Re: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

2005-02-20 Thread bsdnooby

If you have an HP or Compaq laptop, and you see this problem TRY the
R3000Z patches.
 

I tried a bunch of things to get my HP Pavilion to work, but I decided I 
would delay converting this machine until I know more about what I am 
doing.  FreeBSD 5.3 *does* install on another P3-650 laptop on which I 
just upgraded the HD from 10GB to 100GB.  My Pavilion is going to sit on 
a shelf  until it can boot FreeBSD.  The 100GB drive makes my old laptop 
suddenly usable again (as a primary machine). 

In hindsight, I should not have bought the HP, and it's too late to take 
it back.  Thats what I get for playing World of Warcraft on it for 30 
days under Windows.  My advice to anybody thinking of buying an HP 
laptop, is to not do it.  I bought the 100GB 2.5 drive for $200 at 
CompUSA, any old laptop that can already run FreeBSD can use one of them 
to become very useful again.

I also bought a FireWire card for my old laptop, and am hoping that  I 
will be able to use my external drives with FreeBSD (it worked under Win 
XP and Fedora Core 3).  I have about 4 external 160GB drives that can 
work on FireWire and USB2.  I  didn't have much luck with them on FC3 
using USB2, but they worked great under FireWire.  I am hoping FreeBSD 
5.3 will also work with FireWire.  Windows was just the opposite, USB2 
worked well and FireWire was flaky.

I'm sure I'll ask more about my FreeBSD install problems in the future, 
but for now, I'm going to learn using the machines that it works on.  By 
the time I'm comfortable with this OS, the problems will probably be 
solved.  I don't blame FreeBSD for any of this, it's the HP Pavilion 
that is weird.  Its the only machine I've owned where nothing could be 
changed within the BIOS  (like disabling HyperThreading).  The only 
thing I can change in the BIOS is the date/time.

thx
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RE: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

2005-02-15 Thread Ted Mittelstaedt


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of bsdnooby
 Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:33 PM
 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: All your laptops are belong to Windows.



 I'm defeated.  The FreeBSD install gives no hints as to why it
 turns off
 my laptop.

 When I try to install FreeBSD, my brand new I'm blue.HP
 Pavilion laptop
 turns itself off.  It does not matter if I use 4.x or 5.x, CD or
 floppies.  There is no error log since it just shuts off after
 I choose
 to load a kernel.  I have tried loading with ACPI off, and it does not
 help.  I believe I tried all the kernel options available from
 the menu
 on 5.x.


After reading that 4.X is killing it, my guess is that what's going on
is that one of the device drivers compiled into the kernel that is
for a piece of hardware that is NOT on your laptop is issuing a probe
that is hitting a port that HP decided to use for something.

If you really wanted to, and you have a system already running 5.X,
it is possible to compile a custom kernel that has all device drivers
stripped out of it, then put this kernel onto the first install floppy
and do a floppy install of FreeBSD.  Then make sure a copy of that kernel
exists on the system when you reboot.

This is a long and complicated procedure, unfortunately, and since
your laptop is brand new, probably isn't worth it since you can simply
return the laptop to the store and get a different one.  (since it's
under the 30 day return policy)

Before you do that though it would be very kind if you could please
submit
a PR for this so we can get it documented.

I also still think that the ACPI could possibly be at fault.  I know that
there's an option to disable ACPI probes, but I had a similar problem
with a different system back in the early 4.X series of FreeBSD.  I
forget
the version of FreeBSD that they introduced ACPI support, but I clearly
recall the prior version of FreeBSD booting and running on a desktop,
then the next 4.x version which had ACPI, not booting on this system,
despite turning off the ACPI probe.  As I recall a BIOS update from
the manufacturer fixed the problem.  (ACPI still didn't work but at least
the diskettes booted)

Of course, since power management on a laptop is pretty required, an
exercise in getting a stripped kernel running on that Pavilion is purely
academic.

