Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
(Still going through some old messages, but this thread had some misconceptions and myths that I'd like to straighten out): ATA channel 0: Master: ad0 ST380021A/3.19 ATA/ATAPI rev 5 Slave: acd0 CD-RW 24X10X40/Y.IW ATA/ATAPI rev 0 ATA channel 1: Master: ad2 ST380011A/3.06 ATA/ATAPI rev 6 Slave: no device present Here is your problem. On channel 0 You have an UDMA100 disk and an UDMA33 cd-rw. The motherboard IDE controller steps down the speed to the speed of the slowest device. You have to move the cd-rw device This is not true. With today's computers, all disks will operate at their highest speed, not matter what other device they are paired with. Their transfer rate may be slowed down if *both* devices are accessed at the exact same time, but that's nothing to worry about generally. So just because you have a CD-ROM and an UDMA100 disk on the same channel, it doesn't mean the UDMA100 disk will be slowed in nearly any noticable fashion. Also mentioned in this thread was something about the cable being connected backwards. There is no motherboard and disk connecting direction in an IDE cable, be it a reguler one or a UDMA 100 one. Cables are made to be a little more convenient if you hook them up the right way (with two connectors closer together at one end), but it has no bearing on the speed or the UDMA detected. -- Jonathan Arnold (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Daemon Dancing in the Dark, a FreeBSD weblog: http://freebsd.amazingdev.com/blog/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
I have an PC with mfg date of 5/2003 and the motherboard manually has warning note about separating the cdrom drive to the secondary IDE controller because it will force the IDE controller to step down the max speed to the slowest device. This was not only for cdrom drives but also mixing UDMA100 and UDMA66 and UDMA33 disk on any IDE controller. IDE max controller speed is set by bios at boot time after the probe post process completes. So just exactly what time period are you referencing by With today's computers? DO you work for Bios chip manufacture, or write the FBSD bios's boot probe code? What is your technical background to make such an authoritative statement in light of so much information to the contrary? Now on the subject of which end of the IDE ribbon you plug into the motherboard. I agree with you that it makes no difference other that one end has 2 nipples closely spaced together and if that end is plugged into the motherboard it's next to imposable to attach an second device to the ribbon. Now if the devices are jumper as master and slave it does make an difference which of the 2 closely spaced nipples are used as the nipples have default meanings. And I believe the default nipple meaning (IE: master, slave) changed from the UDMA33 of the ending nipple being master to middle nipple being master for UDMA66 100. Now I am no technical wizard, but that has been me experience as new PCs have replaced older ones in the company I work for and I have had to configure them before giving them to the users. Now the work PC all rum ms/windows and I can see the 'post' summary display shows the UDMA of 33 on both devices when I have an UDMA100 hard drive and UDMA33 cdrom on same IDE controller. The hard facts just do not match you generic statement. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Arnold Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 9:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB) (Still going through some old messages, but this thread had some misconceptions and myths that I'd like to straighten out): ATA channel 0: Master: ad0 ST380021A/3.19 ATA/ATAPI rev 5 Slave: acd0 CD-RW 24X10X40/Y.IW ATA/ATAPI rev 0 ATA channel 1: Master: ad2 ST380011A/3.06 ATA/ATAPI rev 6 Slave: no device present Here is your problem. On channel 0 You have an UDMA100 disk and an UDMA33 cd-rw. The motherboard IDE controller steps down the speed to the speed of the slowest device. You have to move the cd-rw device This is not true. With today's computers, all disks will operate at their highest speed, not matter what other device they are paired with. Their transfer rate may be slowed down if *both* devices are accessed at the exact same time, but that's nothing to worry about generally. So just because you have a CD-ROM and an UDMA100 disk on the same channel, it doesn't mean the UDMA100 disk will be slowed in nearly any noticable fashion. Also mentioned in this thread was something about the cable being connected backwards. There is no motherboard and disk connecting direction in an IDE cable, be it a reguler one or a UDMA 100 one. Cables are made to be a little more convenient if you hook them up the right way (with two connectors closer together at one end), but it has no bearing on the speed or the UDMA detected. -- Jonathan Arnold (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Daemon Dancing in the Dark, a FreeBSD weblog: http://freebsd.amazingdev.com/blog/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
