Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-22 Thread c0re
2010/11/15 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 00:41:32 +1030
 Indexer inde...@internode.on.net articulated:

 It breaks alot, and causes you to need to rebuild some parts of the
 base system. The most notable, is SSHD, which whenever I install the
 openssl from ports, will not work unless i rebuild SSHD or, remove
 the ports version.

 There were (maybe still are) a few ports that don't work correctly with
 openssl via ports; however, I have filed PRs on them and for the most
 part they have been fixed. However, I would not let that fact deter
 you from using a newer, safer version of the application.

 When building a new system, I start with the newer version from the
 start. If updating later, I have found that first installing the new
 openssl version via ports, and then using portmanager with the -p
 option rebuilds virtually any port still dependent on the deprecated
 version. In any case, I believe it is a prerequisite to have the
 previously noted notation in the /etc/make.conf file prior to building
 any port(s) or kernel/world.

 In jedem Falle jedoch zu seinem eigenen.

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Filled one pr.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=152483
Hope this would be resolved someday :)
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-20 Thread RW
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:08:35 -0500
Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote:

 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net
 wrote:
  On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:08:26 -0600
  Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com articulated:
 
  While I agree with your point in this context, the statement The
  number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite
  one. is false.
 
  http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html
 
  It was later discovered that the software used to certify the kernel
  100% bug-free was not itself bug-free thereby nullifying results.
 
 The paper  Diverse Double-Compiling by David A Wheeler is relevant
 although not strictly the same topic. It could be used to avoid this
 type of issue.

Even if it works it's only proving that at some level of abstraction
the implementation matches a formal specification, there's still scope
for higher and lower level bugs. 

But just because something is unknown doesn't mean it's infinite.


 
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-20 Thread Chris Rees
On 19 November 2010 22:22, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote:
 On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:53:11 -0600
 Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com articulated:

 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net
 wrote:

  On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:08:26 -0600
  Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com articulated:
 
   While I agree with your point in this context, the statement The
   number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite
   one. is false.
  
  http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html
 
  It was later discovered that the software used to certify the kernel
  100% bug-free was not itself bug-free thereby nullifying results.
 
 Link or another Jerry Fact

 I would have thought that was obvious. Although, it does remind me of
 the old myth that the bumblebee should not be able to fly
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumblebee.

 There's a sucker born every minute is a phrase often credited to P.
 T. Barnum, and quite often true.

No, it's not 'obvious', just like many other things.

People believed Aristotle's assurances about the rate of things
falling for nearly 2000 years until Galileo and Newton pointed out
'obvious' flaws in his method.

Again, link?

Chris
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-20 Thread Jerry
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:56:05 +
Chris Rees utis...@gmail.com articulated:

While I agree with your point in this context, the statement
The number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an
infinite one. is false.
   
   http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html
 
 People believed Aristotle's assurances about the rate of things
 falling for nearly 2000 years until Galileo and Newton pointed out
 'obvious' flaws in his method.

Which is precisely my point in regards to the link shown above.

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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-20 Thread Chris Rees
On 20 November 2010 17:34, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote:
 On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:56:05 +
 Chris Rees utis...@gmail.com articulated:

While I agree with your point in this context, the statement
The number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an
infinite one. is false.
   
   http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html

 People believed Aristotle's assurances about the rate of things
 falling for nearly 2000 years until Galileo and Newton pointed out
 'obvious' flaws in his method.

 Which is precisely my point in regards to the link shown above.


Er, no.

YOU have the burden of proof in your assertion, 'obvious' is not good
enough. The link above refers to a study; if you think there's been a
bug then show us.

