Re: which gray is best for print?

[John Almberg]

On Sep 7, 2008, at 6:22 PM, Bernt Hansson wrote:


Polytropon skrev:

Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white -


No. The best contrast is light yellow background with black letters.


I play around with terminal colors occasionally (a great time waster)  
but the main colors I care about in a terminal are my vim color  
scheme... those looks best in a black on white terminal. I know  
because for years I used a white on black terminal, but always had a  
hard time seeing the dark blue on black... it finally dawned on me  
that it would look a lot better if I had a white background (duh!)


I guess you could create your own color schemes for everything, but I  
don't have that kind of time!


-- John
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Polytropon]

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:22:55 +0200, Bernt Hansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Polytropon skrev:
> > 
> > Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - 
> 
> No. The best contrast is light yellow background with black letters.

The Solaris/CDE X Terminal, I know. :-)


-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Bernt Hansson]

Polytropon skrev:


Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - 


No. The best contrast is light yellow background with black letters.
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Polytropon]

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 01:33:55 +0200, cpghost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Personally, I really dislike pure white backgrounds on light-emitting
> surfaces. When reading from a physical book, white is the best background,
> but when reading it from a CRT or LCD, it hurts my eyes very fast up to a
> point where I start to get a headache and have to stop after 10 to 20
> minutes.

While the book paper just reflects light, the screen (CRT or LED)
emits light, this seems to have a higher energy that is sometimes
not very pleasant to the eye's sensory array.



> That's why I usually use a user-specific CSS to override that
> pure-white background and change it to light grey.

That's what I like the switch "Author mode / user mode" in the
Opera browser. It strips any CSS stuff from the document and lets
me apply my custom color settings. Sometimes, even badly designed
pages become readable after all.




-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Polytropon]

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 01:19:00 +0200, cpghost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But do also provide a 1-page version with a sensible print medium CSS
> (or even a nicely formatted PDF), so that users can create a hard copy
> version with a minimun of fuss and clicks.

The last advice is the best one, I think. PDF has the advantage that
it (usually) renders 1:1 as the author intends it (just as PostScript
does; anyone remembers "Display Ghost Script"?). While CSS provides
means to setup printing characteristics on the client's site, it's
not interpreted correctly by the various browsers (or their common
substitutes that do not follow standards), or they may interfere with
local browser printing settings.


-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Gary Kline]

On Sun, Sep 07, 2008 at 01:33:55AM +0200, cpghost wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 10:38:45AM -0700, Kent wrote:
> 
> (...)
> 
> > IIRC, dyslexics have a much harder time reading when the background is dark.
> > 
> > Kent
> 
> That's really interesting! ... But everyone's different:
> 
> Personally, I really dislike pure white backgrounds on light-emitting
> surfaces. When reading from a physical book, white is the best background,
> but when reading it from a CRT or LCD, it hurts my eyes very fast up to a
> point where I start to get a headache and have to stop after 10 to 20
> minutes. That's why I usually use a user-specific CSS to override that
> pure-white background and change it to light grey. I even wrote a little
> transparent web proxy many years ago, that would rewrite HTML back in the
> days when CSS was not yet as popular, just to grey-ish this hurting white
> background.

Man, this is getting interestinger and interestinger.  wHen i've found
something that looks enhoyable but hurts my eyes -- and Yes! i detest
reading online for very long [esp'ly with any (censored) ads flashing],
I'll save the file and change the colors.  if it's some script that has
no "#xx" i'll rty to save via lynx, then use my probgram to turn back
into HTML, and then edit the bg/fg to suit me.  ---i thought i was the
only one whose eyes hurts hurt.  Hmph.

> 
> Of course, the ideal solution would be to offer visitors switchable or
> even freely-configurable color themes to satisfy everyone's tastes and
> preferences. But the issue is then still that of the default theme would
> usually still be (sadly IMHO, luckily in most other peoples' mind) pure
> white background... so it's still 'user-specific CSS' for new websites.
> 


This is something i've been considering for a couple years.  The
ink+paper version is set in concrete, but the web version can be 
PHp-tweaked. Or, more likely, let reader's have their choice of
some N versions.  The whole of this "jottings" book/chapbook is
< 90k bytes, so it's not like i'll be spending that much disk
space.  Also, what i'm working on now is Version 2.0.x, smmaler 
still thanks for friends' help.  As tho it weren't evident, i can
run on a bit:)


> -cpghost.
> 
> -- 
> Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Gary Kline]

{ After spending hours looking for a used ThinkPad}

On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 01:53:46PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 20:36:45 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So you're saying that the "white" on my [monster] CRT is not the
> > same as on a future LCD Display?  rats:)  
> 
> Exactly. And compare the "black", too, best way to differentiate
> with CRT and LCD side by side with a fullscreen color "black".
> 

Isn't it dark-gray, tho? or as "black" as a dark tube gets,
rather than "true-black"?


