Re: 8.4-RELEASE (was Re: svn & new pkg system)
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 23:52+0100, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > Speaking of 9.2, are there any plans for a 8.4 ? http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=248213 -- +---++ | Vennlig hilsen, | Best regards, | | Trond Endrestøl, | Trond Endrestøl, | | IT-ansvarlig, | System administrator, | | Fagskolen Innlandet, | Gjøvik Technical College, Norway, | | tlf. mob. 952 62 567, | Cellular...: +47 952 62 567, | | sentralbord 61 14 54 00. | Switchboard: +47 61 14 54 00. | +---++___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
8.4-RELEASE (was Re: svn & new pkg system)
On 14 Mar 2013, at 23:47, "Michael Ross" wrote: > On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 00:57:25 +0100, Giorgos Keramidas > wrote: > >> On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 18:25:22 -0500, Fbsd8 wrote: >>> Is svn going to become part of the base system in 9.2-RELEASE? >> >> No. > > I'd like to reference a thread on the @stable list here: > >http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2013-March/072765.html > > "svnup is a lightweight, dependency-free, BSD licensed program to pull source > files from a Subversion server." > > > Regards, > > Michael > Speaking of 9.2, are there any plans for a 8.4 ? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 00:57:25 +0100, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 18:25:22 -0500, Fbsd8 wrote: Is svn going to become part of the base system in 9.2-RELEASE? No. I'd like to reference a thread on the @stable list here: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2013-March/072765.html "svnup is a lightweight, dependency-free, BSD licensed program to pull source files from a Subversion server." Regards, Michael ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > Having svn-X.0 in the source tree, imported at great expense of time and > effort, will provide exactly _zero_ benefits if the underlying format of > the repository changes (like subversion likes doing really often). > I agree with your other points, but I think it's worth noting that this particular one isn't actually a concern when it comes to retrieving source code. The subversion *client* doesn't have to care about the server's repository format. All SVN 1.x clients work with all SVN 1.x servers; you just may miss out on some advanced features or optimizations if there's a mismatch, since it'll settle on the lowest common denominator. The *working copy* format does change between client versions, but that's easily resolved by checking out a fresh WC. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 13:39:50 -0400, Fbsd8 wrote: > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 13:18:04 -0400 >> Fbsd8 wrote: >> >>> No body has made a case for NOT including svn in the base system. If >>> it can be a port there is no reason why it can not be included in the >>> base system. >> >> Giorgos did when he said "Subversion is a large system, with a ton of >> dependencies" which translates to a lot of work to keep it up to date >> in the base system, and all sorts of fun and games when other things >> using those dependencies need a newer version. > > And how is that any different from any other package or pkgng situation. Imagine what happens when library libfoo is a dependency of subversion, and they are both imported into the base system. At the same time there are 2-3 incompatible versions of libfoo in the ports. When libfoo is part of the base system we have to: a) Make sure that it works for the base system version of subversion. b) Other programs from ports do not accidentally link with the wrong version of the library from base. c) All programs that subversion uses (possibly plugins and extensions that are now part of base, but part of the packages) use the right 'mix' of libraries. This gets fairly complicated and a brittle _very_ very fast. On the other hand, the inconvenience of having to install subversion from ports is offset by the fact that _everything_ it depends on and everything that depends on _subversion_ itself, is now handled in an homogeneous manner, with exactly the same amount of effort that we would have to spend anyway to maintain it in the ports. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 13:18:04 -0400 Fbsd8 wrote: No body has made a case for NOT including svn in the base system. If it can be a port there is no reason why it can not be included in the base system. Giorgos did when he said "Subversion is a large system, with a ton of dependencies" which translates to a lot of work to keep it up to date in the base system, and all sorts of fun and games when other things using those dependencies need a newer version. And how is that any different from any other package or pkgng situation. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 13:18:04 -0400 Fbsd8 wrote: > No body has made a case for NOT including svn in the base system. If it > can be a port there is no reason why it can not be included in the base > system. Giorgos did when he said "Subversion is a large system, with a ton of dependencies" which translates to a lot of work to keep it up to date in the base system, and all sorts of fun and games when other things using those dependencies need a newer version. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On 2013-03-09 22:04, Robert Huff wrote: Giorgos Keramidas writes: > Is svn going to become part of the base system in 9.2-RELEASE? No. [good reasons for not including subversion ellided] On the other hand ... The traditional - and I believe still canonical - way of updating the system is to recompile from source. I know I am not alone in feeling the system is substantially incomplete if it does not come with all the tools necessary to do that. (Not slighting freebsd-update (don't know enough about it to have an opinion); just pointing out it has limitations.) This has been traditionally true with CVS, which was also a complex piece of software, but still merged periodically into FreeBSD src. I think it's always a small annoyance when things break away from 'tradition', but on the other hand tradition shouldn't be able to put a stop to moving along or act as an impediment for doing our 'real' work. And the real work of the team is to develop FreeBSD, not to develop a version control system. There's a lot of know-how and development happening in the main Subversion development process; a lof of experience that we do not necessarily need to duplicate in our own team to do what we like best: that is, develop FreeBSD. It's understandable that having to install a package to check-out the sources is a diversion from previous practice, and it may be somewhat annoying -- like every change is annoying at first. But the package is not going to go away and it won't stop working, at least as long as we are using it ourselves to develop the system. So other than the difference that now the sources of the VCS used for development are not part of src/, conceptually there isn't a lot of difference from before. The previous state of things was: FreeBSD developers use CVS to check out the sources, and develop the system itself. CVS is available [as part of the base system] to everyone else who wants to grab a copy of the source tree. WHat happens now is quite similar, except for the bracketed text: FreeBSD developers use SVN to check out the sources, and develop the system itself. SVN is available [as part of the official packages] to everyone else who wants to grab a copy of the source tree. Your thinking is way to narrow. Besides source, svn can also grab a copy to the ports tree or just a single port. This a much quicker and a more flexible approach than using portsnap. No body has made a case for NOT including svn in the base system. If it can be a port there is no reason why it can not be included in the base system. Just because developers us it is no reason to make life difficult of those who are not devolopers and have other uses for it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
On 2013-03-09 22:04, Robert Huff wrote: > Giorgos Keramidas writes: > > > Is svn going to become part of the base system in 9.2-RELEASE? > > > > No. > > [good reasons for not including subversion ellided] > > On the other hand ... > > The traditional - and I believe still canonical - way of updating the > system is to recompile from source. > > I know I am not alone in feeling the system is substantially > incomplete if it does not come with all the tools necessary to do > that. > > (Not slighting freebsd-update (don't know enough about it to have an > opinion); just pointing out it has limitations.) This has been traditionally true with CVS, which was also a complex piece of software, but still merged periodically into FreeBSD src. I think it's always a small annoyance when things break away from 'tradition', but on the other hand tradition shouldn't be able to put a stop to moving along or act as an impediment for doing our 'real' work. And the real work of the team is to develop FreeBSD, not to develop a version control system. There's a lot of know-how and development happening in the main Subversion development process; a lof of experience that we do not necessarily need to duplicate in our own team to do what we like best: that is, develop FreeBSD. It's understandable that having to install a package to check-out the sources is a diversion from previous practice, and it may be somewhat annoying -- like every change is annoying at first. But the package is not going to go away and it won't stop working, at least as long as we are using it ourselves to develop the system. So other than the difference that now the sources of the VCS used for development are not part of src/, conceptually there isn't a lot of difference from before. The previous state of things was: FreeBSD developers use CVS to check out the sources, and develop the system itself. CVS is available [as part of the base system] to everyone else who wants to grab a copy of the source tree. WHat happens now is quite similar, except for the bracketed text: FreeBSD developers use SVN to check out the sources, and develop the system itself. SVN is available [as part of the official packages] to everyone else who wants to grab a copy of the source tree. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Fbsd8 wrote: > Is svn going to become part of the base system in 9.2-RELEASE? > not sure about svn, but this port has recently been commited: http://www.freshports.org/net/svnup/ it is a csup replacement. -pete -- pete wright www.nycbug.org @nomadlogicLA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
Giorgos Keramidas writes: > > Is svn going to become part of the base system in 9.2-RELEASE? > > No. [good reasons for not including subversion ellided] On the other hand ... The traditional - and I believe still canonical - way of updating the system is to recompile from source. I know I am not alone in feeling the system is substantially incomplete if it does not come with all the tools necessary to do that. (Not slighting freebsd-update (don't know enough about it to have an opinion); just pointing out it has limitations.) Respectfully, Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: svn & new pkg system
On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 18:25:22 -0500, Fbsd8 wrote: > Is svn going to become part of the base system in 9.2-RELEASE? No. Subversion is a large system, with a ton of dependencies, and there's basically _nothing_ to gain by having to spend extra effort trying to keep an imported version up to date. Having svn-X.0 in the source tree, imported at great expense of time and effort, will provide exactly _zero_ benefits if the underlying format of the repository changes (like subversion likes doing really often). On the other hand, installing subversion from the ports or even from the precompiled packages is always going to work, and we're always going to have a port for it as long as it's a tool that's required to work with the source tree of the system. > Is the new pkg system going to totally replace the pkg_ system in the > base 9.2-Release? I think so. But I have to check to be sure. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