Chris
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-19 Thread Robert Bonomi
 From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Mon Nov 15 09:38:53 2010
 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:40:27 +0300
 From: c0re nr1c...@gmail.com
 To: FreeBSD freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
 Subject: Re: openssl version - how to verify

 2010/11/15 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net:
 There are still too many broken ports with openssl from ports, I do
 not like debug it and really like to use base openssl, almost no
 difference.
 But I just want to have some proves that base system openssl has
 security patches because 7.3-RELEASE base openssl is 0.9.8e, but
 0.9.8e has got security vulnerabilities. But how can I be sure that
 freebsd base system with 0.9.8e version does not have any
 vulnerabilities?

_authoritative_ answer: You _cannot_.

Statement rationale:
   The number of discovered bugs in any system is a finite number.
The number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite one.
By definition.

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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-19 Thread Adam Vande More
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Robert Bonomi bon...@mail.r-bonomi.comwrote:

 _authoritative_ answer: You _cannot_.

 Statement rationale:
   The number of discovered bugs in any system is a finite number.
The number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite
 one.
By definition.


While I agree with your point in this context, the statement The number of
_UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite one. is false.

http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-19 Thread Jerry
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:08:26 -0600
Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com articulated:

 While I agree with your point in this context, the statement The
 number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite
 one. is false.
 
 http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html

It was later discovered that the software used to certify the kernel
100% bug-free was not itself bug-free thereby nullifying results.

-- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-19 Thread Adam Vande More
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote:

 On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:08:26 -0600
 Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com articulated:

  While I agree with your point in this context, the statement The
  number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite
  one. is false.
 
 
 http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html

 It was later discovered that the software used to certify the kernel
 100% bug-free was not itself bug-free thereby nullifying results.


Link or another Jerry Fact

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-19 Thread Jerry
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:53:11 -0600
Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com articulated:

 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net
 wrote:
 
  On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:08:26 -0600
  Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com articulated:
 
   While I agree with your point in this context, the statement The
   number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite
   one. is false.
  
  http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html
 
  It was later discovered that the software used to certify the kernel
  100% bug-free was not itself bug-free thereby nullifying results.
 
 Link or another Jerry Fact

I would have thought that was obvious. Although, it does remind me of
the old myth that the bumblebee should not be able to fly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumblebee.

There's a sucker born every minute is a phrase often credited to P.
T. Barnum, and quite often true. 

-- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-19 Thread Eitan Adler
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote:
 On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:08:26 -0600
 Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com articulated:

 While I agree with your point in this context, the statement The
 number of _UNDISCOVERED_ bugs, on the other hand, is an infinite
 one. is false.

 http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/pad/articles/2009/sep/microkernel_breakthrough.html

 It was later discovered that the software used to certify the kernel
 100% bug-free was not itself bug-free thereby nullifying results.

The paper  Diverse Double-Compiling by David A Wheeler is relevant
although not strictly the same topic. It could be used to avoid this
type of issue.

-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-17 Thread c0re
2010/11/16 Dennis Glatting d...@penx.com:
 On Tue, 2010-11-16 at 10:28 +0300, c0re wrote:
 Jerry, I'm not about that :) base openssl are OK. But I need proves
 that it has got no security problems - it's external IT auditors
 request.
 And I'm interested how I can know what patchlevel there on base
 openssl version and prove them (auditors) that freebsd base openssl
 are not vulnerable.


 Most operating systems have a variant of OpenSSL they patch from the
 security bug set without bumping the OpenSSL version identifier (they
 usually tack on an OS-specific identifier but the OpenSSL identifier
 becomes meaningless). For example Debian is a patched g,which you
 would conclude as old (in many respects it is old) and therefore
 security hole riddled.

 Debian 5.0.6:
        Tasha:# openssl version
        OpenSSL 0.9.8g 19 Oct 2007

 FreeBSD 8.1:
        btw openssl version
        OpenSSL 0.9.8n 24 Mar 2010

 That /does not/ mean those versions of OpenSSL have security holes.

 The fallacy with auditors is they look at version identifies to make
 conclusions. This is in error. You need to figure out what they are
 looking for. Do they have a specific issue? Bug? Test suite they want
 run?