> 
> 
> > --I can't see much
> > difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it
> > wasn't a main concern ... .
> 
> Human perception is another thing. Just because *I* can't notice
> something, it doesn't imply that (1) others can't and (2) it isn't
> there. In order to make a human person *feel* the change of a
> sensory input is linear (e. g. the light intensity increases), you
> need to increase the actual input in a logarithmic way.
> 
> http://www.neuro.uu.se/fysiologi/gu/nbb/lectures/WebFech.html
> 

tHis I'll check out; you've piqued my curiousity, even tho this 
gets further from whatever I was talking about:-)  ...Not only
are the psychological varioations, but neurophysiological ones as
well.  And gender diffs too.  My better two-thirds says that I
may as well be color-blind, and she's probably right.  What I
will avoid is having some *Ugly* combos like black on dark blue.
No, I am Not kidding.  Or yellow typeface on White bg.  It's like
the shriek/skreek of chalk against a blackboard.  Makes my skin crawl.

> 
> 
> > I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got
> > far into optics.
> 
> Physics comes in 5 quarters? 5 * 0.25 = 1.25... :-)
> 
> 
> 
> >  And certainly, nothing like *this*.
> 
> I learned about this when I studied psychology and computational
> visualistics, but the RGB vs. CMY stuff (additive and subtractive
> color combination) was part of the basal school education in the
> GDR.


You got me there, man.  I took plenty of psych courses over the
years, but nothing involving computation.  Congrats.


> 
> 
> 
> >  the
> > quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of
> > typeface or background.
> 
> I really applaud this attitude. You won't find them very often
> across the web, sadly, because "style is more important than content".
> I've seen things, man, ...
> 

Hm. About the only time form/style can top function/contact,
IMHO, is when you're being forced to watch a very nicely 
stylized ad.  {On the web.}  I've seen a couple.  O/wise, the way
a piece works wins.  I listened to an interview on NPR several
months ago who said that, "I think of people who don't watch web
advertisement as thieves," or sometime similar.  Isn't a primary
function of the web to allow *us* to control what we see? 


> 
> 
> >  But this is an interesting side-bar.
> 
> It's a very important topic to know about when you're doing DTP
> stuff. Exact color calibration is very important in this field.
> So you can understand why there's still a niche market for quality
> CRT monitors and quality printing devices. Of course, color
> temperatures and other settings like contrast and brightness
> are to be considered, too.
> 

Sure, but I'll happy leave this niche to people more qualified.
I'm below the bottom/barrel here.

> 
> 
> > Really!  So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an
> > off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 33;
> > or whatever 66 is.  Still experimenting.
> 
> it's very individual how colors are percepted. If someone with
> deuteranopia looks at certain color combinations where others
> may say: "Looks good!", they could say: "I don't see text there."
> 
> At least for printed material, black on white is good, and it
> even can be used for projection media (beamer).


i May be off on this one, but I'm seeing more dark grays on my
ink+paper journals.  Hard to tell since with the years sight
loses sharpness as our lenses become sclerotic and full of gunk.
Which all goes back to the original point:: what's the best
--oh, no-- what *are* the best combinations of off-white and
darkgray, bluegray, or almost-black-bluegray?

> 
> When I was at university, some guys put up a presentation with
> black text on dark bluie background, 10pt serife font. Bah!
> Unreadable in the last row.

didn't i mumble something like this above?  25 years ago my eyes
were much better, but not That much.  i hope someone complained
... seriously.

> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Polytropon
> From Magdeburg, Germany
> Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
> Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

-- 
 Gary Kline  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.thought.org  Public Serv

Re: which gray is best for print?

