Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 01/06/12 07:42, Peter Harrison wrote: Thursday, 5 January 2012 at 9:04:40 +1000, Da Rock said: On 01/05/12 07:01, Peter Harrison wrote: On 4 Jan 2012, at 01:08, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 10:38, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) At http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:USB almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. Indeed :) I did notice that the card in question wasn't on that list. But my own experience with ndiswrapper and wifi cards were far less than satisfactory- the firmware always got in the road. But I may have just been too stupid at the time :) I would also observe that most people involved with computers, whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. No they are absolutely not of poor character, I agree. Some messages can be misconstrued, though, in that the replies can be terse and more logical than sympathetic. Sometimes it is easier to replace with a different card than flog a dead horse, although a user may take offense for emotional or financial reasons more than logical. Mitigation is a difficult path as I have found personally, although NDIS helps immensely with wired nics (not so much of a problem these days), and I believe Luigi Rizzo's work with the linuxulator and drivers is to be applauded ten fold. It takes a great deal of time though- I put forward the idea when I was still a BSD pup not entirely realising the challenges :) Luigi (and his colleagues) has been working hard ever since to facilitate the more challenging aspects of multimedia drivers (whether or not that had to do with my comments or not, I don't know). Da Rock, I've been using ndis drivers successfully with a Broadcom chip in my Lenovo s10-e since I bought it some years ago - to the extent that I've not yet switched over to the native drivers now available. I didn't find using ndisgen too problematic. Just a case of finding the right driver files and following the manpage. I'd strongly recommend trying it in preference to a usb stick (been there, done that) or buying new hardware - although I'd agree that depending on the model changing a mini-PCI card isn't necessarily that difficult (I changed it t an Intel card in my other Dell laptop some time ago - remember to attach the internal aerial cable!). Make no mistake I'm not being facetious. How did you do it? The biggest problem I had was that there are multiple firmware for different scenarios that are loaded. One for base station mode, one for adhoc, and one more I think... They got in the way of using it correctly. Da Rock, The short answer is, I'm not honestly sure. It was a couple of years ago and it's given absolutely no trouble since - a genuine fit and forget solution. I remember it as being a question of finding and unpacking the right file then using the .sys and .inf files to create a kernel module using ndisgen. Don't recall having any problems with firmware. The only issue I recall was I think to do with converting the .inf file to unicode, but I might have mis-remembered that. Sorry I can't be more help. I think I hit the same issue, but
[OT] re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
to Jerry at seibercom.net weapons make a polite society http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/11138983/__Van_Uhm_is_wereldhit__.html there's no free piss it's recycled money for water/beer/juice/whatever Cheers Bas Disclaimer: http://www.ose.nl/email ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
Thursday, 5 January 2012 at 9:04:40 +1000, Da Rock said: On 01/05/12 07:01, Peter Harrison wrote: On 4 Jan 2012, at 01:08, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 10:38, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) At http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:USB almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. Indeed :) I did notice that the card in question wasn't on that list. But my own experience with ndiswrapper and wifi cards were far less than satisfactory- the firmware always got in the road. But I may have just been too stupid at the time :) I would also observe that most people involved with computers, whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. No they are absolutely not of poor character, I agree. Some messages can be misconstrued, though, in that the replies can be terse and more logical than sympathetic. Sometimes it is easier to replace with a different card than flog a dead horse, although a user may take offense for emotional or financial reasons more than logical. Mitigation is a difficult path as I have found personally, although NDIS helps immensely with wired nics (not so much of a problem these days), and I believe Luigi Rizzo's work with the linuxulator and drivers is to be applauded ten fold. It takes a great deal of time though- I put forward the idea when I was still a BSD pup not entirely realising the challenges :) Luigi (and his colleagues) has been working hard ever since to facilitate the more challenging aspects of multimedia drivers (whether or not that had to do with my comments or not, I don't know). Da Rock, I've been using ndis drivers successfully with a Broadcom chip in my Lenovo s10-e since I bought it some years ago - to the extent that I've not yet switched over to the native drivers now available. I didn't find using ndisgen too problematic. Just a case of finding the right driver files and following the manpage. I'd strongly recommend trying it in preference to a usb stick (been there, done that) or buying new hardware - although I'd agree that depending on the model changing a mini-PCI card isn't necessarily that difficult (I changed it t an Intel card in my other Dell laptop some time ago - remember to attach the internal aerial cable!). Make no mistake I'm not being facetious. How did you do it? The biggest problem I had was that there are multiple firmware for different scenarios that are loaded. One for base station mode, one for adhoc, and one more I think... They got in the way of using it correctly. Da Rock, The short answer is, I'm not honestly sure. It was a couple of years ago and it's given absolutely no trouble since - a genuine fit and forget solution. I remember it as being a question of finding and unpacking the right file then using the .sys and .inf files to create a kernel module using ndisgen. Don't recall having any problems with firmware. The only issue I recall was I think to do with converting the .inf file to unicode, but I might have