 You /could/ install the most recent version of OpenSSL but there is no
 guarantee it will replace the running version and it /could/ break
 applications, if only introducing holes that previously didn't exist
 (data structure sizing, library binding, function argument sets, etc.)




 2010/11/15 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net:
  On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:40:27 +0300
  c0re nr1c...@gmail.com articulated:
 
  There are still too many broken ports with openssl from ports, I do
  not like debug it and really like to use base openssl, almost no
  difference.
 
  Might I suggest that if you are aware of ports that don't work
  correctly with the port's version of openssl that you file a PR against
  it. I have done so and succeeded in getting several patches issued to
  correct the problem. This problem will not go away by itself.
 
  --
  Jerry
  freebsd.u...@seibercom.net
 
  Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
  Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
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I understood you.
They just look at openssl version and that's all.
I just install openssl from ports, hide /usr/bin/openssl temporary,
they get all they needs (there is openssl in /usr/local/bin/) and then
I deinstall openssl from ports and restore /usr/bin/openssl.
That's absurdity, but that's auditors... :)

Thanks all. It's hard to prove to auditors that base openssl are OK.
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-16 Thread Adam Vande More
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:28 AM, c0re nr1c...@gmail.com wrote:

 Jerry, I'm not about that :) base openssl are OK. But I need proves
 that it has got no security problems - it's external IT auditors
 request.
 And I'm interested how I can know what patchlevel there on base
 openssl version and prove them (auditors) that freebsd base openssl
 are not vulnerable.


Please don't top-post, thanks.

http://security.freebsd.org/advisories/

The files say which version it's corrected in.

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-16 Thread c0re
2010/11/16 Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com:
 On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:28 AM, c0re nr1c...@gmail.com wrote:

 Jerry, I'm not about that :) base openssl are OK. But I need proves
 that it has got no security problems - it's external IT auditors
 request.
 And I'm interested how I can know what patchlevel there on base
 openssl version and prove them (auditors) that freebsd base openssl
 are not vulnerable.

 Please don't top-post, thanks.

Sorry. Wont will in future. But why?

 http://security.freebsd.org/advisories/

 The files say which version it's corrected in.

 --
 Adam Vande More


Thanks, it's better then nothing :)
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-16 Thread Christer Solskogen
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:49 AM, c0re nr1c...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/11/16 Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com:
 Please don't top-post, thanks.

 Sorry. Wont will in future. But why?



Because it messes up the flow of reading.
I prefer to bottom-post.
 How come?
 What do you do instead?
  No.
   Do you like top-posting?



-- 
chs,
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openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-15 Thread c0re
Hey all!

If I look at base openssl in 7.3-RELEASE-p3

sys# openssl version -a
OpenSSL 0.9.8e 23 Feb 2007
built on: Mon Sep 27 11:54:36 MSD 2010
platform: FreeBSD-i386
options:  bn(64,32) md2(int) rc4(idx,int) des(ptr,risc1,16,long) blowfish(idx)
compiler: cc
OPENSSLDIR: /etc/ssl


but at www.openssl.org I see that it's not recent version

01-Jun-2010:   OpenSSL 0.9.8o is now available, including important
bug and security fixes

I know that freebsd security team make patches for base openssl, but
how can I know what patchlevel of openssl in base version?

Like -p5 in OpenSSL 0.9.8e-p5 23 Feb 2007.
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-15 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 16:17:10 +0300
c0re nr1c...@gmail.com articulated:

 If I look at base openssl in 7.3-RELEASE-p3
 
 sys# openssl version -a
 OpenSSL 0.9.8e 23 Feb 2007
 built on: Mon Sep 27 11:54:36 MSD 2010
 platform: FreeBSD-i386
 options:  bn(64,32) md2(int) rc4(idx,int) des(ptr,risc1,16,long)
 blowfish(idx) compiler: cc
 OPENSSLDIR: /etc/ssl
 
 but at www.openssl.org I see that it's not recent version
 
 01-Jun-2010: OpenSSL 0.9.8o is now available, including
 important bug and security fixes
 
 I know that freebsd security team make patches for base openssl, but
 how can I know what patchlevel of openssl in base version?
 