[cpghost]

On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 10:38:45AM -0700, Kent wrote:
> But the ability of people to read it is an important consideration. I hate 
> those web pages with dark backgrounds that I have to use the mouse to select 
> the text so that I can read it. I am a speed reader and basically see words 
> as images. Dark backgrounds strain my eyes and I can't read as fast as I can 
> with dark text on light backgrounds. I get bored really fast when I start 
> reading at 150-200 wpm instead of my normal 700-1200 wpm.
>

(...)

> IIRC, dyslexics have a much harder time reading when the background is dark.
> 
> Kent

That's really interesting! ... But everyone's different:

Personally, I really dislike pure white backgrounds on light-emitting
surfaces. When reading from a physical book, white is the best background,
but when reading it from a CRT or LCD, it hurts my eyes very fast up to a
point where I start to get a headache and have to stop after 10 to 20
minutes. That's why I usually use a user-specific CSS to override that
pure-white background and change it to light grey. I even wrote a little
transparent web proxy many years ago, that would rewrite HTML back in the
days when CSS was not yet as popular, just to grey-ish this hurting white
background.

Of course, the ideal solution would be to offer visitors switchable or
even freely-configurable color themes to satisfy everyone's tastes and
preferences. But the issue is then still that of the default theme would
usually still be (sadly IMHO, luckily in most other peoples' mind) pure
white background... so it's still 'user-specific CSS' for new websites.

-cpghost.

-- 
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[cpghost]

On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 03:17:25PM +0200, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> >>> To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy.
> > 
> > I may be wrong, but no one ever read a long block of text because of the 
> > color of the font. A better way to prevent boredom is to write 
> > interesting text!
> 
> And do not make the mistake of putting your long block of interesting 
> text on the web! Very few people (if any) will be reading it. You can 
> read a book like that but not a web content. Break down your text into 
> manageble chunks (two, three paragrahs at most) and link them 
> appropriately.

But do also provide a 1-page version with a sensible print medium CSS
(or even a nicely formatted PDF), so that users can create a hard copy
version with a minimun of fuss and clicks.

-cpghost.

-- 
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Wojciech Puchar]

How do you have your digital camera set to color correct for white? Your eyes


the simplest method to check if your monitor reproduces colors exactly is 
to display some photo from digital camera and make photo of the screen, 
then cut out the image part from photo and display near the first. should 
look the same.


for my CRT monitor, with setting gamma correction right i'm able to do it.
with LCD - i don't ...
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Kent]

On Friday 05 September 2008 08:36:45 pm Gary Kline wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 10:38:59PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> > On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:06:01 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >   I'm still open to the bg color.  The display white is not true,
> > >   paper-white.  Anyway, pretty sure the ink+paper publishers have
> > >   their own [[ BETTER ]] ideas.  I'm looking for what looks good on
> > >   the web.
> >
> > You can't look at the Web, you're looking at a monitor or at a sheet
> > of paper. :-) The same color may look different on
> > * a CRT type monitor
> > * a LCD type monitor
> > * a hardcopy done by a color laser printer
> > * a hardcopy done by a color ink pee printer
> > * ...
>
>   So you're saying that the "white" on my [monster] CRT is not the
>   same as on a future LCD Display?  rats:)  --I can't see much
>   difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it
>   wasn't a main concern ... .

How do you have your digital camera set to color correct for white? Your eyes 
automatically compensate. Look at a photo taken in tungsten light, without 
automatic white balance turned on and then, view it or print it in raw mode 
so that you see the real world and then, compare it with what you saw.

Most monitors have a color temperature setting, which determines how the 
displayed colors are shifted. IIRC, our eyes peak at 5500 (a yellow green??), 
which is the color temperature of the sun.

>
> > This is due to the nature that these devices use different color
> > spaces (RGB, composed additively, CMY, composed negatively), and
> > most of them even aren't calibrated. GRB and CMY are parts of the
> > CIE specified space (see CIE diagram), but they don't have all the
> > colors in common. There are colors you can show on a CRT, but you
> > cannot print them 1:1.
>
>   I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got
>   far into optics.  And certainly, nothing like *this*.  the
>   quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of
>   typeface or background.  But this is an interesting side-bar.

But the ability of people to read it is an important consideration. I hate 
those web pages with dark backgrounds that I have to use the mouse to select 
the text so that I can read it. I am a speed reader and basically see words 
as images. Dark backgrounds strain my eyes and I can't read as fast as I can 
with dark text on light backgrounds. I get bored really fast when I start 
reading at 150-200 wpm instead of my normal 700-1200 wpm.