JJB wrote: This is not true. With today's computers, all disks will operate at their highest speed, not matter what other device they are paired with. Their transfer rate may be slowed down if *both* devices are accessed at the exact same time, but that's nothing to worry about generally. So just because you have a CD-ROM and an UDMA100 disk on the same channel, it doesn't mean the UDMA100 disk will be slowed in nearly any noticable fashion. I have an PC with mfg date of 5/2003 and the motherboard manually has warning note about separating the cdrom drive to the secondary IDE controller because it will force the IDE controller to step down the max speed to the slowest device. This was not only for cdrom drives but also mixing UDMA100 and UDMA66 and UDMA33 disk on any IDE controller. IDE max controller speed is set by bios at boot time after the probe post process completes. So just exactly what time period are you referencing by With today's computers? DO you work for Bios chip manufacture, or write the FBSD bios's boot probe code? What is your technical background to make such an authoritative statement in light of so much information to the contrary? All you need to do is to Google for hard drive cd-rom myth and you'll get plenty of places that explain this. I guarantee you that a UDMA100 drive won't be set at PIO4 just because there's a CD-ROM drive on the same channel. Your manual is probably talking about exactly what I said - if both devices are accessed at the same time, the transfer will occur at the slower rate. But that does not mean either the bios or FreeBSD doesn't know that a UDMA100 drive is out there. In fact, my FreeBSD has both a UDMA66 and 100 on it, and FreeBSD knows all about the two. And if you are just getting stuff from the hard drive (which is probably 95+% of the time), then you have a perfectly functioning UDMA100 drive. second device to the ribbon. Now if the devices are jumper as master and slave it does make an difference which of the 2 closely spaced nipples are used as the nipples have default meanings. And I believe I don't think this is true either. I've hooked up a lot of drives in my time, and I've never seen this. And no build it yourself guide that I was able to find on the 'net mentioned anything at all about which nipple to plug into the slave or master drive. -- Jonathan Arnold (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Daemon Dancing in the Dark, a FreeBSD weblog: http://freebsd.amazingdev.com/blog/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:58:47 -0500, Jonathan Arnold wrote: Also mentioned in this thread was something about the cable being connected backwards. There is no motherboard and disk connecting direction in an IDE cable, be it a reguler one or a UDMA 100 one. Cables are made to be a little more convenient if you hook them up the right way (with two connectors closer together at one end), but it has no bearing on the speed or the UDMA detected. Then on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:31:16 -0500, JJB wrote: Now on the subject of which end of the IDE ribbon you plug into the motherboard. I agree with you that it makes no difference other that one end has 2 nipples closely spaced together and if that end is plugged into the motherboard it's next to imposable to attach an second device to the ribbon. Now if the devices are jumper as master ... Then on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:41:08 -0500, Jonathan Arnold wrote: I don't think this is true either. I've hooked up a lot of drives in my time, and I've never seen this. And no build it yourself guide that I was able to find on the 'net mentioned anything at all about which nipple to plug into the slave or master drive. It does make a difference with 80 conductor high speed UDMA cables. The motherboard end of an 80 conductor cable is special because one of the positions in the socket connector is disconnected from the cable so that the host can tell which kind of cable is attached. If the cable is plugged in backwards and the middle connector is plugged into a drive, the host thinks the cable is a low speed 40 conductor cable. Another possible problem is that the slave drive cannot correctly pass the results of its power-on-self-test to the master drive. Dan Strick [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