 Like -p5 in OpenSSL 0.9.8e-p5 23 Feb 2007.

Why not just install the ports version:

openssl version -a 
OpenSSL 1.0.0a 1 Jun 2010
built on: Sun Jun  6 12:19:12 EDT 2010
platform: BSD-x86_64
options:  bn(64,64) rc4(8x,int) des(idx,cisc,16,int) idea(int) blowfish(idx) 
compiler: cc -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DZLIB_SHARED -DZLIB -DOPENSSL_THREADS 
-D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -DL_ENDIAN -DTERMIOS -O3 
-DMD32_REG_T=int -Wall -O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 -fno-strict-aliasing 
-DOPENSSL_IA32_SSE2 -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_MONT -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM -DSHA512_ASM 
-DMD5_ASM -DAES_ASM -DWHIRLPOOL_ASM
OPENSSLDIR: /usr/local/openssl

You would need to add this to the /etc/make.conf file first I believe:

WITH_OPENSSL_PORT=yes

-- 
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-15 Thread Indexer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On 16/11/2010, at 00:38, Jerry wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 16:17:10 +0300
 c0re nr1c...@gmail.com articulated:
 
 If I look at base openssl in 7.3-RELEASE-p3
 
 sys# openssl version -a
 OpenSSL 0.9.8e 23 Feb 2007
 built on: Mon Sep 27 11:54:36 MSD 2010
 platform: FreeBSD-i386
 options:  bn(64,32) md2(int) rc4(idx,int) des(ptr,risc1,16,long)
 blowfish(idx) compiler: cc
 OPENSSLDIR: /etc/ssl
 
 but at www.openssl.org I see that it's not recent version
 
 01-Jun-2010:OpenSSL 0.9.8o is now available, including
 important bug and security fixes
 
 I know that freebsd security team make patches for base openssl, but
 how can I know what patchlevel of openssl in base version?
 
 Like -p5 in OpenSSL 0.9.8e-p5 23 Feb 2007.
 
 Why not just install the ports version:

It breaks alot, and causes you to need to rebuild some parts of the base 
system. The most notable, is SSHD, which whenever I install the openssl from 
ports, will not work unless i rebuild SSHD or, remove the ports version.

 
 openssl version -a 
 OpenSSL 1.0.0a 1 Jun 2010
 built on: Sun Jun  6 12:19:12 EDT 2010
 platform: BSD-x86_64
 options:  bn(64,64) rc4(8x,int) des(idx,cisc,16,int) idea(int) blowfish(idx) 
 compiler: cc -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DZLIB_SHARED -DZLIB -DOPENSSL_THREADS 
 -D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -DL_ENDIAN -DTERMIOS -O3 
 -DMD32_REG_T=int -Wall -O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 -fno-strict-aliasing 
 -DOPENSSL_IA32_SSE2 -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_MONT -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM 
 -DSHA512_ASM -DMD5_ASM -DAES_ASM -DWHIRLPOOL_ASM
 OPENSSLDIR: /usr/local/openssl
 
 You would need to add this to the /etc/make.conf file first I believe:
 
   WITH_OPENSSL_PORT=yes
 
 -- 
 Jerry ✌
 freebsd.u...@seibercom.net
 
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-15 Thread Jerry
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 00:41:32 +1030
Indexer inde...@internode.on.net articulated:

 It breaks alot, and causes you to need to rebuild some parts of the
 base system. The most notable, is SSHD, which whenever I install the
 openssl from ports, will not work unless i rebuild SSHD or, remove
 the ports version.

There were (maybe still are) a few ports that don't work correctly with
openssl via ports; however, I have filed PRs on them and for the most
part they have been fixed. However, I would not let that fact deter
you from using a newer, safer version of the application.

