RE: Docs for Berkeley Make?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathon McKitrick Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:05 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Docs for Berkeley Make? On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 01:20:02AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: : The difference is in the extra candy, which you really don't need or want : to use anyway, unless the project becomes gigantic. : : There's only a handful of open source projects out there which justify : the extra : fancy crapoola in GNU make, in my experience. Unfortunately there's : far too many of them that require gmake simply because the programmer : became enamored of some gimgaw in gmake that had a high coolness factor. : It is really sad to see software that consists of about 10 source files, : that has a makefile that's so non-standard that it requires gmake. Well, I was just using existing BSD makefiles to learn with. But then I got interested in learning libraries. I'm still trying to find a tool or shortcut for handling sonames the best way. But then I found out we are doing a very large project on Linux. I want to make it work on both RH Linux (the target) and FreeBSD (to work on/use at home, of course). I've been learning about the GNU autotools, which seem very finicky, to say the least, but at the same time I don't have to worry about details, like linux-vs-BSD library details And it would be easy to handle, for instance, the difference between the names of serial ports on the 2 platforms. If this were only for BSD, I'd use the makefile framework. But it's not. And it's going to be a large enough project that I don't have the time to constantly fiddle with makefiles and such. And obviously, this also has to work with CVS. I'm the only developer with *any* real Unix experience, and that's very modest experience, to say the least. Any other ideas I should look into? I think the GNU autotools are what you want. And there is no prerequisite to use gmake with them. The biggest problem with the autotools is that too many programmers get the idea that the way to use the autotools is to copy some other project's configuration and just edit it a bit and slap it into their program. In other words a short cut. Be warned, this is very bad. You really need to read all the autotools documents, digest them, and write your configs from scratch. You don't want people laughing at you because your checking for libcrypt yet nothing in your program requires it. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Docs for Berkeley Make?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathon McKitrick Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:12 AM To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: Docs for Berkeley Make? On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 01:23:23PM +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: : Older revisions of the O'Reilly book cover the Berkeley make. : : No, unfortunately not. Firstly this is a completely different book, : and secondly the old (Oram/Talbott) book also didn't cover Berkeley : Make. There's a little in my book Porting UNIX Software (out of : print but available at http://www.lemis.com/grog/PUS/. It's not very : much, though. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I have a new project at work which will be developed under Linux, and I was hoping to write makefiles that would work under both OSes using the same make command. But now I'm not so sure that will work. I don't understand why BSD make and GNU make diverged so much. They didn't diverge. Both have a set of core commands that they understand. The difference is in the extra candy, which you really don't need or want to use anyway, unless the project becomes gigantic. There's only a handful of open source projects out there which justify the extra fancy crapoola in GNU make, in my experience. Unfortunately there's far too many of them that require gmake simply because the programmer became enamored of some gimgaw in gmake that had a high coolness factor. It is really sad to see software that consists of about 10 source files, that has a makefile that's so non-standard that it requires gmake. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Docs for Berkeley Make?
On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 01:20:02AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: : The difference is in the extra candy, which you really don't need or want : to use anyway, unless the project becomes gigantic. : : There's only a handful of open source projects out there which justify : the extra : fancy crapoola in GNU make, in my experience. Unfortunately there's : far too many of them that require gmake simply because the programmer : became enamored of some gimgaw in gmake that had a high coolness factor. : It is really sad to see software that consists of about 10 source files, : that has a makefile that's so non-standard that it requires gmake. Well, I was just using existing BSD makefiles to learn with. But then I got interested in learning libraries. I'm still trying to find a tool or shortcut for handling sonames the best way. But then I found out we are doing a very large project on Linux. I want to make it work on both RH Linux (the target) and FreeBSD (to work on/use at home, of course). I've been learning about the GNU autotools, which seem very finicky, to say the least, but at the same time I don't have to worry about details, like linux-vs-BSD library details And it would be easy to handle, for instance, the difference between the names of serial ports on the 2 platforms. If this were only for BSD, I'd use the makefile framework. But it's not. And it's going to be a large enough project that I don't have the time to constantly fiddle with makefiles and such. And obviously, this also has to work with CVS. I'm the only developer with *any* real Unix experience, and that's very modest experience, to say the least. Any other ideas I should look into? Jonathon -- The beaten path is for the beaten man. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Docs for Berkeley Make?