>
> > Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - looks boring
> > on the web, and it stresses your eyes (too much light reflected /
> > emitted). Furthermore, if you select a dark color for the background,
> > LCD type monitors (that have a minimal light emission even if the
> > color is pure black) may look too light, while a CRT type monitor
> > may display the color as dark as you intended (because when it's
> > black, the CRT does not emit any light, unless, of course, the
> > base brightness is needlessly adjusted above the zero point).
> >
> > So much for physics, kids. :-)
>
>   Really!  So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an
>   off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 33;
>   or whatever 66 is.  Still experimenting.
>

IIRC, dyslexics have a much harder time reading when the background is dark.

Kent
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Zbigniew Szalbot]

Hi there,


To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy.


I may be wrong, but no one ever read a long block of text because of the 
color of the font. A better way to prevent boredom is to write 
interesting text!


And do not make the mistake of putting your long block of interesting 
text on the web! Very few people (if any) will be reading it. You can 
read a book like that but not a web content. Break down your text into 
manageble chunks (two, three paragrahs at most) and link them 
appropriately.


HTH

--
Zbigniew Szalbot
www.LCWords.com


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: which gray is best for print?

[John Almberg]

On Sep 3, 2008, at 7:14 PM, Gary Kline wrote:
This is for any webmaster types:  which color gray (in hex,  
"#xx")
is best for a site that has probably very long articles?  I've  
googled

around and found various grays such as "#696969" or "#708090", but I
haven't found anything that really fits what I want.  URL, anybody?
Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't  
found

anything in ports/x11 or ports/www.



Black on white is best for readability. No question about that. See  
various usability studies by Jakob Nielsen & others.


Dark blue on white (very dark blue) is not as good, but better than  
the other alternatives.


No reason to choose any other combination, unless you choose to go  
with 'style' over usability. But since you specifically asked about  
long blocks of text, I'd guess usability is at the top of your agenda.


No need to use web safe colors anymore, in my opinion. Hardly anyone  
uses 256 color cards at this stage of the game. Again, see the many  
studies of hardware usage, or your own web logs.


I'm reading this email with black on white, and you probably are too.  
There's a good reason for that, I think!


To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be  
besy.


I may be wrong, but no one ever read a long block of text because of  
the color of the font. A better way to prevent boredom is to write  
interesting text!


Just my two cents.

-- John


tia,

gary



--
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Service Unix

http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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Websites for On-line Collectible Dealers

Identry, LLC
John Almberg
(631) 546-5079
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.identry.com



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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 20:36:45 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   So you're saying that the "white" on my [monster] CRT is not the
>   same as on a future LCD Display?  rats:)  

Exactly. And compare the "black", too, best way to differentiate
with CRT and LCD side by side with a fullscreen color "black".



> --I can't see much
>   difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it
>   wasn't a main concern ... .

Human perception is another thing. Just because *I* can't notice
something, it doesn't imply that (1) others can't and (2) it isn't
there. In order to make a human person *feel* the change of a
sensory input is linear (e. g. the light intensity increases), you
need to increase the actual input in a logarithmic way.

http://www.neuro.uu.se/fysiologi/gu/nbb/lectures/WebFech.html



>   I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got
>   far into optics.

Physics comes in 5 quarters? 5 * 0.25 = 1.25... :-)



>  And certainly, nothing like *this*.

I learned about this when I studied psychology and computational
visualistics, but the RGB vs. CMY stuff (additive and subtractive
color combination) was part of the basal school education in the
GDR.



>  the
>   quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of
>   typeface or background.

I really applaud this attitude. You won't find them very often
across the web, sadly, because "style is more important than content".
I've seen things, man, ...



>  But this is an interesting side-bar.

It's a very important topic to know about when you're doing DTP
stuff. Exact color calibration is very important in this field.
So you can understand why there's still a niche market for quality
CRT monitors and quality printing devices. Of course, color
temperatures and other settings like contrast and brightness
are to be considered, too.



>   Really!  So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an
>   off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 33;
>   or whatever 66 is.  Still experimenting.

it's very individual how colors are percepted. If someone with
deuteranopia looks at certain color combinations where others
may say: "Looks good!", they could say: "I don't see text there."