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 04/01/2012 00:57, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: um, well, yeah, but it's a laptop. :/ And I bought it before FreeBSD ever crossed my mind.sigh Replacing the Realtek with a supported wireless card may be as easy as undoing a plate on the bottom of the machine, unclipping the old one and clipping in the new one. They are pretty cheap to buy on ebay. Your wireless card is probably mini pci-e: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313_nkw=mini+pci-e+wireless+card_sacat=See-All-Categories An older style is mini pci. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MiniPCI_and_MiniPCI_Express_cards.jpg It may require removing the keyboard which is a bit harder but quite doable. Generally you get into a laptop by carefully levering off the cover at the back of the keyboard. A service manual is a big help and can often be found with some googling. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 01:29:41PM +, Chris Whitehouse wrote: On 04/01/2012 00:57, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: um, well, yeah, but it's a laptop. :/ And I bought it before FreeBSD ever crossed my mind.sigh Replacing the Realtek with a supported wireless card may be as easy as undoing a plate on the bottom of the machine, unclipping the old one and clipping in the new one. They are pretty cheap to buy on ebay. Your wireless card is probably mini pci-e: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313_nkw=mini+pci-e+wireless+card_sacat=See-All-Categories An older style is mini pci. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MiniPCI_and_MiniPCI_Express_cards.jpg It may require removing the keyboard which is a bit harder but quite doable. Generally you get into a laptop by carefully levering off the cover at the back of the keyboard. A service manual is a big help and can often be found with some googling. As someone who has actually done laptop technician work, professionally, I figure I should point out that the claim that generally you get into a laptop by carefully levering off the cover at the back of the keyboard is not strictly accurate in my experience. This is certainly true of certain models, but the reality is much more complex when you are not specifying a particular model or even a particular brand. ThinkPads, for instance, are not prone to this design, and the first thing one does when disassembling (most?) modern ThinkPads (after turning them off and removing the battery, of course) is turn them over to remove screws. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 04/01/2012 16:21, Chad Perrin wrote: As someone who has actually done laptop technician work, professionally, You don't by any chance know where there is a service manual for OP's laptop in pdf format (or html)? I did a bit of googling but didn't find it. It's a Toshiba U505-S2950. Or maybe you could advise how to replace the wireless card in this particular machine... cheers Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
Thanks, all. I found a manual online. Jeff On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Da Rock freebsd-questi...@herveybayaustralia.com.au wrote: On 01/04/12 10:38, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_**US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/** config-network-setup.htmlhttp://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/**man.cgi?section=8topic=**ndiscvthttp://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) At http://sourceforge.net/apps/**mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.** php?title=Category:USBhttp://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:USB almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. Indeed :) I did notice that the card in question wasn't on that list. But my own experience with ndiswrapper and wifi cards were far less than satisfactory- the firmware always got in the road. But I may have just been too stupid at the time :) I would also observe that most people involved with computers, whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. No they are absolutely not of poor character, I agree. Some messages can be misconstrued, though, in that the replies can be terse and more logical than sympathetic. Sometimes it is easier to replace with a different card than flog a dead horse, although a user may take offense for emotional or financial reasons more than logical. Mitigation is a difficult path as I have found personally, although NDIS helps immensely with wired nics (not so much of a problem these days), and I believe Luigi Rizzo's work with the linuxulator and drivers is to be applauded ten fold. It takes a great deal of time though- I put forward the idea when I was still a BSD pup not entirely realising the challenges :) Luigi (and his colleagues) has been working hard ever since to facilitate the more challenging aspects of multimedia drivers (whether or not that had to do with my comments or not, I don't know). __**_ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**questionshttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-** unsubscr...@freebsd.org freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 4 Jan 2012, at 01:08, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 10:38, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) At http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:USB almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. Indeed :) I did notice that the card in question wasn't on that list. But my own experience with ndiswrapper and wifi cards were far less than satisfactory- the firmware always got in the road. But I may have just been too stupid at the time :) I would also observe that most people involved with computers, whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. No they are absolutely not of poor character, I agree. Some messages can be misconstrued, though, in that the replies can be terse and more logical than sympathetic. Sometimes it is easier to replace with a different card than flog a dead horse, although a user may take offense for emotional or financial reasons more than logical. Mitigation is a difficult path as I have found personally, although NDIS helps immensely with wired nics (not so much of a problem these days), and I believe Luigi Rizzo's work with the linuxulator and drivers is to be applauded ten fold. It takes a great deal of time though- I put forward the idea when I was still a BSD pup not entirely realising the challenges :) Luigi (and his colleagues) has been working hard ever since to facilitate the more challenging aspects of multimedia drivers (whether or not that had to do with my comments or not, I don't know). Da Rock, I've been using ndis drivers successfully with a Broadcom chip in my Lenovo s10-e since I bought it some years ago - to the extent that I've not yet switched over to the native drivers now available. I didn't find using ndisgen too problematic. Just a case of finding the right driver files and following the manpage. I'd strongly recommend trying it in preference to a usb stick (been there, done that) or buying new hardware - although I'd agree that depending on the model changing a mini-PCI card isn't necessarily that difficult (I changed it t an Intel card in my other Dell laptop some time ago - remember to attach the internal aerial cable!). Regards, Peter Harrison. