Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
On Thursday 31 May 2012 11:06:24 Thomas Mueller wrote: > I contacted my Internet service provider, Insight Cable, about the problem, > and they need a copy of any message that bounces, so they can see what went > awry. I had the same problem a while ago with my ISP (Plusnet). Standard response from front line support is to say you need to send a copy of the message that you never had. Eventually I diverted my questions@ mail to a server that I had control of and relayed the messages from there to my ISP account so I could monitor the logs. The spam was being rejected with "552 Spam Message Rejected" and no information was returned to identify the email. Most of the rejected mail was spam but there were a small number of false positives. When I managed to get past the ISP's front line support they removed the addresses for the false positives from the blacklist but this is only a temporary fix since more addresses keep wrongly finding heir way onto the list over time, though they do eventually drop off it again. Plusnet use Cloudmark spam filtering and I see from the OP's headers that Insight also use Cloudmark so I'd expect similar things are happening there. I was able to stop the bounces by adding freebsd.org to the whitelist on my ISP account - but with the downside of seeing more spam on the list. -- Mike Clarke ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
> freebsd-questions-owner@... is correct, except that to my knowledge > there isn't really a moderator for freebsd-questions (it's an open list > that anyone can post to without having to be a member) and that address > ultimately gets dealt with by postmas...@freebsd.org. > The message you got about "held for moderation" is standard boiler-plate > from mailman, and probably not appropriate for your specific circumstances. > On the whole though, you shouldn't need to contact anyone about the > warning you received. It generally occurs when your mail system > rejects messages from the freebsd-questions@... list as spam. As there > is a certain amount of spam that does appear on the list, this is an > absolutely legitimate practice: trouble is, it's hard for the FreeBSD > mail system to distinguish deliberate non-acceptance of spam from > accidental non-acceptance of traffic due to a broken mailer. > Mailman has an adaptive system that scores you based on how many rejects > you generate in a certain time period. If you log into mailman at eg. > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions > you can see your current score. Mine is currently 2.0 (out of 5.0) and > has been about that for quite some time. So long as your score is not > too large, I wouldn't worry about the message you received. Even if > your score does go over the threshold, you can just use that same > interface to re-enable delivery. > Cheers, > Matthew > Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. I contacted my Internet service provider, Insight Cable, about the problem, and they need a copy of any message that bounces, so they can see what went awry. So I can't just ignore the problem. Maybe I should resend the message to postmas...@freebsd.org instead of freebsd-questions-ow...@freebsd.org? This problem relates to FreeBSD emailing lists in general, not just one list such as questions@ . Now I see at http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo , If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact mail...@freebsd.org. There was also a line in the probe message : For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. So now the choice is between mail...@freebsd.org and postmas...@freebsd.org ; I sent to mailman. Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 30/05/2012 14:09, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >> If you log into mailman at eg. > >> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions > >> > you can see your current score. > > > I'm logged in there, > > A page with 2nd line=20 > > Julian H. Stacey's subscription status, password, and options for the = > freebsd-questions mailing list.=20 > >=20 > > I can't find any score. Where is it please ? > > Maybe it might not display if score might be at nill ?=20 > > (nothing bounced to me lately that I'm aware of). > > Hmmm... perhaps you haven't bounced anything from freebsd-questions@... > For me, the third bit of text on that page says: > > We have received some recent bounces from your address. Your > current bounce score is 2.0 out of a maximum of 5.0. Please double > check that your subscribed address is correct and that there are no > problems with delivery to this address. Your bounce score will be > automatically reset if the problems are corrected soon. > > Right above "Changing your freebsd-questions membership information." Ah, OK Thanks, nothing there for me, never happened to see any such message, I guess I've been lucky, nice feature though. I found the if clause here, line 159 of /usr/ports/mail/mailman/work/mailman-2.1.14/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py elif info and info.score > 0: # Provide information about their current bounce score. We know Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 417, Issue 4, Message: 26 On Wed, 30 May 2012 06:31:38 -0400 "Thomas Mueller" wrote: [Matthew Seaman wrote:] > > freebsd-questions-owner@... is correct, except that to my knowledge > > there isn't really a moderator for freebsd-questions (it's an open list > > that anyone can post to without having to be a member) and that address > > ultimately gets dealt with by postmas...@freebsd.org. 