size on Windows 7. The USB drive is now seen again on FreeBSD and recognized as this points that the pendrive's controller is not just flaky but horrid. The communiation with OS, and how/whether it is configured properly should not depend on what data is written to it - in your case exFAT metadata. It seems that controller manufacturer just did something to run on windows and linux instead of something that conform to USB mass storage interface standard :( Sorry but it may be hopeless case. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Hmm, I'm not sure that there is _anything_ that meets _all_ your criteria! rsync meets. It can be a little harder with windoze, with any unix-like OS it will work. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do
What if a USB mass storage device works with some BSDs but not all? well the only thing i never experiences with USB pendrives is a one that works everytime properly. Everything else is possible. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
However, fsck'ing such large volumes will take considerable time if such a thing needs doing. There is the new Soft-update plus Journaling coming along with the advent of 9.x, which is supposed to ameliorate this. Not it is far from perfect. But fine to use it. Just DO full fsck every some time. Fortunately it would be planned outage instead of unplanned. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
lftp does work incremental. Take a look at Chad's posting again and read what he needs. And of course, ftp via ssh is nothing new ... still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
still - any ftp client will no go faster than ftp protocol allows. That's sure. But I think it's an option for the laptops what Chad only if $HOME directly or part of it is copied and nothing more ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
a) activate PXE/WOL on bios b) start the laptop via PXE using a freebsd/linux/whatever_os_you_want_to_use c) use dd piped to rsync to make the backups not really efficient but working. ntfsprogs from ports can be helpful. you may use ntfsmount and access NTFS files directly. if backup is done over fast LAN, ntfsclone -s is useful ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do
ports. Same as in my case. USB is more a lottery than real computing for me. but this is not USB standard fault, but USB device manufacturers that cannot really read standard specifications. It works (under windoze, under linux) is enough. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do
daily basis, Luckily, very few of them involve FreeBSD, which is why I do not exhibit such a negative attitude, except of course when I do attempt to plug one in a FreeBSD machine with negative results. I do not know what is more pathetic; the fact that so many devices fail to operate correctly -- if at all --, or the willingness of the FreeBSD community to accept it as the norm. usb_quirks.c is already quite large as you may see... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
what exactly deficiences and requirements not met by rsync are you talking about? simplifications of rsync's ability to exclude files or directories, elegant handling of backups' expirations) are sufficient to make it a worthy alternative to naked rsync. The frontend is written in Perl and easily extended. By heterogeneous networks I'm afraid I mean ones composed of machines running unix-like OSs; I've no idea if there's an rsync port to Windows. there are many. I know people using it ... after they know how useful it is based on my examples. No idea how stable and usable they are. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
PXE booting gives a lot of possibilities. I use it to boot Clonezilla to back up Windows systems. That is better than dd, since only used disk blocks ntfsclone is what you need. for sure simpler. For FreeBSD and other open operating systems, sysutils/rsnapshot is a what is exactly rsnapshot added value to rsync, and what is exactly this fuss about hardlinks? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: changing md5 hashed for sha
For setting the dafault hash used to hash /etc/master.passwd, it has been recommended changing md5 for something more secure in the sense of being more expensive to crack. is md5 that easy to crack? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do
windoze, under linux) is enough. If the ROI does not exceed the expenditure to meet a specification that only applies to a niche segment of the potential market, then it is in all probability not going to happen. Right. Fine. There is not written on them conforms to USB Mass Storage standard ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
you mean wake on lan? there is wol tool in ports. proper. I meant, too, that dirvish, which was the alternative that I recommended, presents an elegant and easily-comprehended way to manage rsync's considerable abilities, not that it provides features that can't be managed directly by rsync. fine but i really want to manage features directly by specifying a commands. thanks for answer, but i really don't recommend anyone using all in one tools as it's always to have problems with one than with all. there are many. I know people using it ... after they know how useful it is based on my examples. No idea how stable and usable they are. Thanks for pointing out that there are Windows ports of rsync, and that you provide examples of their use. I'm not sure I would entrust my system backups to them if they come with the disclaimer that you've no idea how stable and usable they are. google rsync for windows. It is not a danger if you run this no really sure tools from windoze and you see whether it finished work properly or not. syncback works fine and is used by me. but it is not high performance, it can use only FTP or windows share destination. for backing up my documents it is fine anyway. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Thanks for pointing out that there are Windows ports of rsync, and that you provide examples of their use. I'm not sure I would entrust my system backups to them if they come with the disclaimer that you've no idea how stable and usable they are. http://justinsomnia.org/2007/02/how-to-regularly-backup-windows-xp-to-ubuntu-using-rsync/ might be useful for you, after you ignore all this linux style sudo nonsense. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: changing md5 hashed for sha
been recommended changing md5 for something more secure in the sense of being more expensive to crack. is md5 that easy to crack? It has been discussed recently, cf http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security/2012-June/006271.html or virtually the first half of http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security/2012-June/thread.html wasn't aware md5 is really risky. thanks. anyway - as long as someone don't actually get /etc/master.passwd it doesn't matter, it could be even plaintext here. If someone can get /etc/master.passwd then he/she most probably already got root priviledge :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: backup tools