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 10:36:58PM +, Chris Whitehouse wrote: it does look like the card is accessible via that panel on the underside. In which case it is probably quicker and more certain to work to swap cards than to get the Realtek working with ndis, with very little cost - which was my original suggestion to the OP. I agree, so long as Toshiba does not do hardware whitelisting with that model. If it does, I suspect just getting a compatible card from another Toshiba would probably work; if not, there may possibly be a software tool (probably on a bootable CD image) that can be used to deactivate the hardware whitelisting somewhere out there on the Internet, as there is for ThinkPads. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 01/05/12 07:01, Peter Harrison wrote: On 4 Jan 2012, at 01:08, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 10:38, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) At http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:USB almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. Indeed :) I did notice that the card in question wasn't on that list. But my own experience with ndiswrapper and wifi cards were far less than satisfactory- the firmware always got in the road. But I may have just been too stupid at the time :) I would also observe that most people involved with computers, whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. No they are absolutely not of poor character, I agree. Some messages can be misconstrued, though, in that the replies can be terse and more logical than sympathetic. Sometimes it is easier to replace with a different card than flog a dead horse, although a user may take offense for emotional or financial reasons more than logical. Mitigation is a difficult path as I have found personally, although NDIS helps immensely with wired nics (not so much of a problem these days), and I believe Luigi Rizzo's work with the linuxulator and drivers is to be applauded ten fold. It takes a great deal of time though- I put forward the idea when I was still a BSD pup not entirely realising the challenges :) Luigi (and his colleagues) has been working hard ever since to facilitate the more challenging aspects of multimedia drivers (whether or not that had to do with my comments or not, I don't know). Da Rock, I've been using ndis drivers successfully with a Broadcom chip in my Lenovo s10-e since I bought it some years ago - to the extent that I've not yet switched over to the native drivers now available. I didn't find using ndisgen too problematic. Just a case of finding the right driver files and following the manpage. I'd strongly recommend trying it in preference to a usb stick (been there, done that) or buying new hardware - although I'd agree that depending on the model changing a mini-PCI card isn't necessarily that difficult (I changed it t an Intel card in my other Dell laptop some time ago - remember to attach the internal aerial cable!). Make no mistake I'm not being facetious. How did you do it? The biggest problem I had was that there are multiple firmware for different scenarios that are loaded. One for base station mode, one for adhoc, and one more I think... They got in the way of using it correctly. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: I have a Toshiba Satellite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek RTL8191SEvB wireless card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize this card and can't use it, but Ubuntu does. Would it be possible to go glom a Linux driver off the web someplace and install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to work? I'm using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy thing sticking out like it does. Unfortunately the API's are completely different. Adrian Chadd does a lot of work on Wifi in FreeBSD, but I'm not sure if its on the todo list or not. Try a search on google... This is what drives me to pull my hair out. I have stated several times that all the *nix/*BSD consortium needs to do to become truly competitive in the market is to devise a uniform API that works the same on FreeBSD as on Ubuntu and every other non-windows based system. The concept is so simple that it amazes me that it was not implemented eons ago. The problem is that the non-windows operating system authors all behave live little children. None of them can simply get along. The all have to insist that they have the best and everyone else is wrong. They swing between Narcissism and Paranoia on any given day. You would have an easier time getting a Jew and a Muslim to sit down at a table and enjoy a ham dinner than you have of getting the powers that be in the non-windows community to agree to anything, other than their hatred of Microsoft of course. I have spoken with representatives of companies, the last one being Brother International, who plain out stated that they only support Microsoft (naturally - they offer the easiest and best documented system for driver installation) and a vanilla Linux solution. They openly stated that there is no way that they would even attempt to write software for a market as fractured as the *nix/*BSD community and then be straddled with the problem of supporting such software. Hell, every time someone in the BSD community dotted an i in the kernel source code the poor driver authors would have to rewrite their device code. Certainly a task I would not want to be assigned. Ubuntu is years ahead of FreeBSD in creating a useful and fully functional desktop, I read where they were working on making it possible to use a driver disk intended for Microsoft's Windows OS usable in Ubuntu. They were working on a method of simply extracting the code needed directly from a CD and using it directly on Ubuntu. Now that is what I call true forward thinking. The authors of FreeBSD, and to a lesser extend Linux remind me of group of of passengers left floating in the ocean after their ship sank. The best case scenario at that point would be to be rescued by another passing ship. However, while waiting for that to occur it would seem logical to grab onto any object that floated by and thereby allow the stranded individual a better chance at survival. If these were Ubuntu survivors there would be no question as to what they would choose to do, as well as some of the more enlighten *nix users. However, the *BSD users, especially the FreeBSD ones would rather drown than accept a solution that was not counter to what everyone else was trying to accomplish. I have, mistakenly I admit, stated that there are no drivers for lots of devices currently available on the market, especially the higher end ones. That statement is essentially incorrect. There are drivers for these devices, and other OSs are taking advantage of them. FreeBSD, in its unending war against simplicity and continued insistence on reinventing the wheel, refuses to avail itself of them. You can lead a horse to water; however, you cannot stop it from running head long into the desert and dying of thirst. Stupidity IS its own punishment. It took the Catholic church until 1992 to admit that Galileo Galilei was correct and the earth does rotate around the sun. So there is hope. Perhaps someday FreeBSD will become enlightened also. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