'Ultimately' being operative; I gather it rather depends on workload. It does sound a little odd that writing to freebsd-questions-owner@ is interpreted as mail to a subs-only list (moderators@), which may be well down the TODO queue of the postmaster@ team. > > The message you got about "held for moderation" is standard boiler-plate > > from mailman, and probably not appropriate for your specific circumstances. I think mentioning the whole circumstance to postmaster@, including the result of posting to freebsd-questions-owner@ could be worthwhile; I wouldn't suggest every little mail issue should go to postmaster@, but apart from Tom's immediate problem, there may be a functional issue. > > On the whole though, you shouldn't need to contact anyone about the > > warning you received. It generally occurs when your mail system > > rejects messages from the freebsd-questions@... list as spam. As there > > is a certain amount of spam that does appear on the list, this is an > > absolutely legitimate practice: trouble is, it's hard for the FreeBSD > > mail system to distinguish deliberate non-acceptance of spam from > > accidental non-acceptance of traffic due to a broken mailer. Indeed. Considering the number of lists and the number of subscribers, I think mailman (and spamassassin recipes) do a great job, though it's always going to be a battle chasing the latest spammer techniques; the recent spamruns with multiple 'From:' addresses being a case in point, not a pretty look seeing spam 'apparently' by FreeBSD committers .. > > Mailman has an adaptive system that scores you based on how many rejects > > you generate in a certain time period. If you log into mailman at eg. > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions > > you can see your current score. Mine is currently 2.0 (out of 5.0) and > > has been about that for quite some time. So long as your score is not > > too large, I wouldn't worry about the message you received. Even if > > your score does go over the threshold, you can just use that same > > interface to re-enable delivery. I hadn't checked for ages, but see my score is now 1.0, probably from a couple of days downtime last month ie delayed delivery. This would help Tom see if mailman 'knows' anything about his problem, but not what was happening to cause that? > I contacted my Internet service provider, Insight Cable, about the > problem, and they need a copy of any message that bounces, so they > can see what went awry. Bit strange asking you to provide copies of messages you didn't get :) Are they providing your inbound MX server, ie is that where your mail is received? I gather you're not running your own mailserver. It should not be hard to find any such bounces from/to mx2.freebsd.org in their mail or spam logs, if it was they who bounced them? If not, who did? > So I can't just ignore the problem. I rather suspect that even if each bounce is logged at freebsd.org (and it might be some task to find yours, beyond that they've been counted), that it could be non-trivial to locate the offending source messages. Not impossible, Message-IDs are likely logged, but last-resort stuff. OTOH this may be something postmaster@ does routinely, what do I know :) > Maybe I should resend the message to postmas...@freebsd.org instead > of freebsd-questions-ow...@freebsd.org? > > This problem relates to FreeBSD emailing lists in general, not just > one list such as questions@ . Yes, in this case I think you should, after exploring the options Matthew outlined. Be sure to show complete headers of any and all messages you need to forward to postmaster@. cheers, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
On 30/05/2012 14:09, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> If you log into mailman at eg. >> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions >> > you can see your current score. > I'm logged in there, > A page with 2nd line > Julian H. Stacey's subscription status, password, and options for the > freebsd-questions mailing list. > > I can't find any score. Where is it please ? > Maybe it might not display if score might be at nill ? > (nothing bounced to me lately that I'm aware of). Hmmm... perhaps you haven't bounced anything from freebsd-questions@... For me, the third bit of text on that page says: We have received some recent bounces from your address. Your current bounce score is 2.0 out of a maximum of 5.0. Please double check that your subscribed address is correct and that there are no problems with delivery to this address. Your bounce score will be automatically reset if the problems are corrected soon. Right above "Changing your freebsd-questions membership information." Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
Hi Matthew cc questions@ & "Thomas Mueller" > Mailman has an adaptive system that scores you based on how many rejects > you generate in a certain time period. I didn't know that, nice :-) > If you log into mailman at eg. > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions > you can see your current score. I'm logged in there, A page with 2nd line Julian H. Stacey's subscription status, password, and options for the freebsd-questions mailing list. I can't find any score. Where is it please ? Maybe it might not display if score might be at nill ? (nothing bounced to me lately that I'm aware of). PS the majordomo example I quoted: > which suggests > xxx-owner is preferred (at least by majordomo author, > which chronologicaly preceeded mailman), not owner-xxx. Is not that good an example, as further down in /usr/ports/mail/majordomo/files/aliases.majordomo it flips to the opposite convention, & there's samples for lists of form owner-xxx Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
Hi Tom + questions@
"Thomas Mueller" wrote:
> When a list member has problems with the list that require contacting a human
> list owner/operator, what is the address to send to?
>
> I received a probe message regarding messages to me that bounced, might have
> been spams that slipped by the list's filters.
Spammers were also masquerading as me & others recently, I saw the
mailman robot automaticaly refers to the masqueraded innocent.
Happily the spam never got to the (other freebsd) list.
> I was advised in the message that the address was
> freebsd-questions-ow...@freebsd.org, and I sent my message to that address,
> got back a message from
>
> owner-moderat...@freebsd.org with the subject
>
> Your message to moderators awaits moderator approval
>
> Quoting the message,
>
> Your mail to 'moderators' with the subject
>
> Re: freebsd-questions mailing list probe message
>
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
>
> The reason it is being held:
>
> Post by non-member to a members-only list
Until [at least] recently questions@ was not a members-only list
I know as I asked for it be to changed to that, but was declined,
http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/FreeBSD/src/gen/etc/motd.REL=8.2-RELEASE.diff
I suspect questions@ is still not members-only,
I guess it's just common text or file copied & a message common
to both { bounces from members-only lists, And cases where eg on
questions@, a failing header check detects something dodgy, eg does
not match sender & user asserted From: line }.
> Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
> notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel
> this posting, please visit the following URL:
>
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/confirm/moderators/693387b I jhs@
> deliberately broke this URL, you dont want any robot scanning an archive or
> mail reader or human clicking it fce42bd3639754d5b2b906e4ad6ce4bcf
>
>
> PLEASE NOTE! If you would like to post freely to the list, please
> subscribe first. If you post from multiple addresses, you can
> subscribe each address and go into the options page and select 'no
> mail' for all but one address. This will allow you to post without
> delay in the future.
>
> Sorry for the hassle, but certain immature people made this necessary.
>
> (end of quote)
mailman might be misconfigured, (or mis-designed?)
not sending an exactly appropriate message (I think Ive seen similar before)?
Still, it's a message not too far off, telling you list owners will look at it.
> So did I post to the wrong address, were the instructions in error regarding
> freebsd-questions-ow...@freebsd.org?
The address looks good, this page
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/admin/freebsd-questions
also lists that address, (in firefox put mouse over word "moderators" & see
at bottom left of firefox (or see source of course :-) )
freebsd-questions-ow...@freebsd.org
> Should that have been owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org ?
Probably not, It might possibly also exist on @freebsd.org as an alias.
Per
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-test
has a URL to
freebsd-test-ow...@freebsd.org
You could try
owner-freebsd-t...@freebsd.org
BTW /usr/ports/mail/majordomo/files/aliases.majordomo reccomends
an /etc/mail/aliases:
owner-majordomo: majordomo-owner
(additional to the real:
majordomo-owner: human-or-Postmaster
)
which suggests
xxx-owner is preferred (at least by majordomo author,
which chronologicaly preceeded mailman), not owner-xxx.
Cheers,
Julian
--
Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ".
Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable.
Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/
___
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Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
> freebsd-questions-owner@... is correct, except that to my knowledge > there isn't really a moderator for freebsd-questions (it's an open list > that anyone can post to without having to be a member) and that address > ultimately gets dealt with by postmas...@freebsd.org. > The message you got about "held for moderation" is standard boiler-plate > from mailman, and probably not appropriate for your specific circumstances. > On the whole though, you shouldn't need to contact anyone about the > warning you received. It generally occurs when your mail system > rejects messages from the freebsd-questions@... list as spam. As there > is a certain amount of spam that does appear on the list, this is an > absolutely legitimate practice: trouble is, it's hard for the FreeBSD > mail system to distinguish deliberate non-acceptance of spam from > accidental non-acceptance of traffic due to a broken mailer. > Mailman has an adaptive system that scores you based on how many rejects > you generate in a certain time period. If you log into mailman at eg. > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions > you can see your current score. Mine is currently 2.0 (out of 5.0) and > has been about that for quite some time. So long as your score is not > too large, I wouldn't worry about the message you received. Even if > your score does go over the threshold, you can just use that same > interface to re-enable delivery. > Cheers, > Matthew > Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. I contacted my Internet service provider, Insight Cable, about the problem, and they need a copy of any message that bounces, so they can see what went awry. So I can't just ignore the problem. Maybe I should resend the message to postmas...@freebsd.org instead of freebsd-questions-ow...@freebsd.org? This problem relates to FreeBSD emailing lists in general, not just one list such as questions@ . Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
Hello. 2012/05/30 10:29:18 +0100 Matthew Seaman => To Thomas Mueller : MS> On 30/05/2012 10:07, Thomas Mueller wrote: MS> The message you got about "held for moderation" is standard boiler-plate MS> from mailman, and probably not appropriate for your specific circumstances. Anyway that message should mean that there is a closed and hidden mailing list moderat...@freebsd.org and it's the where the TM's message was redirected? -- Peter Vereshagin (http://vereshagin.org) pgp: A0E26627 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Address to reach human operator regarding problems with list?
On 30/05/2012 10:07, Thomas Mueller wrote: > When a list member has problems with the list that require contacting > a human list owner/operator, what is the address to send to? > > I received a probe message regarding messages to me that bounced, > might have been spams that slipped by the list's filters. > > I was advised in the message that the address was > freebsd-questions-ow...@freebsd.org freebsd-questions-owner@... is correct, except that to my knowledge there isn't really a moderator for freebsd-questions (it's an open list that anyone can post to without having to be a member) and that address ultimately gets dealt with by postmas...@freebsd.org. The message you got about "held for moderation" is standard boiler-plate from mailman, and probably not appropriate for your specific circumstances. On the whole though, you shouldn't need to contact anyone about the warning you received. It generally occurs when your mail system rejects messages from the freebsd-questions@... list as spam. As there is a certain amount of spam that does appear on the list, this is an absolutely legitimate practice: trouble is, it's hard for the FreeBSD mail system to distinguish deliberate non-acceptance of spam from accidental non-acceptance of traffic due to a broken mailer. Mailman has an adaptive system that scores you based on how many rejects you generate in a certain time period. If you log into mailman at eg. http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions you can see your current score. Mine is currently 2.0 (out of 5.0) and has been about that for quite some time. So long as your score is not too large, I wouldn't worry about the message you received. Even if your score does go over the threshold, you can just use that same interface to re-enable delivery. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
