Re: dump -L

2007-08-18 Thread Victor Sudakov
Colleagues,

Right now I am watching a dump:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] dump -b64 -5Lau /home
  DUMP: Connection to big.sibptus.tomsk.ru established.
  DUMP: Date of this level 5 dump: Sat Aug 18 14:02:16 2007
  DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: Sun Aug 12 11:10:56 2007
  DUMP: Dumping snapshot of /dev/ad0s2f (/home) to /dev/nsa0 on host big
  DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files]
  DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories]
  DUMP: estimated 3249348 tape blocks.

at the same moment:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] snapinfo -v /home
/dev/ad0s2f mounted on /home
no snapshots found
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] ll /home/.snap/
total 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]


Is this normal? Does it mean that dump is not really dumping a
snapshot though it says it is?


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Re: dump -L

2007-08-18 Thread Vince

Victor Sudakov wrote:

Colleagues,

Right now I am watching a dump:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] dump -b64 -5Lau /home
  DUMP: Connection to big.sibptus.tomsk.ru established.
  DUMP: Date of this level 5 dump: Sat Aug 18 14:02:16 2007
  DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: Sun Aug 12 11:10:56 2007
  DUMP: Dumping snapshot of /dev/ad0s2f (/home) to /dev/nsa0 on host big
  DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files]
  DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories]
  DUMP: estimated 3249348 tape blocks.

at the same moment:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] snapinfo -v /home
/dev/ad0s2f mounted on /home
no snapshots found
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] ll /home/.snap/
total 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]


Is this normal? Does it mean that dump is not really dumping a
snapshot though it says it is?



man dump (the section regarding -L) says
The snapshot is unlinked as soon as the dump starts, and is thus 
removed when the dump is complete. What this means to you is that the 
snapshot is only visible on the file system for as long as it takes dump 
to start reading from it, dump will have an open filehandle to the 
snapshot so it can be unlinked from the filesystem and as soon as dump 
closed its handle then the snapshot is removed. Similar to when you 
delete a large logfile a program has open and forget to HUP/stop/restart 
the program, the logfile's diskspace isnt released until the the program 
closes its file handle.


Vince
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Re: dump -L

2007-08-18 Thread Victor Sudakov
Vince wrote:
 
 Right now I am watching a dump:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] dump -b64 -5Lau /home
   DUMP: Connection to big.sibptus.tomsk.ru established.
   DUMP: Date of this level 5 dump: Sat Aug 18 14:02:16 2007
   DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: Sun Aug 12 11:10:56 2007
   DUMP: Dumping snapshot of /dev/ad0s2f (/home) to /dev/nsa0 on host big
   DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files]
   DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories]
   DUMP: estimated 3249348 tape blocks.
 
 at the same moment:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] snapinfo -v /home
 /dev/ad0s2f mounted on /home
 no snapshots found
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] ll /home/.snap/
 total 0
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]
 
 
 Is this normal? Does it mean that dump is not really dumping a
 snapshot though it says it is?
 
 
 man dump (the section regarding -L) says
 The snapshot is unlinked as soon as the dump starts, and is thus 

This explains why there is no visible snapshot file in /home/.snap/
However, I thought that snapinfo should be aware even of unlinked
snapshots. Just like mdconfig -l still shows the backingstore file
even if it has been unlinked.


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Re: dump -L

2007-08-07 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 06/08/07, Victor Sudakov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
 problem?
   
I don't know the answer, but I get essentially the
same behaviour.  I have never seen any data loss,
  
   I gave an example below. The file wins.dat was not dumped. It is
   indeed missing from the tape.
  
   If this is not a data loss, what is it then?
  

Not to perpetuate an argument for its own sake,
but I suppose I meant data loss to mean the loss
of files that _should_ exist, as opposed to files that
_could_ exist.  A fine line, but in my /laissez faire/
universe a quite salient one.

As to whether wins.dat should exist is beyond me.
If you believe it should, then that would be data loss
by my metric.  I apologise for any confusion,

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-07 Thread Victor Sudakov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
  problem?

 I don't know the answer, but I get essentially the
 same behaviour.  I have never seen any data loss,
   
I gave an example below. The file wins.dat was not dumped. It is
indeed missing from the tape.
   
If this is not a data loss, what is it then?
   
 
 Not to perpetuate an argument for its own sake,
 but I suppose I meant data loss to mean the loss
 of files that _should_ exist, as opposed to files that
 _could_ exist.  A fine line, but in my /laissez faire/
 universe a quite salient one.
 
 As to whether wins.dat should exist is beyond me.
 If you believe it should, then that would be data loss

If it (or any other file) does exist in the filesystem, it should
exist also in the backup. Otherwise we have a defective backup.


