Re: FreeBSD starter machine
Pietro Cerutti wrote: On 12/13/05, Chris Whitehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A way to use your current machine for both operating systems without dual booting is to install a second hard disk, install FreeBSD and select which to boot from in the bios. It's a slight faff changing boot disk but works fine and keeps the OS's completely separate. Could you please tell me the problems which could rise using dual boot? I really can't imagine any, since the two (or more) OSes are on different slices, and can't interfere which each other in any way. Decide to redo the play machine when too tired, fdisk the wrong slice... As a newbie not understand which slice to fdisk... It was really in response to OP being 'not keen about running dual OS's' I have to run windows for work and sharing a play machine with a must be working machine doesn't seem as safe on a dual boot setup as two separate disks. You can even unplug the other disk to avoid mistakes. Just my choice. Chris Thanx, -- Pietro Cerutti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beansidhe - SwiSS Death / Thrash Metal www.beansidhe.ch Windows: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FW: RE: FreeBSD starter machine...
Message: 16 Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:07:44 -0800 (PST) From: Matt S. Gann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FreeBSD starter machine To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1. I have a few questions about FreeBSD. I am just beginning to get into UNIX. I know a few line commands, but really want to get familiar and comfortable with the OS. I have been intrugued by FreeBSD for many years now, but I own a windows-based PC and am not keen about running dual OS's. I would like to get a cheap, used, small desktop or laptop to tinker with Unix/Linix and FreeBSD. However, I know little to nothing about system requirements and/or hardware compability. I was thinking of an old 486 or Pentium 1 to get started. Any thoughts on what I could start with? Sincerely, Matt S. Gann In the past I've run 4.6 on a P1 133mhz with 64MB RAM and a 3GB disk. More recently I was running 5.3 on a Thinkpad 600e PII 333mhz with 160MB RAM and 2GB slice within the disk (until the hardware died). Although the OS ran fine on both of these there are limitations. You'd probably need to steer clear of the more 'newbie' friendly window managers such as Gnome or KDE (both the above ran Fluxbox handily to save on both speed and diskspace), and that may effect the required learning curve. You could also forget running OpenOffice or Firefox. My own current desktop (running 6.0-RELEASE) is based on an Athlon XP 1800+ with 256MB RAM and 10GB slice on the disk, and it doesn't leave me with so many limitations on what I can run. My guess is you could pick something with a similar spec up very cheaply so I'd probably be thinking around the 1ghz + CPU with reasonable RAM and disk as a starting point. HTH. Peter. Peter Harrison ** This document is strictly confidential and is intended only for use by the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or other action taken in reliance of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the Department for Work and Pensions. If you have received this transmission in error, please use the reply function to tell us and then permanently delete what you have received. Please note: Incoming and outgoing e-mail messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications. ** The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: RE: FreeBSD starter machine...
In the past I've run 4.6 on a P1 133mhz with 64MB RAM and a 3GB disk. More recently I was running 5.3 on a Thinkpad 600e PII 333mhz with 160MB RAM and 2GB slice within the disk (until the hardware died). Although the OS ran fine on both of these there are limitations. You'd probably need to steer clear of the more 'newbie' friendly window managers such as Gnome or KDE (both the above ran Fluxbox handily to save on both speed and diskspace), and that may effect the required learning curve. I'm running 4.8 on a 486dx2 50MHz with 32MB RAM and 20GB disk. It's slow as h***, but it works. It's running fluxbox, but most of the time, I don't use X11 at all. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD starter machine
Matt S. Gann wrote: I have a few questions about FreeBSD. I am just beginning to get into UNIX. I know a few line commands, but really want to get familiar and comfortable with the OS. I have been intrugued by FreeBSD for many years now, but I own a windows-based PC and am not keen about running dual OS's. I would like to get a cheap, used, small desktop or laptop to tinker with Unix/Linix and FreeBSD. However, I know little to nothing about system requirements and/or hardware compability. I was thinking of an old 486 or Pentium 1 to get started. Any thoughts on what I could start with? A way to use your current machine for both operating systems without dual booting is to install a second hard disk, install FreeBSD and select which to boot from in the bios. It's a slight faff changing boot disk but works fine and keeps the OS's completely separate. OT; I still have a PC I made with three HD's plugged in to a home made ide cable with an extra connector and a three position switch on the front which switches power to only one disk. All three disks are effectively primary master so whichever has power when the computer is turned on boots. I never had the courage to switch while the computer was running! Whichever way you go FreeBSD is a very rewarding OS. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD starter machine
On 12/13/05, Chris Whitehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A way to use your current machine for both operating systems without dual booting is to install a second hard disk, install FreeBSD and select which to boot from in the bios. It's a slight faff changing boot disk but works fine and keeps the OS's completely separate. Could you please tell me the problems which could rise using dual boot? I really can't imagine any, since the two (or more) OSes are on different slices, and can't interfere which each other in any way. Thanx, -- Pietro Cerutti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beansidhe - SwiSS Death / Thrash Metal www.beansidhe.ch Windows: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD starter machine