 The computer is a HP Pavilion zv5445us, with 512MB RAM, P4-3Ghz, 100GB
 HD, 15.4 Hi-Def Screen, 54G 802.11b WLAN.  I purchased it
 from Best Buy.


Best Buy is fairly good at taking exchanges within 30 days.  Their
written
policy kind of threatens a restocking charge of 15% on opened notebook
computers -
but the exception is if the item is defective.  In your case you have a
grey area, but if you were to take it back and tell them that the system
is periodically shutting itself down and you want to exchange it for a
different model because you don't have any confidence in the zv5445us,
they wouldn't be able to verify this and you could probably talk your way
out of the restock charge, PARTICULARLY if you bought the item on a
credit
card - since credit card issuers generally take a dim view of restock
fees on consumer items.  I have had a family member do this exact thing
with a laptop he bought from there a few years ago.  (it wasn't a FreeBSD
thing, the laptop was just not very well made and he ended up buying a
more expensive laptop from them)  This is also particularly if you bring
back ALL OF
the original packing materials AND THE SOFTWARE particularly if it's
unopened,
and repack the laptop in it's box.  Remember
that Best Buy has to send the thing back to HP and if it breaks in
transit
and it wasn't in the factory cardboard, HP is going to charge Best Buy
for the loss.

 abruptly shutdown when trying to do the install.  It turns off before
 the install really starts, so I do not have much information to solve
 this problem.  The HD is never touched.

 I'm blue.


Don't be.  The project doesen't intend for end users to solve these
sorts of problems, frankly.  Return the laptop and get a different model
which will probably work fine and consider it a learning experience.

There's enough people within the Project that have contacts within HP
that if a decently-written PR was filed, it could be quitely handled
within HP.  I must warn you though that unless a PR is filed, nobody
is going to bother with a complaint on a mailing list.  You can file a
PR from any FreeBSD system you have.  See the handbook for details.

A PR also documents the problem so that other potential purchasers
will know to avoid the problem model.

Ted

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Re: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

2005-02-15 Thread Ramiro Aceves
Hello,
Have a look at http://gerda.univie.ac.at/freebsd-laptops/ , I have not
found your model, but perhaps you can take some hints from other HP laptops.
Good Luck
Ramiro
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Re: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

2005-02-15 Thread Rainer Duffner
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of bsdnooby
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:33 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

I'm defeated.  The FreeBSD install gives no hints as to why it
turns off
my laptop.
When I try to install FreeBSD, my brand new I'm blue.HP
Pavilion laptop
turns itself off.  It does not matter if I use 4.x or 5.x, CD or
floppies.  There is no error log since it just shuts off after
I choose
to load a kernel.  I have tried loading with ACPI off, and it does not
help.  I believe I tried all the kernel options available from
the menu
on 5.x.
   

After reading that 4.X is killing it, my guess is that what's going on
is that one of the device drivers compiled into the kernel that is
for a piece of hardware that is NOT on your laptop is issuing a probe
that is hitting a port that HP decided to use for something.
If you really wanted to, and you have a system already running 5.X,
it is possible to compile a custom kernel that has all device drivers
stripped out of it, then put this kernel onto the first install floppy
and do a floppy install of FreeBSD.  Then make sure a copy of that kernel
exists on the system when you reboot.
This is a long and complicated procedure, unfortunately, 

If the laptop can do PXE-boot, it may be easier to build that 
custom-kernel for a PXE-install...