When building a new system, I start with the newer version from the
start. If updating later, I have found that first installing the new
openssl version via ports, and then using portmanager with the -p
option rebuilds virtually any port still dependent on the deprecated
version. In any case, I believe it is a prerequisite to have the
previously noted notation in the /etc/make.conf file prior to building
any port(s) or kernel/world.

In jedem Falle jedoch zu seinem eigenen.

- -- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-15 Thread c0re
2010/11/15 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net:
 On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 16:17:10 +0300
 c0re nr1c...@gmail.com articulated:

 If I look at base openssl in 7.3-RELEASE-p3

 sys# openssl version -a
 OpenSSL 0.9.8e 23 Feb 2007
 built on: Mon Sep 27 11:54:36 MSD 2010
 platform: FreeBSD-i386
 options:  bn(64,32) md2(int) rc4(idx,int) des(ptr,risc1,16,long)
 blowfish(idx) compiler: cc
 OPENSSLDIR: /etc/ssl

 but at www.openssl.org I see that it's not recent version

 01-Jun-2010:     OpenSSL 0.9.8o is now available, including
 important bug and security fixes

 I know that freebsd security team make patches for base openssl, but
 how can I know what patchlevel of openssl in base version?

 Like -p5 in OpenSSL 0.9.8e-p5 23 Feb 2007.

 Why not just install the ports version:

 openssl version -a
 OpenSSL 1.0.0a 1 Jun 2010
 built on: Sun Jun  6 12:19:12 EDT 2010
 platform: BSD-x86_64
 options:  bn(64,64) rc4(8x,int) des(idx,cisc,16,int) idea(int) blowfish(idx)
 compiler: cc -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DZLIB_SHARED -DZLIB -DOPENSSL_THREADS 
 -D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -DL_ENDIAN -DTERMIOS -O3 
 -DMD32_REG_T=int -Wall -O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 -fno-strict-aliasing 
 -DOPENSSL_IA32_SSE2 -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_MONT -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM 
 -DSHA512_ASM -DMD5_ASM -DAES_ASM -DWHIRLPOOL_ASM
 OPENSSLDIR: /usr/local/openssl

 You would need to add this to the /etc/make.conf file first I believe:

        WITH_OPENSSL_PORT=yes


There are still too many broken ports with openssl from ports, I do
not like debug it and really like to use base openssl, almost no
difference.
But I just want to have some proves that base system openssl has
security patches because 7.3-RELEASE base openssl is 0.9.8e, but
0.9.8e has got security vulnerabilities. But how can I be sure that
freebsd base system with 0.9.8e version does not have any
vulnerabilities?
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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-15 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:40:27 +0300
c0re nr1c...@gmail.com articulated:

 There are still too many broken ports with openssl from ports, I do
 not like debug it and really like to use base openssl, almost no
 difference.

Might I suggest that if you are aware of ports that don't work
correctly with the port's version of openssl that you file a PR against
it. I have done so and succeeded in getting several patches issued to
correct the problem. This problem will not go away by itself.

-- 
Jerry ✌
freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

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Re: openssl version - how to verify

2010-11-15 Thread c0re
Jerry, I'm not about that :) base openssl are OK. But I need proves
that it has got no security problems - it's external IT auditors
request.
And I'm interested how I can know what patchlevel there on base
openssl version and prove them (auditors) that freebsd base openssl
are not vulnerable.

2010/11/15 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net:
 On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:40:27 +0300
 c0re nr1c...@gmail.com articulated:

 There are still too many broken ports with openssl from ports, I do
 not like debug it and really like to use base openssl, almost no
 difference.

 Might I suggest that if you are aware of ports that don't work
 correctly with the port's version of openssl that you file a PR against
 it. I have done so and succeeded in getting several patches issued to
 correct the problem. This problem will not go away by itself.

 --
 Jerry ✌
 freebsd.u...@seibercom.net

 Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
 Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.
 __

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