Actually, a Wake-On-LAN feature is not at all necessary for me in this case. It's a simple enough task to just trigger a backup manually at the command line via a script that automates the process. still. a separate wol tool is available in ports. You may easily construct shell script that will execute it, wait a bit, check out if server booted with ping, then wait a bit more (so inetd or rsyncd started) then run rsync. Unix philosophy means have one program to do think well, not to do everything. This is what make me an exclusive unix fanatics. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
This is a valid argument. Checksumming is used to detect cases where the disk or the disk controller return invalid data to the CPU. This can happen for any number of reasons and isn't that unlikely. Unrecoverable read error probabilities are high enough with common drives that you can reasonably see them after reading 10-20TB over the course of some small number of years. And that's assuming no firmware bugs, no flakey cables, and no other of a variety of potential issues. this needs scrubbing. Can be done both with ZFS and anything else. just use dd periodically. I use ZFS. I like ZFS. But I also acknowledge that a zfs_fsck would be useful in cases where a filesystem is botched enough that it can't be but seems you don't have any serious use for ZFS if you can take that risk just because you like ZFS. I cannot. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
OK, if you have 24 2-way mirrors and two drives in the same mirror fail then with UFS you lose the contents of that mirror. Other filesystems in the same box are fine. Restores from backups are going to be easy since the backups are probably arranged to be per-filesystem. true. i actually don't have 48-disk machine but do have 9 disks (one SSD+8 2TB SATA). So far I think we're in agreement. Still as i said - even with ZFS i would make 24 pools, not one. this thing is not filesystem dependent. But this doesn't address two issues: 1) There are other arrangements of ZFS that can tolerate more failed disks if you are willing to spend more money. ZFS supports n-way mirrors, so you can have mirrors with three or four disks if you as well as gmirror. a raidz2 set (with multiple raidz2 sets per pool). i will not use raidz1/2/3 because if catastrophically low performance. the design of ZFS makes sure you'll get read performance of single drive from whole pool. Disks are already performance limiting part of computer. 2) That this failure can happen doesn't address the question of the production-ready status of ZFS. The question of production ready is not a boolean. It is a question of What i meant from beginning is not that ZFS is not yet production ready but it will never be because of design decisions. It have cool features, giving danger, huge hardware usage (RAM,CPU) and low I/O performance. risks and of money used to mitigate those risks. I suggest asking the question on the zfs-discuss list over at opensolaris.org since there are probably many more people there who make serious use of ZFS daily. I will not. Serious people should know how ZFS work. if they still want to use it seriuosly then i cannot help any more. gs1p 159G 73.1G 39 12 2.34M 70.7K mirror 159G 73.1G 39 12 2.34M 70.7K gpt/CONST_2-9XE02KPK-zfs - - 19 5 1.94M 69.4K gpt/SAVVIO-6XQ10F80-zfs - - 21 5 1.93M 79.5K gpt/SAVVIO-6XQ103C7-zfs - - 21 5 1.93M 79.5K 100GB+ of FreeBSD being served up (IP 206.196.19.100 if you care to check FreeBSD's stats pages). And the torrents can be easily replaced if something really bad happens. 3 very expensive drives. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
I would see a problem with that -- not because I don't think FreeBSD is worth it. I do, and I think it is worth more than that, in fact. The true. biggest problem with what you propose, though, is that it would destroy the social factors in development of the FreeBSD system that make it what it is, and thus destroy FreeBSD itself, as far as I am concerned. I am not sure, as long as clients would be treated seriously! I would have thought that even you should be able to understand that without help. another personal attack? I though i talk with adults. For paying this i would like FreeBSD to be maintained with quality and performance being the only reason, not politics. Turning it into a commercial enterprise rather than an open source project would probably turn it into a project that is driven about 60% by corporate politics and 40% by marketing BS, with no room left over for quality except as needed to support the minimum credibility its CEO deems necessary to support those two concerns. It depends solely on development team. For now - as we see - it's decision are driven by money. But not all users money but few selected large users. must be stopped. You seem to think this is all about Juniper. I wonder where you get that Not JUST juniper. It is only i hate GNU type decision. No, it's not only that. It's *also* that, and with good reason. Good I hate too, and in spite of this am against removing gcc and replacing it with much worse product. Worse based on a couple of very narrowly applicable metrics derived There will be IMHO soon good compiler available. it's highly probable that pcc would improve a lot, for now it is small, quick but doesn't produce good code for new CPUs. But it probably will improve. CLANG is already great bloat, and will be worse. No amount of money will fix it, actually too much money will hurt. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB system: FreeBSD 9-STABLE and 10-CURRENT do not recognize 64GB USB drive while Linux and Windows do
incapable of handling the 64GB drive. I do not have issues with USB it's not about capacity. But seems some quirks for that pendrive (which have buggy firmware) has to be added, as it doesn't respond for inquiry command. sorry i am not USB expert. umass1: Lexar USB Flash Drive, class 0/0, rev 2.00/11.00, addr 6 on usbus7 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): INQUIRY. CDB: 12 0 0 0 24 0 (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB request completed with an error (probe0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Error 5, Retries exhausted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
underway to make sure the base system will compile cleanly with both Clang and GCC 4.2+, so I think you're just making up complaints here. Someone (other than Wojciech Puchar, who would just be talking out of his once again personal attacks from unhappy childs. ass) correct me if I'm mistaken. reported by gcc46 warning Approved by:cperciva (implicit) So at least there are some people working on polishing CURRENT/STABLE up to the point it will build with gcc46. sounds good. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Because it doesn't address an of the *OTHER* valid reasons why GCC is being replaced -- among them: 1) GCC's continuously increasing propensity to generate bad code, examples? All test shows that gcc code is not only bad, but very good. Why are you just saying things you know isn't true? 2) The inability of GCC mamintainers to fix _long-standing_ bugs, some have been identified for over a decade, and have not been fixed. That's true. still not that much. 3) The continuously increasing trend of introducing 'non standard' features, No need to use them. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called?