On 12/13/05, Chris Whitehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A way to use your current machine for both operating systems without dual booting is to install a second hard disk, install FreeBSD and select which to boot from in the bios. It's a slight faff changing boot disk but works fine and keeps the OS's completely separate. Could you please tell me the problems which could rise using dual boot? I really can't imagine any, since the two (or more) OSes are on different slices, and can't interfere which each other in any way. You are right. I have had no problems at all. The only problem might come if you want to read/write the other slice from the FreeBSD slice and that is a matter of getting the stuff correctly specified - except FreeBSD can only read but not write NTFS type file systems. It can both read and write other MS filesystems. The only other controversey is over which MBR to use. I get along just fine using the plain MBR that comes with FreeBSD, but some folk can't handle their MS bootable NTFS slice being labeled ??? (entirely appropriate as I see it...) and they have to plug in some other MBR such as Grub so they can specify their own labels. Do whichever you want. It all works well. jerry Thanx, -- Pietro Cerutti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Beansidhe - SwiSS Death / Thrash Metal www.beansidhe.ch Windows: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FreeBSD starter machine
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pietro Cerutti Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 3:56 PM To: Chris Whitehouse; FreeBSD Subject: Re: FreeBSD starter machine On 12/13/05, Chris Whitehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A way to use your current machine for both operating systems without dual booting is to install a second hard disk, install FreeBSD and select which to boot from in the bios. It's a slight faff changing boot disk but works fine and keeps the OS's completely separate. Could you please tell me the problems which could rise using dual boot? I really can't imagine any, since the two (or more) OSes are on different slices, and can't interfere which each other in any way. One disadvantage to dual boot is that you can't get one OS to talk to the other over the net. This disadvantage is shared by the above idea. You can, however, transfer files via a shared file system, and this is worth learning. Of course, a special case is to share files via CD, floppy, jump drive, etc. If you are not careful you can mess up your boot block. Windows will do this for you without asking permission! This is easily repaired, however. While switching boot disk in the BIOS works, if you've gone to the trouble to mount a second disk and load FreeBSD on it, I'd recommend just installing the FreeBSD boot loader. In the installation process, just say yes to that question, and you're set! Other boot loaders have their proponents. Grub seems to be very popular. As unfriendly as it is, even the NT boot loader can be made to work (I think the Handbook has a section on this). -gayn Bristol Systems Inc. 714/532-6776 www.bristolsystems.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD starter machine
On Monday 12 December 2005 02:19 pm, Chris Whitehouse wrote: Matt S. Gann wrote: I have a few questions about FreeBSD. I am just beginning to get into UNIX. I know a few line commands, but really want to get familiar and comfortable with the OS. I have been intrugued by FreeBSD for many years now, but I own a windows-based PC and am not keen about running dual OS's. I would like to get a cheap, used, small desktop or laptop to tinker with Unix/Linix and FreeBSD. However, I know little to nothing about system requirements and/or hardware compability. I was thinking of an old 486 or Pentium 1 to get started. Any thoughts on what I could start with? Although you can run FreeBSD on a 486 I wouldn't recommend it. Rebuilding the system from sources took two full days. Also if you plan to run X and something like KDE you will find it painfully slow. One of my boxes is a 500MHz Celeron which is quite usable. If you have a reasonably fast box I concur with just adding a second drive. You can always mount your windows drive and copy files into FreeBSD. Except for some proprietary apps you will find plenty of software in the FreeBSD ports to do just about anything you can do in windows. A way to use your current machine for both operating systems without dual booting is to install a second hard disk, install FreeBSD and select which to boot from in the bios. It's a slight faff changing boot disk but works fine and keeps the OS's completely separate. OT; I still have a PC I made with three HD's plugged in to a home made ide cable with an extra connector and a three position switch on the front which switches power to only one disk. All three disks are effectively primary master so whichever has power when the computer is turned on boots. I never had the courage to switch while the computer was running! Whichever way you go FreeBSD is a very rewarding OS. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --- Beech Rintoul - System Administrator - [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | NorthWind Communications \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | 201 East 9th Avenue Ste.310 X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Anchorage, AK 99501 / \ - Please visit Alaska Paradise - http://akparadise.byethost33.com --- pgpQ7BOPLVUfV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD starter machine
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005, Matt S. Gann wrote: I have a few questions about FreeBSD. I am just beginning to get into UNIX. I know a few line commands, but really want to get familiar and comfortable with the OS. I have been intrugued by FreeBSD for many years now, but I own a windows-based PC and am not keen about running dual OS's. I would like to get a cheap, used, small desktop or laptop to tinker with Unix/Linix and FreeBSD. However, I know little to nothing about system requirements and/or hardware compability. I was thinking of an old 486 or Pentium 1 to get started. Any thoughts on what I could start with? Please press Return (or Enter) every once in a while. Your message was one long line. As for the question, I think you'd want a relatively modern machine to start with; in your example, I'd go with the Pentium over the 486. But either one might give you grief. I've had problems installing late model FreeBSD on truly ancient hardware, so I'd suggest you go with something that's not too long in the tooth. The website recommendations regarding