ATA channel 0: Master: ad0 ST380021A/3.19 ATA/ATAPI rev 5 Slave: acd0 CD-RW 24X10X40/Y.IW ATA/ATAPI rev 0 ATA channel 1: Master: ad2 ST380011A/3.06 ATA/ATAPI rev 6 Slave: no device present Here is your problem. On channel 0 You have an UDMA100 disk and an UDMA33 cd-rw. The motherboard IDE controller steps down the speed to the speed of the slowest device. You have to move the cd-rw device to the channel 1. The motherboard will have printed next to the IDE sockets, primary IDE and secondary IDE, which are channel 0 and channel 1. Both HD's and the cd/rw have jumpers next to where the ribbon connects. The jumpers have 3 positions, master, slave, and cable select. If you look closely on the green board you will see MA, SL, and CS to help you identify what jumper is located where. If all three devices are jumpered with CS, then just swap the cd-rw with the other HD. If your channel 0 HD is jumpered as master and the cd/rw is jumpered as slave, them you have to change the cd-rw jumper to master and swap it with the channel 1 HD, then jumper the new HD to slave and plug it in where the cd-rw was on the channel 0 ribbon. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JacobRhoden Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 1:07 AM To: Jarrod; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB) JacobRhoden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just purchased a new 80GB drive, howerver i noticed it is running significantly slower than my current 80gb drive. On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 04:38 pm, Jarrod wrote: Try 'man atacontrol' I typed 'man atacontrol' and it didnt seem to help! (grin). Seriously, i had a look and worked out how to list/display the modes of drives, and i am not sure what commands i would type to help fix the speed? I can now show people this though: ATA channel 0: Master: ad0 ST380021A/3.19 ATA/ATAPI rev 5 Slave: acd0 CD-RW 24X10X40/Y.IW ATA/ATAPI rev 0 ATA channel 1: Master: ad2 ST380011A/3.06 ATA/ATAPI rev 6 Slave: no device present (The cable is the right way around, and the drive is the only drive on the cable, thanks for suggestions though). Jacob RhodenPhone: +61 3 8344 4478 ITS DivisionEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
Are you sure that both IDE controllers on the motherboard are ATA 100 or better? I've seen several motherboards where the primary (first) ATA controller is ATA 100 and the second was ATA 33. The second one was intended for CD-ROM drives and the first for hard drives. By plugging into the first controller, you could rule this out as others have suggested. Some maxtor drives require a jumper for ATA 100. I'm not sure about all seagates. I just put in an 80 gig seagate and it steped down to ATA 66 correctly in my iMac which shipped with a 10 gig. Lucas Holt [EMAIL PROTECTED] FoolishGames.com (Jewel Fan Site) JustJournal.com (Free blogging) Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein (1879-1955) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
Hi, I have just purchased a new 80GB drive, howerver i noticed it is running significantly slower than my current 80gb drive. Dmesg says this: ad0: 76319MB ST380021A [155061/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA100 ad2: 76319MB ST380011A [155061/16/63] at ata1-master UDMA33 Why is one running at udma100 and my new one running at udma33? iosys reports it as 4 times slower! Is there any special tuning or kernel option i need to set? The segate website reports the following details aobut it: Model Number:ST380011A Capacity:80 GB Speed:7200 rpm Seek time:8.5 ms avg Interface:Ultra ATA/100 Jacob RhodenPhone: +61 3 8344 4478 ITS DivisionEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
Try 'man atacontrol' Jarrod [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:21:52 +1100 JacobRhoden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have just purchased a new 80GB drive, howerver i noticed it is running significantly slower than my current 80gb drive. Dmesg says this: ad0: 76319MB ST380021A [155061/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA100 ad2: 76319MB ST380011A [155061/16/63] at ata1-master UDMA33 Why is one running at udma100 and my new one running at udma33? iosys reports it as 4 times slower! Is there any special tuning or kernel option i need to set? The segate website reports the following details aobut it: Model Number:ST380011A Capacity:80 GB Speed:7200 rpm Seek time:8.5 ms avg Interface:Ultra ATA/100 Jacob RhodenPhone: +61 3 8344 4478 ITS DivisionEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