Ladies and gentleman, I will be unplugged from my email until the 17th of January. In the mean time here's a video of a bunny opening your mail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMyaRmTwdKs Your mail will not be forwarded and I will contact you when I come back, alternatively you can contact one of the other administrators or email i...@astalavista.com Merry christmas and a happy new year! Best regards, Sykadul ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: I have a Toshiba Satellite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek RTL8191SEvB wireless card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize this card and can't use it, but Ubuntu does. Would it be possible to go glom a Linux driver off the web someplace and install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to work? I'm using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy thing sticking out like it does. Unfortunately the API's are completely different. Adrian Chadd does a lot of work on Wifi in FreeBSD, but I'm not sure if its on the todo list or not. Try a search on google... This is what drives me to pull my hair out. I have stated several times that all the *nix/*BSD consortium needs to do to become truly competitive in the market is to devise a uniform API that works the same on FreeBSD as on Ubuntu and every other non-windows based system. The concept is so simple that it amazes me that it was not implemented eons ago. The problem is that the non-windows operating system authors all behave live little children. None of them can simply get along. The all have to insist that they have the best and everyone else is wrong. They swing between Narcissism and Paranoia on any given day. You would have an easier time getting a Jew and a Muslim to sit down at a table and enjoy a ham dinner than you have of getting the powers that be in the non-windows community to agree to anything, other than their hatred of Microsoft of course. I have spoken with representatives of companies, the last one being Brother International, who plain out stated that they only support Microsoft (naturally - they offer the easiest and best documented system for driver installation) and a vanilla Linux solution. They openly stated that there is no way that they would even attempt to write software for a market as fractured as the *nix/*BSD community and then be straddled with the problem of supporting such software. Hell, every time someone in the BSD community dotted an i in the kernel source code the poor driver authors would have to rewrite their device code. Certainly a task I would not want to be assigned. Ubuntu is years ahead of FreeBSD in creating a useful and fully functional desktop, I read where they were working on making it possible to use a driver disk intended for Microsoft's Windows OS usable in Ubuntu. They were working on a method of simply extracting the code needed directly from a CD and using it directly on Ubuntu. Now that is what I call true forward thinking. The authors of FreeBSD, and to a lesser extend Linux remind me of group of of passengers left floating in the ocean after their ship sank. The best case scenario at that point would be to be rescued by another passing ship. However, while waiting for that to occur it would seem logical to grab onto any object that floated by and thereby allow the stranded individual a better chance at survival. If these were Ubuntu survivors there would be no question as to what they would choose to do, as well as some of the more enlighten *nix users. However, the *BSD users, especially the FreeBSD ones would rather drown than accept a solution that was not counter to what everyone else was trying to accomplish. I have, mistakenly I admit, stated that there are no drivers for lots of devices currently available on the market, especially the higher end ones. That statement is essentially incorrect. There are drivers for these devices, and other OSs are taking advantage of them. FreeBSD, in its unending war against simplicity and continued insistence on reinventing the wheel, refuses to avail itself of them. You can lead a horse to water; however, you cannot stop it from running head long into the desert and dying of thirst. Stupidity IS its own punishment. It took the Catholic church until 1992 to admit that Galileo Galilei was correct and the earth does rotate around the sun. So there is hope. Perhaps someday FreeBSD will become enlightened also. Jerry, there are so many things that are so wrong and so un-pc in this statement that it is more than ridiculous. But we will ignore the political/religious sentiments and try to stick to the technical. Winblows, Mac, Linux, BSD, others APIs are like cheese and chalk (although Mac is a closer relative than any other). By your logic we should be getting Winblows drivers to work on BSD. And thats not even touching the licensing issues. Or the simple design policies (such as userspace or kernel modules) that differ from platform to platform. Some ray of hope allowed some linux drivers to reach the horizon, but so far only usb is remotely possible. Perhaps you might become enlightened enough to do the research (like I did) on the background and core details of what is involved before you start a rant such as this. This has been brought to your attention before, only recently in fact. Start
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 00:17:36 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: I have a Toshiba Satellite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek RTL8191SEvB wireless card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize this card and can't use it, but Ubuntu does. Would it be possible to go glom a Linux driver off the web someplace and install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to work? I'm using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy thing sticking out like it does. Unfortunately the API's are completely different. Adrian Chadd does a lot of work on Wifi in FreeBSD, but I'm not sure if its on the todo list or not. Try a search on google... This is what drives me to pull my hair out. I have stated several times that all the *nix/*BSD consortium needs to do to become truly competitive in the market is to devise a uniform API that works the same on FreeBSD as on Ubuntu and every other non-windows based system. The concept is so simple that it amazes me that it was not implemented eons ago. The problem is that the non-windows operating system authors all behave live little children. None of them can simply get along. The all have to insist that they have the best and everyone else is wrong. They swing between Narcissism and Paranoia on any given day. You would have an easier time getting a Jew and a Muslim to sit down at a table and enjoy a ham dinner than you have of getting the powers that be in the non-windows community to agree to anything, other than their hatred of Microsoft of course. I have spoken with representatives of companies, the last one being Brother International, who plain out stated that they only support Microsoft (naturally - they offer the easiest and best documented system for driver installation) and a vanilla Linux solution. They