I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) add -- to your language list so first 2 would disappear and third will become C. I *don't* want closed-source kit robots where the point is to build the robot the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If Why do you want something like microcontroller to run any OS? What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? running unix on microcontroller-style hardware is what i call nonsense. Writing your program that runs from first executed instruction is what i call normal programming of such devices. The proper way is to 1) buy a microcontrooler chip, make your hardware using it, possibly buy already made boards. microcontrollers are 1$, some more capable 32-bit ones (ARM compatible usually, some are MIPS) for 2-3$. 2) throw away all included libraries because they are mostly mess. prepare something that can be used as crt0.s Better write it yourself in assembly. shouldn't be larger than 5 instructions anyway, a bit more if ARM interrupt vectors are needed to be filled. Some assembly knowledge is very useful, in spite of writing most in C. 3) read documentation. All embedded devices (like A/D converters, PWM generators etc.) are described. With 32-bit micros start from memory MAP chapter and then device description. You will just find out at what address your peripheral is accessible. 4) lets say for example that 32 GPIO pins are accessible at address 0x40001000 for setting ports, 0x40002000 for resetting ports, 0x40003000 for reading out value, and 0x40004000 for setting direction (input/output). #define GPIO0_SET ((int*)0x40001000) #define GPIO0_RESET ((int*)0x40002000) #define GPIO0_READ ((int*)0x40003000) #define GPIO0_DIR ((int*)0x40004000) 5) use it in your program. *GPIO0_DIR=0x; //sets all pins to output *GPIO0_SET=0x; //sets every other pin to 1 *GPIO0_RESET=0x; //set the rest to 0 if you have questions send it privately. microcontrollers are wrong place for unix system and it's overcomplexity relatively to the task. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: No sound in Flash
if you really need flash, you may install gnash from ports. not fully capable but usually works, and doesn't need linux emulator and closed source code. Thanks for the advice about gnash! I've installed it, and removed nspluginwrapper and all the linux stuff. It seems to work perfectly for my purposes. not really perfect but anyway i don't feel i lost something seeing a site that cannot work without flash. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. If FreeBSD appears as a subsidiary of some commercial company (say Juniper) i am not sure this will be good I think any project that size is actually a subsidiary and must be. I just don't like that it isn't stated openly! It is nothing wrong, unless one can feed using zero point energy, everyone needs money to stay alive. Wouldn't it be smarter to openly say Juniper request as to get rid o GPL as soon as we can because they are fed up with this shit and law mess. instead of personal attacks, messing with my (and others) sentences and posting evident lies just to explain the decision. It is a difference between honest people and fools. i already proposed (but not publically) to turn FreeBSD into commercial system. REALLY i would not see a problem to pay say 100$ per server licence. There is nothing to prevent giving source with system. Non-Free software doesn't have to be binary only. For paying this i would like FreeBSD to be maintained with quality and performance being the only reason, not politics. Every trendy or otherwise requested feature could be added separately or even charged separately, as long as it doesn't have any effects on base system. ZFS being example. Nothing against Juniper (the make truly good working hardware), but if they enforce decision because of their personal likes then it must be stopped. GPLv3 based C compiler does not prevent making closed source software like JunOS for example. It is only i hate GNU type decision. I hate too, and in spite of this am against removing gcc and replacing it with much worse product. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. My experience with NetBSD suggests you may be right there, but Linux? After commercial support got too much about directing decisions, NetBSD got very quickly useless. I'll have to build a new Linux installation and see for myself! Warning: You may not go through it healthy. I'm still inclined to say FreeBSD 9.0 is an improvement over 8.2; I never got to 8.3. There are some new functionality. rctl may be very very very useful. But as for speed - i don't see it to be better, and at high disk I/O load it seems to get somehow longer stalls but it is subjective, no precise test done. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: List flames (was Re: Why Clang)
Because of FreeBSD lists being mainly unmoderated and open to posting without subscription, I notice some outright spams that slip through the list filters. I believe (could possibly be wrong) that the lists have spam filters in place. it must have and well done. FreeBSD list is for sure more known to spammer than me, while i would get ca 2000 spams per day after turning off my antispam system. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
wrong way to go. I can ask him for these and other reasons at your request. Yes, that would be a good idea, not so much for me as for others who want to better understand the licensing issues of GCC compared to Clang. i would like to hear this. but only in C compiler context. i understand the other issues, but IMHO there are none about using GPLv3 licenced compiler to compile non-opensource programs. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I will go with a single thread. I will also try to keep it as short as possible. Please note that it is not my intention to start a flame-war against anyone or any project. I am stating my experiences, the goals i - in reply - just told you my experiences with linux which was actually my first unix-like OS. I learned over the years that (re-)compilation of packages is not something I want to do regularly, but something I would like to do only when I need and want to (ie, to strip out or add a certain compile-time feature from/to a package). I also learned that the performance gains of tuning compiler flags for a certain CPU are not that drastic for a desktop/laptop/workstation machine workflow and that this category of computing is mostly bound by IO speed (especially with HDDs). true. anyway if you want anything else that default compile options you have to rebuild. q) Is it possible to run a FreeBSD system without much building? In you may use all binary packages. You may even do pkg_add ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/.../packagename.tbz and it works, and will fetch dependencies too if needed. you may use source builds, or mix of both. you just do portsnap fetch portsnap update to get ports tree up to date. other words, can I survive by depending on packages and only resorting to ports when really needed? it depends on ports. Some are easy to deal with some are not. 1. Too often, core system components break (especially with every Linux kernel release). 1. Yesterday I spent 30 minutes until my webcam worked, dealing with v4l, gstreamer and cheese. 2. The USB3 port in my laptop used to work as USB2 (never as USB3), not anymore, it's now completely useless and doesn't react to anything. This programs are not part of FreeBSD, just as they are not part of linux (linux is kernel). webcamd, gstreamer etc.. are still the same programs no matter if you compile then under linux and freebsd. as for point 2 it would probably be better with FreeBSD :) 2. Sudden drastic changes that are deviating from simplicity. In that respect FreeBSD is 100 times better. But still - PORTS are not FreeBSD. There are tens of thousands of them. Most are the same programs that run on linux, just packaging differ. And nobody can be sure something will not get f...d up. 1. The sudden flood of daemons that are designed to do everything for me, without giving me much say in the matter. My computer is supposed to help me, not decide for me or replace me. FreeBSD starts only inetd and cron by default. As for me it is already too much in /etc/crontab :) 2. Those daemons are hard to get rid of and are tightly integrated into higher-level components in the stack (ie, into the desktop environment). No such a problem under FreeBSD. But when compiling xorg-server from ports i recommend turning off SUID and HAL options. 