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Re: dump -L

2007-08-07 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 07/08/07, Victor Sudakov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
   problem?
 
  I don't know the answer, but I get essentially the
  same behaviour.  I have never seen any data loss,

 I gave an example below. The file wins.dat was not dumped. It is
 indeed missing from the tape.

 If this is not a data loss, what is it then?

 
  Not to perpetuate an argument for its own sake,
  but I suppose I meant data loss to mean the loss
  of files that _should_ exist, as opposed to files that
  _could_ exist.  A fine line, but in my /laissez faire/
  universe a quite salient one.
 
  As to whether wins.dat should exist is beyond me.
  If you believe it should, then that would be data loss

 If it (or any other file) does exist in the filesystem, it should
 exist also in the backup. Otherwise we have a defective backup.

You are begging the question.

The functional definition of a live filesystem is one
in which you cannot guarantee the state to be
determineable across time.  Snapshots might make
it more likely, being faster, but they still have to work
in time*.  To put it another way: by the time any part
of the system knows the state of any part of the system,
it is wrong.

I would like to point out that I am not saying that
dump does not have a bug, but that this is not
evidence in and of itself for it.


*And no matter what anyone tells you, time is not
infinitely divisible.

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-07 Thread Wojciech Puchar


I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like
foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
expected next file 12345, got 23456


i had it too, sometimes even restore is unable to restore well -1-9 dumps 
:(




I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.

What is it?

Thanks in advance for any input.
I am ready to provide additional info if required to understand the
problem.

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-07 Thread Wojciech Puchar

expected next file 12345, got 23456


I'm seeing this too. It's always exactly one inode per file system.


not one, sometimes even tens.

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-06 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 05/08/07, Victor Sudakov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Victor Sudakov wrote:
 
  I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
  However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like
  foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
  expected next file 12345, got 23456
 
  I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
 
  What is it?

 Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
 problem?

I don't know the answer, but I get essentially the
same behaviour.  I have never seen any data loss,
though.  I just tended to assume it was either harmless
or the world was going to end, neither of which cases
I could seem to rule out definitively.

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-06 Thread Victor Sudakov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
   However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like
   foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
   expected next file 12345, got 23456
  
   I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
  
   What is it?
 
  Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
  problem?
 
 I don't know the answer, but I get essentially the
 same behaviour.  I have never seen any data loss,

I gave an example below. The file wins.dat was not dumped. It is
indeed missing from the tape.

If this is not a data loss, what is it then?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] restore -b64 -rN
./spool/samba.lock/wins.dat: (inode 2829098) not found on tape
expected next file 267, got 4
expected next file 2828988, got 2828987


-- 
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Re: dump -L

2007-08-06 Thread cpghost
On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 02:18:57PM +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote:
I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like
foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
expected next file 12345, got 23456
   
I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
   
What is it?
  
   Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
   problem?
  
  I don't know the answer, but I get essentially the
  same behaviour.  I have never seen any data loss,
 
 I gave an example below. The file wins.dat was not dumped. It is
 indeed missing from the tape.
 
 If this is not a data loss, what is it then?
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] restore -b64 -rN
 ./spool/samba.lock/wins.dat: (inode 2829098) not found on tape
 expected next file 267, got 4
 expected next file 2828988, got 2828987

Uh-oh :-(. I have no idea how the code works, but just a wild guess:
what happens when a file is being created and a snapshot taken at the
same time? Isn't there a tiny window between inode creation and
directory update? Or is file creation an atomic operation w.r.t.
snapshots and dump?

 Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
 sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Regards,
-cpghost.

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-06 Thread Jerry McAllister
On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 09:56:15AM +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote:

 Victor Sudakov wrote:
  
  I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
  However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
  foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
  expected next file 12345, got 23456 
  
  I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
  
  What is it?
 
 Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
 problem?
 
 Here is another example:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] restore -b64 -rN 
 ./spool/samba.lock/wins.dat: (inode 2829098) not found on tape
 expected next file 267, got 4
 expected next file 2828988, got 2828987

Using 'dump -L' doesn't prevent you or something running on the system
from deleting a file after the directory has been created and written.

The first thing dump does is create a list of files (including directories)
to dump.   It creates a list of inodes for the files and then does all
the dumping from that list of inodes.   If a file is then deleted after
that inode list is made, then it will not get written to the dump media.
But, the list will still have the inode for the file.   When restore
looks for files, it searches in inode order and makes a note if an
inode is missing from the media that it expected (because of the list) to 
be there.It is only a true error if that file really should have been
there and wasn't.   The only time I have had that happen was when the
media (tape) couldn't be read properly.   Usually then you also get
other errors.

jerry

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-06 Thread Bill Moran
In response to Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 09:56:15AM +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote:
 
  Victor Sudakov wrote:
   
   I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
   However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
   foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
   expected next file 12345, got 23456 
   
   I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
   
   What is it?
  
  Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
  problem?
  
  Here is another example:
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] restore -b64 -rN 
  ./spool/samba.lock/wins.dat: (inode 2829098) not found on tape
  expected next file 267, got 4
  expected next file 2828988, got 2828987
 
 Using 'dump -L' doesn't prevent you or something running on the system
 from deleting a file after the directory has been created and written.
 
 The first thing dump does is create a list of files (including directories)
 to dump.   It creates a list of inodes for the files and then does all
 the dumping from that list of inodes.   If a file is then deleted after
 that inode list is made, then it will not get written to the dump media.
 But, the list will still have the inode for the file.   When restore
 looks for files, it searches in inode order and makes a note if an
 inode is missing from the media that it expected (because of the list) to 
 be there.It is only a true error if that file really should have been
 there and wasn't.   The only time I have had that happen was when the
 media (tape) couldn't be read properly.   Usually then you also get
 other errors.

Ok, but using -L causes dump to create a filesystem snapshot, which is read-
only, meaning that nobody can delete a file from it during the dump process.

My guess would be that something is causing the snapshot to fail, which
will cause dump to issue a warning and then continue without making a
snapshot.  Can you provide the output of dump while doing the dump?

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-06 Thread Victor Sudakov
Bill Moran wrote:
   Here is another example:
   
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] restore -b64 -rN 
   ./spool/samba.lock/wins.dat: (inode 2829098) not found on tape
   expected next file 267, got 4
   expected next file 2828988, got 2828987

[dd]

 
 My guess would be that something is causing the snapshot to fail, which
 will cause dump to issue a warning and then continue without making a
 snapshot.  

It is not likely.

 Can you provide the output of dump while doing the dump?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] dump -b64 -0La  /var
  DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Mon Aug  6 22:43:07 2007
  DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch
  DUMP: Dumping snapshot of /dev/mirror/gm1s1f (/var) to /dev/nsa0
  DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files]
  DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories]
  DUMP: estimated 21553084 tape blocks.
  DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [directories]
  DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [regular files]



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Re: dump -L

2007-08-06 Thread Victor Sudakov
Jerry McAllister wrote:
 
  Victor Sudakov wrote:
   
   I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
   However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
   foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
   expected next file 12345, got 23456 
   
   I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
   
   What is it?
  
  Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
  problem?
  
  Here is another example:
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] restore -b64 -rN 
  ./spool/samba.lock/wins.dat: (inode 2829098) not found on tape
  expected next file 267, got 4
  expected next file 2828988, got 2828987
 
 Using 'dump -L' doesn't prevent you or something running on the system
 from deleting a file after the directory has been created and written.

Excuse me? 'dump -L' creates a snapshot which is (or should be) a
frozen copy of the filesystem, and then dumps the snapshot.

 
 The first thing dump does is create a list of files (including directories)
 to dump.   It creates a list of inodes for the files and then does all
 the dumping from that list of inodes.   If a file is then deleted after
 that inode list is made, then it will not get written to the dump media.

How can a file be deleted from a snapshot?


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Re: dump -L

2007-08-06 Thread Victor Sudakov
cpghost wrote:
 I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
 However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like
 foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
 expected next file 12345, got 23456

 I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.

 What is it?
   
Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
problem?
   
   I don't know the answer, but I get essentially the
   same behaviour.  I have never seen any data loss,
  
  I gave an example below. The file wins.dat was not dumped. It is
  indeed missing from the tape.
  
  If this is not a data loss, what is it then?
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] restore -b64 -rN
  ./spool/samba.lock/wins.dat: (inode 2829098) not found on tape
  expected next file 267, got 4
  expected next file 2828988, got 2828987
 
 Uh-oh :-(. I have no idea how the code works, but just a wild guess:
 what happens when a file is being created and a snapshot taken at the
 same time? 

I would very much like to know that. Creating a snapshot can take
several minutes on a large modern HDD. Many files can be changed
during those minutes.

 Isn't there a tiny window between inode creation and
 directory update? Or is file creation an atomic operation w.r.t.
 snapshots and dump?

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Re: dump -L

2007-08-05 Thread Victor Sudakov
Victor Sudakov wrote:
 
 I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
 However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
 foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
 expected next file 12345, got 23456 
 
 I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
 
 What is it?