openly stated that there is no way that they would even attempt to write software for a market as fractured as the *nix/*BSD community and then be straddled with the problem of supporting such software. Hell, every time someone in the BSD community dotted an i in the kernel source code the poor driver authors would have to rewrite their device code. Certainly a task I would not want to be assigned. Ubuntu is years ahead of FreeBSD in creating a useful and fully functional desktop, I read where they were working on making it possible to use a driver disk intended for Microsoft's Windows OS usable in Ubuntu. They were working on a method of simply extracting the code needed directly from a CD and using it directly on Ubuntu. Now that is what I call true forward thinking. The authors of FreeBSD, and to a lesser extend Linux remind me of group of of passengers left floating in the ocean after their ship sank. The best case scenario at that point would be to be rescued by another passing ship. However, while waiting for that to occur it would seem logical to grab onto any object that floated by and thereby allow the stranded individual a better chance at survival. If these were Ubuntu survivors there would be no question as to what they would choose to do, as well as some of the more enlighten *nix users. However, the *BSD users, especially the FreeBSD ones would rather drown than accept a solution that was not counter to what everyone else was trying to accomplish. I have, mistakenly I admit, stated that there are no drivers for lots of devices currently available on the market, especially the higher end ones. That statement is essentially incorrect. There are drivers for these devices, and other OSs are taking advantage of them. FreeBSD, in its unending war against simplicity and continued insistence on reinventing the wheel, refuses to avail itself of them. You can lead a horse to water; however, you cannot stop it from running head long into the desert and dying of thirst. Stupidity IS its own punishment. It took the Catholic church until 1992 to admit that Galileo Galilei was correct and the earth does rotate around the sun. So there is hope. Perhaps someday FreeBSD will become enlightened also. Jerry, there are so many things that are so wrong and so un-pc in this statement that it is more than ridiculous. But we will ignore the political/religious sentiments and try to stick to the technical. Winblows, Mac, Linux, BSD, others APIs are like cheese and chalk (although Mac is a closer relative than any other). By your logic we should be getting Winblows drivers to work on BSD. FreePiss, etcetera and their API's are like cheese and chalk! How the hell did you come up with that analogy? Further, who the hell is MAC's relative? To move right along, if a driver all ready exists for a device why not take full advantage of it? Obviously, you failed to read my statement regarding a unified API. There
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 01/04/12 01:06, Jerry wrote: On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 00:17:36 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: I have a Toshiba Satellite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek RTL8191SEvB wireless card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize this card and can't use it, but Ubuntu does. Would it be possible to go glom a Linux driver off the web someplace and install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to work? I'm using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy thing sticking out like it does. Unfortunately the API's are completely different. Adrian Chadd does a lot of work on Wifi in FreeBSD, but I'm not sure if its on the todo list or not. Try a search on google... This is what drives me to pull my hair out. I have stated several times that all the *nix/*BSD consortium needs to do to become truly competitive in the market is to devise a uniform API that works the same on FreeBSD as on Ubuntu and every other non-windows based system. The concept is so simple that it amazes me that it was not implemented eons ago. The problem is that the non-windows operating system authors all behave live little children. None of them can simply get along. The all have to insist that they have the best and everyone else is wrong. They swing between Narcissism and Paranoia on any given day. You would have an easier time getting a Jew and a Muslim to sit down at a table and enjoy a ham dinner than you have of getting the powers that be in the non-windows community to agree to anything, other than their hatred of Microsoft of course. I have spoken with representatives of companies, the last one being Brother International, who plain out stated that they only support Microsoft (naturally - they offer the easiest and best documented system for driver installation) and a vanilla Linux solution. They openly stated that there is no way that they would even attempt to write software for a market as fractured as the *nix/*BSD community and then be straddled with the problem of supporting such software. Hell, every time someone in the BSD community dotted an i in the kernel source code the poor driver authors would have to rewrite their device code. Certainly a task I would not want to be assigned. Ubuntu is years ahead of FreeBSD in creating a useful and fully functional desktop, I read where they were working on making it possible to use a driver disk intended for Microsoft's Windows OS usable in Ubuntu. They were working on a method of simply extracting the code needed directly from a CD and using it directly on Ubuntu. Now that is what I call true forward thinking. The authors of FreeBSD, and to a lesser extend Linux remind me of group of of passengers left floating in the ocean after their ship sank. The best case scenario at that point would be to be rescued by another passing ship. However, while waiting for that to occur it would seem logical to grab onto any object that floated by and thereby allow the stranded individual a better chance at survival. If these were Ubuntu survivors there would be no question as to what they would choose to do, as well as some of the more enlighten *nix users. However, the *BSD users, especially the FreeBSD ones would rather drown than accept a solution that was not counter to what everyone else was trying to accomplish. I have, mistakenly I admit, stated that there are no drivers for lots of devices currently available on the market, especially the higher end ones. That statement is essentially incorrect. There are drivers for these devices, and other OSs are taking advantage of them. FreeBSD, in its unending war against simplicity and continued insistence on reinventing the wheel, refuses to avail itself of them. You can lead a horse to water; however, you cannot stop it from running head long into the desert and dying of thirst. Stupidity IS its own punishment. It took the Catholic church until 1992 to admit that Galileo Galilei was correct and the earth does rotate around the sun. So there is hope. Perhaps someday FreeBSD will become enlightened also. Jerry, there are so many things that are so wrong and so un-pc in this statement that it is more than ridiculous. But we will ignore the political/religious sentiments and try to stick to the technical. Winblows, Mac, Linux, BSD, others APIs are like cheese and chalk (although Mac is a closer relative than any other). By your logic we should be getting Winblows drivers to work on BSD. FreePiss, etcetera and their API's are like cheese and chalk! How the hell did you come up with that analogy? Further, who the hell is MAC's relative? To move right along, if a driver all ready exists for a device why not take full advantage of it? Obviously, you failed to read my statement regarding a unified API. There has been a serious push I have observed on the Linux forums towards consolidation of resources which would lead to