3. Those daemons are increasingly hard and obscure to configure (ie, huge XML files, complex hierarchies, etc). FreeBSD base system is not like that. But still - if you use the same thing that in linux it would be the same. Anyway human have brain and can use it. So prepare your environment that would fit your needs and nothing else. 3. Due to having to run and interact with each other all the time, those daemons are sucking the life out of my laptop battery (according to powertop). No such problem on my laptop. It runs 1.5 hours longer than official specs. enable powerd in /etc/rc.conf - powerd is a part of base system, not addon. Works great. 4. Probably other frustrations that I have forgotten about. You should not forgot them so you will not ever want to go back to linux. 5. I think many of the developers of those components are trying to reach a Mac-like experience? I am not against that in any way, but it needs to be working well. I don't really know what linux community want to achieve. For my observation they wanted to compete with microsoft windows. And they exceeded the target - it's even more messy and uncontrollable. Those are dbus, hal, udev, udisks, upower, pulseaudio, systemd, consolekit and policykit. You do not need any of them under FreeBSD. It is useful to have dbus daemon running for whole machine in many use cases but not really needed. I am aware that those solutions are there to solve complex problems which was first created. I have two laptops (Asus N73JQ, Asus U36S) which I use as work machines. Power efficiency is very important, efficient disk access too. Suspend to ram and hiberation would be nice to have but are not utterly important. q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is fast enough for a laptop? If you have
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
For my various OpenSource projects, I have deployed a 36TB file system which is fine and stable running 24/7. Additionally at home I use 4TB (2x 2TB) + 8TB (2x 4TB) on a machine with 4GB RAM this has been up for 3 years with minimum reboot! Good. There are some companies that make for living recovering data from unbreakable ZFS :) You may be just lucky. or they will make some money. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. The correct answer would be. I depends on the work load For different kinds of production workload it doesn't, aat least for me. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
+---+ |Stripe | +---+---+ |Mirror1|Mirror2| +---+---+---+---+ | Disk1 | Disk2 | Disk3 | Disk4 | +---+---+---+---+ true. but there are mirror/stripe layout that is quite better in performance than yours where writes are not dominant ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
Maybe a hint. I leave always one big release out. With other words. If you start now with 9, you do not have to move to 10 but you can stick with 9 until 11 comes out. You do not even have to upgrade at the spot. my as i do - i for now run FreeBSD 8, and will run 9 when it will be needed with new hardware (drivers) or it will have clearly noticable adventages of speed and/or functionality. I think you see here Linux as a distribution. Things like this are avoided with FreeBSD itself but not wit the ports. The ports have nothing much to do with FreeBSD except that they work on FreeBSD. repeating once again. FreeBSD base system is one complete and consistent thing. ports are another. If one run program X under linux, it will be the same program X under FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
System 1: 32 cores, Interlagos, 64GB, 18TB RAIDz1 System 2: 64 cores, Interlagos, 128GB, 15TB RAIDz1 System 3: 8 cores, Bulldozer, 16GB, 27TB RAIDz2 what these systems do? (no details, just rough information) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
I really want to see your face when you fsck 48TB w/o ffs+j (since that is so young must be immature :S ) of data with the phone ring non stop with Even if ZFS would be the only filesystem in existence i would make one per 2 disks (single mirror). No matter what's going on, what do you prefer in case say - double disk failure from one mirror on 48 disk systems? losing completely data of 1/24 of users (and then restoring that amount from backups), or losing randomly chosen 1/24 of files from whole system? answer yourself. With UFS of course i would have single disk fsck time - less than a hour. which CAN be done out of work hours with soft updates. i normally turn off automatic fsck for large data filesystems, and if crash happened i run it after/before work hours. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
answer yourself. Sorry but I don;t follow you right there. with 48 disks you would not mirror 24vs24. if i wasn't clear enough then i would it like that (with UFS), and assuming disks are named disk0disk48, and that i have at least one more disk for system code, often acessed data etc (SSD would be fine), while these 48 disks store user/whatever data. gmirror label ...options... mirror1 /dev/disk0 /dev/disk1 gmirror label ...options... mirror2 /dev/disk2 /dev/disk3 . . . gmirror label ...options... mirror24 /dev/disk46 /dev/disk47 then newfs etc.. and mounted as 24 filesystems. eg. /home1.../home24 then decide how to spread things properly. this depend of your needs. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Hooman Fazaeli wrote: On 6/21/2012 4:22 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: stick with UFS. It JUST WORKS(R), and is trusty. And it works fast. What options are there for 2TB file systems with UFS? the same as for 2TB filesystems. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
One interesting feature of ZFS if it's block checksum: all reads and writes include block checksum, so it can easily detect situations where, for example, data is quietly corrupted by RAM. you may be shocked but you are sometimes wrong. i already demostrated it and checksumming doesn't get any errors, and do write wrong data with right checksums :) it's quite easy to explain if one understand hardware details. Checksumming will protect you from - failed SATA/SAS port, on-disk controller that returns bad data as good. This is actually really rare case. i never seen that, but maybe it happens. - some types of DRAM failure - but not all. Actually just a small fraction because DRAM failure like that would bring your system to crash so quickly that you are unlikely to get big data corruption. Common case with DRAM memory is that after you write to it, keeps right data some time and RARELY flips some bit later in spite of refresh. With this type you may run your machine for hours, even days or longer. And ZFS would calculate proper checksum of wrong data and will write it to disk. This is the reason i keep few failed DIMMs - for testing how different software behaves on broken machine. UFS resulted in few corrupted files after half a day of heavy work and 4 crashes. fsck always recovered things well (of course unexpected softupdate inconsistency) ZFS survived 2 crashes. After third it panicked on startup. Of course - no zfs_fsck. And no possibility of making really good zfs_fsck because of data layout, at least not easy. This feature is very important for databases. is data integrity not important for the rest? :) Still - disks itself perform quite heavy ECC and both SATA and SAS ports. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
interesting idea but the options ZFS would give you are superior to this setup. Were you just unable to understand my setup or a reasons to do this? please reread former post and possibly ask again if you don't understand the reasons. I ignore performance issues completely for now. But I have still not seen any evidence/facts that ZFS looses more data than UFS. And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