CPU, RAM and disk space are really bare minima; in reality, you can't have too much of any of these, just as with any OS. Here's a comparison of extremes: I built my newest machine earlier this year with a 3.4GHz P4, 1GB of RAM and 160GB disk. My oldest machine dates from the late 1990s and has a 266MHz AMD K6-2, 32 MB of RAM, and 4GB of disk. The old machine works fine, but building anything is excruciatingly slow. I think you're right about not being keen about running dual OS's - I prefer to keep one OS per machine. Lots of people dual-boot with no problem, but it just doesn't feel right to me. Maybe it's a personal preference issue. Here's a thought: Since it's the holiday season, many retailers are offering deals on new computers. If your current Win* box is a few years old, how about upgrading to a new machine? Once your stuff is tranferred over, install FreeBSD on the old machine. At least you'll get known-good hardware (assuming everything worked before), and it will be somewhat modern since your current box is probably not more than three to five years old. Also, since the box is not brand-new, there's a good chance that the hardware is fully supported under FreeBSD - it sometimes takes a little time before the newest hardware is useable under FreeBSD, depending on what it is. Good luck, and welcome to sanity :^) -- Chris Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** [ Busy Expunging | ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FreeBSD starter machine
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt S. Gann Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:08 PM To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD starter machine I have a few questions about FreeBSD. I am just beginning to get into UNIX. I know a few line commands, but really want to get familiar and comfortable with the OS. I have been intrugued by FreeBSD for many years now, but I own a windows-based PC and am not keen about running dual OS's. I would like to get a cheap, used, small desktop or laptop to tinker with Unix/Linix and FreeBSD. However, I know little to nothing about system requirements and/or hardware compability. I was thinking of an old 486 or Pentium 1 to get started. Any thoughts on what I could start with? Dual booting works fine if you have some extra disk space (or an extra disk you can add.) If you want a separate PC, then don't use too old of a machine. While it is fun doing useful things on old systems, for your first unix system you don't want to spend too much time getting old hardware to work or repairing it when it dies. Your time is better spent learning the OS. Also, while I would recommend learning a unix system in command mode before bringing up a windowing system, if you want to learn unix windowing systems, then you are going to want a somewhat faster cpu with a decent video system. With a little looking around, you can probably get, at near zero cost, a PC that is 5 years old. That will put you in the 400Mhz+ range and any unix will be very happy with most configurations that you find on such a PC. I'd insist on a 100mbps NIC and a decent CDROM as well. Make sure the PC boots from the CDROM. (Try before you buy.) Not only is a unix installation easier when booting from a CD, but there are several handy CD based tools and diagnostics. I'd also look for a bigger box with a few spare PCI slots so that you can add stuff easily as you are learning. For $19 I bought a new 2-port Belkin KVM switch, which I use to switch between my MS-Windows PC and my other desktop, which I will soon upgrade from FreeBSD 5.4 to 6.0. This saves a lot of space on my desk, and switching between the two is just a couple keystrokes. You might consider it. It is especially handy when you are trying out different installations. For my FreeBSD servers, I use Putty to ssh into them from my Windows machine (and openssh from my FreeBSD machines.) The key thing is to make it easy to access your unix system(s) so that you learn faster. Have fun! -gayn Bristol Systems Inc. 714/532-6776 www.bristolsystems.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD starter machine
Chris Hill writes: Here's a thought: Since it's the holiday season, many retailers are offering deals on new computers. If your current Win* box is a few years old, how about upgrading to a new machine? Or find a friend who's upgrading, and offer them a reasonable price for their old machine. Pentiums in the mid 1 ghz range are disgustingly cheap. Some thoughts: 1) _Big_ disk. Even for a training machine, an installation with the source tree and X will run larger than you think. 2) Memory. At least 256M, and 512M if you can get it. 3) Unless you're planning on replacing it anyway, check the ethernet card. Some older cards are notorious for poor performance; search the mailing list archives for discussions. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD starter machine
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:07:44 -0800 (PST) Matt S. Gann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a few questions about FreeBSD. I am just beginning to get into UNIX. I know a few line commands, but really want to get familiar and comfortable with the OS. I have been intrugued by FreeBSD for many years now, but I own a windows-based PC and am not keen about running dual OS's. I would like to get a cheap, used, small desktop or laptop to tinker with Unix/Linix and FreeBSD. However, I know little to nothing about system requirements and/or hardware compability. I was thinking of an old 486 or Pentium 1 to get started. Any thoughts on what I could start with? Sincerely, Matt S. Gann I've had no problems installing FreeBSD on old Pentiums. I also have a Dell Inspiron 8100 (laptop) that dual boots Windows XP and FreeBSD 5- STABLE. The problem with old equipment is that it will be slow. Whether your using a resource intensive desktop environment such as KDE or learning to customize the kernel, you'll want a bit of speed and a bit more of RAM. If you go with an old system, try to max out the motherboard's RAM. Once you're happy with FreeBSD on old equipment, you'll get the itch to see what it can do on really good hardware. I'm currently installing FreeBSD 6.0 on a Pentium II 333 with 128MB RAM for my grandson. To help compensate for the system's limitations, I've installed a light weight window manager. It's in situations like this that you see real benefits to having choices in software. Good luck (and welcome to sanity)! Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