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Jerry, there are so many things that are so wrong and so un-pc in this statement that it is more than ridiculous. But we will ignore the political/religious sentiments and try to stick to the technical. Winblows, Mac, Linux, BSD, others APIs are like cheese and chalk (although Mac is a closer relative than any other). By your logic we should be getting Winblows drivers to work on BSD. Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Daniel Feenberg ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 01:28:17 +1000 Da Rock articulated: And it appears to be so alien to you that M$ might possibly not allow a unified API between closed and open source in _your_ so called free society, or that what make other systems different _is_ the API, license, policies, etc. You cannot change a system so fundamentally without _breaking_ it- *any* system. Have you had any experience in any of the fields you even claim to be knowledgeable in? I know university lecturers who aren't so don't even try to hide behind letter suffixes. Obviously you are having a very difficult time expression yourself in English. I understand that. I can't talk Spanish worth a crap. In any case, attempting to decipher your writings is more time consuming than I plan to allocate myself at this time. In any, Microsoft would have no say in what common API was agreed upon by a coalition of *nix/*BSD developers. I am totally and completely lost at how you even came to that conclusion. While Microsoft does undoubtedly write some drivers, all the the hardware drivers for devices that I have used for probably 10 years that I can document are written by and owned by entities other that Microsoft. If Microsoft actually had control over said drivers as you seem to believe, the EU aka USSREU would have attempted to have Microsoft release driver specific information to everyone with their hand out. Even Opera couldn't get the EU to bite on that one. There is no legal problem here. The problem is that it is easier to bitch about something and blame others than to form a consensus and correct the problem. There are all ready people working on it. Somehow though, I get the real impression that if a unified API were to be developed that FreeBSD would be the only one not on-board. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
Jerry, Sorry for top posting. Take offense if you like. The o= nly thing I have to say after experiencing the last few days on-list is to = (gently) point out that not everyone's goal in life is to run a system like= Windows. If that was what I wanted I'd be running Windows. I find F= reeBSD more intuitive and easier to use. And I'm prepared to accept that I = have to be a bit picky about the hardware I buy. I consider it a price wort= h paying. Would I like better hardware support? Of course! But if th= e price of that is a fundamental change to the OS interface, then I think t= he price is too high. It strikes me that Ubuntu are running very fas= t to turn Linux into Windows. They'll have good device support and a strong= GUI layer. I'm sure that will fit a lot of users needs, but /not mine/. People who wa= nt that should use Ubuntu. Or Windows. People who like the freedom and con= figurability offered by FreeBSD should use FreeBSD and accept the payoff. = And we should all just rub along, happy in the knowledge that we have chose= n the system we want. -- Pe= ter Harrison _ On 3 Jan 201= 2 12:11, Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Tue, 03= Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01= /03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: I have a Toshiba Sate= llite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek RTL8191SEvB wireless= card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize this card and ca= n't use it, but Ubuntu does. Would it be po= ssible to go glom a Linux driver off the web someplace and = install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to work? I'm= using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy thing = sticking out like it does. Unfortunately the API= 's are completely different. Adrian Chadd does a lot of work on= Wifi in FreeBSD, but I'm not sure if its on the todo list or no= t. Try a search on google... This is what drives me to pull my= hair out. I have stated several times that all the *nix/*BSD consort= ium needs to do to become truly competitive in the market is to devis= e a uniform API that works the same on FreeBSD as on Ubuntu and every= other non-windows based system. The concept is so simple that it ama= zes me that it was not implemented eons ago. The problem= is that the non-windows operating system authors all behave live lit= tle children. None of them can simply get along. The all have to insi= st that they have the best and everyone else is wrong. They swing b= etween Narcissism and Paranoia on any given day. You would have an ea= sier time getting a Jew and a Muslim to sit down at a table and enjoy= a ham dinner than you have of getting the powers that be in the non-= windows community to agree to anything, other than their hatred of Mi= crosoft of course. I have spoken with representatives of compa= nies, the last one being Brother International, who plain out stated = that they only support Microsoft (naturally - they offer the easiest = and best documented system for driver installation) and a vanilla Lin= ux solution. They openly stated that there is no way that they would = even attempt to write software for a market as fractured as the *nix/= *BSD community and then be straddled with the problem of supporting s= uch software. Hell, every time someone in the BSD community dotted an= i in the kernel source code the poor driver authors would have to = rewrite their device code. Certainly a task I would not want to be as= signed. Ubuntu is years ahead of FreeBSD in creating a useful = and fully functional desktop, I read where they were working on makin= g it possible to use a driver disk intended for Microsoft's Windows O= S usable in Ubuntu. They were working on a method of simply extractin g the code needed directly from a CD and using it directly on Ubuntu. Now that is what I call true forward thinking. The au= thors of FreeBSD, and to a lesser extend Linux remind me of group of = of passengers left floating in the ocean after their ship sank. The b= est case scenario at that point would be to be rescued by another pas= sing ship. However, while waiting for that to occur it would seem log= ical to grab onto any object that floated by and thereby allow the st= randed individual a better chance at survival. If these were Ubuntu s= urvivors there would be no question as to what they would choose to d= o, as well as some of the more enlighten *nix users. However, the *B= SD users, especially the FreeBSD ones would rather drown than accept = a solution that was not counter to what everyone else was trying to a= ccomplish. I have,