With UFS2 you can use file systems up to 2^73 (8 ZB). The problem is not UFS, but the old tools used to format the disk like fdisk and bsdlabel. For big file systems you must use gpart. true. or not using anything at all (and put filesystem directly on whole device/mirror). The problem with file system recovery times when the worst thing happens(tm) is soluted/mitigated with su+j on FreeBSD9. True but i don't believe completely in SU+J. i use it - eg on my private backup disk. but do full fsck sometimes. and usually few, but nonzero amount of errors are corrected. but with just SU it is easy to solve. Disable fsck on boot at all. softupdates allow that risk without problems. then do fsck at time when full or partial system outage can be tolerated - after work hours. This is my solution used everywhere. of course fsck on 100TB filesystem will be too slow. But it is implementation problem, and could be improved. but i would not recommend making single virtual device (gmirror/gstripe or dedicated hardware matrix controller) from too many disks because of the risk. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
I do understand your setup but I dont have too agree that it is a good so i would repeat my question. Assume you have 48 disks, in mirrored configuration (24 mirrors) and 480 users with their data on them. Your solution with ZFS - ZFS crashes or you get double disk failure. Assuming the latter by average one per 24 file (randomly chosen) is destroyed which - in practice and limited time, means everything destroyed. Actually more than one per 24 - large files can be spread over. Your solution with UFS - better as there is fsck which slowly but successfully repairs problem. with double disk failure - the same! You restore everything from backup (i assume you have one). This takes like a day or more, one or two complete work days lost+all users in practice lost everything since last backup. My solution with UFS - fsck in case of failure work in parallel on 24 disks so not that long. double disk failure means losing data of 1/24 users. every one per 24 user cannot work, others work and i without any stress do recover this 1/24 of users data from backup after putting replacement disks. 1/24 of users lost data since last backup, and some hours of time. Even assuming ZFS is perfect then we both have problems as often, but my problems are 1/24 as severe as yours. Just don't ask me for help when unhappy users will want to cut off your head. And you've never seen me, yet i still exist. Really? that's you anwser to my question. The most childish answer I could stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
I think it is incorrect to assume that a failure with ZFS that cannot be recovered could be recovered if you used UFS with fsck. i think it is incorrect to not read carefully. So explanation - ZFS failure NOT caused by disks failure cannot be usually recovered. But even if i am wrong at this, rest still apply. What fsck fixes in other file systems doesn't apply to ZFS by ZFS's design.fsck deals with fixing superblock inconsistancies on non-journaled file systems (like UFS/UFS2), not resurecting corrupted blocks on a disk. http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/6071-No,-ZFS-really-doesnt-need-a-fsck.html yes i know that article. And it is truly funny for me to know people do think this way. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
Another important point: With 24 ZFS mirrors you'd have your data being striped across ALL the mirrors. This will yield much better performance. i though already after few mails that you can discuss things normally. But this reply just perfectly proves you didn't read more than maybe my last sentence in spite of nearly a page of explanation written. My advices was now for free. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
stupid answer to stupid question. You never seen - but they do happens. In other topic you hammerd on fact and if someone ask you to deliver them its a stupid question. just a proof it is a waste of time to explain things (FOR FREE) for people like you. You are free to make dangerous setups. People are free to hire you and believe at things what you do. People are free to then pay consequences of the results at unexpected time, as well as 10 times oversized hardware for a need. At least this is still free :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
True but this applies as much to you. You think you know it all and that is quite the probdlem with you. And discussing with you is a true waste with this attittute. Even its free. so stop it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
his interactions on several topics. ZFS is stable and tested, and works well if you have the resources. That means RAM as well as hard disks - and if you don't have the resources, most of ZFS's advantages wouldn't be coming into play anyway. I have seen no right. repeat it more times, as your clients may read it :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Second, FreeBSD is not a commercial company, and while this argument may have a merit for commercial sponsors of FreeBSD, it has zero bearing on FreeBSD itself. You seem to be unaware of what percentage of the development and maintenance staff and the money to pay for them comes from those commercial users. If FreeBSD cannot maintain the critical mass to continue, it will not continue. but why it isn't clearly stated: We put clang because sponsors wanted it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
the experimental development branch -HEAD, it _might_ happen that the system doesn't even compile, but updated 30 minutes after that accident, it runs fine again. :-) And finally unless doing tests or using private not-really-important computer, don't just install newest FreeBSD because it's out. I - and lot of others - still use 8.* for production while 9.* is out already for some time. Anyway i think that bleeding edge -HEAD release is still more stable than stable linux kernel. q) I would assume UFS with J+SU is fast enough for a laptop? I think so. For a laptop, you _might_ consider adding encryption. Just in case. You never know. for a server - you MUST do this :) q) The second laptop has an SSD, would UFS with/without J and with/without SU or ZFS make more sense for it? There are several parameters that you can tweak (see man tunefs), I would suggest a single partition spanning the whole SSD, and journaling would not be contraproductive. s/would not/would/ i assume this as mistake. do not journal on SSD. it increases amount of writes, and fsck is quick anyway. do not forget of -t option with newfs (TRIM enable) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
ZFS is superior to UFS. End of the history. There is no point in use old technology (UFS) when the new one can make the same as the older and better ? anyway there must be morons here like me that after observation conclude that older is far safer and better. But if you want end of history then fine. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
We put clang because sponsors wanted it. Sponsors didn't want clang. Sponsors wanted not to be encumbered by a GPLv3 they are not. programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
they are not. programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. Programs that link to GPLv3 libraries are encumbered. you mean libgcc_s.so.1 and libstdc++? scanned /bin and /usr/bin and few programs do link it - all are C++ written. None IMHO are needed in closed-source system really, anyway (i don't have clang installed now) what clang compiled C++ programs use as libstdc++ ? do clang provide it? cannot you just use this (or other) nonGPL library? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Because there's no reason to do that. It's an asinine suggestion. Clang is here to stay. Most of us are happy about that decision. GCC Because most that are not already stopped and ignored thing. and use GCC. Politics won. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
z woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: programs compiled by GPLv3 compiler are not encumbered. This has not been decided in court yet. sources please! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
Agreed. Wojciech Puchar is in my 'probable troll' file at this point, Here too, http://berklix.com/~jhs/dots/.procmailrc.lists very good. just block me, instead of performing aggresive replies and personal attacks. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
sources please! Google GPLv3 court case. There are no applicable results. Until a Judge decides what the license truly means everyone using it is at risk. true. But why anyone from FreeBSD fundation didn't just write official letter to GNU Free Software Foundation asking for just that case? Nothing to loose, lots to gain. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Is ZFS production ready?