Hi, I have just purchased a new 80GB drive, howerver i noticed it is running significantly slower than my current 80gb drive. Dmesg says this: ad0: 76319MB ST380021A [155061/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA100 ad2: 76319MB ST380011A [155061/16/63] at ata1-master UDMA33 Hi Do you by any chance have a cdrom or dvd drive connected on your secondry IDE? If so, this would explain the drop in speed. Try connecting the 2 80G drives as master and slave on the same IDE. Mark ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
JacobRhoden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just purchased a new 80GB drive, howerver i noticed it is running significantly slower than my current 80gb drive. On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 04:38 pm, Jarrod wrote: Try 'man atacontrol' I typed 'man atacontrol' and it didnt seem to help! (grin). Seriously, i had a look and worked out how to list/display the modes of drives, and i am not sure what commands i would type to help fix the speed? I can now show people this though: ATA channel 0: Master: ad0 ST380021A/3.19 ATA/ATAPI rev 5 Slave: acd0 CD-RW 24X10X40/Y.IW ATA/ATAPI rev 0 ATA channel 1: Master: ad2 ST380011A/3.06 ATA/ATAPI rev 6 Slave: no device present (The cable is the right way around, and the drive is the only drive on the cable, thanks for suggestions though). Jacob RhodenPhone: +61 3 8344 4478 ITS DivisionEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
On Dec 7, 2003, at 10:07 PM, JacobRhoden wrote: I typed 'man atacontrol' and it didnt seem to help! (grin). Seriously, i had a look and worked out how to list/display the modes of drives, and i am not sure what commands i would type to help fix the speed? mode Without the two mode arguments, the current transfer modes of both devices are printed. If the mode arguments are given, the ATA driver is asked to change the transfer modes to those given. The ATA driver will reject modes that are not supported by the hardware. Modes are given like ``PIO3'', ``udma2'', ``udma100'', case does not matter. If one of the devices mode should not be changed, use a nonexisting mode as argument (i.e. ``XXX''), and the mode will remain unchanged. Currently supported modes are: BIOSDMA, PIO0 (alias BIOSPIO), PIO1, PIO2, PIO3, PIO4, WDMA2, UDMA2 (alias UDMA33), UDMA4 (alias UDMA66), UDMA5 (alias UDMA100) and UDMA6 (alias UDMA133). So you can type 'atacontrol mode channel mode where mode is one of the options listed' and change the speed, at some potential risk, as the man page warns. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why would drive run at UDMA33? (Segate 80GB)
As some others said, put both the hard drives on the same channel and see what that does, also to change the speeds it is 'atacontrol mode (number of channel ie 0 or 1) UDMA(#) UDMA(#)' if you have 2 things on the same channel. But switch the cd-rw and the hard drive and put the 2 drives on the same channel and you might not have to mess with setting the speeds. and another good command to check what speeds are on the same channel 'atacontrol mode (number of channel)' of course dont use parenthesis on any of that, and if you already know about what i said oh well, spreading my limited knowledge Jarrod [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:07:29 +1100 JacobRhoden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JacobRhoden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just purchased a new 80GB drive, howerver i noticed it is running significantly slower than my current 80gb drive. On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 04:38 pm, Jarrod wrote: Try 'man atacontrol' I typed 'man atacontrol' and it didnt seem to help! (grin). Seriously, i had a look and worked out how to list/display the modes of drives, and i am not sure what commands i would type to help fix the speed? I can now show people this though: ATA channel 0: Master: ad0 ST380021A/3.19 ATA/ATAPI rev 5 Slave: acd0 CD-RW 24X10X40/Y.IW ATA/ATAPI rev 0 ATA channel 1: Master: ad2 ST380011A/3.06 ATA/ATAPI rev 6 Slave: no device present (The cable is the right way around, and the drive is the only drive on the cable, thanks for suggestions though). Jacob RhodenPhone: +61 3 8344 4478 ITS DivisionEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
