Re: OT: Looking for some inpiration with UPS setup
NetOpsCenter wrote: Christopher Key wrote: I've a FreeBSD fileserver, a solid state router (Linksys box running OpenWRT) and a couple of gigabit switches that I'd like to move onto a UPS (I'm primarily looking at the APC Smart-UPS line). I have a similar setup in my noc shed. I got 2 old APC units that a client had replaced and attached a 120 AMP stationery batteries to them. They will power the switch, 3 servers and KVM switches and a monitor for 6 hours uninterrupted. It's not pretty to look at but is stable and does the job nicely. I'm rather pressed for space, this gear is in a tiny cupboard also storing the traditional contents of a utility room and garage. I'd manged to allow myself 1 shelf, 30cm x 50cm x 20cm for the UPS gear. That might just be enough space to squeeze in a UPS and a 120Ah SLA battery, which would keep both up for at least 6h, hopefully enough to span most outages. For outages longer than that, I'd probably not mind losing my DHCP leases anyway. Are there any specific requirements for the attached batteries, or will any 12V SLA battery suffice? It's just a shame that no UPS units offer a WOL option for waking up attached equipment. Regards, Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Looking for some inpiration with UPS setup
Christopher Key wrote: NetOpsCenter wrote: Christopher Key wrote: I've a FreeBSD fileserver, a solid state router (Linksys box running OpenWRT) and a couple of gigabit switches that I'd like to move onto a UPS (I'm primarily looking at the APC Smart-UPS line). I have a similar setup in my noc shed. I got 2 old APC units that a client had replaced and attached a 120 AMP stationery batteries to them. They will power the switch, 3 servers and KVM switches and a monitor for 6 hours uninterrupted. It's not pretty to look at but is stable and does the job nicely. I'm rather pressed for space, this gear is in a tiny cupboard also storing the traditional contents of a utility room and garage. I'd manged to allow myself 1 shelf, 30cm x 50cm x 20cm for the UPS gear. That might just be enough space to squeeze in a UPS and a 120Ah SLA battery, which would keep both up for at least 6h, hopefully enough to span most outages. For outages longer than that, I'd probably not mind losing my DHCP leases anyway. Are there any specific requirements for the attached batteries, or will any 12V SLA battery suffice? It's just a shame that no UPS units offer a WOL option for waking up attached equipment. Hi, I wonder why it is such a big deal to keep the leases? Why not asssign static IP's to everything instead if it is a small setup? Just curious... --per ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Looking for some inpiration with UPS setup
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:33:34 + Christopher Key [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've a FreeBSD fileserver, a solid state router (Linksys box running OpenWRT) and a couple of gigabit switches that I'd like to move onto a UPS (I'm primarily looking at the APC Smart-UPS line). The requirements for the FreeBSD system are pretty simple, it's not likely to be of any use if the power's out, so after a few minutes to allow any files open over the network to be saved, it should perform an orderly shutdown and remain off until the power returns. However, the router is a little different. It maintains some state information in RAM (dhcp leases etc) that I'd prefer not to lose during a short power outage, and it would also be useful to retain internet access, so ideally I'd like the router and switches to stay up for as long as the battery lasts in the UPS. Space and budget are limited, so ideally I'd like to achieve all this with a single UPS, which is where the problems arise. As I understant it, when the UPS wants to wake the attached machines up, it power cycles its output. This however will reset the router, which was what I was hoping to avoid. Looking at the relative power requirements, I suspect your Linksys WRT box would likely draw 12W max and perhaps a good deal less (check its specs or measure it) whereas your server + switches might draw 10 times that, even without a monitor staying on. (P-166 or 3GHz quad-core? :) Given you're using a main UPS that needs to cycle power to restart your server (presumably powered off by 'shutdown -p +1 message for syslog' ONO after several minutes running on UPS battery) then using a tiny UPS to run your router separately makes good sense. Have a look at, for example, http://phk.freebsd.dk/soekris/ups/ which supplies 12V for a Soekris 4501/4801 but could easily be adapted if the Linksys isn't happy with 12VDC input. A 12Ah SLA battery could run the Soekris at 6W (.5A) for maybe 20 hrs. The 250/12VAC transformer needed