At least for printed material, black on white is good, and it
even can be used for projection media (beamer).

When I was at university, some guys put up a presentation with
black text on dark bluie background, 10pt serife font. Bah!
Unreadable in the last row.



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[perryh]

> So you're saying that the "white" on my [monster] CRT is not the
> same as on a future LCD Display?  rats:)

Not only that, but your monster CRT probably doesn't match a smaller
CRT; and an old-ish CRT whose phosphors have aged (and whose focus
may have gotten a bit fuzzy) probably doesn't match a new, sharp
one.  Different LCDs may not match each other either, esp. if they
use different backlight technologies or if some of the backlights
-- or faceplates -- are subject to color shifts with age.

> > This is due to the nature that these devices use different color
> > spaces (RGB, composed additively, CMY, composed negatively), and
> > most of them even aren't calibrated ...
>
> I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got
> far into optics ...

and there's more involved than physics and optics anyway, e.g. the
neuropsychology of human visual perception.
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Gary Kline]

On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 10:38:59PM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:06:01 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm still open to the bg color.  The display white is not true,
> > paper-white.  Anyway, pretty sure the ink+paper publishers have
> > their own [[ BETTER ]] ideas.  I'm looking for what looks good on
> > the web.
> 
> You can't look at the Web, you're looking at a monitor or at a sheet
> of paper. :-) The same color may look different on
>   * a CRT type monitor
>   * a LCD type monitor
>   * a hardcopy done by a color laser printer
>   * a hardcopy done by a color ink pee printer
>   * ...


So you're saying that the "white" on my [monster] CRT is not the
same as on a future LCD Display?  rats:)  --I can't see much
difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it
wasn't a main concern ... .

> 
> This is due to the nature that these devices use different color
> spaces (RGB, composed additively, CMY, composed negatively), and
> most of them even aren't calibrated. GRB and CMY are parts of the
> CIE specified space (see CIE diagram), but they don't have all the
> colors in common. There are colors you can show on a CRT, but you
> cannot print them 1:1.


I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got
far into optics.  And certainly, nothing like *this*.  the
quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of
typeface or background.  But this is an interesting side-bar.

> 
> Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - looks boring
> on the web, and it stresses your eyes (too much light reflected /
> emitted). Furthermore, if you select a dark color for the background,
> LCD type monitors (that have a minimal light emission even if the
> color is pure black) may look too light, while a CRT type monitor
> may display the color as dark as you intended (because when it's
> black, the CRT does not emit any light, unless, of course, the
> base brightness is needlessly adjusted above the zero point).
> 
> So much for physics, kids. :-)
> 

Really!  So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an
off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 33;
or whatever 66 is.  Still experimenting.

> 
> -- 
> Polytropon
> From Magdeburg, Germany
> Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
> Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

-- 
 Gary Kline  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:06:01 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   I'm still open to the bg color.  The display white is not true,
>   paper-white.  Anyway, pretty sure the ink+paper publishers have
>   their own [[ BETTER ]] ideas.  I'm looking for what looks good on
>   the web.

You can't look at the Web, you're looking at a monitor or at a sheet
of paper. :-) The same color may look different on
* a CRT type monitor
* a LCD type monitor
* a hardcopy done by a color laser printer
* a hardcopy done by a color ink pee printer
* ...

This is due to the nature that these devices use different color
spaces (RGB, composed additively, CMY, composed negatively), and
most of them even aren't calibrated. GRB and CMY are parts of the
CIE specified space (see CIE diagram), but they don't have all the
colors in common. There are colors you can show on a CRT, but you
cannot print them 1:1.

Anyway, the best reading contrast - black on white - looks boring
on the web, and it stresses your eyes (too much light reflected /
emitted). Furthermore, if you select a dark color for the background,
LCD type monitors (that have a minimal light emission even if the
color is pure black) may look too light, while a CRT type monitor
may display the color as dark as you intended (because when it's
black, the CRT does not emit any light, unless, of course, the
base brightness is needlessly adjusted above the zero point).