On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 01:23:23PM +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: : Older revisions of the O'Reilly book cover the Berkeley make. : : No, unfortunately not. Firstly this is a completely different book, : and secondly the old (Oram/Talbott) book also didn't cover Berkeley : Make. There's a little in my book Porting UNIX Software (out of : print but available at http://www.lemis.com/grog/PUS/. It's not very : much, though. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I have a new project at work which will be developed under Linux, and I was hoping to write makefiles that would work under both OSes using the same make command. But now I'm not so sure that will work. I don't understand why BSD make and GNU make diverged so much. P.S. Greg, my wife just bought me a homebrew kit for our 1-year anniversary. I found your homebrew pages (especially the BSD-based temperature controller) quite enlightening. :-) jm -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Docs for Berkeley Make?
[Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Broken wrapping. On Saturday, 29 January 2005 at 17:47:29 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: On Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:53 PM, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: I just got the O'Reilly book on GNU Make, but I'd really like to focus on Berkeley Make when possible. Older revisions of the O'Reilly book cover the Berkeley make. No, unfortunately not. Firstly this is a completely different book, and secondly the old (Oram/Talbott) book also didn't cover Berkeley Make. There's a little in my book Porting UNIX Software (out of print but available at http://www.lemis.com/grog/PUS/. It's not very much, though. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html See complete headers for address and phone numbers. pgp3nHFYxzXub.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Docs for Berkeley Make?
On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 12:47, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathon McKitrick Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:53 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Docs for Berkeley Make? Hi all, I just got the O'Reilly book on GNU Make, but I'd really like to focus on Berkeley Make when possible. Older revisions of the O'Reilly book cover the Berkeley make. Ted zmore /usr/share/doc/psd/12.make/paper.ascii.gz will tell you about Pmake which is very close to the original Berkeley Make I think. mjt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***This Email has been scanned for Viruses by MailMarshal.*** -- Murray Taylor Special Projects Engineer - Bytecraft Systems Entertainment P: +61 3 8710 2555 F: +61 3 8710 2599 D: +61 3 9238 4275 M: +61 417 319 256 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit us on the web http://www.bytecraftsystems.com http://www.bytecraftentertainment.com --- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --- ***This Email has been scanned for Viruses by MailMarshal.*** ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Docs for Berkeley Make?
Hi all, I just got the O'Reilly book on GNU Make, but I'd really like to focus on Berkeley Make when possible. Where can I find some good examples (other than the source tree makefiles, which are very complex) and documentation on the differences between the two versions of make? TIA, jm -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Docs for Berkeley Make?
On 2005-01-29 20:53, Jonathon McKitrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just got the O'Reilly book on GNU Make, but I'd really like to focus on Berkeley Make when possible. Where can I find some good examples (other than the source tree makefiles, which are very complex) and documentation on the differences between the two versions of make? If you have the doc package set installed, look in: /usr/share/doc/psd/12.make If not, the same documents are available as part of the online FreeBSD documentation set: http://docs.FreeBSD.org/ This is not a comparison of GNU make and BSD make. It's just a guide for BSD make. I believe it's a guide that is better than trying to decipher the makefiles of the src/ tree. AFAIK, the latter tend to depend on a lot of features of the src/share/mk/* stuff, which are not necessarily available and do not work exactly the same with all versions of BSD make out there. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Docs for Berkeley Make?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathon McKitrick Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:53 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Docs for Berkeley Make? Hi all, I just got the O'Reilly book on GNU Make, but I'd really like to focus on Berkeley Make when possible. Older revisions of the O'Reilly book cover the Berkeley make. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