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:10:39 -0500 (EST) Daniel Feenberg articulated: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Jerry, there are so many things that are so wrong and so un-pc in this statement that it is more than ridiculous. But we will ignore the political/religious sentiments and try to stick to the technical. Winblows, Mac, Linux, BSD, others APIs are like cheese and chalk (although Mac is a closer relative than any other). By your logic we should be getting Winblows drivers to work on BSD. Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? This is a start in the right direction, but by no means an end to it. While it does work for some devices, I have tried using it on several wireless N devices for example with total failure. It also doesn't work at all for printer/scanner/fax/etcetera drivers. A unified API would eliminate all of this bullshit and make the setting up of and the maintenance of a system imminently easier. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
Quoth Jerry on Tuesday, 03 January 2012: Obviously you are having a very difficult time expression yourself in English. Sorry, this one made me spew my coffee. The rest of the post I didn't find nearly as entertaining. -- .O. | Sterling (Chip) Camden | http://camdensoftware.com ..O | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | http://chipsquips.com OOO | 2048R/D6DBAF91 | http://chipstips.com pgpmb7sx4WfCe.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Jerry, there are so many things that are so wrong and so un-pc in this statement that it is more than ridiculous. But we will ignore the political/religious sentiments and try to stick to the technical. Winblows, Mac, Linux, BSD, others APIs are like cheese and chalk (although Mac is a closer relative than any other). By your logic we should be getting Winblows drivers to work on BSD. Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) I had considered that as an answer, but the device is wifi and the firmware makes it damn near impossible to use in this way. NDIS setup is less than user friendly at the best of times without the additional hoops for the firmware loading. I've tried it myself before. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) At http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:USB almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. I would also observe that most people involved with computers, whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. Daniel Feenberg ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Da Rock freebsd-questi...@herveybayaustralia.com.au wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_**US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/** config-network-setup.htmlhttp://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/**man.cgi?section=8topic=**ndiscvthttp://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) I had considered that aan answer, but the device is wifi and the firmware Excuse my ignorance (again) but what does this mean? ...the Firmware... For now I have reverted this machine to Ubuntu; it's just a machine I set up for my wife to browse the net so she can keep her 30,000 pictures on a Windows box virus-free and it's too much hassle to have the belkin thingy sticking out the side trying to get knocked off. (Just as an aside I don't know why there seems to be so much resentment for Ubuntu here, it looks free and open to me, but what do I know?) Anyway, back to the point, I mostly started using PC-BSD because it's more secure than Windows, and because even at my age (retired) I can continue to learn something just for the fun of it, and because... well, it's difficult to express. I've messed with Linux on and off since Debian 1.2, then had to focus hard on Windows so I could get good enough at it to make a living as a Windows desktop tech in a nationwide health care company... now I find myself attracted to PC-BSD, which has the same stated intent, btw, as Ubuntu, to make a desktop that ordinary users (which just about defines me) can use. Excuse the blather. The point: Does anyone think it might be worth the effort to try to run ndisgen on the Windows drivers? makes it damn near impossible to use in this way. NDIS setup is less than user friendly at the best of times without the additional hoops for the firmware loading. I've tried it myself before. __**_ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**questionshttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-** unsubscr...@freebsd.org freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Daniel Feenberg feenb...@nber.org wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_**US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/** config-network-setup.htmlhttp://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/**man.cgi?section=8topic=**ndiscvthttp://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) At http://sourceforge.net/apps/**mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.** php?title=Category:USBhttp://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:USB almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. um, well, yeah, but it's a laptop. :/ And I bought it before FreeBSD ever crossed my mind. sigh I would also observe that most people involved with computers, whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. Daniel Feenberg __**_ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**questionshttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-** unsubscr...