Search for FreeBSD PXE install on Google.
But I agree that it might be a better idea to get another laptop. I 
didn't have much problems with the FSC E8010, but it's not the cheapest 
and the power-management left something to be desired, I will retry it, 
though in the next weeks or months. Also, as the support for vmware4 on 
FreeBSD matures, it might also kill the only other reason for Linux on 
that thing ;-)

If you want to keep a HP, try a NX 7010 and see if that works better. 
The Pavillion-series is really the low-end of the spectrum.


cheers,
Rainer
--
===
~ Rainer Duffner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~
~   Freising - Munich - Germany   ~
~Unix - Linux - BSD - OpenSource - Security   ~
~  http://www.ultra-secure.de/~rainer/pubkey.pgp  ~
===
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Re: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

2005-02-15 Thread Davide Lemma
I'm in a situation similar to you... I've just purchased a Medion SIM2000, 
it boots up but I've also some troubles with sound  modem.
Here the strange problem is that the sound card is a AC97 ALS (SiS7012) and 
it just outputs from headphone and the modem is a SiS7013 (Intel Winmodem) 
that isn't  in the ports tree (while there is the LT winmodem).
For the Video Card with some trick I was able to get a full 16:9 resolution 
like in windows but without DRI (this is an Xorg problem).
Above all I'm almost surprised because I know the difficulty to work with a 
laptop  unix.
I've tried Fedora Core 3  Debian III but it gives me an error during boot 
(acpi error).
So like a BSD users I feel above all lucky enough.
The only suggestion I feel to give you is to wait the awake of 6.0 because 
it will have many changes in ACPI calls. I'm waiting too to have some tricks 
about my sound card :)

bye Davide
- Original Message - 
From: bsdnooby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:32 AM
Subject: All your laptops are belong to Windows.


I'm defeated.  The FreeBSD install gives no hints as to why it turns off 
my laptop.

When I try to install FreeBSD, my brand new I'm blue.HP Pavilion laptop 
turns itself off.  It does not matter if I use 4.x or 5.x, CD or floppies. 
There is no error log since it just shuts off after I choose to load a 
kernel.  I have tried loading with ACPI off, and it does not help.  I 
believe I tried all the kernel options available from the menu on 5.x.

The computer is a HP Pavilion zv5445us, with 512MB RAM, P4-3Ghz, 100GB HD, 
15.4 Hi-Def Screen, 54G 802.11b WLAN.  I purchased it from Best Buy.

Under Windows, it appears Hyper-Threading is turned on, and I have not 
found a way to turn it off inside the CMOS.

The machine runs Windows XP Pro fine, but I am trying to switch to FreeBSD 
on all my boxen.  I was really surprised to find this one abruptly 
shutdown when trying to do the install.  It turns off before the install 
really starts, so I do not have much information to solve this problem. 
The HD is never touched.

I'm blue.
--
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Re: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

2005-02-15 Thread Astrodog
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:40:51 +0100, Davide Lemma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm in a situation similar to you... I've just purchased a Medion SIM2000,
 it boots up but I've also some troubles with sound  modem.
 Here the strange problem is that the sound card is a AC97 ALS (SiS7012) and
 it just outputs from headphone and the modem is a SiS7013 (Intel Winmodem)
 that isn't  in the ports tree (while there is the LT winmodem).
 For the Video Card with some trick I was able to get a full 16:9 resolution
 like in windows but without DRI (this is an Xorg problem).
 Above all I'm almost surprised because I know the difficulty to work with a
 laptop  unix.
 I've tried Fedora Core 3  Debian III but it gives me an error during boot
 (acpi error).
 So like a BSD users I feel above all lucky enough.
 The only suggestion I feel to give you is to wait the awake of 6.0 because
 it will have many changes in ACPI calls. I'm waiting too to have some tricks
 about my sound card :)
 
 bye Davide
 
 - Original Message -
 From: bsdnooby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:32 AM
 Subject: All your laptops are belong to Windows.
 
 
  I'm defeated.  The FreeBSD install gives no hints as to why it turns off
  my laptop.
 
  When I try to install FreeBSD, my brand new I'm blue.HP Pavilion laptop
  turns itself off.  It does not matter if I use 4.x or 5.x, CD or floppies.
  There is no error log since it just shuts off after I choose to load a
  kernel.  I have tried loading with ACPI off, and it does not help.  I
  believe I tried all the kernel options available from the menu on 5.x.
 