Does nobody know the answer, or am I the only one experiencing the
problem?

Here is another example:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~] restore -b64 -rN 
./spool/samba.lock/wins.dat: (inode 2829098) not found on tape
expected next file 267, got 4
expected next file 2828988, got 2828987



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sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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dump -L

2007-07-24 Thread Victor Sudakov
Colleagues,

I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
expected next file 12345, got 23456 

I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.

What is it?

Thanks in advance for any input.
I am ready to provide additional info if required to understand the
problem.

-- 
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Re: dump -L

2007-07-24 Thread cpghost
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 06:54:01PM +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote:
 Colleagues,
 
 I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
 However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
 foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
 expected next file 12345, got 23456 

I'm seeing this too. It's always exactly one inode per file system.

 I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
 
 What is it?

I don't know. Perhaps it is the inode of the snapshot file
itself?

 Thanks in advance for any input.
 I am ready to provide additional info if required to understand the
 problem.
 
 -- 
 Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
 sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Regards,
-cpghost.

-- 
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Re: dump -L

2007-07-24 Thread Victor Sudakov
cpghost wrote:
  
  I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
  However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
  foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
  expected next file 12345, got 23456 
 
 I'm seeing this too. It's always exactly one inode per file system.

You are probably talking about expected next file 12345, got 23456.
It seems harmless.

But I am more worried about foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape.
Indeed, some files fail to get into the dump.

 
  I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
  
  What is it?
 
 I don't know. Perhaps it is the inode of the snapshot file
 itself?

find -inum does not support this assumtion.

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Re: dump -L

2007-07-24 Thread Lowell Gilbert
Victor Sudakov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 cpghost wrote:
  
  I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
  However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
  foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
  expected next file 12345, got 23456 
 
 I'm seeing this too. It's always exactly one inode per file system.

 You are probably talking about expected next file 12345, got 23456.
 It seems harmless.

 But I am more worried about foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape.
 Indeed, some files fail to get into the dump.

Are the files active at the time of the dump?

 
  I thought this should _never_ happen when dumping a snapshot.
  
  What is it?
 
 I don't know. Perhaps it is the inode of the snapshot file
 itself?

 find -inum does not support this assumtion.

Do you mean that you can't find the file at all in the snapshot?
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Re: dump -L

2007-07-24 Thread Victor Sudakov
Lowell Gilbert wrote:
   
   I always use dump -L to dump a live filesystem.
   However, when I restore the dump, I sometimes get messages like 
   foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape or
   expected next file 12345, got 23456 
  
  I'm seeing this too. It's always exactly one inode per file system.
 
  You are probably talking about expected next file 12345, got 23456.
  It seems harmless.
 
  But I am more worried about foo.txt (inode 12345) not found on tape.
  Indeed, some files fail to get into the dump.
 
 Are the files active at the time of the dump?

Yes, they are.
These are files edited by Samba users, mrtg files etc.

-- 
Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
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Re: dump -L

2007-07-24 Thread Victor Sudakov
Lowell Gilbert wrote:
   What is it?
  
  I don't know. Perhaps it is the inode of the snapshot file
  itself?
 
  find -inum does not support this assumtion.
 
 Do you mean that you can't find the file at all in the snapshot?

Here is an example for you:


$ restore -rNf test.dmp
./var/db/entropy/saved-entropy.1: (inode 1887715) not found on tape
expected next file 259101, got 11
$ restore -tvf test.dmp | grep 259101
Level 0 dump of / on test.sibptus.tomsk.ru:/dev/ad0s1a
Label: none
leaf259101  ./usr/share/tmac/m.tmac
$ restore -tvf test.dmp | grep  11
Level 0 dump of / on test.sibptus.tomsk.ru:/dev/ad0s1a
Label: none
dir1130496  ./media
$

This means that 

1. /var/db/entropy/saved-entropy.1 was not dumped for some reason, though
   -L was given during the dump.
2. File with inode number 11 is not in the dump.

-- 
Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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dump -L not working as expected?

2005-10-10 Thread Victor Sudakov
Colleagues,

I dump an active filesystem on a FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p7 with the -L
option. dump says:

Dumping snapshot of /dev/mirror/gm1s1h (/home) to ...

However when I later restore -r the filesystem, I keep getting messages
like 

./www/data/ASN/bay_3.log: (inode 805993) not found on tape
expected next file 23553, got 6
expected next file 805964, got 805963
expected next file 806010, got 806009

Why is that? 

I am used to seeing such messages on FreeBSD 4.x and earlier systems,
but I thought I would never see them again when dumping a snapshot.

Thanks in advance for any input.

-- 
Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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