___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Only after you, my man, only after you. not yours. i'm not homosexual ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Additionally, the exceptions for using the GCC runtime library for non-GPL executables is limited to what hey call eligible compilation processes, what rules out using proprietary GCC plugins or other combinations of core GCC functionality with non-GPL tooling and extensions. Please note that this is indeed not tested in court. Therefore, reality may turn out even more interesting. That's why a lawyer's answer should always be it depends. :) GNU GPL is even worse that i ever dreamed (in worst horror). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
So, has anyone compared the performance of clang vs gcc compiled in daily use-- for example as a server? Anyone can cherry pick a couple of binaries, but how important is this for the performance of FreeBSD world? not big, as with almost any compiler. Most workload are dominated by cache misses and jump misprediction. That's why my gzip comparision resulted in minimally worse clang-compiled one (1% or less), while f2c converted fortran code for scientific calculations showed large differences. i expect large difference in eg. cjpeg, lame etc and rather small in for eg. perl ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Here[1] we can read a program linking agains a gpl v3 library should be released under the gplv3 too. However, the only concern would be when the program is implicitly linked against libgcc right? Well, there's even an exception[2] for this. this is exactly how i understand that. Anyway DragonFly BSD developers (which is BSD licenced) don't have any problems and just use latest gcc. I'm not saying moving to clang is a bad idea. I am saying this. Moving to worse compiler is a definitely bad idea. This is not a place of politics. As GPLv3 doesn't prevent it from being used in FreeBSD and is better - it should be used. It's simple. If clang would be better - it should be used. Can anyone provide an example of viral propagation of the license if we compile the base system with a gpl v3 gcc? there are none probably. Before actually testing it i believed we move to clang because it is better compiler AND and supported a move. Good lesson to test first and don't believe, even with FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
long term goals. Eliminating, or at least not being dependent on a GNU toolchain. GPL v3 brings with it a whole host problems such as: As you already know i don't like GPL very much. As i already said for me GNU is computer communism. But like or not like, i don't prefer my likeness above facts and FreeBSD performance. And the facts are against clang. BUT PLEASE stop offtopic explaining about secure boot problems and answer one clear question: What exactly GPLv3 have wrong that we can use gcc in longer term for FreeBSD system? OK? Can you just answer that simple question clearly? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
i have samba server and few virtualbox sessions using vboxnet which is started by /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless i want samba to be started AFTER vboxheadless as the latter configures vboxnet0 automatically when started, and samba do bind to vboxnet0. so i appended vboxheadless to REQUIRE: line in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samba because vboxheadless is a word after PROVIDE: in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless script yet - samba still is started before vboxheadless. what i am missing? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you. Pay attention, this gets very complex. The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the project, and not what is best for Wojciech. still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets forget. So please give an answer - not summary. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following contents: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. But still - do you know why it is necessary? cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
The bad thing about GPLv3 is that if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree vendors that use our code base for making their own OSes will ditch FreeBSD as they can be sued by FSF. Juniper for example. It would be wise to listen to their point of view on GPLv3. not really understood this. if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree into what tree? gcc tree or FreeBSD tree? FreeBSD has it's own copy of gcc so any change in gcc doesn't automatically change FreeBSD code and licencing. Can you explain it more precisely privately? thanks FreeBSD is heading the right way: bringing BSD toolchain to the world and fixing world compilation with gcc46 from ports would give anyone a choice on which compiler to use keeping GPL out of tree. the right way is to use best performing tools as long as no law problems exist. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
1. gcc will still be available through the ports system. As well as clang is available in ports. not an argument. 2. The move to clang/llvm as a default compiler will reduce the amount of GPL code in the base system, eventually reducing distribution issues (especially for 3rd parties). true. But JUST reducing GPL code should be a target per se. FreeBSD is about performance and quality not politics or religion. We don't want GPL code because it prevents doing binary only distributions and closed source derivatives, which means reducing FREEDOM. But - if you do closed source derivatives you don't need to include C compiler to run it. And you may allow C compiler separately with source included. No problem. 3. clang/llvm provides better error and warning messages, as well as good static code analysis, which helps reduce some classes of bugs and eventually will result in a more reliable FreeBSD system. as with 1 - you may use clang when developing. 4. clang/llvm is improving quickly. When/If it WILL actually improve to be better than gcc it should be imported to FreeBSD. not sooner. 5. clang/llvm is more modular than gcc, although there are plans for gcc to become as modular, it will take time. Doesn't matter how it is written, but how it performs. 6. gcc produces faster code, but clang/llvm will eventually (soon enough) get there. This is your prediction. Not definite fact, mine and other predictions are different. 7. From the reasons above, it makes sense to complete a task sooner rather than later, especially that clang/llvm isn't showing any signs of weakness (lack of development power, etc). NOBODY prevent you and FreeBSD developers to fix things already - so FreeBSD and ports would compile with both compilers. Actually it is good to fix it already, as making programs compile with both means usually fixing non-portability bug which would help using third compiler that may possibly emerge. But this DO NOT require clang to be a part of main system. As well as making it default. 8. There might be more reasons for or against, but I couldn't think of any. Against: All for arguments assumes clang WILL be better. This is a change as less than 2 days before it was stated to already be better. As a comparision - DragonFly BSD is stated to have better ideas that would result in better performing system in a future. But FOR NOW it is much worse performer than FreeBSD that's why i (and lots of other people) does not switch to DragonFly but of course will when(and if) DragonFly BSD will actually be better. And i don't really think this IF will happen at all, but i wish to DragonFly BSD i am wrong. Same should be used for clang. AS LONG as it is not better it should not be imported into base system or worse - used as default. Making decision based on wishes and personal likes instead of technical facts isn't something that anyone should be proud about. As for your words about doing decision good for FreeBSD, not me - it is pure nonsense attacks because anything that is good for FreeBSD quality is good for me, and the reverse. The decision of switching to clang now it shows that ideologic and religious arguments won over technical arguments. The agressive and data-manipulationg reactions of many people on that list shows that above sentence is true. This IMHO much change. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