@freebsd.org freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 01/04/12 10:38, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Da Rock wrote: On 01/03/12 22:10, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000 Da Rock articulated: On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) At http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:USB almost 800 compatible devices are listed. Not everything, but I have found that a willingness to spend a few dollars on a different card helps immensely in enjoying FreeBSD and Linux. For me at least it is easier to find a compatible card than to write a compatible driver. Indeed :) I did notice that the card in question wasn't on that list. But my own experience with ndiswrapper and wifi cards were far less than satisfactory- the firmware always got in the road. But I may have just been too stupid at the time :) I would also observe that most people involved with computers, whether as users or developers, have little symphathy for people with different needs from the device. This is a great impediment to progress. It is a mistake to assume that because you don't need something, another person's desire for it is illegitimate. In this case, I fully agree that it is an injustice that hardware vendors do not supply FreeBSD drivers, but that does not mean that users requiring such drivers are immoral or of poor character, and therefore to be ignored or insulted. There is little that FreeBSD coders and users can do about that injustice directly, however it is within their power to mitigate it with the NDIS wrapper. If that wrapper allows another user to enter the FOSS world, that will (in the fullness of time) contribute to reforming the vendor. No they are absolutely not of poor character, I agree. Some messages can be misconstrued, though, in that the replies can be terse and more logical than sympathetic. Sometimes it is easier to replace with a different card than flog a dead horse, although a user may take offense for emotional or financial reasons more than logical. Mitigation is a difficult path as I have found personally, although NDIS helps immensely with wired nics (not so much of a problem these days), and I believe Luigi Rizzo's work with the linuxulator and drivers is to be applauded ten fold. It takes a great deal of time though- I put forward the idea when I was still a BSD pup not entirely realising the challenges :) Luigi (and his colleagues) has been working hard ever since to facilitate the more challenging aspects of multimedia drivers (whether or not that had to do with my comments or not, I don't know). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 01/04/12 10:48, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Da Rock freebsd-questi...@herveybayaustralia.com.au wrote: On 01/04/12 02:10, Daniel Feenberg wrote: Don't ndis(4) ndiscvt and ndisgen(8) essentially accomplish what the OP is requesting? See the handbook section 12.8.1.1: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_**US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/** config-network-setup.htmlhttp://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/config-network-setup.html or the man page for ndiscvt: http://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/**man.cgi?section=8topic=**ndiscvthttp://www.gsp.com/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8topic=ndiscvt While doing the conversion looks a bit beyond what we would expect of an end-user, it does seem to offer a path for using hardware whose manufacturer does not support FreeBSD. Is there anything beyond licensing issues preventing such drivers from being included in the distribution, or made downloadable in FreeBSD form? Oh yes, it is possible, just not probable :) I had considered that aan answer, but the device is wifi and the firmware Excuse my ignorance (again) but what does this mean? ...the Firmware... For now I have reverted this machine to Ubuntu; it's just a machine I set up for my wife to browse the net so she can keep her 30,000 pictures on a Windows box virus-free and it's too much hassle to have the belkin thingy sticking out the side trying to get knocked off. (Just as an aside I don't know why there seems to be so much resentment for Ubuntu here, it looks free and open to me, but what do I know?) A lot of hardware runs its own software (called firmware) on it which these days is uploaded when the OS loads the driver. This way updates to the firmware are made easily because its on the disk and not embedded in the hardware (think BIOS updates). Ubuntus fine. Its a stepping stone to understand how *nix runs. The current change in policy direction can raise a few eyebrows here though, but no one holds a grudge against it here. You'll have to ignore Jerry's rants though and the ensuing dialogue- its just the fly in the ointment here. Anyway, back to the point, I mostly started using PC-BSD because it's more secure than Windows, and because even at my age (retired) I can continue to learn something just for the fun of it, and because... well, it's difficult to express. I've messed with Linux on and off since Debian 1.2, then had to focus hard on Windows so I could get good enough at it to make a living as a Windows desktop tech in a nationwide health care company... now I find myself attracted to PC-BSD, which has the same stated intent, btw, as Ubuntu, to make a desktop that ordinary users (which just about defines me) can use. Admirable, and you'll get a lot of support here- a lot have had the same experience and may be in the same boat. If you have the time and want to give back you'll learn a lot more as well. Excuse the blather. The point: Does anyone think it might be worth the effort to try to run ndisgen on the Windows drivers? By all means. Follow the instructions in the handbook and have a go, your experience may differ than my own. There are a factors against you, such as its not on that less than exhaustive list supplied (although mine was, and yet...), and the firmware loading. If you get stuck with it, then please ask for help and someone may have an answer. If nothing else you'll gain experience :) Laptops are almost never completely supported so don't stress, I've had my own issues over the years - they always seem to be one step behind. But that distance is shrinking rapidly: thanks guys! :) Part of the fun is trying to get it to work on yet a different model of laptop... But if it fails and you have to fall back to Ubuntu thats ok, you won't be ostracised; you may even be able to get some answers for your Ubuntu problems here (it can happen...). Just keep watching the list and you'll gain some more knowledge and experience, throw in a few well placed questions here and there helps too. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
I have a Toshiba Satellite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek RTL8191SEvB wireless card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize this card and can't use it, but Ubuntu does. Would it be possible to go glom a Linux driver off the web someplace and install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to work? I'm using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy thing sticking out like it does. Thanks, Jeff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver?
On 01/03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote: I have a Toshiba Satellite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek RTL8191SEvB wireless card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize this card and can't use it, but Ubuntu does. Would it be possible to go glom a Linux driver off the web someplace and install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to work? I'm using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy thing sticking out like it does. Unfortunately the API's are completely different. Adrian Chadd does a lot of work on Wifi in FreeBSD, but I'm not sure if its on the todo list or not. Try a search on google... Sorry I can't help more than that :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