is likely in a nearby junkbox as a plugpak for some external modem, or you could use many 12-15VDC @1A unregulated supplies, which include the transformer and the first rectifier .. even more old modems used these. Meanwhile your larger (3-500VA?) UPS can look after your server etc. I've thought around the problem for some time, but not come up with any convincing solutions: 1) Use some sort of WOL command from the router to the FreeBSD system rather than having the UPS power cycle its output. How does the router know the power's returned? Can the UPS be set not to power cycle its power output when the power returns? No idea about the former, and I don't know if OpenWRT could be made to listen to the UPS and act on it - anything's possible I guess - but if the UPS is still running when power returns, it has to cycle power to wakeup the server somehow, or you need some sort of external swiching. 2) Use a second cheap UPS to 'protect' the router whilst the primary UPS cycles its power output. This seems rather crude, and would presumably reduce the battery life of the primary UPS due the losses in the second UPS. As above .. if the second UPS is small, it will be relatively efficient for its load, and can be run from the mains rather than the primary UPS. Anything bigger than 12Ah (or even 7Ah) for the router UPS is overkill, and it's more efficient to run the router on DC than its plugpak anyway. 3) Have the UPS wake the PC via some other means. USB would seem to ideal choice, but the motherboard won't do a wake on USB from S5, and I'm can't find a UPS with an ethernet interface. Some older laptops, at least, were reputed to do wake-on-serial input, but I'm not sure if that would work with (serial) UPS wiring or not. 4) KISS. Buy two smaller, cheapers UPS units. Or buy one, get one (nearly) free from the junkbox and a few bits from the local electronics store. Coopt a friendly engineering student if you're wary about the bit of soldering or choosing components. Generally: don't shutdown your server too soon .. I don't know about your situation, but here at least most blackouts, brownouts and surges last just a few seconds, sometimes short enough to reset server A while server B sails through, but outages more than a few minutes are much rarer (and are then likely to last perhaps hours). Sometimes power will come back for a few seconds then quit again, and you don't want too much stop/start, so if you can persuade your UPS to wait for a minute or so of good power before cycling its output back on, so much the safer. Cheers, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: Looking for some inpiration with UPS setup
Hello, Apolgies for the slightly OT post, but I'm hoping that some of the ammased expertise might be able to suggest a solution. I've a FreeBSD fileserver, a solid state router (Linksys box running OpenWRT) and a couple of gigabit switches that I'd like to move onto a UPS (I'm primarily looking at the APC Smart-UPS line). The requirements for the FreeBSD system are pretty simple, it's not likely to be of any use if the power's out, so after a few minutes to allow any files open over the network to be saved, it should perform an orderly shutdown and remain off until the power returns. However, the router is a little different. It maintains some state information in RAM (dhcp leases etc) that I'd prefer not to lose during a short power outage, and it would also be useful to retain internet access, so ideally I'd like the router and switches to stay up for as long as the battery lasts in the UPS. Space and budget are limited, so ideally I'd like to achieve all this with a single UPS, which is where the problems arise. As I understant it, when the UPS wants to wake the attached machines up, it power cycles its output. This however will reset the router, which was what I was hoping to avoid. I've thought around the problem for some time, but not come up with any convincing solutions: 1) Use some sort of WOL command from the router to the FreeBSD system rather than having the UPS power cycle its output. How does the router know the power's returned? Can the UPS be set not to power cycle its power output when the power returns? 2) Use a second cheap UPS to 'protect' the router whilst the primary UPS cycles its power output. This seems rather crude, and would presumably reduce the battery life of the primary UPS due the losses in the second UPS. 3) Have the UPS wake the PC via some other means. USB would seem to ideal choice, but the motherboard won't do a wake on USB from S5, and I'm can't find a UPS with an ethernet interface. 4) KISS. Buy two smaller, cheapers UPS units. Does anyone have any clever ideas for a solution? Any thoughts much appreciated. -- Regards, Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