#!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. But still - do you know why it is necessary? cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? Yes, that should work too. However any time you update vboxheadless you'll have to remember to add that modification back to the rc script. Using a separate file stops that being a problem. now i understood completely. thank you ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: where's ppmtoxpm
I have searched for ppmtoxpm in ports and in FreeBSD Search Services to no avail. ppmtoxpm converts a portable pixmap into an X11 pixmap. Is there a freebsd equivalent or alternative? No equivalent just the same netpbm package /usr/ports/graphics/netpbm ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
And why you think it's not better then gcc? because - as you already should know - test shows otherwise. As well as FreeBSD running predictable with gcc anyway. Still theory and ideology. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I no. it is temporary. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
A somewhat haphazardly search of the postings in this forum would seem to indicate that any post questioning the ethics or usefulness of FreeBSD as compared to other operating systems that elicit six or more strange but usefulness of FreeBSD wasn't questioned. By the way Fred, please don't Top Post. That pisses people off too, Well. I have to explain people at least once a day not to do it. Sometimes i even get a result and sometime someone learn. rarely. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
But still - do you know why it is necessary? An explanation written some 80 years ago; 'Because that way it will work'. if you don't have anything to say - just don't do it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets forget. Fact; that was NOT a personal attack. Your entire line of reasoning so far has been about -your- preferences, and things as you see them, for _your_ What is specifically my preference? 1) Your opinion about the choice of the standard compiler doesn't matter. Once more - messing with my words and you know this. I am saying that it doesn't matter others than performance. Clang performance is just bad. 2) The decision _has_ been made. The only question at this point is when. And can be reversed because it is faulty. I successfully predicted the fall of linux (in quality point of view) years ago, then netbsd - after this and my prediction were good. Now i predict FreeBSD will fall within 2015 time frame. What i mean fall - that it would be better to use older version as long as possible because newer are worse. For now - FreeBSD 6 was an improvement - FreeBSD 7 was an improvement, except first releases but that's normal - FreeBSD 8 was a big improvement in performance and quality. FreeBSD 9 as for now: - have similar performance at most - have some improvement and important functionality like TRIM support. - have some useful functionality like softdep journalling, but risky. Still - forcing full check reveals some inconsistencies now and then. FreeBSD 10 will unlikely be better, but for sure slower unless you will force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. So now there will be more and more backports done by users just for new drivers until something that replace FreeBSD will be available. Assuming there will at all. Wish i am wrong. Twice i wasn't ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Really, this format of discussion is rather exception than rule (from my experience). or rather - discussion is a rule :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
speed estimates. there are a difference between speed estimate and actual speed - and i talk about the latter only. Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc now. And they are fine with that one. their problem. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD mailing list at all. Actually I can't remember any flame-war about system compilers - this is the first one. because such situation like now never happened - changing C compiler to much worse because of political reasons. But I believe it is a good proof, that clang is a serious alternative to gcc it is only a proof that it was decided to put it as FreeBSD default compiler. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
They could be reduced by a combo. of eg: - forcible unsub, black list, - block of anon. remailer domains - making this list subscribtion required before posting. (which would make it harder for newbies fresh to FreeBSD, but we need some solution) I suggest others too should complain to postmas...@freebsd.org appending offenders bad postings, let postmaster decide action. The only other option I can think of is to personaly extend my procmail filter on my own questions@ incoming stream, to delete all postings from listed individuals. Many others could do similar, but massive inefficiency, newbies couldn't, the noise on the raw unfiltered list in web achives would damage FreeBSD. while subscription is good idea, as well as your personal blacklist, your other proposition would require strict political compatibility with those who would decide about who cannot post. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into different emails? split. or you will end with enormous messy thread. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
it is only a proof that it was decided to put it as FreeBSD default compiler. Everything is said, explained and discusse why this decision is made.. So Explanation about the decision was already made isn't explanation. but i don't require any explanation. actually i don't require anything. what do you want? that someone says Yes you are right clang is shit?. No i don't like words but actions. and i am feared because once such projects like FreeBSD will start to decide about major things this way, it's beginning of end. Politics won over performance and quality. sad. From my side - end of topic ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the CLANG project? because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL licence. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most impressed with it so far. rather huge difference. Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ is the place I always look first. and third - manuals. They are in sync with system and actually VERY useful. while i was still (long time ago) using linux most common manual was like this manual is outdated. Use texinfo documentation. and texinfo docs was often outdated too. Today it is most probably look at wikipedia ;) Of course i means FreeBSD base system, ports are not part of FreeBSD and quality varies. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
I wish that or something like that were true, but pcc is dead even in OpenBSD packages/ports. There was just some discussion on misc@ I am hoping for the day gcc is only used on Linux and many free compilers are used everywhere else. me too. but first we need to have Free compiler that would be at least comparable with gcc in resulting code. Actually i would like to see that even linux migrates out of GNU communism. For now - as i've read in many places, less than 50% of newly developed open source software use GPL licence. It was 95% not long time ago. Good. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? not sure. Why is that so important for you? if you would read even less than carefully the topic you will get the answer. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? Releasing something as GPL does not mean you give up copyright. If I understood this whole thing correctly, I'm not a lawyer but i repeat what i've read time ago, and .. that is a logical result. The act of releasing is, as far as I know, tied to a specific version of the source tree - the point from which others can see, download, use and modify the source counts. If I understand the GPL correctly, from that point (i. e. when contributions have taken place) you cannot turn the result into closed source. However, with your own work, you can. thanks for explanation. from what i know (still, possibly incorrent) if i am hired as a programmer and write a program, this program belong to the company and i couldn't use it everywhere at least officially. I wasn't ever hired as a programmer (or fortunately, as anyone else) so it wasn't ever a problem for me. but that was my reasoning. So - if authors of any project, no matter how numerous, will all without exception agree that they want to get rid of GPL, then - they always can turn it to BSD licenced ? am i right? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? When you license something, you still own the copyright. You can then release it under other licenses as well, and for versions you have modified you can release it under another license *only* if you choose, thanks of explanation. i believed that the rules of GPL affects everyone including the programmer who wrote the code. This is good as with programs that doesn't have huge list of authors, it is still possible to get away from GPL. Would be nice to see someday that term Free software will only mean free software, not free software but... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You i don't talk that case, but if i am hired to write some part of program as an employer in software company. So - if authors of any project, no matter how numerous, will all without exception agree that they want to get rid of GPL, then - they always can turn it to BSD licenced ? am i right? A general consensus of the issuers of the license (continuous licensing) could maybe do that, I assume. Still there would be the possibility to create a fork (common means in open source when something needs to be changed that doesn't go well with mainstream), and that fork could keep the old license. Now there are two independent projects. that is fine. BUT - as everyone is free to obtain, modify and re-issue GPL source code, I'm not sure such a consensus could be reached. by creating a BSD licenced fork - constructed from parts written by all developers that - as you said - have personal right to their code. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
the answer. I'll try to help out, here. Christer Solskogen: I think the reason that is so very important to Wojciech Puchar is the fact that he is incapable of imagining: 1. other concerns that might apply 2. that things appear highly likely to change 3. that a negligible performance difference is . . . negligible I'm pretty sure he's not running compute clusters on FreeBSD, after all. i would recommend you to take more care about yourself, and not me. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: No sound in Flash
FreeBSD 9 (x86_64). Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have googled assiduously and found nothing useful. I have installed Flash, following the instructions in the handbook. Flash is adobe product and they don't provide binaries for FreeBSD, at least they didn't. if you really need flash, you may install gnash from ports. not fully capable but usually works, and doesn't need linux emulator and closed source code. Flash it not a standard. If you want flash mostly to view youtube use youtube-dl from ports. xpi-unplug plugin for firefox (also in ports) often helps with pages that have movies embedded with player. The side effect of using both tools would be having all movies actually downloaded - so you will actually HAVE that movies. downloaded movies play fine with mplayer. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
No you don't. You like what YOU (and ONLY you) think of as facts (see below). still not explained what is wrong in comparing end results of benchmark and seeing that they are quite same. This is the only meaningful point for me. I live ideology for others. Only facts? Well and good. Do you have any proof GNU is in any way connected to any communist movement? Yes. Exactly the same targets and understanding of freedom. Just Richard Stallman is (fortunately) limited mostly to computing. If you cannot see this - i cannot help you any more. sorry. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
lilas% clang -v Apple clang version 2.1 (tags/Apple/clang-163.7.1) (based on LLVM 3.0svn) Target: x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0 lilas% clang -O4 test.c -lf2c lilas% time ./a.out ... real 0m2.359s user 0m2.341s sys 0m0.003s lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -v ? gcc version 4.6.1 (GCC) lilas% /usr/local/bin/gcc -O3 test.c -lf2c lilas% time ./a.out ? real 0m1.241s user 0m1.234s sys 0m0.003s So gcc actually improved. Can you compare the execution speed of latest gcc vs. latest clang. thank you i compared FReeBSD 9 supplied gcc with FreeBSD 9 supplied clang. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
I would also guess that the base system is stuck with gcc ~4.1 due to the GPLv3-ization of later gcc version. Is that correct? true. anyway - can someone point me an article about explaining in human language (contrary to lawyer language) why GPLv3 is more limiting in reality over v2 . Does GPLv3 does force programs you compile with gcc to be GPLed? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
programs like mencoder which require the highest efficiency. Really - just to throw in another opinion: As an average user I don't see any performance impact on my clang-built desktop-every-day-workstation. The only thing that is getting on my nerves are some ports I frequently have to rebuild with gcc. every time anyone will point a fact about clang not being really the best - some fanatics will reply by going off topic, or worse (fortunately not you) - by aggression, attack or lies. Can you finally behave like normal intelligent people or clang-religion fanatics?! facts are important. ONLY FACTS, unless you want to turn whole FreeBSD project from technical quality to useless propaganda. Please don't do it, as FreeBSD is the only really usable unix remaining! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Does GPLv3 does force programs you compile with gcc to be GPLed? As far as I know, the main difference is that the GPLv3 is often called a viral license. Software linking against v3 libraries and so maybe programs compiled by a v3 compiler will have - according to the license - to be released as v3 too. This word: MAYBE is most crucial here. wouldn't it be just simplest solution to ask GNU leader for clearing it out? i wouldn't be surprised that FreeBSD team would decide to go back to gcc soon. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Question about GEOM_ELI` root partition automount
The problem need to solve: Need have end system, when keyfile when boot will be created automatically, and erased securelly just after root crypto` partition mounts (by dd with of=keyfile, for example) That need to do because freebsd have remote hosting. Needs: To make key not (at least EASELY!) catched by unautorised personnel, and noone cat pass password there after reboot or power fail/restore cases. Maby you can give me tip, what pard of src (and maby how, maby /boot/loader src) need to change? how do you want to enter that key? i would make system bootable and ssh-able but with secure data unmounted and very small malloc based md device created. then you upload keyfile to it, run geli to attach encrypted device, overwrite md device and destroy md device. if i understand correctly. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
i tested your test program, and in that case, contrary to testing common unix programs, difference is far higher showing gcc superiority. i did this test with FreeBSD 9 supplied clang and FreeBSD 9 supplied gcc. clearly shows that clang actually cannot do more agressive optimization (that trades space) at all, and at -O2 is far slower. produced: -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 11168 20 cze 06:18 test.cc.O2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 17024 20 cze 06:18 test.cc.O3 -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 17024 20 cze 06:18 test.cc.O9 -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 11096 20 cze 06:18 test.clang.O2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 tmp tmp 11096 20 cze 06:18 test.clang.O3 cc.O2: real0m2.877s user0m2.829s sys 0m0.030s cc.O3: real0m2.142s user0m2.131s sys 0m0.000s cc.09: real0m2.071s user0m2.054s sys 0m0.008s clang.O2: real0m3.440s user0m3.405s sys 0m0.018s clang.O3: real0m3.217s user0m3.205s sys 0m0.001s How about leaving politics and getting back to technical grounds? From what i know now GPLv3 isn't really a problem for us, your may freely distribute binary only software compiled by latest gcc. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