So much for physics, kids. :-)


-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Gary Kline]

On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 06:08:04PM +0100, Frank Shute wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 04:14:42PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
> >
> > This is for any webmaster types:  which color gray (in hex, "#xx")
> > is best for a site that has probably very long articles?  I've googled
> > around and found various grays such as "#696969" or "#708090", but I
> > haven't found anything that really fits what I want.  URL, anybody?
> > Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found
> > anything in ports/x11 or ports/www.
> > 
> > To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy.
> > 
> > tia,
> > 
> > gary
> 
> I can't tell you which grey is most suitable but I can tell you how I
> go about choosing a colour.
> 
> Install: x11/rgb
> 
> Then:
> 
> $ showrgb | less
> 
> will give you the names of the 256 websafe colours and their rgb
> values.
> 
> I usually check out the colours by:
> 
> $ xterm -bg DarkSalmon
> 
> etc.
> 
> Alternatively, you can use css and set an html pages bg properties:
> 
> 
> body{
> background-color: rgb(233,150,122);
> }
> 
> 
> & view it in your browser.
> 
> -- 
> 
>  Frank 


Thanks for this.  I'll check it out when I'm less crushed!  Just
one note to the list (in case anybody else it looking for
attractive/fitting #xx codes): dark, black-ish blue #33
is very good and pleasant on the eyes; #66 even more so.

I'm still open to the bg color.  The display white is not true,
paper-white.  Anyway, pretty sure the ink+paper publishers have
their own [[ BETTER ]] ideas.  I'm looking for what looks good on
the web.

gary


> 
> 
>  Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html 
> 

-- 
 Gary Kline  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Frank Shute]

On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 04:14:42PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
>
> This is for any webmaster types:  which color gray (in hex, "#xx")
> is best for a site that has probably very long articles?  I've googled
> around and found various grays such as "#696969" or "#708090", but I
> haven't found anything that really fits what I want.  URL, anybody?
> Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found
> anything in ports/x11 or ports/www.
> 
> To prevent boredom, two shades of deep gray or blue-gray would be besy.
> 
> tia,
> 
> gary

I can't tell you which grey is most suitable but I can tell you how I
go about choosing a colour.

Install: x11/rgb

Then:

$ showrgb | less

will give you the names of the 256 websafe colours and their rgb
values.

I usually check out the colours by:

$ xterm -bg DarkSalmon

etc.

Alternatively, you can use css and set an html pages bg properties:


body{
background-color: rgb(233,150,122);
}


& view it in your browser.

-- 

 Frank 


 Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html 

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RE: which gray is best for print?

[Bob McConnell]

On Behalf Of Gary Kline
> On Wed September 3 2008 16:26:07 Polytropon wrote:
> > On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:14:42 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > > Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't
found
> > > anything in ports/x11 or ports/www.
> > 
> > You may check /usr/ports/x11/xcolorsel, allthough I prefer the
> > color choosing dialog of Gimp which provides a hex readout of
> > the selected color, as well as the RGB or CMY values (last one
> > interesting if you want to print something).
> 
> Yeah, you were right about the xcolorsel being less useful than the
GIMP.  I 
> typed in "66" and found others that were as nice.  Then found a 
> december.com site with more info.  "33" is a named and safe color
or ink.
> 
> Still more to back and look at, read up on. 

W3Schools has some color charts at
 that could be useful. They built
a chart that shows which colors most browsers can understand. They also
have some grey scale charts at the end of their advanced HTML tutorial.

Bob McConnell
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Gary Kline]

On Wed September 3 2008 16:26:07 Polytropon wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:14:42 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found
> > anything in ports/x11 or ports/www.
>
> You may check /usr/ports/x11/xcolorsel, allthough I prefer the
> color choosing dialog of Gimp which provides a hex readout of
> the selected color, as well as the RGB or CMY values (last one
> interesting if you want to print something).

Yeah, you were right about the xcolorsel being less useful than the GIMP.  I 
typed in "66" and found others that were as nice.  Then found a 
december.com site with more info.  "33" is a named and safe color or ink.

Still more to back and look at, read up on. 

dank sehr viel!  [i hope:)]



-- 
Gary Kline  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org
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Re: which gray is best for print?

[Polytropon]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 16:14:42 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Or if there is a color-chooser in ports, that too, altho I haven't found
> anything in ports/x11 or ports/www.

You may check /usr/ports/x11/xcolorsel, allthough I prefer the
color choosing dialog of Gimp which provides a hex readout of
the selected color, as well as the RGB or CMY values (last one
interesting if you want to print something).


-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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