  The computer is a HP Pavilion zv5445us, with 512MB RAM, P4-3Ghz, 100GB HD,
  15.4 Hi-Def Screen, 54G 802.11b WLAN.  I purchased it from Best Buy.
 
  Under Windows, it appears Hyper-Threading is turned on, and I have not
  found a way to turn it off inside the CMOS.
 
  The machine runs Windows XP Pro fine, but I am trying to switch to FreeBSD
  on all my boxen.  I was really surprised to find this one abruptly
  shutdown when trying to do the install.  It turns off before the install
  really starts, so I do not have much information to solve this problem.
  The HD is never touched.
 
  I'm blue.
 
 
  --
  No virus found in this outgoing message.
  Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
  Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005
 
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If you have an HP or Compaq laptop, and you see this problem TRY the
R3000Z patches.
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Re: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

2005-02-15 Thread Michael W. Oliver
On 2005-02-15T01:06:58-0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

[ridiculous attribution from Outlook snipped]

  The computer is a HP Pavilion zv5445us, with 512MB RAM, P4-3Ghz, 100GB
  HD, 15.4 Hi-Def Screen, 54G 802.11b WLAN.  I purchased it
  from Best Buy.

 Best Buy is fairly good at taking exchanges within 30 days.  Their
 written policy kind of threatens a restocking charge of 15% on opened
 notebook computers - but the exception is if the item is defective.
 In your case you have a grey area, but if you were to take it back and
 tell them that the system is periodically shutting itself down and you
 want to exchange it for a different model because you don't have any
 confidence in the zv5445us, they wouldn't be able to verify this and
 you could probably talk your way out of the restock charge,
 PARTICULARLY if you bought the item on a credit card - since credit
 card issuers generally take a dim view of restock fees on consumer
 items.  I have had a family member do this exact thing with a laptop
 he bought from there a few years ago.  (it wasn't a FreeBSD thing, the
 laptop was just not very well made and he ended up buying a more
 expensive laptop from them)  This is also particularly if you bring
 back ALL OF the original packing materials AND THE SOFTWARE
 particularly if it's unopened, and repack the laptop in it's box.
 Remember that Best Buy has to send the thing back to HP and if it
 breaks in transit and it wasn't in the factory cardboard, HP is going
 to charge Best Buy for the loss.

If you return it to Best Buy and decide to pick up another laptop, bring
a FreeSBIE disc with you, and maybe a Frenzy disc, to test the laptop
before you buy it.  I have done this a couple of times, and only once
did someone even ask me what I was doing, and when I started to explain,
their eyes glazed over and I just went back to testing.

I ended up buying a Sager 4750V from discountlaptops.com and have been
very happy, except for the first few days.  The firewire controller has
issues on this laptop, and 5.3-RELEASE puked when probing the fwohci.  I
used a Frenzy disc, which does NOT have firewire support in the kernel,
and was able to boot it fine, whereas FreeSBIE (and any GENERIC FreeBSD)
had firewire compiled into the install media kernel, causing me much
heartache.  If you are interested in more detail, check out...

http://michael.gargantuan.com/sager_4750v/

HTH, have a good day.

(I am not affiliated with discountlaptops.com, other than being a
satisfied customer)

-- 
Mike Oliver
[see complete headers for contact information]



pgpIc3s79mRHU.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: All your laptops are belong to Windows.

2005-02-14 Thread Erich Dollansky
Hi,
bsdnooby wrote:
I'm defeated.  The FreeBSD install gives no hints as to why it turns off 
my laptop.

FreeBSD's weakest point is the support for notebooks.
I could get it running at least but it did not make real sense to keep 
it as the power management was to limited. I kept this machine as my 
only Windows machine to do support Windows programs.

It is very often the case that notebook vendors do not give the support 
needed to adopt the drivers to make FreeBSD a success on those machines.

Erich
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